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The inaccuracies in "How Star Wars Was Saved in the Edit"

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You all may be familiar with the famous RocketJump video of their discussion as how “Star Wars was saved in the Edit” which painted a very specific narrative about Lucas and his editors, and how the editors basically saved Stat Wars, which wasn’t actually the case and is more complicated than the narrative told in the video.

Furthermore most of the claims made by RocketJump seem to have vague basis to actual truth, and the video itself is not all that objective of the information.

Just recently, I watched a video by “Nerdonymous” debunking some of the claims from RocketJump, and although the overall tone of the video seems to be a bit “ad hominem” in making fun of RocketJump, he actually makes fair points and assumptions based from sources such as Rinzler’s ebooks, Making-Of books and other material.

I suggest you guys to give it a watch, its 2-hours long (mostly due to the editing of how Nerdonymous likes to hone in on RocketJump’s use of words) but its worth a watch:

EDIT: Upon further watching of this video, although Nerdnonymous did point out some inaccuracies and errors in the way RocketJump simplified certain event lines and general misinformation, they are few and far between the amount of actual ad hominem that he constantly does and the amount of contradiction he makes to the point of hypocrisy in terms of misrepresenting information, I think the video dives moreso on mocking the channel, rather than actually providing an objective, unbiased view of the video itself.

I shouldn’t have made this thread while watching the video, as I first made it within like 10 minutes of his 2-hour long rant when he actually brought up a point of the mix-up of RocketJump and J.W Rinzler’s information of Brian De Palma’s involvement in the creation of the crawl, and which crawl was which in the shooting script, third and fourth drafts and the final version. The further I went on in the video, the more confused I became, especially as he tried to convince the audience about how the “Rough Cut” was better than the Theatrical cut, because that was Lucas’ vision, but that isn’t the case apparently because it was edited wrong and the final version is Lucas’ Vision?

He also tries to defend the deleted scenes, and only apart from the conference scene, which only kinda vaguely works in introducing the Force first before Obi-Wan does it, the majority of his opinions are wrapped up in layers of contradiction solely to belittle RocketJump and make him look wrong at every turn.

On the topic of who “really saved Star Wars” it is a complicated question to answer in and of itself, as every producer, editor, propsman, could’ve helped in contributing in the success and/or failure of this experimental sci-fantasy film and was a combination of Lucas, the editors, the producers, and even the actors themselves on fixing the wooden dialogue on the script, that Star Wars became… Star Wars.

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Correct. He did a lot of research clearly which is really awesome. And it proves that RocketJump wasn’t exactly being genuine in his portrayal of Lucas and the making of the movie.

I’ve discussed this video with people here before, and people got upset about it. And yeah, the guy can be passive aggressive and somewhat mean, which is a problem, but a lot of the points are still valid. I can understand being mad about slander and misinformation about something you love at the same time though. People getting upset at the video was also probably partially due to the way I talked about it, due to my explosive nature. I think you’ll get a lot better reception as you’re way cooler and more level-headed and this post is much more objective.

Ultimately I think the original RocketJump video gained a lot of traction because people really want an answer to, “What happened to the Lucas that directed the original trilogy?/WTF happened with the prequels?” question. Which is understandable and very relatable. I felt that during my latest rewatch. But to take on a mindset that it must’ve been because George Lucas was just never good is not the answer. The real answer is definitely way more complex.

I ship Spideychelle (MCU Peter and MJ) and Tomdaya (Tom Holland and Zendaya)
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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Isn’t this already discussed at length in here:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/RocketJumps-Video-on-Star-Wars-being-saved-in-the-edit-is-Literally-a-Lie-no-it-is-not/id/84279/page/1

If that is the same video then it is a brave thing to post on here considering it shits on fan preservations and fan edits in the 15 minute summary at the end. Rocket Jump talking about the Special Editions, George Lucas making “tons of unnecessary changes”, and the unaltered theatrical cuts being the version of the films that won the Oscar for best editing, really seemed to trigger Nerdonymous.

And so Nerdonymous went on another rant about fans who didn’t like what George did with the Special Editions, or prefer the unaltered theatrical cut, somehow want to “take everything away from Lucas” and “burn Lucas to the ground”. Because some people did a video talking about the power of editing film and how it can have a big effect in general, this film especially? And Nerdonymous thinks that the Rocket Jump video is somehow an “attack video” and an attempt to discredit George Lucas? He had droned on for 2 hours, and often repeated himself, so it was difficult to stay focused. He really needs a good editor. Anyone know of any?
 

G&G-Fan said:

Correct. He did a lot of research clearly which is really awesome. And it proves that RocketJump wasn’t exactly being genuine in his portrayal of Lucas and the making of the movie.

I’ve discussed this video with people here before, and people got upset about it. And yeah, the guy can be passive aggressive and somewhat mean, which is a problem, but a lot of the points are still valid. I can understand being mad about slander and misinformation about something you love at the same time though. People getting upset at the video was also probably partially due to the way I talked about it, due to my explosive nature. I think you’ll get a lot better reception as you’re way cooler and more level-headed and this post is much more objective.

You got schooled hard in that thread. Sorry, I didn’t see anyone in there upset apart from you, the like minded troll, and some weird claims from you about the Rocket Jump video, like “So uh, yeah… Goerge Lucas didn’t suck and it wasn’t the editors that created Star Wars”, getting taken apart.

Then the 2 hour Nerdonymous video also got taken apart in there.

Like I said above, I think it was a brave thing to post that Nerdonymous video on here considering it shits on fan preservations and fan edits. Brave or stupid or maybe naive, if you thought nobody would call that part of the video out. No disrespect, just saying it like I see it.

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Oh I see. I didn’t fully finish the video when I made the post, so I didnt get to the part where he was talking about fan preservations. I guess he probably took it too far. Do I delete the thread or something?

EDIT: I finished the video and yeah… there are some things that kind of make it more like a sensationalist hit-piece than an unbiased take on RocketJump’s video. Although he does point out the inaccuracies and ““narrative””(?) RocketJump is making, from the perspective of Nerdnonymous? I honestly think he’s done more bickering than actual evidence.

I edited the post and post title to reflect my current thoughts.

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It feels like this is a cycle that’s doomed to repeat. Someone starts watching the video, recommends it on here, then reconsiders after watching more of it.

This Nerdonymous does a lot of research, but he has a serious chip on his shoulder that gets in the way of his videos having any value.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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That one uber prequel apologist, So Uncivilized, lost all credibility for me when he championed Nerdonymous’ video.

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BedeHistory731 said:

That one uber prequel apologist, So Uncivilized, lost all credibility for me when he championed Nerdonymous’ video.

You mean the one who did a video that basically said “Sure, the prequels’ dialogue is awful, but that makes it memorable, so you aren’t allowed to criticize it”, but stretched out to 10 minutes long? Yeah, he had no credibility to me from the very beginning.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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Marooned Biker Scout said:

Like I said above, I think it was a brave thing to post that Nerdonymous video on here considering it shits on fan preservations and fan edits. Brave or stupid or maybe naive, if you thought nobody would call that part of the video out. No disrespect, just saying it like I see it.

As if that snide comment about fan-edits and preservations was ever the main topic of the video (which I obviously disagree with due to being on the forum in the first place).

I ship Spideychelle (MCU Peter and MJ) and Tomdaya (Tom Holland and Zendaya)
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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G&G-Fan said:

Correct. He did a lot of research clearly which is really awesome. And it proves that RocketJump wasn’t exactly being genuine in his portrayal of Lucas and the making of the movie.

I’ve discussed this video with people here before, and people got upset about it. And yeah, the guy can be passive aggressive and somewhat mean, which is a problem, but a lot of the points are still valid. I can understand being mad about slander and misinformation about something you love at the same time though. People getting upset at the video was also probably partially due to the way I talked about it, due to my explosive nature. I think you’ll get a lot better reception as you’re way cooler and more level-headed and this post is much more objective.

Ultimately I think the original RocketJump video gained a lot of traction because people really want an answer to, “What happened to the Lucas that directed the original trilogy?/WTF happened with the prequels?” question. Which is understandable and very relatable. I felt that during my latest rewatch. But to take on a mindset that it must’ve been because George Lucas was just never good is not the answer. The real answer is definitely way more complex.

I remember shitting on you really hard about this video. I’m a lot more suspicious of this anti-George Lucas narrative that became so popular in the fandom than I was when you made that post. It feels really shitty to change my mind about something I was so opinionated on before, but I really feel like I watched Nerdonymous’s video with a hostile mindset and could only find errors in his refusal to treat RocketJump in good faith. But does RocketJump deserve good faith? Treating people with good people is a virtue, so maybe, but RocketJump’s video makes so many factual errors that he kind of has no credibility. The argument between Nerdonymous and RocketJump should be framed as someone who did their research vs someone who, at best, has no idea what they’re talking about, not as two equals both presenting valid viewpoints.

I originally disliked how Nerdonymous’s video didn’t make a strong, central argument to refute RocketJump, instead just being two hours of pointing out dumb shit RocketJump said, but the point here is to undermine RocketJump’s credibility: Here he is making pretty lofty claims discrediting George Lucas of Star Wars’s success, and he can’t even get basic facts right. Nerdonymous implies that RocketJump is a Disney shill or that the fans of this video are Disney shills, which I didn’t like at the time, and I still don’t see how you could ever prove that RocketJump had any connection to Disney or Disney promoted it. But it’s kind of obvious to me now how much RocketJump’s video was muddying the waters, and it’s extremely hard to believe someone who’s as clearly intelligent as RocketJump was just overzealous and ran a story based on mistaken and/or completely fabricated information. I don’t blame Nerdonymous for connecting the dots and blaming Disney, although there’s no evidence for that and literally all it takes to make a video like this is one guy still seething over the Special Editions.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

Because some people did a video talking about the power of editing film and how it can have a big effect in general, this film especially?

Come on. Let’s be real, that’s not what this video was. It’s not the takeaway you were meant to get from this video. It’s not why it got popular either, and it’s not what people reference it for. Do you really think Nerdonymous just randomly attacked RocketJump’s innocent video about “the power of editing film”? Even if trying to discredit George Lucas is a total accidental message that RocketJump did not intend to put in his video, come on, we need to look a little more critically about the messages in the media we’re consuming. You’re being extremely forgiving. The message is definitely there, and considering how many people have picked up on this message and used this video to argue against George Lucas deserving credit for Star Wars’s success, it deserves to be taken seriously.

Like I said above, I think it was a brave thing to post that Nerdonymous video on here considering it shits on fan preservations and fan edits.

That pissed me off too. I’m a member of this community and I didn’t appreciate being shit on like that. But can you really blame an outsider for thinking these things about us? 99% of the early fanediting scene was driven by George Lucas seethe, and while we constantly talk about the preservation of Star Wars’s cultural legacy, something which is extremely important, you have to admit George Lucas seethe is embedded in these preservationist communities. Anti-Lucas revisionism is more of a problem here than Pro-Lucas revisionism is in the general population. If we want to be act like someone who has a deep admiration for Lucas shitting on us is an unfair thing to do, maybe we should stop shitting on George Lucas so much.

Especially because, if Star Wars’s cultural heritage is what we want to say we’re here for, and not just because we’re still seething about the Special Editions, we need to keep in mind that George Lucas has contributed far, far more to Star Wars’s cultural heritage than he’s destroyed. It’s a shame that he destroyed some of it. But he literally made Star Wars. Can we have some perspective?

We’re at a point in time where our fiction is as soulless and hollow as ever because we shit on visionary storytellers like George Lucas. The creativity and passion that went into the OT which is now rare if not absent from modern filmmaking is more important to Star Wars’s cultural legacy than whether or not Han shot first, and considering that Disney has done nothing but give us what we ask for, it was us who destroyed it.

Anyway, I apologize to you G&G Fan. I was wrong about what I said, and it’s embarrassing to look at the original thread and see myself defending a viewpoint which I really think should have been obvious how wrong it was. I’m feeling that way more and more about the shit I’ve said on the internet years past. Although Nerdonymous’s major chip on his shoulder really does make the video fucking suck.

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SparkySywer said:

Anyway, I apologize to you G&G Fan. I was wrong about what I said, and it’s embarrassing to look at the original thread and see myself defending a viewpoint which I really think should have been obvious how wrong it was. I’m feeling that way more and more about the shit I’ve said on the internet years past. Although Nerdonymous’s major chip on his shoulder really does make the video fucking suck.

You’re good man. I’ll think about messages I’ve sent here before that just make me cringe (me bending over backwards to defend the Prequels, like my old Yoda thread). I’ve funnily gone from one of the biggest Prequel defenders on the forum to agreeing with a lot of people’s issues, even if I still enjoy ROTS a lot (tho I’ve changed my mind about it being better then ANH; ANH is awesome). My last rewatch of the saga had me saying a lot of the stuff OT fans say. I used to use Rick fucking Worley videos to support my points before coming to the inevitable realization that he’s an egotistical idiot (probably should’ve been tipped off by him slandering Marvel; the MCU is awesome, I will take no sass). Sometimes I’ve exploded in ways that are just embarrassing to look back at, too.

But in the end we all grow and change and evolve.

I ship Spideychelle (MCU Peter and MJ) and Tomdaya (Tom Holland and Zendaya)
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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G&G-Fan said:

SparkySywer said:

Anyway, I apologize to you G&G Fan. I was wrong about what I said, and it’s embarrassing to look at the original thread and see myself defending a viewpoint which I really think should have been obvious how wrong it was. I’m feeling that way more and more about the shit I’ve said on the internet years past. Although Nerdonymous’s major chip on his shoulder really does make the video fucking suck.

You’re good man. I’ll think about messages I’ve sent here before that just make me cringe (me bending over backwards to defend the Prequels, like my old Yoda thread). I’ve funnily gone from one of the biggest Prequel defenders to agreeing with a lot of people’s issues, even if I still enjoy ROTS a lot (tho I’ve changed my mind about it being better then ANH; ANH is awesome). My last rewatch of the saga had me saying all the same stuff most OT fans say. I used to use Rick fucking Worley videos to support my points before coming to the inevitable realization that he’s an egotistical idiot (probably should’ve been tipped off by him slandering Marvel; the MCU is awesome, I will take no sass). Sometimes I’ve exploded in ways that are just embarrassing to look back at, too.

But in the end we all grow and change and evolve.

I know how you feel, man. I used to be a MauLer fan and thought that Rick Worley was right about everything. I used to get way too worked up arguing about these movies, and it’s pretty embarrassing, looking back. Life’s too short for all that. I still like the prequels, but I agree with a lot of the criticisms about them, and I still dislike the sequels, but I’m not going to try to argue that they’re “objectively” bad or whatever. There’s no point to that.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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Hell, I too cringe at my r/SaltierThanKrayt act on here. This isn’t some awful hive of reactionaries just because they don’t like the new media coming out (save for a few posters who aren’t here anymore). This place doesn’t have that same “poisoned well” as YouTube or Reddit and it’s not worth it fighting political conflicts over a mediocre TV show.

Life’s too short and why be angry about that? I’ve also quit Reddit for the most part, which has improved my mood drastically. Message boards are much better.