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The definitive list: changes you can and can't stand...

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Let me make it plain that, first, I grew up with the originals as well. Not a child of the 80's, but I was watching the trilogy long before the SE. I did most of my growing up prior to 1997 anyway. And hopefully you people won't have me banned, but I adore the prequels. Not because they're (supposedly) better as the OT, not even because they're even as-good as the OT (Hell, even the SE-OT is better on its worst moments than the PT), but because they're fun, they're backstory, and maybe I'm more tolerant than other fans. For me, it was never a competition. The PT didn't have to be better than the OT. And if they aren't, I'm not going to curse Lucas' name.

And though I don't need the OOT or will even particularly prefur them over the SE-OT, I do agree that the OOT must be released onto DVD in respectable form. The SE-OT is, for all intents and purposes, a trilogy of remakes. It would be simply ludicris to release the 1999 version of The Haunting and disreguard the existance of the original. And then let it be a substandard release after years? I'm sorry, no. Even IF the remake was as good as the original, you don't do that.

Even when the OOT gets released with good transfers and an anamorphic upgrade, I'll still stick to Lucas' newer vision for watching the saga. I'll be more than happy to own the OOT, though.

Which brings me to my larger point. I want each person here to detail their definitive (as of the '04 set....) list of the changes/additions to the OT that they both can and cannot stand, or even like, as the case may be.

Star Wars

I haven't got a problem with most of the changes. A few are even an improvement, I feel. The biggest problem I have, though, is CGI trying to fit into 30 year old footage. It's completely rediculous. Like the Jabba scene. Even though it's repetative, I could stand it if Jabba looked convincing. He doesn't. I'm sorry, George. Try again next release! The Dewback in the background as the heroes enter the cantina? It's CG now. I'd be able to live with that, but the damn thing MAKES NOISE. Way to be subtle, there, George. Draw our eyes RIGHT to the big fake thing.

Overblown. That describes most of the changes to ANH. The comedy, such as the Jawa falling off the Ronto (spare me!) and the droids fighting at the start of the new Mos Eisley establishing shot, are totally unecessary (as are 99% of ANH's changes) and, frankly, lame. The CG stuff on the Tatooine sections stick out like a sore thumb, and all I think were good/needed changes are the fixing of the (vaseline) underside for the Landspeeder and the new low-shot of the Landspeeder from behind (as they heard toward Eisley, just after the "wretched hive" scene). Also the new shot of the Sandcrawler coming over a ridge on the way to the Lars homestead was a much-welcomed change.

I can tolerate Greedo shooting first. Not that it isn't stupid, mind you. But I can't accept it at this time because it is so unbelievably bad, effects-wise.

The only other worthy change in ANH was the new Death Star battle stuff. Here we go, some CG that ISN'T obvious. Watching the original Battle of Yavin now, it's so slow and unbearable. Though it's practically a big slap in the face to the hard work of ILM from back in the day. Unfortunately, some shots in the trench still look fake-ish and motion controlly.

The Empire Strikes Back

I don't have a problem with any of these changes, actually. They're few-and-far between. Necessary? None of it was. Wait, I take my statement back. Re-using the landing shot from ROTJ for Vader landing on the Executor was lame as hell.

My only other problem with the film lies in Lowry's shitty remastering job for the DVD: Vader's pink saber. It helps take away from the kick ass Luke/Vader fight.

Return of the Jedi

I have to comment about the DVD restoration that made my jaw drop: the fixing of the matte lines around the Rancor. A very welcomed fix!

Okay, the Sarlacc.... why did it have to be so in-our-face? It would be more tolerable if it didn't make any noise but, alas....

Once again, Vader's pink saber... why, Lowry.... why? And this time, it's murky!

Oh wait, let's step back for a little bit.... "Jedi Rocks"? Good f-ing God. I have to skip this EVERY time. The only time I've been embarrassed to be watching a Star Wars film! And what was wrong with the original song? That song was kick ass!

Okay, now the Ewok celebration... the only thing I can't stand about it is the new song. It doesn't mesh with the beginning of the end credits, whereas the original Williams piece flowed right into the big Star Wars theme blast that opens the end credits!

Christiansan as the force ghost? Dumb, and a big slap in the face of Sebastian Shaw. But I can let it go.


...Okay, your guys' turn...

I can live with 80% of the SE additions. I even like the PT (overall). But not releasing the OOT in respectable condition? That's unacceptable.

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The changes I can't stand: Those made after 1983.

I don't mean to crap all over your thread. At one point, I would've enjoyed making a list of what I would pick and choose from each edition (excluding DVD) to make the "perfect" Star Wars. But nowadays -- for the sake of brevity and consistency -- I find purism to be the best philosophy. Leave in all the jump cuts, matte lines, dupe grain, and all that vaseline on the lens. The authentic Star Wars is worth it.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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I agree. (Shouldn't this thread be in the Theatrical Cuts vs. Special Edition forum anyway?) As I said in another thread, the only changes that I actually like are the inclusion of the Biggs scene and the music at the end of ROTJ. I wouldn't prefer them over the originals, but they're the only changes that I like. And the new Battle of Yavin stuff wasn't bad. Still prefer the originals.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Good question. I've hated and resented the special editions for so long, it's hard to supress my bitchy kneejerk impulse, but I'll give it a shot.

Star Wars-there's about 10 brief shots in the death star battle, specifically during the initial dive, Luke-saves-Biggs, and Wedge-saves-Luke that feel like genuine, subtle improvements over their predecessors. Those painted people on the side of the throne room at the end? Fixing them was good. It's nice for that iconic shot to be just right.

Empire-Recompositing the snowspeeders was nicely done.

Jedi-the Rancor scene looks significantly better. I think the speeder bikes and stuff in the space battle were recomposited, too. They look good.
I think that's it.
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Let me begin by saying that I thought a majority of the changes were good, but the bad changes were so bad I wish we had none at all. That said:


Star Wars


The Good

- New Battle of Yavin footage. Really helped build the tension before the battle began, and during the battle the new footage was exciting

- The Biggs scene. Helps make the battle more personal, more tragic when Biggs dies.

- New Mos Eisley. Looks more like a bustling spaceport.

The Bad

- Jabba. The new scene just screams "Is this really necessary?" And what gangster lets one of his flunkies STEP ON HIS TAIL?? If Al Capone had a tail, I wouldn't have stepped on it for any amount of money. Oh and Boba Fett, yes, we can see you.

- Antics in New Mos Eisley. I liked the improved city, but did we need any of that slapstick?

The Ugly

- Greedo shooting. Just an appalling intrusion onto a perfect scene.



The Empire Strikes Back


The Good

- Bespin. Looks better, more populous.

The Bad

- The Emperor's new scene. All they had to do here was have Ian McDiarmid say the exact same dialogue Clive Revill said. Didn't even get that right. And the new hologram was too bright. Man, Lucas could screw up a two-car funeral.

The Ugly

- "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival." Yuck! How is that overly verbose, flat delivery any different from, "I am having a cavity filled, work out a convenient appointment date with the dentist."? The original scene was light-years better, and this change horribly marrs the picture.


Return of the Jedi

The Good

- Rancor Scene. Still doesn't look right, but it looks more believable than ever.

- Ending music. Many disagree, but this new song is much, much better than before.

The Bad

- The "Jedi Rocks" music video. Now, one bad song replaced another, so who cares about the song. But the new "performance"? Give me a break. We get it George, your CGI is "fabuloso".

- The Sarlacc beak. Completely stupid.

The Ugly

- That actor from "Shattered Glass" standing in the place of Anakin Skywalker. That, along with the horribly convoluted bullshit explanation about Anakin dying in ROTS (so who the hell threw Palpatine down the shaft, then?) makes me mourn all of this amazing technology we abuse today.

In defense of Mannequin Skywalker, he didn't even know that shot was going to be used in the movie. Then again, considering how well he does act, that's probably a good thing.

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The only changes I can accept are:

Star Wars: the Biggs scene that was added back was cool. Some of the restored dialogue "Close the Blast Doors" and Threepio's tractor beam line.

Empire Strikes Back: No changes, was a perfect film to begin with.
The way the final scenes were hacked up to show Darth Vader arriving on the Super Star Destroyer were ridiculous. And losing "Good thing you don't taste very good" was just criminal

Return of the Jedi: No changes, but the film isn't perfect. Nothing in the special edition version was perfect either. Could do with some major re-editing/truncation during the Han Solo rescue from Jabba's Palace sequence. Actually prefer the uplifting yub-nub song to the new one.

Star Wars 1977-1983

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LeoneNut's Edits

YouTube Clips

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It's just that Asian dancer in Jedi Rocks. Why did they have to put my favorite kind of person in such a horrible scene, where she can get dissed so easily? Damn you Chefelf!

Other than that, I actually don't mind any of the changes, except for the color correction (i.e. Vader's saber pink, and C-3PO almost silver in some shots.)
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Some of the restored dialogue "Close the Blast Doors" and Threepio's tractor beam line.


But those aren't "changes" in the context of O-OT vs. SE vs. DVD. They were there since 1977, albeit perhaps not in the mix you're used to hearing.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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There is a similar thread here that you may be interested in seeing:here

The list of the SE changes I hate is too long to put here. Basically, I hate EVERY change in SW, ESB and ROTJ EXCEPT for the addition of the Luke/Biggs scene in SW.

I don't mind the "cleanup" stuff, since I don't regard those as "changes" but part of the restoration.

I have no problem with classic films being restored- I just have a problem with them being altered.

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The ONLY changes that I can tolerate are the inclusion of elements that were originally shot as part of the original production, like the Biggs scene, and the Jabba scene, though it is horribly executed in terms of animation. Original footage is fine. Anything that was done on a computer more than a decade after the fact...aside from film restoration, is utterly unacceptable to me. I don't even like the 5.1 mixes.
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All I will say is I don't know why everybody likes the Biggs scene. In the last part of the 4th act, you do not add a new character ... and it's stupid to slow down the rapidly ramping-up action of battle readiness. The change in pacing to this importantly-paced part of the film makes this addition lame in my view.


Oh, and getting rid of Yub-Nub? Sorry, but sacrilege. Dropping Lapti Nek may have been the most ruinous of a formerly good scene, but nixing Yub-Nub was just plain WRONG.



Those are the areas in which I appear to disagree with most fans. I'm right on target with every other popular like and dislike, though.
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Cons: Anything after 1997. Greedo shooting was bad enough, Han stepping on Jabba's tail was over the top, and Hayden in place of Shaw was completely over the line. We didn't need Boba in the first movie and we REALLY didn't need him to look straight at the camera! The Sarlacc didn't need that stupid ala Little Shop of Horrors either (not knocking that movie, just the beak in ROTJ). The Emperor didn't need changing and neither did the speech. Jedi Rocks blows and Yub Nub will always be my fav.

Pros: The cleanup. That's about the only thing about the SEs that I liked. That and Cloud City being more open was a nice touch. I kind of liked the additional Bigg's scene, but I also agree that he shouldn't have been introduced at that point. It adds a little to his character, but not enough that anyone besides a core fan (reads the books and all that) will care anymore about him. Luke's scream at the end of ESB was tolerable but unnecessary (I always felt he was at peace when he let go). I do like the new end song in ROTJ, but Yub Nub is still my favorite.

Any other changes after the 1997 SEs were completely unnecessary.
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You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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I'd still prefer my Star Wars without the Biggs scene, and I agree with the reasons Obi Jeewhyen doesn't think it fits. While I think it's one of the better additions, I definitely understand why it originally ended on the cutting room floor.

And, damn, I'd forgotten about that stupid scream. Glad that's gone. Just sounded retarded and nothing like Luke (gee, I wonder why... it seems only two types of screams exist in the Galaxy Far Far Away, and that's the Emperor and Good Old Wilhelm. Everyone else is just a carbon copy of them.)

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Yub Nub all the way. Not because it's a great song, cuz well, it ain't. For better or worse, that IS Return of the Jedi. The song matches the rest of a muppet-heavy, kid-friendly movie. That pan-flute-Yanni-new-age-aromatherapy-fuck fest is the least Star Warsy music ever.
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^ HaHaHaHahahahahahahahaaaa!




But for the record, though it pains me to admit it, I think the SE version of the Battle of Yavin is so much better (not only visually, but far more clear as to what's happening) that - while I don't have a personal fan-edit of Star Wars, I always change to the SE for the finale of the movie.

Ack, I'm a purist hypocrit !!!

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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
All I will say is I don't know why everybody likes the Biggs scene. In the last part of the 4th act, you do not add a new character ... and it's stupid to slow down the rapidly ramping-up action of battle readiness. The change in pacing to this importantly-paced part of the film makes this addition lame in my view.


Oh, and getting rid of Yub-Nub? Sorry, but sacrilege. Dropping Lapti Nek may have been the most ruinous of a formerly good scene, but nixing Yub-Nub was just plain WRONG.


Yeah, except that Biggs was introduced already...sort of...by being a rebel pilot. To see that he had a personal relationship with Luke makes his death more profound.

I agree with you about the Yub-Nub song though. The removal of that song is my most hated change to the trilogy, and it really ended the whole theatrical re-release on a bad note (pun intended) for me.

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I guess I'm in the minority by very much preferring the new celebration song at the end of ROTJ. I've always disliked the whiny Yub-Nub, and I was almost getting worried Lucas might edit in Barney the Dinosaur at the end there to chime in with the muppet show singing goodbye. My ideal version of the ending would be the new song with the old Endor only celebrations. (The CGI and particularly Hayden is atrocious.)

As for Lapti Nek and Jedi Rocks, I've never cared much for either song. Again though, the new SE CGI for this scene is intrusive and annoying at best, so in the end I'll opt for Lapti Nek here.
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Wouldn't it be great if when Hayden appears as Anakin at the end of ROTJ, Luke frowns and yells to Obi-Wan: "Who the Hell is that?"

I know that's what I'D be saying. If my dad looked like Sebastian Shaw when I pulled his mask off and his ghost appeared as a kid I'd never seen before, I know I'd be confused as all-hell.

I can live with 80% of the SE additions. I even like the PT (overall). But not releasing the OOT in respectable condition? That's unacceptable.

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I don't care for any of the added stuff really. I like the Biggs bit, but the cut and the person walking across the screen during that bit bug me.

It was a flawed jem for me before. I watched it at release in the cinema and later on TV, and the matt lines, boxes and stuff were all part of its charm. That later they could do effects without those lines and boxes etc really was irrelevant. It was state of the art then. Perhaps I could understand some changes that meshed seamlessly with the previous work, but most of what was done sticks out and was done so half-arsed that its really hard to enjoy those bits, even if you want to. And when I'm sitting there watching it with my 3 yo daughter, I really want to just ignore those parts, like Han jerking around with Greedo and Jabba, but I can't. She really loves the start of ROTJ with the whole Jabba's palace / Rancor bit , all the way up to them leaving after the barge explodes, and it kinda peeves me that she will think something is wrong with a Sarlacc that doesn't have a beak. Ohh, and a side note: she loses all interest in the film when the ewoks show up, so I have no idea who they were aimed at.

Just a side quest..not meaning to derail anything, but

Was Biggs and Tank always mentioned by name by Luke when he was sitting at the table with this aunt and uncle ?

I really wish instead of all the other un-needed changes that were made that they had restored those scenes with Biggs at Ancorhead, with Koo. Biggs seemed to be the most important person to Luke outside of his family prior to meeting Ben, and those scenes with Biggs walking around in his cape talking about the rebellion are far more enjoyable than a dopey Jabba at Han's ship.
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I can stand most of it, but what i CAN"T stand are biggies, big enough to label the 2004 editions of ANH and ROTJ as completely Destroyed:

I can't stand the botched audio and missing Music in ANH.

I can't stand the blatently obvious error when the lightsabers cross infront of the emporer's face in RotJ.

and most of all, I HATE Hayden Christensen at the end. completely destroyed the uplifting effect.

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Originally posted by: Ozkeeper
Just a side quest..not meaning to derail anything, but

Was Biggs and Tank always mentioned by name by Luke when he was sitting at the table with this aunt and uncle ?


Yes, they were. Since I was already familiar with the storybook, which did keep the Biggs scenes in, I figured this mention of Biggs, as well as the earlier, "Biggs is right..." line were the remnants of that character, so that maybe careful viewers would figure out he was reunited with his friend.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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For all the talk about the changes, how about some omissions? There are some things I personally would have preferred to have been cut, even from the OOT. For example, I've never liked the slapsticky and cartoonish tint that was added to ROTJ, and for my own fan edit, there are a few things I'm likely to at least try to remove (if possible):

- The clips of the droids being torured in Jabba's dungeon, accompanied by cartoonish screams
- A few clips of Jabba's tiny annoying laughing creature
- The sarlacc burp (never cared that much for Fett, but this is bordering on too stupid)
- Chewbacca's Tarzan brawl (how's that for pulling you out of the moment)

Of course, I don't want the films to appear too pompous and turgid either, after all they're just fairy tales and a few moments of comedy is in order, but even as a kid I didn't really like the above mentioned things, and I wonder how the various scenes would fit together with these clips removed.
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I just remember something I hate, and it's rarely brought up because it's almost not noticeable (I know I didn't see it until I came here and it was pointed out to me), but the censoring of the laser blasts to Imperial officers in the first movie. I mean, I just think about that, and it pisses me off. I mean, that and the Greedo scene cement that the SEs have nothing to do with "original visions" and more to do with sanatizing and censoring for the "sake of the kids." Yeah, yeah. I doubt any kid had nightmares about seeing some dude get hit by a laser blast.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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The Changes I hated are.
The loud scream growl or whatever it was that scared the sand people away. What was the point of that. All the slap stick garbage that was added as Luke ans Obi Wan were headed into Mos Eisly. The larger droid hitting the smaller one and the Jawa falling off of the large beast it was riding after it got spooked. There is the blatantly obvious Greedo shooting first.

I didn't mind the addition of Jabba, sure it was cheesey and poorly done but I enjoyed it. The addition of Luke talking to Biggs before they take off towards the death star wasn't so bad either.

I own all three S/E movies on DVD and after watching ESB and ROTJ one time I have been unable to watch them again. they were just to awful. Especially ROTJ.