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The Usual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 52

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Anakin Starkiller said:

If I had the talent, I’d go full on Darth Jar Jar instead of Sidious. Let’s just embrace the ludicrousness.

You know that sort of attitude is how I enjoyed the film in theaters, but somehow, Darth Jar Jar just rubs me the wrong way.

It’s a tough sell, for sure, since Lucas obviously didn’t intend that at all. He flat out said Jar Jar was his version of Disney’s Goofy (as in, the dog character).

That being said, imagine it being pulled off. Instead of his wacky quasi-Jamaican overacting, imagine if he’s older, calmer, and talks with a smooth Baron Samedi style. No Palpatine cackling supervillain, a casual charismatic true behind-the-scenes villain who hid behind the jester’s antics.

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thebluefrog said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

If I had the talent, I’d go full on Darth Jar Jar instead of Sidious. Let’s just embrace the ludicrousness.

You know that sort of attitude is how I enjoyed the film in theaters, but somehow, Darth Jar Jar just rubs me the wrong way.

It’s a tough sell, for sure, since Lucas obviously didn’t intend that at all. He flat out said Jar Jar was his version of Disney’s Goofy (as in, the dog character).

That being said, imagine it being pulled off. Instead of his wacky quasi-Jamaican overacting, imagine if he’s older, calmer, and talks with a smooth Baron Samedi style. No Palpatine cackling supervillain, a casual charismatic true behind-the-scenes villain who hid behind the jester’s antics.

Imagine Jar Jar actually being Darth Plagueus.

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 (Edited)

Can we please not do Darth Jar Jar? It would be one of the worst possible choices to make in a serious edit.

Honestly, think about it. Most of the “evidence” is just unfunny comic relief moments that the fans wildly misinterpreted. It isn’t even paid off in the prequels anyway, making it completely pointless. I have no idea why some people take this “theory” seriously.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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StarkillerAG said:

Can we please not do Darth Jar Jar? It would be one of the worst possible choices to make in a serious edit.

Honestly, think about it. Most of the “evidence” is just unfunny comic relief moments that the fans wildly misinterpreted. It isn’t even paid off in the prequels anyway, making it completely pointless. I have no idea why some people take this “theory” seriously.

I mean, he was responsible for the fall of the Republic to Darth Sidious…

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 (Edited)

He was, but Sidious clearly manipulated him to do it. There’s even a chapter in the Aftermath trilogy where Jar Jar is shown as being an outcast for unwittingly allowing Sidious to rise to power. All of Jar Jar’s actions were intended for comic relief, not to show him as some sort of evil mastermind.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:

He was, but Sidious clearly manipulated him to do it. There’s even a chapter in the Aftermath trilogy where Jar Jar is shown as being an outcast for unwittingly allowing Sidious to rise to power.

It’s extremely likely that neither JJ, KK, or Rian read Aftermath, or indeed most EU books. Maybe they read a wiki summary at best.

The directors and Disney in general don’t really care about the canon as much as the fandom does. Pablo probably has a headache with every new script that comes out as he has to explain the latest contraction.

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thebluefrog said:

The directors and Disney in general don’t really care about the canon as much as the fandom does.

I think that was true even before Disney. Lucas was involved in TCW, sure, but before the prequels he told EU writers never to go into detail about the Clone Wars or the Mandalorians because he didn’t want to have to worry about interfering with canon when the time came for him to make more movies.

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?

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 (Edited)

thebluefrog said:

StarkillerAG said:

He was, but Sidious clearly manipulated him to do it. There’s even a chapter in the Aftermath trilogy where Jar Jar is shown as being an outcast for unwittingly allowing Sidious to rise to power.

It’s extremely likely that neither JJ, KK, or Rian read Aftermath, or indeed most EU books. Maybe they read a wiki summary at best.

The directors and Disney in general don’t really care about the canon as much as the fandom does. Pablo probably has a headache with every new script that comes out as he has to explain the latest contraction.

I know that, especially since TROS clearly contradicted the new canon at several points. But it’s still evidence that the whole “emergency powers” thing was intended to be Sidious manipulating Jar Jar, not the other way around.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:

It’s extremely likely that neither JJ, KK, or Rian read Aftermath, or indeed most EU books. Maybe they read a wiki summary at best.

The directors and Disney in general don’t really care about the canon as much as the fandom does. Pablo probably has a headache with every new script that comes out as he has to explain the latest contraction.

I know that, especially since TROS clearly contradicted the new canon at several points. But it’s still evidence that the whole “emergency powers” thing was intended to be Sidious manipulating Jar Jar, not the other way around.

My point was really more that “contracting canon” was never a priority for the sequel trilogy, so, really, why consider canon as holy and untouchable?

If we’re gonna edit, may as well go all-in and change things as we want. Why pretend to adhere to canon when the actual company does not?

Take Snoke. Each movie contradicted the holy canon.
TFA: Snoke was an unknown, powerful new Emperor-type leader, but somehow was always there during the original trilogy. Also he doesn’t seem to know or care about Rey.
EU books: The writers had to rationalize this somehow by making vague references to Palpatine sensing Snoke somewhere out there to explain why he didn’t have an impact over the war.
TLJ: Snoke is nobody important and also wants Rey dead now.
ROS: Snoke was actually Palpatine and wants Rey alive.

Before anyone gets worked up–I’m not debating whether these were good or bad retcons or whether anyone liked or disliked the changes.

I’m saying that as editors, we have freedom to do whatever we want.

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thebluefrog said:

StarkillerAG said:

It’s extremely likely that neither JJ, KK, or Rian read Aftermath, or indeed most EU books. Maybe they read a wiki summary at best.

The directors and Disney in general don’t really care about the canon as much as the fandom does. Pablo probably has a headache with every new script that comes out as he has to explain the latest contraction.

I know that, especially since TROS clearly contradicted the new canon at several points. But it’s still evidence that the whole “emergency powers” thing was intended to be Sidious manipulating Jar Jar, not the other way around.

My point was really more that “contracting canon” was never a priority for the sequel trilogy, so, really, why consider canon as holy and untouchable?

If we’re gonna edit, may as well go all-in and change things as we want. Why pretend to adhere to canon when the actual company does not?

Take Snoke. Each movie contradicted the holy canon.
TFA: Snoke was an unknown, powerful new Emperor-type leader, but somehow was always there during the original trilogy. Also he doesn’t seem to know or care about Rey.
EU books: The writers had to rationalize this somehow by making vague references to Palpatine sensing Snoke somewhere out there to explain why he didn’t have an impact over the war.
TLJ: Snoke is nobody important and also wants Rey dead now.
ROS: Snoke was actually Palpatine and wants Rey alive.

Before anyone gets worked up–I’m not debating whether these were good or bad retcons or whether anyone liked or disliked the changes.

I’m saying that as editors, we have freedom to do whatever we want.

In fairness to TLJ, Rey did have an impact on events of TFA… it makes sense that he’d want her dead. Also, his death doesn’t mean he didn’t matter. He still turned Kylo to the dark side and built the First Order, and his death allowed Kylo to become the new big bad. That’s not ignoring everything else as much as you’re suggesting.

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I know that as editors, canon doesn’t matter, and we can do whatever we want. But “whatever we want” ideally shouldn’t include Jar Jar being an evil Sith mastermind. That idea is dumb, it always has been dumb, and I don’t understand why some people unironically vouch for it.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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StarkillerAG said:

I know that as editors, canon doesn’t matter, and we can do whatever we want. But “whatever we want” ideally shouldn’t include Jar Jar being an evil Sith mastermind. That idea is dumb, it always has been dumb, and I don’t understand why some people unironically vouch for it.

Dumb or not, it might be fun. At the end of the day, isn’t that the point? To have fun and enjoy it?

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If you’re making a parody edit, yes. But for a serious edit, it’s a terrible idea.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:

If you’re making a parody edit, yes. But for a serious edit, it’s a terrible idea.

It’s the same “it was me all along” plot idea as Palpatine’s return, no less silly in my opinion.

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StarkillerAG said:

I know that as editors, canon doesn’t matter, and we can do whatever we want. But “whatever we want” ideally shouldn’t include Jar Jar being an evil Sith mastermind. That idea is dumb, it always has been dumb, and I don’t understand why some people unironically vouch for it.

Is anyone unironically vouching for it though?

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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NeverarGreat said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know that as editors, canon doesn’t matter, and we can do whatever we want. But “whatever we want” ideally shouldn’t include Jar Jar being an evil Sith mastermind. That idea is dumb, it always has been dumb, and I don’t understand why some people unironically vouch for it.

Is anyone unironically vouching for it though?

If it could be done with good effects and audio, I’d be all for it.

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NeverarGreat said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know that as editors, canon doesn’t matter, and we can do whatever we want. But “whatever we want” ideally shouldn’t include Jar Jar being an evil Sith mastermind. That idea is dumb, it always has been dumb, and I don’t understand why some people unironically vouch for it.

Is anyone unironically vouching for it though?

Bringing back Palpatine is on the same level of ludicrousness.

Anakin’s sacrifice is pretty badly tarnished by Palpatine’s existence (and Snoke, really) so may as well go all-in on the insanity.

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Darth Jar Jar has always been a joke. One of those tongue-in-cheek theories that is amusing how it can almost sound plausible. But it’d be a terrible idea to put out in a movie for real.

It’d be like Return to Oz having all the munchkins hang themselves at the end of a song.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

If you’re making a parody edit, yes. But for a serious edit, it’s a terrible idea.

It’s the same “it was me all along” plot idea as Palpatine’s return, no less silly in my opinion.

Except Palpatine is already a well-established villain character, who has been teased to know something about cheating death. Jar Jar is just a stupid clown who does nothing over the entire prequel trilogy. Not to defend TROS, but Palpatine’s return is way less silly than Darth Jar Jar.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

If you’re making a parody edit, yes. But for a serious edit, it’s a terrible idea.

It’s the same “it was me all along” plot idea as Palpatine’s return, no less silly in my opinion.

Except Palpatine is already a well-established villain character, who has been teased to know something about cheating death. Jar Jar is just a stupid clown who does nothing over the entire prequel trilogy. Not to defend TROS, but Palpatine’s return is way less silly than Darth Jar Jar.

I disagree, but that’s mainly because Palpatine’s return always seemed like one of the bad ideas of the old EU to me. Snoke was a new threat, which didn’t go against Vader’s redemption/sacrifice to me.

Palpatine was a lazy choice, Jar Jar would have at least been a creative choice that didn’t undo 37 years of storytelling.

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If you just hate Palpatine’s return because it was in the EU, then fine. But Darth Jar Jar is an objectively worse idea, purely because Jar Jar has never been established as a villainous force. And I’m not too concerned about “diminishing Anakin’s sacrifice”, since the whole Chosen One thing was a dumb idea in the first place.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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StarkillerAG said:

If you just hate Palpatine’s return because it was in the EU, then fine. But Darth Jar Jar is an objectively worse idea, purely because Jar Jar has never been established as a villainous force. And I’m not too concerned about “diminishing Anakin’s sacrifice”, since the whole Chosen One thing was a dumb idea in the first place.

It’s not because of the old EU that I dislike the idea, I’m saying I disliked it then as well. It’s not about him being the chosen one, it’s about that film‘s ending being undone and not being able to come up with another villain… like, I don’t like when these stories seek to make that universe smaller, and one overarching villain across the entire franchise is pretty reductive.

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If you think the problem is not coming up with new villains, then Jar Jar wouldn’t be a good option either, given that he’s already an established character.

I do agree with your basic point though. If I had it my way, the villains of IX would be the Knights of Ren. After returning from some sort of expedition into the Unknown Regions, they begin to harass Kylo for not following their code of honor. This feeling of isolation eventually leads Kylo to join the Resistance, although they obviously don’t trust him at first. After that, the Knights take over as the main villains, and the climactic duel is Rey and Kylo vs the Knights.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

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 (Edited)

My problem isn’t that the Emperor isn’t new, it’s that it’s reductive. The film literally tried to make him the only evil that’s ever been. He’s ALL of the Sith. He’s the major villain of all three trilogies.

I would’ve been down for an evil Luke as the villain for the sequel trilogy, he wouldn’t be a new character, but he would be a new villain. Similarly, Jar Jar would’ve been a new and creative choice.