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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 13

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Originally posted by: MTHaslett
...And I guess we're not doing the "LOTR" style montage at the beginning? I kind of vote against it for time reasons if nothing else -- and as such, I think we may need a title for this Episode I other than "Star Wars" to differentiate it from the official Trooperman Episode I that will come later with montage and the title Star Wars.

That, and it's against Star Wars tradition, IMO. I was also sort of against "Star Wars" for the title as I think every chapter deserves its own title. But as I understand it, this edit IS "Trooperman's Episode I," just under the supervision of a different crew.
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Someone needs to host an annotated script online, where they make all the changes we decide to the script. If it's a text only web page, we all can check in every couple of days and see how the flow of the story is flowing. And maybe we can have links to all the sample clips we have been tinkering around with. If I still had my web page up, I'd be happy to do it.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
Someone needs to host an annotated script online, where they make all the changes we decide to the script. If it's a text only web page, we all can check in every couple of days and see how the flow of the story is flowing. And maybe we can have links to all the sample clips we have been tinkering around with. If I still had my web page up, I'd be happy to do it.


erikstormtrooper.com is willing and able.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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commander courage wrote:
Yes, your Gungan idea is a tempting one darthpreston, but in the end I think it's cutting too much, and ruins the dynamic between Jar-Jar, the Jedi, and the other Gungans for later in the film. The flow of the scenes as you outlined does indeed work, but I think if we're to reinvent the Gungans, we need that material to work with.


I see your point, but I still don't see how much connection we get from those scenes in the underwater city. I think it would be important to re-establish the character of jar jar as a hopeless adventurer who needs to stay home in the first place. But if you keep all of the gungan city scenes, then your re-introducing the silly plot of jar jar being banished for "clumsyness" and seeing him imprisoned, then later to be freed by qui gon (through jedi mind trick no less) to take jar jar along. There is also a weird vibe going on with obi wan in this scene where he is annoyed to be taken on a pathetic, stupid creature and later points out anakin as a "pathetic lifeform"...............I just always considered obiwan to be a student that tries as hard as he can to be a good apprentice and a jedi. Well, a jedi really shouldn't go around complaining about "pathetic lifeforms", they respect all forms of life. But the whole gungan city is just really, shiny, smooth and cartoony for my taste. I don't see what character development we get from jar jar, quigon or the gungans from these scenes (at least nothing we could not get from their scene later in the movie). Besides, we need to get to the point of the movie, which now is a story of Qui Gon running into anakin and their relationship, the nemoidian fleet and their invasion, and whatever we can do with amidala's story. But that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.



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Well, I'm back and I must say, Narnia was fantastic. It really was, CC. "You were right..." Definitely one to buy. Neeson dialogue is ripe for the picking.

But, why must you hold on to things like the "Trade Federation Theme"? It's time you stopped drinking George Lucas' Kool-Aid. I'm kidding. It's actually one aspect of TPM that I can take or leave. It's just one of those things like Trooperman was talking about (regarding the love theme), where it's been associated with badness for so long that it actually spoils the music. But I'm wiling to compromise on that one if you and MTH feel strongly enough about it.

Regarding Jar-Jar: Jar-Jar WILL be subtitled for the reasons outlined by MTH. It's a must. I know it's a lot of reading, but, we need to find a way to fundamentally change his character, his motivation, everything about him must be born anew, and without copying MagFan. What if Jar-Jar was already on his way to Theed to deliver a very important message to the Queen from the Gungans when he ran into the Jedi? That may be a starting point, unless someone has a better idea.

Neimoidians: WILL be subtitled. So far, everyone has seemed to like the clips I made with the Passion dialogue, so that one's a given. I do, however, need to discover how to do subtitles. Which shouldn't be a problem, I just haven't focused on it yet.

Darth Maul IS Greivous: One way or another we will make this work. Because the alternatives are simply unacceptable. Whatever we have to do, we'll make it work.

LOTR montage: I have no plans to do this. Unless someone wants to convince me that it's a good (and necessary) idea.

The Dukoo thing: The jury is still out. Even in my mind. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

The Gungan Battle: is the part I've always hated because I feel like I'm watching a Disney cartoon. Not a Star Wars film. When EVERYTHING in the picture is animated, it becomes an animated movie. When you say it's the best part of the movie, MTH, I have no idea where you're coming from. However, there is hope. Perhaps with some desaturation or color effects we can make it look more realistic. The shot of them coming out of the mist, I like. I always have, since the trailer. Unfortunately, what follows, particularly when both sides are in a perfect line shooting at each other, it becomes ridiculous. And those huge, blue bola things I wasn't a big fan of either. Too organic for Star Wars. Maybe that was the point.

But, in any case, I feel confident that a happy medium can be reached.

I've volunteered to do the editing on this project, as long as you guys (MTH and CC) take the responsibility of making this into your TPM dream-project. Going through the whole movie by committee is not going to work. But, if you guys (MTH and CC) can write the script and direct me where you want it go, and we can iron out any controversies as we go along, then I'm ready to start knocking this puppy out. And though I know, of course, that Trooperman is extremely busy with editing SOTDS and his personal life (that's why I haven't mentioned him much)... as always his contributions and direction are more than welcome and appreciated. (No pressure. )

Things like music choice and dialogue flow are minor concerns until you get the plot and characters set in stone. I mean, we're working from the ground up here. TPM is going to be the hardest to do, but it's the film which will benefit the most from our work. 80% of what we've been given by Lucas is garbage. The best 20% can be preserved, and the rest will have to be dusted off and prettied up... And turned into a classic.

The online script is a PERFECT idea, Sluggo! Bless you, erikstormtrooper for coming forward to help with this! I know that this will greatly help me personally in the editing process if the others are willing to do it.

--InfoDroid

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Originally posted by: darthpreston
I just always considered obiwan to be a student that tries as hard as he can to be a good apprentice and a jedi. Well, a jedi really shouldn't go around complaining about "pathetic lifeforms", they respect all forms of life. But the whole gungan city is just really, shiny, smooth and cartoony for my taste. I don't see what character development we get from jar jar, quigon or the gungans from these scenes (at least nothing we could not get from their scene later in the movie). Besides, we need to get to the point of the movie, which now is a story of Qui Gon running into anakin and their relationship, the nemoidian fleet and their invasion, and whatever we can do with amidala's story. But that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.


I heartily agree with you, Sir.

************************

Meanwhile, here's a link to my first attempt at the "Anakin Dream Sequence" that was suggested earlier...

Anakin's Dream

Not sure how the desaturation will look on your screens, please let me know.

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InfoDroid-- Bless you for taking on the heavy lifting. I think I can speak for Commander Courage and say we'd be honored to contribute all we can to create our fantasy "Episode I" edit. The offer to host an online script is really helpful -- we just need to devise a way to get ourselves all onto the same page. If Commander and I are to be the chief architects, then it'd probably be most polite for us to work out the script and then post it scene by scene-ish. Some way for us to break the movie down to digestible chunks so that we communicate completely and quickly about what needs to be done.

So we still need to settle the current issues and agree on an overall outline.

I guess I'll give my say on the Gungans again. It sounds like there are some unspoken attitudes that need to come forth -- e.g. I would have no qualms taking good ideas from MagFan's edit. DarthPreston, you should get the AdMan JarJar dialogue for that cut because it really changes things-- Jar Jar is banished for losing the Gungan's Kaibar Crystal to the Naboo, not just for being clumsy. This change explains why he's outside the city and why it's a risk for him to take the Jedi to the city as well as why the Gungan hate the Naboo and why Amidala has no regard for the Gungan. Having the Jedi meet Boss Nass before they ask him to join the battle has clear value, if this sequence can be shaved down along these lines. This version of Jar Jar with the crystal pays off best in the final image of the film when Amidala gives that crystal back to Boss Nass. Finally, that pointless parade echo of the medal ceremony in Episode IV has some meaning. I don't want to give that up.

I never watched the MagFan JarJar dialogue, so I don't know if these are his ideas or AdMan's. But they work.

I agree the Gungan sequence is too long. I'd like to cut the planet core trip to nothing. Cut out the waterfall. But if we construct the intro of Jar Jar better, then the swim to his city can have a potent feeling of adventure-- it sets up things for later very well.

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On my own edit of Ep.1 I found cutting out all the Nemoidian scenes from the beginning sequence makes the whole thing more exciting and does away with a lot of bad Nemoidian dialogue. Of course if they are going to be subtitled I suppose it doesn't matter. But I really like the way the whole thing plays out when all we see is the two jedi landing, then being told by the droid to wait, then the droid returing to serve them tea (or whatever) then the ship blowing up, cut to the droids outside the room as the door opens, two sabers turn on, the two jedi cutting down droids, Qui-Gon cutting the door, the destroyer droids coming, jedi run, the door explodes from the impact of the droids blast, then cut to the back view of the two Nemoidians watching the jedi run from the destroyers. I think it adds a bit more mystery to them having the first time we see them being a brief over the shoulder glance shot. I thought it worked beautifully, just need to repair the music a little from the cutting and its great. Of course, the next scene we see they open their mouths and ruin it, but with redubbing it could add a lot to the start of the film.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Fascinating idea, C3PX.

I know we are going to keep the Nemoidians in there for this edit depends on them as the Main Badguys.

But just HOW -- well, I like the possibilities of staying with the Jedi and hadn't thought of it.

I know the invasion is going to happen more swiftly after Gunray talks to Amidala-- I'll be at the drawing board...

Edited: By the way, C3PX-- have you heard the Nemoidian dubs InfoDroid did? That stuff is pitch perfect. Nute Gunray is going to be a badass and he sounds like one now.

Nute is going to be aching to battle the Jedi-- itching for a fight, feeling up for killing two Jedi this morning. It's his underling who prevents this battle from occuring.

So I don't know if we can construct Nute as tough enough if we don't see him-- but maybe if the over the shoulder shots come sooner, building up to a reveal of Nute. It's worth looking at.

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Originally posted by: MTHaslett
InfoDroid-- Bless you for taking on the heavy lifting. I think I can speak for Commander Courage and say we'd be honored to contribute all we can to create our fantasy "Episode I" edit. The offer to host an online script is really helpful -- we just need to devise a way to get ourselves all onto the same page. If Commander and I are to be the chief architects, then it'd probably be most polite for us to work out the script and then post it scene by scene-ish. Some way for us to break the movie down to digestible chunks so that we communicate completely and quickly about what needs to be done.

So we still need to settle the current issues and agree on an overall outline.

I guess I'll give my say on the Gungans again. It sounds like there are some unspoken attitudes that need to come forth -- e.g. I would have no qualms taking good ideas from MagFan's edit. DarthPreston, you should get the AdMan JarJar dialogue for that cut because it really changes things-- Jar Jar is banished for losing the Gungan's Kaibar Crystal to the Naboo, not just for being clumsy. This change explains why he's outside the city and why it's a risk for him to take the Jedi to the city as well as why the Gungan hate the Naboo and why Amidala has no regard for the Gungan. Having the Jedi meet Boss Nass before they ask him to join the battle has clear value, if this sequence can be shaved down along these lines. This version of Jar Jar with the crystal pays off best in the final image of the film when Amidala gives that crystal back to Boss Nass. Finally, that pointless parade echo of the medal ceremony in Episode IV has some meaning. I don't want to give that up.

I never watched the MagFan JarJar dialogue, so I don't know if these are his ideas or AdMan's. But they work.

I agree the Gungan sequence is too long. I'd like to cut the planet core trip to nothing. Cut out the waterfall. But if we construct the intro of Jar Jar better, then the swim to his city can have a potent feeling of adventure-- it sets up things for later very well.


One of the things I really liked about the MagFan edit is the Kaiburr Crystal sub-plot. And while I myself would be a little leery about adding yet another sub-plot (there might be a pun in here somewhere) to the film, the idea of this Kaiburr Crystal would take care of a lot of footage that might have to be cut out otherwise.

I personally wouldn't want to see all the bongo footage cut. After Jar Jar's introduction to the Jedi, and he mentions that the humans have a city, Jar Jar could mention that he can take them there in a sub. We have a shot of the sub underwater and later surfacing in Theed. If they show up in Theed in the sub, then it might be important to show at least a glimpse of the journey. While the whole trip to the Gungan City is pointless (it's funny, because George cut the Analysis Droids from Episode 2 for the same reason, the scene started with nothing and ended with nothing). Maybe the Gungan city footage, or parts of it could be used later in an attempt to recover the Kaiburr Crystal.
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A few brief thoughts: C3PX opening sounds good.

Cutting the Gungan city is tempting for narrative speed but I think ultimately a streamlined version of it will serve the plot better - it will seem a lot better with Jar Jar & Nass dubbed or subbed (see BotF). Obviously only one "bigger fish" at most. The waterfall scene is both bad and pointless, it was well cut in the first place - I think some fan edits put it in just to seem different from the original.

Dooku in Ep I? I don't see how this won't seem tacked on, and distract from MTH's stand-alone ideal, which is a good one.

Maul = Grievous? No comment.

A special edition is a good idea, as it gives time to get one out, let the dust settle, and then be objective about what worked and what didn't.
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Thanks for laying down the law there, InfoDroid. Since you're doing the actual editing on this project, you'll have the final say on what direction all the ideas go. And yes, MTH could speak for me when he saud it's just an honor to contribute. I've said this before but we have the fun part of the job, brainstorming concepts we'd like to see. You and Trooperman have the grunt work, and we appreciate all you guys do.

Qui-Gon's dream: A good start, but I think it shows way too much. Things should be dark, obscured, and confusing. Ideally the dialouge would start while the screen was still black, then the pictures slowly fades in to Qui-Gon placing his hands on Anakin's shoulders. The "Anakin!" transitioning to Qui-Gon getting stabbed is prefectly unsettling. I'd cut the shot of Obi-Wan though. "Great or terrible things" I would change the visuals to winning the pod race and leading the Clonetrooper army respectively. And I know all the dialogue comes from Batman Begins, but where are we going with that? What purpose does it serve to his character, and is this Qui-Gon really talking to him or is he just imagining it? And is there a way to seperate the Ducard lines from the snap, crackle, and pop noises of the fire in the background? Padme saying "Anakin" (which is in the scene I believe) at the end of the dream, waking him up, would make for a better transition as well. Hope I don't sound too critical, I really enjoyed it and see many possibilities here, it just needs to be refined.

Glad you liked Narnia, great film. Though if we want to use any of the dialogue we may need to obtain a copy...before it is officially available fo you know what I mean.
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At the risk of flogging a dead horse...

Originally posted by: MTHaslett
Lying to Luke served what greater good? Did it prepare him to face Vader? Did it protect Luke?

Any presumption that Luke can't "handle the truth" flies in the face of everything Luke Skywalker does. The guy blows up the fu*king Death Star, I think he can handle an unpleasant truth about his father. Plenty of murderers have children. There is no statistical evidence that killers will have evil children who fall to the dark side. It's nonsense to say Luke is being "protected."

Hopefully, Obi-Wan is not a two-dimensional character. Whether his words to Luke were successful in protecting him or not has nothing to do with whether he would say them or not. At the time of their conversation, Luke had not yet blown up "the fu*king Death Star" and Ben couldn't use that as a judge of what he could or couldn't handle. Most murderers don't have supernatural powers. Even so, wards who are in a position to keep their children in the dark about their parent's wrongdoing often do so. Ben wasn't basing his choice of words on statistical evidence, but on his own feelings, right or wrong.

Ben felt responsible for Anakin's downfall and didn't want to be responsible for potentially leading Luke the same way. Maybe he was wrong to say what he did, but that doesn't mean it was out of character. After all, he'd been charged with watching over Luke specifically to keep him from Vader. Leia's message and it's consequences forced him to tell Luke more than he originally intended, and in the circumstances he would naturally be reticent to divulge all the secrets he'd been keeping for so many years.

Anyway, that's the way I see it.

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Originally posted by: THX
At the risk of flogging a dead horse...

Indeed-- but I am fascinated by this point personally...

Hopefully, Obi-Wan is not a two-dimensional character. Whether his words to Luke were successful in protecting him or not has nothing to do with whether he would say them or not. At the time of their conversation, Luke had not yet blown up "the fu*king Death Star" and Ben couldn't use that as a judge of what he could or couldn't handle. Most murderers don't have supernatural powers. Even so, wards who are in a position to keep their children in the dark about their parent's wrongdoing often do so. Ben wasn't basing his choice of words on statistical evidence, but on his own feelings, right or wrong.


"Successful in protecting him" from what? Obi Wan is made two dimensional by this explanation. There's nothing but convenience and justification in this explanation. And that's appropriate because Ben's not basing his choice of words on his feelings or on statistical evidence -- his choice of words is based on how the story was conceived WHEN VADER WAS NOT HIS FATHER. ESB changes that and makes us reevaluate what he says and how that scene plays. Now it plays that he has guarded Luke for his whole life and meditated on the Force. He meets Luke after Luke gets a message from Leia. He has a choice then to either treat Luke like an adult or to lie. He lies. He lies and it gains him nothing. And he never explains why he does it. If he's been shadowing Luke all his life, a three-dimensional Obi Wan would have some kind of accurate appraisal of what kind of man Luke is.

Ben felt responsible for Anakin's downfall and didn't want to be responsible for potentially leading Luke the same way. Maybe he was wrong to say what he did, but that doesn't mean it was out of character. After all, he'd been charged with watching over Luke specifically to keep him from Vader. Leia's message and it's consequences forced him to tell Luke more than he originally intended, and in the circumstances he would naturally be reticent to divulge all the secrets he'd been keeping for so many years.

Anyway, that's the way I see it.


What logic is there to this notion that telling Luke the truth will lead him down the dark side of his father? If there were any danger of Luke following his father's footsteps then special care to make sure he adjusts to the truth is the obvious and wise way to bring him up. Some day, presumably, he will have to face Vader. To set him up for a big fall, to set all his training on a bedrock of lies is stupid and foolish. Luke was never going to go to the dark side -- there was no way, until Vader makes his big reveal and shatters all Luke's confidence. Who's fault is that?

Obi Wan is an honorable, wise and heroic Jedi. If he lies to Luke and it gains him nothing, has no reason behind it, and leads him to give mealy mouthed excuses for it later -- it changes his character. It is not out of character for the "wet noodle" Obi Wan of the OT as is. It is out of character for the heroic Obi Wan of Star Wars '77 -- and the PT Obi Wan as well. There's nothing to indicate what you suggest-- he uses Leia's message as an excuse to tell Luke things he has long wanted to tell him, but which Owen prevented. As originally written, he's been itching to tell Luke these things for years -- I don't see how that's been changed. It's just the meaning of what he tells him and how a big piece of it is now a lie that's changed.

What's "natural" about choosing to tell Luke a giant lie? Being uncomfortable about the truth is natural. Telling a giant lie is a concscious choice which a Jedi would only make if it served a greater good. It has to serve a purpose. In the OT as is, it serves only the purpose of setting Luke up for a big fall.

Without a reason, the lie is a convenient bit of nonsense. If a reason were provided, such as I've suggested before, then the lie could be made understandable.

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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Qui-Gon's dream: A good start, but I think it shows way too much. Things should be dark, obscured, and confusing.

Okay. Can you give me an example of what you mean by this? Are talking about lowering the brightness level or what?

Ideally the dialouge would start while the screen was still black, then the pictures slowly fades in to Qui-Gon placing his hands on Anakin's shoulders. The "Anakin!" transitioning to Qui-Gon getting stabbed is prefectly unsettling. I'd cut the shot of Obi-Wan though. "Great or terrible things" I would change the visuals to winning the pod race and leading the Clonetrooper army respectively.

That's easily done. Yeah, I wasn't sure about that Obi-Wan shot, I'll take it out.

And I know all the dialogue comes from Batman Begins, but where are we going with that? What purpose does it serve to his character, and is this Qui-Gon really talking to him or is he just imagining it?

It's a mirror. It's Luke at the tree. This is Anakin's premonition that his life is about to change. The death of Qui-Gon is symbolic of the life Anakin is about to leave behind. It also gives him the courage to recognize what his fears are and conquer them to win the pod race. Is that the pseudo-psychological answer you needed?

And is there a way to seperate the Ducard lines from the snap, crackle, and pop noises of the fire in the background?


Believe me, if there was, I would've done it. But, I'm working on finding a way to separate the sound effects from the dialogue. Until then, if it makes you feel any better, just think of it as the sound of Qui-Gon's funeral pyre.

Padme saying "Anakin" (which is in the scene I believe) at the end of the dream, waking him up, would make for a better transition as well.


She doesn't say "Anakin". But I can make her say it. You're right, that would be better.

Hope I don't sound too critical, I really enjoyed it and see many possibilities here, it just needs to be refined.


But you do! REVEALED your opinion is! Commander, you should know by now I don't have a problem re-doing things until we get them right.

Glad you liked Narnia, great film. Though if we want to use any of the dialogue we may need to obtain a copy...before it is officially available fo you know what I mean.


Yes... I know what you mean. If you find any leads on that, let me know please.

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To answer your question, InfoDroid, the shots in particular I am referring to are Shmi at the beginning, Qui-Gon turning around in the desert, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, and Obi-Wan with the dead Qui-Gon. Too bright, too much, too revealing. I already suggested what changes to make in regards of the actual shots, which you seemed to agree with. I also just thought of a great transition: the wedding being the last shot of the dream, with Padme saying "Anakin", then repeating it as he wakes up. All that said, when using shots from other places, I would definitely darken the footage, put it through filters, and use alternate shots via reversing or utilizing and cropping the fullscreen DVD. The killing blow to Qui-Gon in particular would be served well by cropping a fullscreen shot to hide what exactly is going on.

And yes, you did provide the pseudo-psychological answer I was looking for.
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InfoDroid --

While I love this Anakin's Dream clip as a fan -- I don't believe it suits the film we're making. I mean to comment on the way this dream comes off, and not the impact it has. Actually, seeing this clip makes me think a dream will help the movie-- but not such an explicit montage of clips.

Trooperman's dream sequence is posted as screen-caps in the SOTD thread. He's doing his best to emulate the dreams from ROTS which work for what they're supposed to do.

Putting this much information in a dream for Anakin will create an imbalance. Why doesn't he mention a dream that's this clear?

I don't think we can have any image that's recognizable as a clip from the movie. I love the way you tweaked the images, by the way.

Let's talk about what this dream is supposed to accomplish, because to me it has to be something confusing and indeciferable as it happens and only become clear in hindsight. I think it might be as simple as blackness with Qui Gonn yelling "Anakin!!" then blending to Padme's voice of saying "Anakin" and waking him up. The real point I think we need to hammer home is the special connection Qui Gonn and Anakin have and the fact that Anakin is special and far more powerful than he realizes.

A premonition of Qui Gonn's death just can't be covered properly in the rest of the film. Remember, such dreams drive all Anakin's actions in SOTD and in ROTS. We can't just put another one in here and never refer to it again. Further, I don't see what tipping our hand about Qui Gonn's death gets us.

But getting into Anakin's head this way has a strong sense of value to it, so I want to support the idea of a dream -- just (and I apologize) not the way we're trying it right now.

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Okay...

Maybe we're not going about this the right way.

That's the last clip I'm posting until I have a script. Just tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it.

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Its interesting to say the least, there has to be some fixing on isolating the sound, its more of a montage sequence like for promotional use than for. Maybe its just me, but I dont see whats the use of putting the death sequence and future sequences.

I just didnt understand its purpose, sorry. It seems it would be great for viewers that have already seen the movie but it would really confuse alot of people seeing it for the first time especially children. And since you dont have a shot of Anakin sleeping to make a good transition to this sequence its even more confusing whats going on.
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Originally posted by: InfoDroid
Okay...

Maybe we're not going about this the right way.

That's the last clip I'm posting until I have a script. Just tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it.


InfoDroid, I completely agree that we can find a more productive way to work once we have a script. I am very afraid we're wasting your good will and good effort. Let's get a script together now for you to work from.

Here's what I propose: I've got a pretty good outline of the whole picture in my head. I need to solve a couple issues and get the outline posted up here. Once we have that to work from, let's create a script for just the first five minutes or so and let you get to work.

Then, while you're cutting that, we can work out the rest of the script by staying ahead of you and leaving you always equipped with stuff to do.

Does it bother you to work from the beginning to the end? Is there a place you'd prefer to start from?

I'll try to get that outline up asap!

I want to take a minute and thank you again for your great work and great ideas, InfoDroid.

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Sounds good, MTH.

It's just all of this aimless debate is starting to wear on me.

I fear that no matter what I churn out, whether good or bad, will never fit EVERYONE's expectations. I mean, we're still arguing the Obi-Wan lie! And I tried to lay that to rest two or three weeks ago. ...sigh...

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I'm eager to "officially" start as well, and it would seem chronologicially going through the film scene by scene is the best way to procede. Since MTH has everything mapped out already I guess I'll just go through and incorporate some of my own ideas if they aren't already present, as well as some of my differing viewpoints of course. Let's roll!

Yeah I know what you mean, ID. This is why MagnoliaFan works alone, and even Trooperman doesn't consult us on everthing. I think from here on out we should narrow it down to you, MTH, myself, and a few select others.
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I agree too -- I love hearing the other opinions, but (as with the Obi Wan lie thing) it's hard to tell the difference between discussing opinions and deciding what way this project is going.

The Obi Wan Lie thing has been a discussion of opinion to me-- sorry. I think the ultimate treatment of it was pushed back since it doesn't effect anything in Episode I or II. How it will be addressed in this Saga Bible was never decided as far as I knew-- but I agree with others that letting it stand and finding a way to justify it is probably the best way to go.

But the outline must come soon... stand by.

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Here's the outline I promised. Hope you can read it. It gets more detailed in the third act where things get very intercut and there are a lot of changes.

Remember, this is to be the story of Qui Gonn finding the chosen one and waking up the council.

This is very LOW resolution -- there are dozens of changes that go into each act beyond what you see here. This is just the general flow of things. And it should give us a place to start talking and getting a script together for the first five pages or so. That way, InfoDroid can start cutting real stuff and stop casting his pearls before swine. ;-)

A lot of the moments we need to create will come from close ups. These we can generate from cropping the full screen version. I want to do this for other reasons at literally dozens of places, so I hope you've got the full and widescreen versions, my friend. We'll help out if you don't.

Here 'tis (for now):

Star Wars Episode I: "Fate of the Jedi"

Act 1

Qui Gonn and Obi Wan fly to the Trade Federation starship.
Nute Gunray orders their execution, glad to kill some Jedi again as he used to.
The Jedi fight their way toward Nute, he's eager to face them, but the #2 Guy orders Destroyer droids to kill them and the Jedi run.
Nute talks to Queen Amidala -- threatens her. She says he's gone too far.
He starts his invasion -- the Jedi ride the ships down.
Qui Gonn saves Jar Jar
Jar Jar leads the Jedi to his city (no "on second thought"/"a thousand terrible things" beat).
(quickly)Boss Nass gives them a bongo and they head to Naboo
We hear Jar Jar's back story, but no giant fish grabs them

Nute's droids conquer Naboo.
Jar Jar and the Jedi arrive -- they search for the Queen and save her -- recut for more thrills.
They decide to leave and free the Queen's ship (brutal, no one talks to the droids)
They blast off and fly past the blockade -- saved by Artoo
Still in range of the starships, they decide to go to Tatooine and finally escape (keep tension high).

#2 Guy says "Oh no, she escaped" but Nute says he's already won. Besides... "She's never beyond my grasp..."

Act 2
Padme cleans artoo and meets Jar Jar. They land on Tatooine.
Tanaka tells Qui Gonn "take Padme to town" (moving dialogue so scene is inside ship)
Qui Gonn leads party into Mos Espos (Using Tatooine music, no dialogue)
Find Watoo's shop, Qui Gonn talks to Watoo out back
Inside: Anakin uses "force talk" to communicate with Padme. She's shocked.
Qui Gonn leaves with Padme and Jar Jar gets in trouble with Sebulba
Anakin saves Jar Jar -- Qui Gonn takes special notice of the boy.
(staying with Qui Gonn) A Sandstorm comes -- Anakin invites Qui Gonn to his house.
Qui Gonn meets Anakin's mom -- "very interesting" his eyes seem to say...

Maul/Grievous lands and sends out his probe droids.

Dinner scene -- Anakin offers to race for Qui Gonn's parts.
Anakin shows Padme C3P0 after dinner.

Qui Gonn goes back to Watoo -- makes a deal.
Obi Wan warns Qui Gonn, they're running out of time.
Anakin preps the pod racer (no convesation between Qui Gonn and Shmi here)
The probe droid searches through town...

The Race Day comes -- Qui Gonn advises Anakin to use the force.
The race begins
Anakin falls behind, but then starts to come back...
Qui Gonn feels Anakin's reaching out. He feels the boy's power.
Anakin wins the race -- celebration.

Nute (on walking throne) continues killing Naboo -- Glad to have his slave trade up and running again.

Qui Gonn goes to Watoo to collect his winnings: including (surprise) Anakin!

Probe droid returns to Maul/Greivous -- reports to him. He gets on his bike. He's coming...

Qui Gonn takes Anakin home to tell mom -- he's free. He'll be a Jedi!
Outside, Qui Gonn tells Shmi how special he is (will you be able to help him? -- footage from earlier)
Anakin says goodbye to threepio (truncated)
Anakin says goodbye to his mother and leaves (improved with tone poem, if possible)

Qui Gonn finds Probe droid, runs, Maul/Grievous attacks!
Maul sees Anakin for a moment, keeps fighting (don't know if we can do this)
Qui Gonn escapes. As they fly off, he explains "that thing" was trained in Jedi arts--
(cut the intro of Anakin to Obi Wan -- it's too upbeat) Fly away--

Mid Act 2 Break

Maul/Grievous reports to Gunray in the palace by trasmission. Nute's stoic, but clearly not thrilled.
Padme sees message about Naboo, gets token from Anakin (more music; more quiet/almost no talk)

They all arrive at Coruscant and split in 2 groups.
Amidala talks to Palpatine about their options
Amidala confronts the Senate and votes down the Chancellor

Qui Gonn faces the council, introduces the idea of Anakin
The Council tests Anakin
Qui Gonn and Obi Wan talk on the balcony at sunset -- The sun sets.
The Council tells Qui Gonn they will not train Anakin. Tell him to go find the Sith.

Palpatine becomes Chancellor, but Amidala tells him she's going home.
On landing deck, Qui Gonn tells Anakin about the Sith as they prepare to go back to Naboo.
They take off--

Act 3
Qui Gonn warns he can't fight a war for Amidala. She calls on Jar Jar. Cut to:
ON NABOO--Jar Jar comes out of the water, says "Not there. I know where to go"
(cut the Qui Gonn/Obi Wan-stare-in-the-distance-talking scene)
Amidala reveals herself to Boss Nass -- new ally
Queen reveals her plan -- Qui Gonn tunes out, disappointed (don't even explain the whole thing-- show him disinterested and bring up somber music). Amidala is brave, but this is hopeless...
(Cut the Jar Jar is a general scene)


Droids report to Nute that an army is amassing. He orders his droids to engage.
He tells Maul/Grievous to look out for the Jedi.

The Gungans approach through the mist and stand ready.
The droid army greets them. -- they open fire. They deploy the soldiers.
Amidala and the Jedi invade Naboo -- BoOm! (no "laser-pen" signals, please?)
Nute Gunray's #2 convinces him to leave the castle and return to the starship.

The soldiers march on the Gungans and slaughter begins.
The Jedi fight into the hanger and free the pilots.
Starfighters take off.
Anakin gets in a starfighter.
Qui Gonn tells Anakin to stay put -- uses "force talk" to reassure him.
Maul/Grievous arrives. Amidala splits off.
Anakin defeats the destroyer droids -- flies off (we need a Qui Gonn reaction shot).

Qui Gonn battles Maul/Grievous
The slaughter on the battlefield continues -- we only see Jar Jar once maybe.
Anakin flies aimlessly up, then sees the battle and heads for it.
Nute Arrives on the droid ship and finds out the battle is going great. He loves the ships exploding around him.
Amidala attacks the castle -- unaware there's no one left to catch...
Qui Gonn fights --
The Gungans are captured.
Amidala's captured.


Anakin flies into the battle (and we put almost all the space footage into this one sequence)
Qui Gonn reaches out to Anakin (intercut close-ups) and guides him into the battle.
(Use as much Anakin footages as possible- cover Anakin lip-flap with whispers to himself which we record-- "reach out with my feelings... let go...")
Qui Gonn fights -- gets separated from Obi Wan by red shields--
Anakin roars into the droid ship and stalls...
Meditating; Qui Gonn "tells" Anakin to reach out and see his surroundings.
Anakin tries to get the ship going again...
The red shield lets Qui Gonn fight-- Maul/Grievous kills Qui Gonn
Obi Wan screams
Anakin feels it. He screams! Qui Gonn yells in Anakin's head: "Anakin!"

Nute gets a report that the war is over-- Amidala is captured.

Obi-Wan gets out and fights-- gets knocked into the tube.
Qui Gonn lies on the ground --
Anakin, pissed, hearing Qui Gonn yell in his head, fires the guns and the torpedoes --

Nute feels the ship shake and it begins to explode
Other ships see it exploding from the inside -- Anakin's in trouble...

Obi Wan jumps up and kills Maul/Grievous

Anakin flies out of the exploding ship; just in time.
Nute and Nemoidians die.
The droids fail. Amidala frees herself with guns in her throne room.
Heading home, Anakin hears the Qui Gonn tone poem...
As it finishes, Obi Wan holds Qui Gonn and promises to train Anakin
A last shot of Anakin flying home...

Denoument:

The Chancelor's ship arrives. Palpatine greets Amidala and Anakin
Yoda tells Obi Wan that Anakin will be his apprentice
From Anakin's p.o.v-- we see Qui Gonn's funeral pyre. No talk to Obi Wan.
Yoda tells Mace "there is another" -- pan to Palaptine.
Final Parade -- See Anakin With Obi Wan in Jedi garb.
Amidala gives Crystal back to Boss Nass.

THE END.