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The death star

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I know the criticisms of the OT prior to overwhelming critical focus on the SE's and PT was the building of two death stars in a new hope and return of the jedi. I am working on some edits and I trying to some major edits, to try and do something totally different, becuase the originals are good, magnolia's are better, and others have great ideas like trooperman, digital man, etc. So I want to do something that hasn't been done. One thing I thought about doing was merging some of the formation of the deathstar scenes from ROTJ and ANH. The ewoks are gone (completely - the building down on endor I thought about keeping as a key to put down the shields for the attack like in the original or making a rebel base that they refer to in ANH - not sure yet). I'd have to make ANH, but leave some of the Death star stuff from there until after Empire and take some of the ROTJ stuff and put it before empire. But I am trying to bridge the gap here and make it make sense. I have some ideas. But I am curious to know two things:

1. Does this bother you, having the redundancy of plot with two death stars, are you indifferent, or did you actually like that they went back and revisited this idea?

2. If you didn't like the redundancy how would you mix some scenes together (e.g. putting the awards ceremony at the end of ROTJ).
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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the redundency never really bothered me...i mean now i look at it and am like, the Empire is pretty stupid...think they could have come up with something better except..."damn, they blew up our 'invincible' battle station...what will we do?" "I know we can build a new one that is more vunerable." "Why, thats just crazy enough that it might work...get right on it"

but i think thats an interesting idea what you have in mind...is there anyway you can make it one like maybe 4-6 hour movie? maybe it starts off with the start of episode IV, replace the death star with the ROTJ version, can still have alderaan get blown up maybe (this part i would need to think about) after they save Leia they run to hoth, where the empire chases them, basically ESB happens, beginning of Jedi happens, you wanted to remove the ewoks you said (which i dont mind them, but only one 'destruction of the DS' can be used anyway) so then it goes to the ANH death star fight/ending. all done as one continuous cut/movie

would be pretty different, would prob get a lot of flack from some people if you did that, but i think it would be interesting to see.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Darth thanks for the feedback and I have thought of doing a long movie or a series of shorter films...I am not sure and yes it will get a lot of flack, but I getting a hold of vegas 6.0, sound forge 8.0, acid, maya, 3dsmax, endorphin and some very expensive software. I really am doing this to make something different and teach me the software. If someone loves the originals and hates magnolia's or can't accept the idea of not having 100% John williams score or the OT is sacred...well they'll really, really hate what I am going to do. But I do love the OT, I do love magnolia's films, but I have also grown up and what to make more adult films with more drama. No slapstick, no ewoks, no gungans, no jar-jar's, no whoopies, yahoo's, poo-doo's, kitsters, kid greedo's, no greedo shooting first, no two-headed race announcer, no female jabba, no and I mean no jedi rocks song (for the love of god that was awful), no "weeesa free". More sprituality, pensiveness, dark side torment (a la LOTR), more drama. I am going to play with filters and adding noise to the picture (to get the graininess that films are often using now). There are the original films and edits like magnolias to hold up the existing universe or fix minor flaws. I just want to create something different entirely as an experiment and to learn, if someone likes it besides me great...if no one does at least they may say it took a lot of work.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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sounds like a cool idea, I waiting for some of the complaints to start though, your going to get burned for awhile. all power to you man.
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Originally posted by: Darth Simon
the redundency never really bothered me...i mean now i look at it and am like, the Empire is pretty stupid...think they could have come up with something better except..."damn, they blew up our 'invincible' battle station...what will we do?" "I know we can build a new one that is more vunerable." "Why, thats just crazy enough that it might work...get right on it"
My assumption and opinion:
DS2 was not more vulnerable than DS1, the Alliance simply knew its location while it was under construction.
If they had found DS1 while it was still under construction at Despayrne, it would have been far more easy to destroy.
Likewise if DS2 had been completed when it was attacked, the Alliance would have no chance, at least not in a space battle. The vulnerable exhaust ports was replaced with small exhaust slits which were all over the surface.
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I am frustrated with the cartooniness...Yaddle got cut (no this is not a joke), and we are lucky that a female yoda didn't make it it to the PT...


Jedi rocks had a female greedo...for the love of God. There are so many cool aspects of star wars, but this is frustrating to have it convoluted with childishness.


And yes Shimraa I will be flamed. So be it. It is my destiny.

16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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hahaha yes but lik i said all power to you.
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I pretty much agree with Starkiller over the logistics of the Death Stars. I guess it was a little bit redundant, but it never bothered me since the specifics were so different. If there had been a Death Star in all three movies, then I'd probably be a little bored. But, anyway, that's a pretty cool idea. I'm not sure how it would work, though.

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Originally posted by: Darth Simon
the redundency never really bothered me...i mean now i look at it and am like, the Empire is pretty stupid...think they could have come up with something better except..."damn, they blew up our 'invincible' battle station...what will we do?" "I know we can build a new one that is more vunerable." "Why, thats just crazy enough that it might work...get right on it"

but i think thats an interesting idea what you have in mind...is there anyway you can make it one like maybe 4-6 hour movie? maybe it starts off with the start of episode IV, replace the death star with the ROTJ version, can still have alderaan get blown up maybe (this part i would need to think about) after they save Leia they run to hoth, where the empire chases them, basically ESB happens, beginning of Jedi happens, you wanted to remove the ewoks you said (which i dont mind them, but only one 'destruction of the DS' can be used anyway) so then it goes to the ANH death star fight/ending. all done as one continuous cut/movie

would be pretty different, would prob get a lot of flack from some people if you did that, but i think it would be interesting to see.

-Darth Simon


If you use the Death Star fight from the first movie, then how would the redemption of Anakin Skywalker work? You'd have (a much younger than in previous scenes) Luke flying in the battle against the Death Star, so there's no way he could be onboard fighting Vader and resisting the Emperor at the same time. And, of course, Darth Vader would be flying his own TIE as well. Plus, there'd really be nothing for Lando to do, unless you used elements from both battles (having to fire at the exhaust port and knock out the main reactor from the inside as well and somehow have it make sense). I could see that work. You could alter dialogue so it doesn't look like Wedge is leaving battle because he's been injured but leaving to join Lando's group and go inside. As for the whole Anakin thing, well, I'm still not sure how you'd do that, but I do think it would be cool to have two "fronts" for the Death Star battle to take place in.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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yeah, i didnt think to much about it, i posted that idea as a real rough overview...I guess my thought was just that using the first death star at the end would give it a more complete look, thus the appearance of work actually getting completed on it by the time the rebels located it. So yeah, some combination of the two battles would probably work.

The problem i have with this second death star is that they could fly through the whole thing. the first one needed a force guided shot of a proton torpedo to go into a 2 meter wide hole to set off a chain reaction to destroy it. the second one was, fly into it (with the falcon to boot) and just shoot the main reactor. what seems more vunerable to you? while yes it was fairly uncompleted, they flew 'straight through' the DSII. and since only one 'half' was not built, that means their had to be an opening for them to fly into/out of on both sides.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you (and I think I am, so I post this as a cry for help), but how do you figure that? They looped around and came out the same way they came in. However, I'm not sure how the earlier fighters got out (the "Split up and head for the surface" guys) since they obviously took an alternate route.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Yaddle is hot..I think there was a relationship between her and Yoda.

Yaddle - "Oh Master Yoda take me in the Jedi closet and show me a good time you will".

Yoda - " make sweet love to you I will, give you a great orgasm".
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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ok, just watched the scenes again and yeah, i guess they do actually loop around the core and go out the same way the came in (at least that arguement could be made) but the part they go in/out of doesnt appear to be the barely completed section as it looks to be the surface...also, the schemetic/holo of it (shown shortly after they core is destroyed) shows 4 such 'pathways' into the center of the ship.

I dunno, the fact that they can fly a ship into the thing just makes it seem more vunerable than the small exhaust port on the first one. and i dont think the construction necessarily accounts for the ship size (and not just small ships either) tunnels in the Death Star II.

either way, I think that Obi-wonton's idea could be done...i would be very interested to see a 1 epic movie version along the lines of what i said in my first post and maybe if i Obi-wonton's edit doesnt do that i may give it a shot at some point when i have more free time to play around with it. Kind of as a 'condenced saga' version of the OT

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: Darth Simon
ok, just watched the scenes again and yeah, i guess they do actually loop around the core and go out the same way the came in (at least that arguement could be made) but the part they go in/out of doesnt appear to be the barely completed section as it looks to be the surface...also, the schemetic/holo of it (shown shortly after they core is destroyed) shows 4 such 'pathways' into the center of the ship.

I dunno, the fact that they can fly a ship into the thing just makes it seem more vunerable than the small exhaust port on the first one. and i dont think the construction necessarily accounts for the ship size (and not just small ships either) tunnels in the Death Star II.


Maybe, while under construction, the Empire's construction crew used those four corridors for moving small ships and construction supplies in and out of the DS2. It wouldn't seem to make sense to me to build a power core free-floating in space and then build a superstructure *around* it. Then, as the core and inner construction wraps the builder seal the passageways from the inside out until eventually they are completely closed and sealed by the hull.
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Yeah, now that I think about it, there does seem to be an awful lot of empty space around that reactor. But I guess if it's small moon-sized, then there would still be plenty of room around it for the interior that we are shown.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Shimraa
do it wonton do it.



Do it, I shall I just have to work out the logistics to make all of this plausible. I am going to take some audio from the NPR novelizations, and I am grabbing some audio and video from other films, that the actors are in, so we'll see. It will take me a lot of thinking to not have this be problematic or leave gaping wholes, but I am working on it.



Oh here's the pic of Perlla the Hutt, notice the boobs too. I just have to wonder why he does this and yet is brilliant enough to come up with Darth Maul, Vader, the Emperor, the force, stormtrooper, speeders, At-At's, death star's etc. Oh well. This is goal now to remove these elements and make a darker, more serious movie where the true themes will seem more pervasive in to the films.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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"1. Does this bother you, having the redundancy of plot with two death stars"

Considering the fact that there were two Death Stars in the original write-up of ROTJ (thus giving us three altogether), I'd say we were lucky with what we got in the final version.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Well, it doesn't bother me. Darth Simon, DSII was attacked before it was completed not after, maybe when completed DSII would not have had the weak spot that DSI had. I
think the corridors or openings, I believe once the DSII was completed these would have be eliminated. Also remember to make up for this weakness, the empire had a shield
protecting it. One last question, what is more vulnerable DSI which only took a squadron of X-Wings to bring down, or DSII which took the whole rebel fleet?, and which attack
caused more rebel deaths?
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the amount of people killed doesnt make it more vunerable or not. They had the whole fleet at DSII yes, but did they need it...not really. That was just because of more protection from the Imperial Fleet caused the rebels to need their own fleet.

Ok, maybe they passages would have been closed up, thats very likely, greencapt's explanation satisfied me, but at the time it was attacked DSII was more vunerable than DSI, everyone that has 'defended' the corridors has basically said this. Because it was still under construction it was more vunerable, because it was more vunerable the Empire had a shield on it.

The dual death star thing doesnt bother me, it was more of the fact that it didnt seem the Empire learned anything and protected it any better that bother(s/ed) me about it. So it had a shield on a base that didnt really seem to take much to destroy, once that was gone it was totally defensless save the Fleet surrounding it. Did they do anything to the DS itself to prevent an attack from small fighters? (save the temporary shield that was inplace during construction) it didnt appear so.

Put both Death Stars out in the middle of space with nothing to protect them, or maybe jut themselves to protect them. as they were when they were destroyed, the 2nd one would be easier to destroy as if your willing to sacrafice yourself you can destroy it with no missles, the first takes a very skilled pilot to fire a very precise shot into a very small hole.

The empire was just sloppy on the Death Star II's construction...like Luke told the Emperor "You're overconfidence is your weakness" and guess what, it was oh so true.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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I agree with Simon here. The FIRST Death Star was an example of the Empire's hubris; we're big, we're bad, we can blow up planets... which is the Empire in a nutshell. But after seeing that they could be defeated by the small band of rebels, they should have learned. *Even* if the DSII had already been under construction they should have abandoned it for another idea.

But now that I think about it maybe it does make sense. The Emperor was definately full of himself and perhaps... just perhaps... not many people in or out of the Empire had even HEARD of the Death Star and probably had not heard of its destruction. It WAS supposed to be a super-secret weapon. Palpatine could have been trying to just ignore the destruction of the first one and use the second to not only wipe out the rebels and convert Skywalker but also then continue with the day-to-day threatening of worlds and all that other Empire building stuff. Palps did have a lot of moxie afterall!
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It feels repetitive to me. Flying into the death star, blowing it up and zooming out of there with a yahoo. C'mon. And that thing that Lando is flying with that looks the hamburgler, gimme a break. I like the scenes with Luke the Emperor and Vader, but to me, again it pulls me out a gets a bit corny at times...not staying as dark and tense as it could be. Not as poetic as Anakin fulfilling prophecy by killing the emperor, vader pulling off his helmet, the funeral pyre...all that is so awesome...ewoks, squids and hamburglers...not as awesome to me.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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Originally posted by: Warbler
Also remember to make up for this weakness, the empire had a shield
protecting it.
Quote

And there lies the answer to this whole debate. Admittedly the shield was very easy to bring down, but the thought was there.

War does not make one great.

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"One last question, what is more vulnerable DSI which only took a squadron of X-Wings to bring down, or DSII which took the whole rebel fleet?"

Actually, both DS's were brought down by individual ships taking out the main reactor. The number of ships outside in the actual battle doesn't change this either way. (Of course, the DS II was also hit by a SD as well. )

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I don't get how people think 2 death stars is unrealistic?

Ok, let's compare the movies with real life.

The Movies: Death Star is built, blown up by assholes. New one is built - same fate.

Real life examples of human stupidity!
The luxury liners of the 19th/20th century. They were huge, costly and eventually unecessary, and a lot of them sank. But they kept building more!
Twin Towers. Knocked down by REAL assholes, but look we're building more at great expense.
Jackass - totally redundant program where idiots do dumb things. That went on for a while didn't it?

Look, I actually find the redundant construction of 2 Death Stars one of the more convincing human elements in Star Wars. It's such a stupid, human thing to do! In fact I'm surprised there wasn't about ten of the damned things.

An edit of the films to remove one of the Death Stars would only exemplify the message of human stubborness displayed by the costly construction of those technological terrors, so fire away!
VADER: Let me look on you with my own eyes...

LUKE: Dad, where are your eyebrows?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_S6UgkQk0
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Originally posted by: Darth Simon
the amount of people killed doesnt make it more vunerable or not. They had the whole fleet at DSII yes, but did they need it...not really. That was just because of more protection from the Imperial Fleet caused the rebels to need their own fleet.

Ok, maybe they passages would have been closed up, thats very likely, greencapt's explanation satisfied me, but at the time it was attacked DSII was more vunerable than DSI, everyone that has 'defended' the corridors has basically said this. Because it was still under construction it was more vunerable, because it was more vunerable the Empire had a shield on it.

The dual death star thing doesnt bother me, it was more of the fact that it didnt seem the Empire learned anything and protected it any better that bother(s/ed) me about it. So it had a shield on a base that didnt really seem to take much to destroy, once that was gone it was totally defensless save the Fleet surrounding it. Did they do anything to the DS itself to prevent an attack from small fighters? (save the temporary shield that was inplace during construction) it didnt appear so.

Put both Death Stars out in the middle of space with nothing to protect them, or maybe jut themselves to protect them. as they were when they were destroyed, the 2nd one would be easier to destroy as if your willing to sacrafice yourself you can destroy it with no missles, the first takes a very skilled pilot to fire a very precise shot into a very small hole.

The empire was just sloppy on the Death Star II's construction...like Luke told the Emperor "You're overconfidence is your weakness" and guess what, it was oh so true.

-Darth Simon


?????? THE SECOND DEATH STAR WAS STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION Perhaps once it was complete it would have been much more difficult to destroy. Also you saiidthey just left out there in the middle of nowhere with nothing to protect it. THEY HAD A SHEILD GENERATOR AROUND IT AND THE ENTIRE IMPERIAL FLEET WAS NEAR BY TO DEFEND IT Just how would you go about constructing a Death Star without having it as vulnerable as it was(during construction)? And please remember the Emperor left it open to attack on purpose, as a trap for the rebels.