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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 27

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Hey musicman, glad to have you with us.


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Unfortunately, all I knew to begin with was that I didn’t want Anakin to build 3PO. Looking back, it looks as if the best way to do that is to cut 3PO from Episode I.

The problem is that we need C-3PO in Episode II because he sets up what is going on with R2 on Geonosis. You may or may not remember that the ship lands, Anakin and Padme exit, and C-3PO starts arguing with R2. R2 leaves and C-3PO stays, ending with “Have you no sense at all?” Then, when Padme is stuck in the pot, R2 pops up unexpectedly and saves the day (without flying). Without the previous sequence, this would make no sense to the viewer, and I don’t want to have to cut that part of the droid factory sequence. I have to have the R2/C3PO scene to set it up, because it’s even more necessary after we’ve cut the flying (which establishes his presence). He just shows up on the pathway.

Also to clarify, in SOTDS, C3PO never enters the factory, he never loses his head, he never shows up at the arena, etc. R2 also does not show up at the arena. He just has his traditional heroic moment (in the droid factory), then disappears into the woodwork until the wedding.

This is why turning TC-14 in Ep. I into C-3PO would probably not work in this scenario. C3PO in Episode II has to be the real thing. Unless, of course, we turned C3PO in Episode II into a different droid, which doesn’t really appeal to me much. With that in mind, we need to figure out why Anakin picks him up if he’s Owen’s droid.


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Here’s an idea I’m sure you didn’t expect from me- Redub Uncle Owen. He only has two or three lines anyway; they would hardly be difficult to remove. Also, his voice doesn’t sound anything like Owen from Ep. IV anyway, and it’d hardly be a loss as he was no great actor. I also want to point out that the following is very convenient because we have a lot of footage that would otherwise be cut out and unused (like Owen’s babbling about stepbrothers and girlfriends)…

C3PO: I am See-Threepio, human/cyborg relations. At your service. So pleased to meet you, sir. I need not take the liberty to inform you that…(or some other typical 3PO ramble).

Anakin: I’m here to find my mother- Shmi Skywalker.

C3PO: Your mother! Well, the proper procedure is ….etc. etc. (blah blah blah- establishing him as a very annoying character from the get go).

Anakin: Just take me to your master.

C3PO: Oh, yes. I see. My master. Follow me, please.

CUT to EXT: Owen’s place.


Anakin: I’m Anakin Skywalker.

Lars: Owen Lars.

Anakin: It took awhile for your droid to take us here.

Owen: Don’t even get me started on the robot. He’s a protocol droid and he can’t even speak Bocce. The Jawa traders dumped him on me last month. (pause). I’ll give you 500 credits if you take him.

Anakin: Is my mother here?

Cliegg arrives and gives his little talk. “We have a lot to talk about.” He turns. We hear the sound of footsteps as they walk away.

It begins to sink in for C3PO. CLOSE-UP (CFSS)

C3PO: Sir, sir! There must be some mistake!

CUT to Beru serving drinks in next scene.

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The movie continues from there, except for the following: After Anakin and Padme decide to leave Tatooine, instead of “I’m not worried, R2. It’s just that I’ve never flown before,” C3PO says, “What did I do to deserve this?”

Anthony Daniels has recorded so much 3PO dialogue between the OT films, the radio dramas, the specials, and so on that that wouldn’t be a problem. And best of all, I believe that it would introduce C3PO in a much better way than it was done in Episode I, when Anakin built him. The fact that Owen paid Anakin to take him is some real humor, which might also be good for the movie at this point (we’ve removed a lot of the lame stuff and it could use a lift). Also, it perfectly sets up 3POs and R2’s first meeting and argument.

Also, I think that the new Owen lines link his character much more closely with Ep. IV, which was a weak point there had never been a way to fix- until now.

All we need is an Uncle Owen impersonator that has the time and the means to dub six short sentences. I’m not going to pull a Lucas and insist that this was part of my “original vision”, but I really like this idea that came to me today. I’ve checked the widescreen and full-screen discs, and the outline above will actually work. Please comment The good thing is that this only affects my movie; you guys won’t have to worry about it at all for Ep. I.

Sorry for the late response!

-TM

P.S.- Hi Musicman! The overall look of these is going to be a LOT different. At least for SOTDS, the colors and the lighting are being reworked exhaustively to be more realistic and film-like. Also, the cinematography is being largely redone to improve the compositions. This will all contribute to a much older look, which is what the original point of this was. I'm really glad when I hear comments from people that will really appreciate the aesthetic changes. Rather than updating the OT, age the prequels. That was always the motto for me

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Wow, TM. That's an excellent idea I would've never considered! Dubbing Uncle Owen.

Best part is, I can put you in touch with a guy who will do the recording for you. No doubt he can sound exactly like a young uncle owen. He's fast, uses his own equipment and he's good at what he does. In fact, if you send me the lines, I'll just go to him and get 'em done for you and send you the wavs (or mp3's), whichever you'd prefer.

And the most exciting part about this idea is that C-3PO is now a Trooperman problem instead of an InfoDroid problem. Muhahahaha!

Thanks, Man!

--ID

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Thanks for the welcomes, guys! I'm glad to hear the visual work is being done. Yeah, Trooperman, that may actually be my main beef for the PT. I don't think the issue was even so much a CG issue (though some sweet model work would've been nice), as a film/digital issue. A film look (IMO) is much better for Star Wars, and that'll be a big help.

And I love the idea for 3PO's introduction! I was truly laughing at the dialogue--it'll be fun hearing Uncle Owen ask 3PO if he speaks bocce in ANH after that! I hope you go with that, because it's really good. I must say, I was a little sad to hear the dynamic duo wouldn't be present for all six films with this approach, but just that bit made me feel a whole lot better about it. Very nice!

I will be sending you a PM shortly, InfoDroid.
Two-Face - A Batman:The Animated Series Movie
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Hey, musicman, make sure to turn on your PM's. I sent you a response, but it's not showing in my history. That probably means your PM's are turned off.

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I'm still digging my version, but Trooperman's could work too. I don't think a jedi and a queen/senator would want or need 500 credits badly enough to take a rusty whiny old droid with them though. Plus it still doesn't explain why Owen doesn't remember having already owned a protocol droid called SeeThreepio when they meet in ANH.

War does not make one great.

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The redubbing of Owen has opened up all new possibilities. Without saying too much, I think everything is going to work out just fine.

And in response to YIYF, the Owen remembering 3PO thing has been an issue with fans ever since AotC came out. I've never really had a problem with it, and I don't think it's a continuity glitch in out edit either. 3PO looks totally different, and Owen never learns his name. The only interaction they had was when the droids were being purchased. I'm sure eventually Owen would have realized who he was, but things didn't go that way.
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Just chiming in to say I love TM's threepio fixes!

I think more opportunities may exist to take advantage of this new and exciting characterization of threepio. This is much more in line with the "We seem to be made to suffer" threepio we meet in ANH.

I love cutting him out of TPM and only hesitate slightly at the "500 credits" to take him beat-- I wish it could be established that Anakin or Padme have some use for a protocol droid. Otherwise, it will stick out as a strange and uncharacteristic beat.

Maybe increasing Artoo's role in this exchange would help -- i.e. they take threepio to help interpret Artoo or otherwise create a more useful arrangement of droids for their mission to save Obi Wan.

Obviously, that's an SOTD issue-- but we seem to need it solved here as well.

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I have a suggestion on the C3PO thing. Perhaps these lines:

C3PO: May I present two most important visitors. (mabye something else for C3PO)

Anakin: I'm Anakin Skywalker.

Owen: I expected you would come here. I'm Owen Lars that robot was a gift from my Father to your Mother. She would have wanted you to have it.

Anakin: What are you talking about? Is my Mother here?

Cliegg: (off camera) No she's not. (on camera) Cliegg Lars, (extends hand camera on Anakin) Shmi's my wife. We should head inside. We have a lot to talk about.

Sure, it's not as, funny as, the "take him for 500 credits" beat but, it might work.


http://twister111.tumblr.com
Previous Signature preservation link

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This really isn't any contribution to the usefullness of this thread or anything, but after hearing somebodys suggestion of redubbing TC-14 with C3-POs voice, I thought how interesting it would have been had Lucas decided to make threepeo one of many droids with that same voice. It would have been just sort of a fun cameo having the droid introduce himself as TC-14 with Anthony Daniels voice. That would have been great hearing that voice speak the opening lines of the film. In Ep II the same voice could have been the voice of Clegg's droid or even just make him Padme's droid from the start. Would have been a lot better than "I'm building a droid..."

Oh, and I really think the "I'll give you 500 credits if you'll take." fits in really well with threepios lot in life. Maybe it is a little silly, but it is funny and not too over the top like most of the threepio scene shown later in Ep. II. And it isn't that Anakin and Padme need him, the guy pretty much gave them the droid so they take him. Probably Padme thinks some tech's back in the capitol might be able to do something with him. Anyway, I don't think the audience is going to be thinking "Why would they want the five hundred credits, it isn't the point. The point is to establish that the Lars family doens't want him, and with this line it is accomplished. I really like it. Actually I am getting more and more excited about the Ranch Ep 1 and Trooperman's Ep.2

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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There might not be a lot going on in the thread at the moment, but I assure much is being accomplished behind the scenes.

On a somewhat unrelated topic, it has been brought to my attention that utilizing the audio from the Tone Poems is impossible due to not being able to seperate the dialogue from the music. If in fact this is the case it is a terrible shame, and if anyone could let us know otherwise that wouldbe wonderful. The loss of the tone poems leaves us without some excellent Qui-Gon dialogue, so it seems we will have to be more creative. I suggest utilizing the Qui-Gon dialogue in Clone Wars as part of a voiceover to Anakin at the end of the space battle. The voice actor sounds almost exactly like Neeson, and with the added ghost/spirit echo effects it should be indistinguishable. This dialogue is as follows:
"Yes Anakin. It calls to you."
"Yes. You must enter it, alone."
"Control your fear. You are the Chosen One, and you must be tested."
"Only what you take with you."
"Your final test is at hand. Trust in the Force."

The dilemma would be mixing this dialogue with other Neeson dialogue. If we did, I think the non-Neeson stuff would stick out too much. So there's something discussion worthy to inject some life back into the Ranch thread.
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Well, I just finished reading the whole thread. The progress is really neat.

I actually haven't heard the tone poems. It isn't possible to use anything from the front or center channels? Dang.

As far as Threepio goes, as much as I hate the thought of not having him in addition to R2 (and I never really minded Anakin building him--don't hurt me! ), both Trooperman's idea for II and Yoda Is Your Father's idea for III (although this evidently isn't possible due to the Geonosis sequence) have their own charm. The only real bugger to me is the fact that if Anakin doesn't build Threepio, there is no scene of Anakin and Padme going to see him, leaving the ending of the scene as "Your son was kind enough to offer us shelter." PLOP. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't see any real problem--Trooperman's take sounds pretty feasible. Is there any extra footage of Shmi and/or Qui-Gon in the entry or something where a little extra dialogue could be inserted to smooth that out?
Two-Face - A Batman:The Animated Series Movie
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Musicman:

The C-3PO dilemma has been solved, and I'm confident everyone will be pleased with the final result.

As for the scene you mentioned, a reaction smile from Shmi has been added to make for a smooth transition. Many scenes have been resequenced, and the flow on Tatooine, while radically different from the original, is wonderful.
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i can;t wait to see the finished results of this whole project, it seems awesome
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Originally posted by: musicman
That's excellent news, Commander Courage! That's perfect. A reaction shot from Shmi should do the trick nicely. I can hardly wait to see it myself! Good stuff.


I have a question, will all the incest kissing be removed?? And are you going to try to make its so that Obi Wan and Uncle Owen are brothers like GL orignally intended? I think it works better for the end of ep.III and Uncles Owens dislike from ep.IV
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Ah, yes. I had been wondering about that. I think the biggest thing is the ESB kiss. Everything else is okay. If you can somehow cut from "I guess you don't know everything about women" smoothly to the shot of her leaving (presumably with some kind of reaction shot or something in between), you can just do it that way, with Luke's expression now simply meaning "Ha! You just got OWNED!" Ideally, this shouldn't even have been an issue. Personally, I've always rooted for the idea of Leia not being Luke's sister, and them being together. Oh, well...
Two-Face - A Batman:The Animated Series Movie
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If you use the pan-scan version, you could possibly find a useable close-up reaction shot for Han. Or at least crop one out. I agree, the incest kiss is logical, but pretty disturbing.
"The things that stick in my mind and make me laugh were, like, memos worried about whether or not the Wookie should have pants. They're looking at this thing and saying, "Couldn't he have some lederhosen?" This is great. Of all the things to worry about, the Wookie has no pants." -Mark Hamill
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Actually, ADigitalMan already got rid of it in his version of Empire. And it works pretty well.

The Episode I script is finished up to the final battle.

Erik should be posting it soon.

--ID

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Folks,

Version 10 of the script is up:
http://www.erikstormtrooper.com/ranchedit.html

This is a long one - from Watto's shop up to right before the final battle.

InfoDroid et al, I noticed that the podrace section is a tad vague: (POD RACE HAPPENS. CUT SIMILAR TO MAGFAN’S EDIT.)

Are details on this being left until the end?

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Erik,

Regarding the pod race... I'm not trying to be mysterious about it. It's just a sequence that's very firmly grounded in complicated visuals. I'm not sure a text version would be much help to the editor. It's not really something where you can write out each shot. I mean, I probably could. But I don't want to. Lucas does the same thing, when it comes to the duels, he simply writes "They fight".

But the main points you all need to know are:

-The race will be much shorter, more exciting and easier to understand what's happening.

-It will have completely new music.

-There will be no two-headed announcer.

-No Jabba. No Wald (Warwick Davis in a Greedo costume). No C-3PO. No Kitster.

-All shots with goofy cgi pilots, the pit droid "Three Stooges" routine, fart/burp jokes, and all other foolishness will be removed.

-Anakin will not be using any sort of overt Force powers during the race, as had been previously discussed on this thread. We decided against it. Anakin will win the race through determined piloting skill and his heightened reflexes.

-The content and pace will be very similar to MagFan's edit, minus all of the things mentioned above.

-We're going to try to find a way to make Anakin's victory celebration at the end less abrupt. In the original, Anakin wins and then it just wipes to the next scene, no time to really enjoy the magnitude of his victory, musically or otherwise. So, we're working on finding a way to make it better. His victory is a big event, both on his path to becoming a Jedi and for the eventual fate of the galaxy. It should feel big.

I think that pretty much covers it. If you guys have any other questions about it, let us know.

--ID

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yes, the race ended way too abruptly! I always thought it would be cool to end on a shot of Anakin's "team flag"(that threepio carries out) fluttering in the wind.
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Haven't had time to even look in here for awhile-- seems pretty much like a lot is happening in the background somewhere.

Well, I have no way of knowing if this is in the race or not-- but I wanted to recut the race so that Qui Gonn's assessment of Anakin's powers grows as the race goes on -- this means adding close ups of him to make one or more of Anakin's incredible feats register on Qui Gonn (with the Force theme rising proudly along with his realization: this is the CHOSEN ONE!).

There was one usable close up I had in particular mind -- the one where he looks into the distance as Anakin talks to the old lady in the market. I don't think we even use this beat anymore. The background is just the blue sky so it should drop into the race pretty easily (perhaps reversed).

Best wishes! Good work!