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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 41

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
This is partially my fault- finishing SOTDS earlier I think would really have increased enthusiasm and jump-started the project.

If it's of any help, I can go back over all the notes and discussions I've had and sort of "spot" the movie on my own and chart all ideas that I have for each scene. I need to revisit the script and see some of the notes scoring wise, but I'll probably start on my own and we can work from there. Just to keep all of the ducks in a row on my end.

That'd be great. I personally am confused about what's happening with Ep. I plotwise- there was some discussion of killing off Nute in Ep. I, which would cause a major continuity error in SOTDS (which you'll understand after watching).

I don't know- I can kind of understand why not much work has taken place yet- maybe you want to make sure that SOTDS is not an amateurish piece of garbage before putting in all kinds of time to complete the trilogy.

And you will all find out in April (May at the absolute latest)....

From the SOTDS:

really the bottom line: CC is in charge of Starkiller Ranch, and we need to know where he stands on this.

This is true- however, do not underestimate the power of MTHaslett Storywise, MTH was a HUGE influence during the cutting, and when making Ep. I, I would value his opinion very highly. He's busy lately and doesn't post much publicly, but he's still around.


Now Trooperman, if you don't stop downing yourself on the time and everything I'm gonna get a ruler and rap your knuckles! I'm sure it'll be great. As InfoDroid said, if we start major work before we've seen SOTDS, we're really flying blind, so that's why there's waiting there. And thus, I will be putting together all of my notes on the music and everything and work that out, so we've got something to work on there, as opposed to scrambling to put everything together in the middle of it all. CC and I have already done some discussion, and so I've got some ideas that I'll look back over, and I'll outline it all. While I'm at it I'll try to find the major plot stuff in the script--in fact, I think there was a rough outline some pages back. I'll look into everything.

Yeah, MTH is a huge force. It seems to be that the best course of action is to get as much done as possible that doesn't require SOTDS, for instance the music outline. Then when SOTDS is finished, we can watch it, and CC and MTH particularly, along with whoever else is going to be big on the story decisions, etc., can work out the direction of the movie.

A couple things that you mentioned in the SOTDS thread is the Maul=Grievous issue and where Sidious will come in. It seems like those would be pretty major things. How are you going to handle that, Trooperman? Because it seemed like there was talk that there should be some kind of scene with Dooku about Grievous in SOTDS to show what's going on. I suppose that could be resolved, at worst case scenario, with an extended "Maul=Grievous cut" later on, with the scene inserted...maybe, I don't know. Just throwing ideas out. Where were we at on that point, guys?



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A couple things that you mentioned in the SOTDS thread is the Maul=Grievous issue and where Sidious will come in. It seems like those would be pretty major things. How are you going to handle that, Trooperman?

I left that issue ambiguous- there is no Grievous scene in SOTDS, mainly because it would require SPFX beyond my abilities and because I don't know how Ep. I and III are being handled yet.

While I'm at it I'll try to find the major plot stuff in the script--in fact, I think there was a rough outline some pages back. I'll look into everything.

There is a script by CC on Erik's Starkiller webpage; ironically I have not yet read it because I haven't been given the password

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Trooperman, you have a PM.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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The one thing I would love to see in the Ranch edit is Sidious not showing up until episdoe 3 when palpatine reveals himself as sidious. That way throughout the whole PT you don't really know who is in charge of the sith and who is manipulating everything. Then when Palpatine reveals himself as the dark lord of the sith (sidious) it is a slap in the face and you understand he is controling everything. And even then you could cut it so that you don't know that this sidious is also the emperor from OT until he fried by his own lightning and reveals him as his true form. Hope that made sense.


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Originally posted by: Trooperman
A couple things that you mentioned in the SOTDS thread is the Maul=Grievous issue and where Sidious will come in. It seems like those would be pretty major things. How are you going to handle that, Trooperman?

I left that issue ambiguous- there is no Grievous scene in SOTDS, mainly because it would require SPFX beyond my abilities and because I don't know how Ep. I and III are being handled yet.

While I'm at it I'll try to find the major plot stuff in the script--in fact, I think there was a rough outline some pages back. I'll look into everything.

There is a script by CC on Erik's Starkiller webpage; ironically I have not yet read it because I haven't been given the password


I see. Where were we at as far as the concensus on Grievous=Maul? It seems like everybody wanted to do it--back when InfoDroid was in charge, there was already talk of using Grievous's theme for Maul's arrival on Tatooine and in the Duel in the Desert. Was it just a matter of feasability? I think that would be a top-priority thing for you and CC, MTH, and whoever, to hash out, because it affects the other two movies--or could, depending on how it's handled. Depending on the results of those discussions, then if you wanted to, you could insert a scene later maybe? I dunno. It's a tricky point.

As far as the script goes: I didn't even realize that thing was there until today! I had seen the previous incarnations of the script on the site. I would imagine that the last one is all the fragments together, but then what's the point of the password? Maybe there is something new there. I'll check with CC.
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I originally posted this in the SOTDS thread, but, as Sluggo pointed out, it primarily belongs here. I posted it there initially because of concerns about dubbing and by request. Here's a thought for ROTS to improve the duel:

Basically I'm thinking in terms of, instead of changing the "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" line (to something like "Padme once thought..."), we could make the duel fit with the line. Obi-Wan should be on the defensive the whole time, reaching out to Anakin. He's torn throughout the whole duel. Remove any indication that Obi-Wan has made up his mind as to what he will do. Think "The Searchers," when you aren't sure what John Wayne will do when he finally gets to Debbie. That's kind of what it would be like. As it is, the more I see it, the more sure of himself he seems, and then when Obi-Wan says "Don't try it," it seems rather schizophrenic. So keep out any decisiveness. It's not until he leaves the cliff that he finally makes his choice.

It might be a bit of a special effects challenge, but for starters, cut out the "Only a Sith deals an absolutes. I will do what I must." shot, including Obi-Wan igniting his saber. I don't have any details on dialogue, but make Anakin say something instead of "You will try." Then, in the shot where Anakin jumps, erase Obi-Wan's saber, and if possible (adywan...?), make it so he isn't in a fighting stance. So, Anakin's starting the fight here.

Throughout the duel, make Obi-Wan more defensive: for instance, cut the shot where Obi-Wan nearly stabs Anakin on the table.

Now, when they get across and the lava starts exploding, there are some shots where Obi-Wan and Anakin's faces can't be seen. If we can find a good Ewan McGregor impersonator, and Trooperman's dubbing Anakin, then I'll be really excited. Have Obi-Wan reaching out to Anakin, perhaps all the way through the swinging part.

Then, when we get to the irrelevant dialogue ("I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over!" "Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!" "From my point of view the Jedi are evil!" "Then you are lost!" Ummm...what just happened here?) I'm thinking change it some, to something along the lines of this:

ANAKIN
I should have known the Dark Side had the true power!

OBI-WAN
Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!

ANAKIN
The Jedi are evil!

I'm not sure what to go with next. Obi-Wan's saying "You are lost!" seems pretty decisive, but I don't know what to make him say instead.

Then when Obi-Wan jumps off to the cliff, it goes something like this:

OBI-WAN
It's over, Anakin!

CUT TO: Anakin

OBI-WAN (cont., pleading emphatically)
Come with me, please!

Anakin is silent, and Obi-Wan begins to see what he's planning.

OBI-WAN
Don't try it.

This way, it's a much smoother progression. In the first line, he's trying to cut off the fighting. In the second, he's pouring everything he's got into this plea. And then he sees what's happening, and he's crestfallen, slowly realizing what he would do, and begs once, more, quietly, for him not to jump. But he does. Anakin's silence (a la ADigitalMan's cut) is now much deeper and heavier. With a lot of these changes, so much of the body language and silence will be much more meaningful.

And then I'm thinking it might be good to cut Obi-Wan's bawling Anakin out, but I'm not sure. It could also come across as Obi-Wan finally venting from all of the strain. Another possibility is to change the dialogue, perhaps omitting the frames where he is seen talking, but I'm not sure where to go with it, exactly.

So, the dialogue is pretty hazy for me. I'd have to think about it, and any of the more experienced dialogue writers around here can take a stab at it. Some altering of the conversation between Anakin and Obi-Wan before the duel might be in order. It always struck me as odd that that whole time, not once did Obi-Wan even try to ask Anakin what was happening, why he was doing what he was doing. If we can even approach fixing that, it would be a big help, but just for him to reach out to Anakin would be much more satisfying. If anyone can do Obi-Wan's voice, this could be really awesome, and be a big help in improving ROTS.
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Regarding what Weezer posted in the Shroud of the Darkside thread:

Originally posted by: Weezer12
How about after Anakin would say, "The Jedi are evil," Obi-Wan says, "If you believe that, then you are lost!"


Anakin could say "the jedi are evil" and Obi-Wan replies "I know you don't believe that". This shows that Obi-Wan still has hope that Anakin is not fully consumed by the dark side and that there is still a chance to save him.


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Yes! That would be great! Thanks! It would be tricky trying to get it to sync up, though. In fact, the line about the Dark Side having true power would be tough to sync up, now that I've looked at it again. But if nothing else, we can use a shot of Anakin. I hate to not have their faces in shot for the lines, but it may be the only way in some spots. Trooperman has experience with changing lines but matching the movements, now, so I'm curious about his input. That's a great suggestion, though. I was really stuck there. And then it makes sense. Anakin starts fighting again after that line--almost like he's trying to convince Obi-Wan and himself that he does believe it. Man, I'm excited about this!


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Some excellent Ep. III ideas from Musicman.


ANAKIN
I should have known the Dark Side had the true power!

OBI-WAN
Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!

ANAKIN
The Jedi are evil!

I really love this exchange. For this and other dialogue suggestions, I'd need to go back and look at Ep. III to find out if and how it would work (and of course we'd need someone that sounded like Ewan McGregor. Better yet- send a copy of SOTDS to Ewan McGregor and actually get HIM to do it! Ha ha. This probably isn't possible, but I think that this exchange would be even better at the beginning of the duel, rather than all the "Only Sith deal in absolutes" and "I will do what I must".

Much more dramatic is to have Anakin choke Padme, Obi-Wan come down from the ship, and then have the exchange.


ANAKIN
I should have known the Dark Side had the true power!

OBI-WAN
Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!

ANAKIN
The JEDI are evil! (read James Earl Jones style)


Enter dramatic, exciting music (not "Battle of the Heroes", which I felt was rather weak personally) as they throw off their cloaks and begin to fight.

Somehow, there's got to be a way to remove the lava surfing section. And Anakin/Darth does not say things like, "My point of view" during a life or death duel on a lava planet.

It always struck me as odd that that whole time, not once did Obi-Wan even try to ask Anakin what was happening, why he was doing what he was doing.

That's exactly right- that's the basic problem. No emotion whatsoever until Anakin is smoldering on the ground. Someone brought this up in General Discussion a long time ago, and I think it's very true- the duel should have felt like Luke and Han Solo turning against each other. That would've HURT.

-----------

I guess the other question that has to be asked is- why did Anakin go to the Dark Side. Was it all for love, to save Padme based on a 15-second dream? This is pretty stupid because Padme dies at the end of the film, and he still sticks around. I know the line about the Dark Side "dominating" one's destiny once they start down the path, but honestly, it's very weak. I think the better explanation is that he's troubled by the loss of his mother, Obi-Wan is restricting him to the extreme (remember in SOTDS he made Anakin take a vow of celibacy, which he breaks), and here's Palpatine with the Dark Side. Palpatine is not only friendly towards him, he teaches him to be powerful. Using the Dark Side is more fun. It's "quicker and easier", as Yoda said in ESB.

The main problem would be showing that this is the case with the footage given.

And then there's the whole pointless section with General Grievous and Obi-Wan. How to make that all work? It's an interesting challenge.

What a wasted opportunity...

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I just noticed this thread and some of the ideas going around.
Somebody mentioned having Grevious turn out to be Darth Maul. If it could be pulled off, I would say go for it. It would give a purpose to an otherwise pointless character. Currently Grevious is little more than something to sell action figures and a 'cool looking' villian, that does little than eat up time in the film and give Obi-Wan a reason to be away from the Jedi Temple and Anakin for the dark side turn. Not sure how one could pull it off, but it would be great to see if possible.

As for why did Anakin stick around with the dark side after Padme died I never had a problem with the way the films handled that, there are several reason I can think of. First off, the dark side isn't so easy to walk away from. Yes, Anakin by going dark ended up destroying the reason he went dark in the first place, but I don't think you can just quit being a sith that easily. Second off, with everyone else now either dead or in hiding, Palpatine is the only friend that Vader has left. He basically doesn't have anywere else to go now but to stick around Palpatine.
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I heard this on the ROTS commentary I think. Lucas wanted it seem like after Anikan had killed Mace that he thought the Jedi wouldn't except his decision to sacrifice a Jedi to honor the laws and present Palpatine to the senate so he followed the Emperor's orders and destroyed the Jedi so that he wouldn't have to worry about them trying to kill him. This would explain why he didn't just cut the emperor down after he killed Mace, because he knew even though he did follow the law and save the emperor to be sentenced in court he had screwed up and had nowhere else to go. It is tragic when you think about it this way.


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Discussion like this makes me wish that Georgie-boy planned out the whole prequel trilogy at least a basic outline for each episode, before starting to make them.

Anyway, it's up to the fans to salvage the films isn't it? That's what this thread is all about!

So, the dialogue exchange ideas sound great and once perfected and attempted should create more of an emotional impact. That's good.

The Grievous=Maul idea made me laugh when I first read it so long ago. However, recently I've been thinking about it and it does make sense (if we can pull it off). Obi-Wan would want to follow him to Utapau because he killed his master. Then I realized I wasn't sure about the specifics of this plan. Would the Jedi know that Grievous is Maul? Or would that be revealed later on? Then of course the major issue is Grievous' death where he gets shot by a blaster and spouts fire from his face. While very odd it also doesn't seem like much of a climax for a character that Obi-Wan should feel hatred for (even though he's not supposed to hate, being a Jedi and all).

I wish it were possible to have some other death scene for Grievous. After fighting for a while Obi-Wan could pry open his chestplate (as he does in the movie? It's been a while since I watched Episode III). Then as Grievous furiously tries to slice and dice him, Obi-Wan could somehow find himself in a vantage point from which he could stab Grievous in the heart. But again.... beyond the realms of possibility for us, isn't it?...... Let's give Ray Park a call, see if he'd be willing to let us film a few scenes with him.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

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Regarding the Greivous=Maul thing. What if when Obi-Wan confronts Greivous on Utapau, their exchange of words could go like this:

Greivous: Back away I will deal with this scum myself.

Obi-Wan: Your move.

Greivous: I will stare down on your body like I did your master's

(Off screen) Obi-Wan: Maul?

Greivous : Ah, yes. Bright aren't you.

Obi-Wan raises his saber and the fight continues as normal until the clones arrive then their second exchange would go as such:

(Close up of Greivous' eyes) Greivous: You will die by my blade.

(Close up of Obi-Wan's eyes) Obi-Wan: I don't think so.


This is just an idea.


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For Grievous=Maul, my idea has always been to have this revealed to Obi-Wan on Utapau, in the close-ups of their eyes. Taking one of Obi-Wan's two "It can't be"s from the security hologram scene would sell it, IMO. A voice actor would be required to dub over Grievous and whatever lines Maul might have in our Episode I. Grievous' Episode III dialogue would make or break this connection, so it needs to be top-notch. Also having the Nemoidians refer to Maul as Grievous in Episode I. I think we all like the name Maul better, but there are just too many characters who refer to Grievous by name in III to get around it.

As for the duel, I actually have a rough edit of an uninterrupted Anakin/Obi-Wan duel I'll upload this weekend. I think it works rather well, but in the context of the film it would probably be best to cut away at least once. Who knows, that's a long way off. Anyway, hopefully it'll be up by Saturday.
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It's almost too bad we can't make something like this:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Sluggomatic2000/GreviousMaul.jpg

Probably the worst photoshop I've done this month, but you get the idea
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Haha, yeah. I've seen a couple of pieces of fan art like that before. At first it seems like a cool concept, but realistically it would be rather ridiculous for Greivous to have that tatooed on his helmet.

Btw, is LTH still out there? His name has come up a few times for editing Episode I, so if he's reading this, please come forward so we can discuss.
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
For Grievous=Maul, my idea has always been to have this revealed to Obi-Wan on Utapau, in the close-ups of their eyes. Taking one of Obi-Wan's two "It can't be"s from the security hologram scene would sell it, IMO. A voice actor would be required to dub over Grievous and whatever lines Maul might have in our Episode I. Grievous' Episode III dialogue would make or break this connection, so it needs to be top-notch. Also having the Nemoidians refer to Maul as Grievous in Episode I. I think we all like the name Maul better, but there are just too many characters who refer to Grievous by name in III to get around it.

As for the duel, I actually have a rough edit of an uninterrupted Anakin/Obi-Wan duel I'll upload this weekend. I think it works rather well, but in the context of the film it would probably be best to cut away at least once. Who knows, that's a long way off. Anyway, hopefully it'll be up by Saturday.


I agree about the Grievous=Maul revelation should happen with the closeup of their eyes. It would provide an emotional punch, because you are right their staring into the eyes of Qui-Gon's murderer.


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Originally posted by: Trooperman
Some excellent Ep. III ideas from Musicman.


ANAKIN
I should have known the Dark Side had the true power!

OBI-WAN
Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!

ANAKIN
The Jedi are evil!

I really love this exchange. For this and other dialogue suggestions, I'd need to go back and look at Ep. III to find out if and how it would work (and of course we'd need someone that sounded like Ewan McGregor. Better yet- send a copy of SOTDS to Ewan McGregor and actually get HIM to do it! Ha ha. This probably isn't possible, but I think that this exchange would be even better at the beginning of the duel, rather than all the "Only Sith deal in absolutes" and "I will do what I must".

Much more dramatic is to have Anakin choke Padme, Obi-Wan come down from the ship, and then have the exchange.


ANAKIN
I should have known the Dark Side had the true power!

OBI-WAN
Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!

ANAKIN
The JEDI are evil! (read James Earl Jones style)


Enter dramatic, exciting music (not "Battle of the Heroes", which I felt was rather weak personally) as they throw off their cloaks and begin to fight.

Somehow, there's got to be a way to remove the lava surfing section. And Anakin/Darth does not say things like, "My point of view" during a life or death duel on a lava planet.

Thanks! Yeah, getting Ewan to record the dialogue would be great... Wouldn't it be awesome if we could get Hayden and Ewan to shoot the footage for our new dialogue? Man, the ideal situation!

If you place the exchange at the beginning, though, you have to deal with the fact that the footage comes from the duel over the lava, and it might take some background changing to work. There is also a section in the exchange on the landing (when Obi-Wan leaves the ship) where you see Anakin's face, and Obi-Wan's back is to the camera, but Anakin is far enough away that his mouth is indistinguishable as far as what he's saying, so I think that might be a good place to insert some dialogue. You could put the lava exchange there in theory, but I think it would be preferable to have some new dialogue there that's more appropriate and specific to the situation.

I didn't think the lava "surfing" was so bad--it's not as blatant as Legolas's shield surfing, since they are perched on the droids and platforms that are floating over the lava. I'm just glad GL didn't have them doing surfing moves while they dueled. But possibly more important than preference is the challenge of cutting it out. I don't know if it's really possible. If you can work it out, though, I'm curious to see how it works! More necessary is to digitally erase that shot-stealing droid that flies into frame when they are crossing over. That just ticked me off so bad.

And, Trooperman, you don't like Battle of the Heroes?

I thought it was really good. It had to grow on me, but it didn't take long. I'm wondering if the editing would help the music and the action to meld better...? Also, don't underestimate the power of faulty mixing. I've heard music that I loved on CD but was tremendously disappointed with in the film because it was mixed so low. Volume can have an impact on how well music meshes and enhances. Maybe try two versions, one with BotH and the other with whatever alternate is come up with. Once there's a cut of the duel, if you like I can try editing the original cues to fit the new cuts, and likely upmix it to see how that works. I will keep an open mind though--I thought you were nuts when you mentioned the thought of replacing the title music for SOTDS, and now I'm seriously looking forward to it. We'll see how it goes.

It always struck me as odd that that whole time, not once did Obi-Wan even try to ask Anakin what was happening, why he was doing what he was doing.

That's exactly right- that's the basic problem. No emotion whatsoever until Anakin is smoldering on the ground. Someone brought this up in General Discussion a long time ago, and I think it's very true- the duel should have felt like Luke and Han Solo turning against each other. That would've HURT.


Yeah, definitely. I don't know if you want to plan this far ahead, but I can go ahead and map out the duel. I don't have the original DVD, but I do have ADM's cut, which if I recall is pretty close to the original. From there I'll put in all my ideas for changes, and then everyone else can contribute. It's a long way off, but we can't do anything solid right now, so we might as well get planning done--I'm still working on the "spotting" for everything. I am getting some ideas. One of the major challenges is the foresight necessary to do this; keeping all of the available music and sequences in line and making sure I don't reuse stuff that is already getting tracked in altered form. It's cool, though.

I guess the other question that has to be asked is- why did Anakin go to the Dark Side. Was it all for love, to save Padme based on a 15-second dream? This is pretty stupid because Padme dies at the end of the film, and he still sticks around. I know the line about the Dark Side "dominating" one's destiny once they start down the path, but honestly, it's very weak. I think the better explanation is that he's troubled by the loss of his mother, Obi-Wan is restricting him to the extreme (remember in SOTDS he made Anakin take a vow of celibacy, which he breaks), and here's Palpatine with the Dark Side. Palpatine is not only friendly towards him, he teaches him to be powerful. Using the Dark Side is more fun. It's "quicker and easier", as Yoda said in ESB.

The main problem would be showing that this is the case with the footage given.


I think what the others have said (GL's original intent and concept) is correct, as are you. It starts with Padme, but once she's gone, it's just the easiest thing to do to follow the Dark Side. As others have said, he does what Palpatine says not only for Padme, but also because he feels like there's no where else to go. And it kind of consumes him, and he lets his emotions and his lust for power take over, and when he jumps to the conclusion that Obi-Wan and Padme are together, he kind of snaps. He essentially goes crazy in the duel, blocking out Obi-Wan's pleas (in our version ). The way he talks when he ask Palpatine about Padme, it's like he's kind of snapped out of it. He's not insane anymore, he's just trapped in the Dark Side. He doesn't see anywhere else to go, and Obi-Wan believes he's dead--and in the OT, he thinks he's hopeless. That's where Luke comes in.

As you said, the issue is how do we convey all of this.

I think all of the Maul/Grievous ideas are good. So it seems like everyone wants it to happen. Now, how do we do it? There was talk of a scene with Dooku informing Sidious of the progress on him, perhaps at the end of Episode II? An interesting dilemma.

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I don't know if it would work, but changing Grevious's eyes to match Maul's would be best. Perhaps some dialouge during the Obi-Wan/Grevious fight with Grevious mocking Obi-Wan for not killing him in TPM would work. Ideally, Obi-Wan would be suprised that Maul is still alive. Don't know if this is possible, though. One thing that would be good would be to get rid of Greivous's Russian-sounding accent and have his voice match Maul's more closely.
Something, though that maybe ought to be considered is why is Maul being kept around if he is alive? Unless you are editing out the whole bit about only being two sith lords at once, wouldn't Maul be a threat to Dooku's position and therefore rivals? I don't know if one can work it in, but imply that Dooku has no idea who Grevious really is, and when Grevious talks to Sidious after Dooku is killed, Grevious is glad to have his rival gone and he thinks he has been restored to the position of sith apprentice, not knowing he is still just being used.
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number20, if we could pull that off, the idea that Dooku doesn't know who Grievous is and that Grievous doesn't realize he's being used... that'd be great. Makes Palpatine even more manipulative.

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Personally, I'd like the discovery of the whole Maul/Grevious thing a bit earlier. I think we need to introduce a small theme where the connection is made and some would be able to comment that while he's still twisted and evil, Maul is now more machine than man.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
Personally, I'd like the discovery of the whole Maul/Grevious thing a bit earlier. I think we need to introduce a small theme where the connection is made and some would be able to comment that while he's still twisted and evil, Maul is now more machine than man.


What about we throw visual clues into the film. Instead of coming directly out saying and this is Maul at the beginning, have visual hints throughout the film and then when you get to the true revolation of Maul=Grievous you will look back and see all the hints. This would give the viewer a chance to figure out who Grievous is for themselves and it would make the viewer feel involved in a way.


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Marv, I think that would work better, although audio might be more flexible than video. I've seen the Grevious/Vader parallels on line but I'm not sure it was in this thread. In case anyone missed it, I think portraying Grevious as some type of proto-Vader would make for an interesting thread. Maybe a scene or line early in the movie explaining Grevious used to be a fierce warrior, maybe he had force abilities or something before some Jedi knocked him into a pit (or reactor - we could modify the TPM scene once we got to it to have some type of 'splosion when he hits bottom - paralleling Palpy's untimely demise in Jedi). Finally, in the duel, he reveals himself to be Quigon's killer. Or something.

It would also parallel Vader's own creation nicely.
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I agree that audio can be far more flexible than video, but if we can get adywan to do the digital effects then there is not much that I don't think he can do. Lets hope he can help the ranch.