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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 35

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The opening of RotJ is still up for discussion. It will either be Dagobah, Tatooine, or Palpatine's arrival on the Death Star. The ESB opening was always rather weak, inspiring the Death Star arrival scenario. It's Star Wars tradition to open in space with a ship of some short, but starting 2 films with back-to-back arrivals at the Death Star may be too much though, so we'll see.


This is just a general comment- I find it surprising that so many people find the opening to ESB to be weak! I love the slow open. The film has such a nice and steady pace, and the shot of the probe droid always makes you go, "hmmm, now what the heck is this going to be about?" Is this really the general consensus?

(This post shouldn't be taken as any criticism of the project- I'm all for any and all changes. The more the merrier).

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The emperor rolls his chair around. Out his windows is the city skyline


The only problem with this is you don't get the great shots of Luke looking out the window at the battle raging below. I don't know if they're essential to the plot, but they may be difficult to edit around.

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Why would the Bothans have needed to find the secret location of the DSII, when it's right over Coruscant?

They wouldn't need to.

Heading to the capitol to take out the DSII seems like obvious bait for the rebels.

Yes, but you'd still have the imperial fleet supposedly spread throughout the entire galaxy trying to engage the alliance.

Your pros far outweigh the cons....by far. The one con with the bothans can be solved with a simple trim. In fact, she pauses before she says it.

Think of the conclusiveness this gives the story. It returns to the place where Palps rose to power.

Now onto the hangar:

Didn't lucas show the SSD hangar in the ESB:SE to look eerily similar to the DS hangars? You could even use the outtake shot of Vader walking down the ramp in the ESB:SE to show that side of the hangar so you could then use the wider shot of all the troops in the following ones.

Small trims could also accomplish the idea that Jerjerrod is on Coruscant but will return to the DS to redouble his efforts.

It would also be interesting to show how closed off the Emperor has become. Here is Commander Jerrjerod on Coruscant, but only Vader is able to see him. Jerrjerod's shock would then add more weight to the idea that the Emperor has been shut off, not just from the populace, but from all but Vader and his closest advisors.

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Brimley
The only problem with this is you don't get the great shots of Luke looking out the window at the battle raging below. I don't know if they're essential to the plot, but they may be difficult to edit around.

No, the battle would still be over the DS like the original. I think there are even elements of the DS2 in the existing film that are about the right size.

You guys can do it. I know you can! Really amaze people with this! Blow them away!

EDIT
Another angle on this goes back to what someone above said about the "sanctuary moon" as an Imperial park so to speak...a place to tame and control.

Wouldn't it add some depth to have these little ewok buggers help take out the imperials right from under their noses? It drives home how arrogant the Emperor has become, as Luke alludes to when he meets him: "your arrogance is your weakness".
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You know, we might be able to get Coruscant into ROTJ if we leave the emperor's throne room on the DSII, and make Endor the sanctuary moon of Coruscant. Think about it, this would be the second time that Sidious, in orbit above Coruscant, in the middle of a battle, played an perspective apprentice against his number 1 sith.

The rebel briefing will need some tweaking though:
    I think we should convey that the DSII has moved to Endor, the moon of Coruscant, for the final phase of its construction. This makes it more believable that the rebels just found out about it.

    Cut the mention of the bothans.

    We also need to convey that the rebels realize this is a risk, but the imperial fleet is beleived to be engaged elsewhere.

    We will need to maybe redub Admiral Ackbar to give a little extra exposition that the rebels are going to Endor, the forest moon of Coruscant.


Ultimately, I think this is Commander Courage's call, since he knows what resources are available to us.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
You know, we might be able to get Coruscant into ROTJ if we leave the emperor's throne room on the DSII, and make Endor the sanctuary moon of Coruscant. Think about it, this would be the second time that Sidious, in orbit above Coruscant, in the middle of a battle, played an perspective apprentice against his number 1 sith.

The rebel briefing will need some tweaking though:
    I think we should convey that the DSII has moved to Endor, the moon of Coruscant, for the final phase of its construction. This makes it more believable that the rebels just found out about it.

    Cut the mention of the bothans.

    We also need to convey that the rebels realize this is a risk, but the imperial fleet is beleived to be engaged elsewhere.

    We will need to maybe redub Admiral Ackbar to give a little extra exposition that the rebels are going to Endor, the forest moon of Coruscant.


Ultimately, I think this is Commander Courage's call, since he knows what resources are available to us.


I say go for it (along with CC's original list of great changes and resequencing). Replace the musical number in Jabba's palace for something good. Perhaps do a bit of score replacement (use "Anakin's Theme" from Episode I for the Vader unmasking scene). THAT is a version of ROTJ I'd like to see. Also, if at all possible, wouldn't it be great to reinstate the subplot where the Emperor decides to actually blow up Endor if anything goes wrong? In fact, the moment things start going wrong, wouldn't it be great to have a countdown (like in the original SW!) to add some tension? Problem is the unmasking scene; could that be done on Coruscant? We're running into logistics problems, but you understand me.

I also like the idea of Endor being kind of an "Imperial park". If it could be set up, it'd be great; after they think they've "tamed" the little beast, they revolt and join the Rebels.


Originally posted by: Commander Courage
I have returned! Sorry for the extended absence; real life takes precedence. This is going to be a slow process, as I did not expect to have to take over the project so completely. It's a new experience for me and I hope to be able to deliver. Once again, any assistance of any kind would be more than welcome.


Hey, great to see you back! (did you receive my PM, BTW?). Don't feel bad, because in your hands this will be done a heck of a lot sooner than it would be by the time I got to it. I'm just happy there's another editor still working on this. Episode I is a huge project, and I actually think I might have been burned out after Ep. II and III. It's just a massive undertaking to do it right, and that's why I'm happy that there are fresh minds working on that. I'm putting pretty much everything I've got into Ep. II.

Nice to continue the discussion!

-TM

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Trooperman
Also, if at all possible, wouldn't it be great to reinstate the subplot where the Emperor decides to actually blow up Endor if anything goes wrong? In fact, the moment things start going wrong, wouldn't it be great to have a countdown (like in the original SW!) to add some tension? Problem is the unmasking scene; could that be done on Coruscant? We're running into logistics problems, but you understand me.

That would be very cool. That's still in the novel. Was it shot?

I also like the idea of Endor being kind of an "Imperial park". If it could be set up, it'd be great; after they think they've "tamed" the little beast, they revolt and join the Rebels.

Is there any way to subtitle the ewoks? You could convey it when Chief Chirpa gets up and gives his short speech and makes his gesture. Maybe have something like "small in number we are, but heart we have. Fight with you, we will.".Oh wait, that's Yoda.

EDIT

You know what got me going on this? I saw that picture on one of the previous pages of Vader's SSD with the DS2 from ROTJ and a light went off. If you guys can do that,taking two elements and combining them together, then you can take one element and add it to an existing shot.


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I'm so excited about trying to work in Coruscant. And also with the ROTJ edit are you guys still thinking about trying to expand Endor and add thing into Endor as if it is being destroyed by the Empire by popultion or whatever the idea was I can't remember haha. And with the force ghosts is there anyway to make them morph from Old Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda to young Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda??
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These are some cool ideas here. I'm very curious about the Coruscant stuff.

Just to let you guys know, we're going to be moving. We'll be staying at my Granny's condo starting Saturday for up to a month, and she only has DSL. So I'll do my best to stay in touch, and I can try to use my Dad's computer at work for faster stuff, but I may be limited on my sound contributions for a little while--MAYBE. I'll still do my best to keep up to speed.

Cool ideas, guys!
Two-Face - A Batman:The Animated Series Movie
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Here's been one of my big problems with ROTJ for some time now: In ESB, the rebels get their butts kicked. They get chased across the galaxy. Luke loses a hand and is given an unsettling revelation. Han is frozen in carbonite. Luke and Leia rendezvous with a small rebel fleet. They're in tatters and things have gone to hell.

Cut to ROTJ a mere year after. Suddenly, the rebel alliance is strong again with a large fleet and new allies and leaders. What?!

I would change the crawl of ROTJ to be more desperate on the part of the rebels. Make it sound like the rebels are still in tatters from ESB and so they launch a, some would say foolish, risky assault into the heart of the empire.

It would raise the stakes and make the rebels appear more desperate for a huge victory that could end the war.

Of course, the Emperor would know about all this and would let them come. >
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I love hearing these great ideas.

Coruscant for ROTJ might be interesting, if it could be done without seeming to much like an obvious fan edit. Of course, this would help the ending if you are leaving in the planets montage.

But how would you explain Luke watching the space battle, and the Emperor in command of the Death Star? I don't want to be a wet blanket, but I don't know if it'd go smoothly.

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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But how would you explain Luke watching the space battle, and the Emperor in command of the Death Star?

Luke would still be watching the space battle from the throne room, only he would be watching it from Coruscant. Palps would still be in command of the DS. The DS would be in Coruscant's orbit, blowing rebel ships away.

Picture that "Luke obsererves the space battle" scene with little shapes and small flashes. Now imagine that with a distant DS2 in the same shot.

You really wouldn't have to edit much at all, just add the DS in a few shots and Coruscant in a few.
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Originally posted by: shanep
But how would you explain Luke watching the space battle, and the Emperor in command of the Death Star?

Luke would still be watching the space battle from the throne room, only he would be watching it from Coruscant. Palps would still be in command of the DS. The DS would be in Coruscant's orbit, blowing rebel ships away.

Picture that "Luke obsererves the space battle" scene with little shapes and small flashes. Now imagine that with a distant DS2 in the same shot.

You really wouldn't have to edit much at all, just add the DS in a few shots and Coruscant in a few.


I think this might be a bit of a stetch. In ANH, Luke had to use his macrobinoculars to see a battle in orbit over tatooine. Now in ROTJ he's supposed to look out a window and see ships in orbit around a moon of coruscant?

Think of how small our moon looks in the sky. Now imagine a little Death Star next to it. Now imagine a bunch of little ships around the Death Star. At night, the only things you would be able to see are the moon and the Death Star.

I think it would be easier to have the emperor's throne room be on the DSII, as it is in ROTJ. Remember, he is part of the bait for the rebellion. The attack is in part an assasination attempt.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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All this editing discussion about RotJ is really the most enjoyable to me. It is the key to a cohesive saga, and if we can make it work, we'll be in business.

It seems I may have been a bit too negative in my initial response to the Coruscant in RotJ idea. It has potential, but we really need to think it all through. What turned me off to it was the idea that the Luke/Vader/Palpatine confrontation took place in the Imperial Palace, not on the Death Star. Now, ideally that's what would have happened, but to composite Coruscant outside the windows (and making it look professional as if it has always been that way) is a massive undertaking well above and beyond any fan editor. Who knows, maybe ILM could do it in a future release, but not Starkiller Ranch. Now that that's been established, I do see possibilities here. This is of a very different line of thought than I had been following do far with this edit though.

Originally moving the beginning of RotJ to ESB was to establish continuity with the 2nd Death Star and not have it come seemingly out of nowhere in RotJ. I thought this worked well, and still do. What is the general concencus on this? Would you also agree with this alteration, or prefer the Vader scene be left for RotJ?

Once that is established, an opening for RotJ can be nailed down. The first part of the film is going to be heavily resequenced, and knowing whether or not the Vader scene is going to be in there would help tremendously.

In any case, incorporating Coruscant would require some special effects work far beyond my capability. Once again I send out an SOS to anyone who could help in the area of effects. We are in dire need.

As for the story logistics of the DS2 being in the Coruscant system, that would make its existence common knowledge, would it not? This might actually help the nonchalant attitude the Rebels have towards it in the film: they've known about it for some time. Mon Mothma's speech will need to be edited, and as stated earlier, the Mon Calamari will need their own language (dubbed and subtitled). Also, assuming we're going for the "assasinate the Emperor" objective (which I really like, btw, whoever first suggested it), is it really that big a deal if they're going to Coruscant to do it? Though playing on his reclusive nature, this could indeed be the first time the Rebels have had a chance to strike at Palpatine (not being in his palace or whatever). There's much mapping-out to be done with these ideas, but it just might work. Working Coruscant into the OT is essential to making the saga flow, and this does seem like the best opportunity to do so.

Also, what did you guys think of the suggested new ANH scene with Vader and the Emperor? Any feedback on that?
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the new ANH sceen with the emperor would be an great idea, and Move the DSII begining to ESB and leave Vader outta the begining of ROTJ.
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Do you mind CC if I join this discussion as an idea-concept person?

I really like the idea of visiting Yoda at the start of ROTJ like you guys had planned. I think that's a cool idea.

You're right too about Coruscant...it does take alot of thinking things out in advance before you even proceed with it.

How did you do that shot with the SSD and the DS2 you had planned for ESB? That's what orginally made the light go off in my head about the possiblity of doing this.

But you're saying you don't have the capability?

That's alright. Let's keep discussing it for now and working everything out and maybe a solution will present itself.
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Do you mind CC if I join this discussion as an idea-concept person?
Definitely. That's what this thread is all about, no need to ask for permission from anyone!


How did you do that shot with the SSD and the DS2 you had planned for ESB? That's what orginally made the light go off in my head about the possiblity of doing this.

That was a photoshop job of still images. I didn't make them; I can't recall who did, but it wasn't me. It was just to illustrate the kind of shots we'd be going for with the final product. And no, I do not have the capability to create such special effects shots. We are on a neverending quest it seems to find a special effects person who is capable and willing. I have faith one will come along eventually, but for now we're pretty useless in the special effects department.

More discussion about the Death Star 2:
Should it be in the same location in ESB and RotJ? Cutting the cockpit dialogue about the deflector sheild would solve that possible inconsistency, and in ESB the Death Star could be in construction in secret over Mustafar (as suggested by Erik). Then in RotJ, it is above Coruscant's santuary moon of Endor, protected by a shield. In fact, this scenario has already solved the problem of opening RotJ with the Emperor arriving at the Death Star. Saving extra scenes from Vader's arrival, such as the cockpit bit, might allow for a smooth transition where before we didn't have much to work with. How does moving an "uncompleted" Death Star from Mustafar to Coruscant feel to you guys? If explained correctly in the opening crawl or by Ackbar (or both) I think it could work. Once again, this would make for back-to-back arriving at the Death Star openings, but if the general consensus is to go for it then I'd be fine with it too. But the logic of moving it when it's not even finished does seem a bit flawed. Thoughts?
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It could be going to Coruscant in anticipation of a ceremonial thing, like a ribbon cutting. The Emperor wants to "throw the switch". Or maybe the crawl just says "As the rebel fleet gathers, The Emperor has called for his new station to protect the capitol"?
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CC: The films already open with sequential Star Destroyer scenes. Opening with 2 DS shots doesn't seem like a big deal. Besides, It could create a bit more urgency for the Rebellion. I have always thought the DS was way underplayed in ROTJ. The idea in the Novel of the DS destroying Endor pretty cool. I guess I'm one of those who see the parallelism between the films as poetic rather than pointless.

I like Guy's idea of the DS protecting the capitol.
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hey I just figured why not cut the ewoks completely and have the death star be orbiting corsacant.
after all there going to asassnate palpatine right.

there you could use shots of the imperial city from Revemge of the sith as stock footage.
and clean up the end cellbration footage by removing the endor trees and by compositing in our heros luke, leia ,han, lando etc
into to a new enviorment such as nabbo and have luke and leia visit there mothers grave.
than the force ghosts appear.
a force ghost anikian it is the old force ghost than he morphs into the younger hayden one then a force ghost padme appears at his side.
than yoda and obiwan.
will this work

thanx

catofong


"Tom Baker is
one and only

doctor who".............
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And what exactly would han and leia be doing through half of the movie. Remember that Han has to blow up the shield generator, and there is no way to make that work if they are not on Endor.


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they could be gurella terrorists ploting to assinate palptine.
like when castro over the the cuban republic.
there could raid the imperial city
also the would be no shield genrator

remember that in this edit supposingly the first death star was never really destroyed.
this would be the same death star

also we could put back the sandstorm sequence. if a couple of people refilm the scene after all luke and han a both wearing those gogles also
leia is wearing that dark head scarf complete over her face so practicly if some one could use a program like avid pro tools a edited the diolog silible
by sillble you could make the diolog from scratch but never the less that would take a hell'va lot of work it would be great if any one on the board
would be up to pull it off.

thanx

catofong



"Tom Baker is
one and only

doctor who".............
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well maybe after Trooperman finishes his epsidoe 2 and 3 edits then he could help on the Special Effects shots. Cuz isn't he doing alot of Special Effect shots for SotDS.
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Hi there!- I don't really count as a special effects person. Most of my visual work has been colors/lighting, impact flashes, rotoscoping, and cinematography (changing the framing, making the camera move, and so on). When I want to do something radical like replace the Analysis Temple robots or put Grand Moff Tarkin into the Senate, I'm just as helpless as you all are.

Please come to us, Mr. Star Wars Special Effects Artist- wherever you are...

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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why not just use linux
it exellent for rendering you video if you build a array of processing power
you could use cinlerra for editing it on par with avid or final cut

and its free and open source it will run on redhat fedora core , suse ,debian ,slackware etc.
i also use maya complete fror linux from alias wavefront i run it on redhat fc4.
i also use a wacom 4x5 tablet configured using drivers from the wacom linux project at sourceforge.
i also do all of my rotoscoping use the one of the most widely use opensource tools in hollywood
cinepaint. as one might know it as photoshop for linux here a linux for the two programs listed above :
cinepaint
cinelerra
wacom for linux
thanx

catofong
"Tom Baker is
one and only

doctor who".............