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The Usual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 53

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But creativity doesn’t mean quality. For example, one can argue the prequels were original, but they were not good movies by any stretch of the imagination, partly because of the insane stuff they came up with in the name of “creativity”.

And either way, the Knights of Ren would make much better villains than Leia, Luke, Jar Jar, or any other former hero. “Turns out this good character is now evil” isn’t a very satisfying plot twist.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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I dunno… more masked lackeys don’t really do it for me. And creativity is at least trying. Creativity is always better than safe banality. Force Awakens is my least favourite in the franchise because it just aimed so low. Abrams said he wanted to remind people of the original film, but I don’t need reminding. I have the theatrical cut on DVD, special edition on blu ray, and now we have Disney+. I can remind myself whenever I want. I want new films, at the bare minimum, to be new.

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Sorry, but I just don’t get your logic. I’ve always been of the opinion that when it comes to big blockbuster movies, it’s better to be safe than sorry. Darth Leia/Jar-Jar/Luke would have been an incredibly controversial decision, and most people probably would have hated it. In my opinion, plot twists should be done to advance the story, not just to shock the audience with something completely random.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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And re-treading old plot beats doesn’t advance the story, it just re-treads the same ground. If it’s gonna be a remake, at least have the guts to just have it be a remake. Pretending it’s a sequel while acting like an underachieving high schooler plagiarising but with different pronouns and proper nouns doesn’t advance anything.

Then again, as an eight year old I thought Phantom Ménage copied A New Hope too much, so The Force Awakens coming out when I was an adult was even worse.

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Oh, so we’re going with the old “TFA is a ripoff of ANH” argument then? That criticism has never made any sense, because almost all of the plot points are completely different.

I don’t remember Luke being abducted by Vader while the Empire raided Mos Eisley, and Obi-Wan didn’t die at the same time as the Rebels were attacking the Death Star. Leia wasn’t a defecting Imperial soldier who wound up meeting Luke on Tatooine, Han didn’t “die” in the first act only to come back later, and R2-D2 wasn’t carrying a map to Yoda.

You get my point yet? The plots of TFA and ANH are almost completely different. Just because they have some similar images that can be taken out of context and juxtaposed next to each other, doesn’t mean one is a ripoff of the other.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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A rebel spy hides information in a droid. That droid is then found by an orphan in the desert, who joins up with a rouge and an old man. While attempting to deliver that secret information, a girl is captured by the space Nazis, she has to be rescued and the world-destroying base has to be destroyed.

Changing minor details, mixing and matching things around… that’s not enough to make it an original plot. That is why I compared it to a high schooler changing enough details to get past the plagiarism-detection software, but not enough to be its own thing.

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Like I said, those moments of similarity are taken completely out of context, and often are deliberate allusions that the director wasn’t even trying to hide. You’re confusing Lucas-style “poetic rhyming” with plagiarism.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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No, you’re confusing the rhyming with the rip off. Phantom Menace rhymed, it may not have been great, but it was different. It introduced new ideas, had creativity… it wasn’t just a new empire and new rebels in a dynamic that didn’t even make sense. There was no stand-in for the empire, and no stand in for the rebels. There was no list of analogies going beat for beat, between plot, characters, and even locations.

There’s a difference.

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But the similarities with TFA aren’t beat-for-beat. There are similar motifs, and intentional allusions, but the plot, characters, and locations are not the same by any stretch of the imagination. Just like with TPM.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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Ever notice how all three trilogies end with Palpatine electrocuting himself?

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I disagree, as do many others. Many more people also found Abrams’ film Star Trek Into Darkness to follow that same pattern of ripping off Star Trek: The Wrath of Kahn.

We’re getting off topic, I do feel like the new characters in The Force Awakens are rip offs, you don’t. I feel like the Plot copies A New Hope beat-for-beat. You don’t, and I’m glad you can enjoy that film without rolling your eyes. Criticising others for ideas they find more interesting than derivative and lazy choices isn’t really necessary. If someone preferred not to undo the ending of Return of the Jedi, even if that revealed a character that seemed only to be comic relief as a villainous mastermind, that is their opinion.

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Turn Ben’s Saber (in the TLJ flashback scene) to Green to really show and dig in that “New generation of Jedi” Idea.

Working on many edits, may take many years to complete…

Also known as Mr. Jung.

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Speaking of Saber’s I don’t like the idea of Leia having Jedi training (largely as a consequence of hating the idea of her being a Skywalker), so I suggest replacing her lightsaber in TRoS with Qui-Gon’s. That said, it would have no real significance there beyond bookends, so I’m hesitant. Maybe Luke’s green saber? Idk…

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In that case, Luke saber being hidden within the bricks of the hut makes the most sense.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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It would. The only issue is why Luke would tell her to take both sabers to Exegol.

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Because two lightsabers are better than one.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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Probably another hokey Jedi prophecy.

The power of the X shall destroy the One True Emperor” !0!

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Speaking of Saber’s I don’t like the idea of Leia having Jedi training (largely as a consequence of hating the idea of her being a Skywalker), so I suggest replacing her lightsaber in TRoS with Qui-Gon’s. That said, it would have no real significance there beyond bookends, so I’m hesitant. Maybe Luke’s green saber? Idk…

Why are you against the idea of her being a Skywalker? Did you adjust Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi as well? And I believe there are mentions in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi too…

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In fact, the comprehensibility of the entire ST rests on Leia being a Skywalker.

JEDIT: Though I agree that Leia’s Jedi training was a pretty pointless eleventh-hour addition.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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paja said:

Turn Ben’s Saber (in the TLJ flashback scene) to Green to really show and dig in that “New generation of Jedi” Idea.

I always thought saber colors had a theme:
White : Jedi Knight
Green : Jedi Master

This fit Luke’s path in ROTJ.
It fit Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in Phantom.
AOTC…kind of followed that pattern. Yoda had green, Anakin and Obi-Wan had white.
But then Obi-Wan always had white even as a master while on the council…so it basically fizzled out as an idea with all the various extra Jedis just being whatever and it was clear Lucas didn’t follow the master-knight theme.

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thebluefrog said:

paja said:

Turn Ben’s Saber (in the TLJ flashback scene) to Green to really show and dig in that “New generation of Jedi” Idea.

I always thought saber colors had a theme:
White : Jedi Knight
Green : Jedi Master

This fit Luke’s path in ROTJ.
It fit Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in Phantom.
AOTC…kind of followed that pattern. Yoda had green, Anakin and Obi-Wan had white.
But then Obi-Wan always had white even as a master while on the council…so it basically fizzled out as an idea with all the various extra Jedis just being whatever and it was clear Lucas didn’t follow the master-knight theme.

Obi-Wan has blue all the way until his death, so that was never the strict measure.

Blue is more about taking physical action with the force.

Green is about being more reflective and mystic in the fight against the dark side.

Yellow is about being more scholarly and stoic with the force.

Purple is usually associated with the concept of “grey” Jedi, those that seek that dangerous middle ground at the edge of the dark side.

Red is corrupted and bleeding from the dark side (old EU defined them as being artificial).

White (like Ahsoka’s sabers in Rebels) have been purified after going to the dark side.

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Idea for Ben’s Death:

Maybe he can be made a Force Ghost while he revives Rey before vanishing forever, sacrificing his afterlife for the Jedi to be reborn.

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In fact, the comprehensibility of the entire ST rests on Leia being a Skywalker.

How so? Kylo doesn’t need to be a Skywalker to be a Vader fanboy, and he still comes from two important lineages, if you’re worried about it stealing from Rey Nobody.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

In fact, the comprehensibility of the entire ST rests on Leia being a Skywalker.

How so? Kylo doesn’t need to be a Skywalker to be a Vader fanboy, and he still comes from two important lineages, if you’re worried about it stealing from Rey Nobody.

She’s the other hope, if Luke should fall to the darkness. And she was that hope, when Luke abandoned the galaxy she was there forming a Resistance against the will of the Republic and preparing to fight the First Order. Luke also had the strength to face Vader and the Emperor because he knew she could keep the fight going if he failed; to quote Luke in The Last Jedi, he knew that if he died he wouldn’t be the last of the Jedi.

It does rest on her as much as him being a Skywalker.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

In fact, the comprehensibility of the entire ST rests on Leia being a Skywalker.

How so? Kylo doesn’t need to be a Skywalker to be a Vader fanboy, and he still comes from two important lineages, if you’re worried about it stealing from Rey Nobody.

So we’re just supposed to accept that he’s the son of Han and Leia and just so happens to be one of the strongest Force users in the galaxy?

I mean, the ST posits three massively important pieces of the plot all happening to land within a couple miles of each other on one planet in the galaxy, so I get that this shark is already well and truly jumped, but why add another coincidence to the pile?

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)