Sign In

The Usual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 47

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

When fans give the story more thought than the writers.
Sigh

I mean that’s not really true though.

I’d say it’s true in relation to JJ Abrams’ writing.

Just because the final product ended up in a certain simplified way doesn’t thought wasn’t put into its development.

I’m sure a certain degree of thought was put into it, just not enough thought nor the right thought.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

JakeRyan17 said:

DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

When fans give the story more thought than the writers.
Sigh

I mean that’s not really true though.

I’d say it’s true in relation to JJ Abrams’ writing.

Just because the final product ended up in a certain simplified way doesn’t thought wasn’t put into its development.

Crazy coincidence that all of JJ Abrams’ films turn out half baked despite the thought he puts in them and his public quotes that he prefers mysteries with no answers…

That’s the thing though, that’s the style of story he prefers so he cuts it down to that. Doesn’t mean the writers “put less though into it than the fans.” We’re talking about people who spent months working full-time jobs just working on the script. You can complain all you want about the end result but don’t make up stuff about the process.

His process is to purposefully not think things out. He intentionally will create intrigue with mysteries that sit alongside and distract from the story, with zero thought put into the answers to them. That’s less thought.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

An example from the top of my head: I find NevrarGreat’s “fanfic” episode 9 to be a lot deeper and more compelling than JJ’s memberberry running marathon.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Just saying “hur hur JJ dumb no thought happened here” is ridiculous. That’s not how movies are made. I think TROS is a disaster of epic proportions, but just saying something like “wow they really put no thought into it” is a really uninformed way to criticize it. It’s very easy to see the thought process that goes into poor creative decisions if you’re willing to look closely.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

Just saying “hur hur JJ dumb no thought happened here” is ridiculous. That’s not how movies are made. I think TROS is a disaster of epic proportions, but just saying something like “wow they really put no thought into it” is a really uninformed way to criticize it. It’s easy to see the thought process that goes into poor creative decisions if you’re willing to look closely.

No thought into story or character arcs. He put lots of thought into visuals. No one said he did nothing, but he fired Oscar-winning screenwriters and then failed to actually write more than nostalgia. That’s not putting thought into the story. His time and energy went elsewhere.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

In fairness, Michael Arnt had no script almost one year into his hiring. Ideally they would have given him more time to crack the story but with the short schedule they were given I don’t really blame them for getting rid of him. It’s just that JJ should have been kept far away from the script.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

Author
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

DominicCobb said:

Just saying “hur hur JJ dumb no thought happened here” is ridiculous. That’s not how movies are made. I think TROS is a disaster of epic proportions, but just saying something like “wow they really put no thought into it” is a really uninformed way to criticize it. It’s easy to see the thought process that goes into poor creative decisions if you’re willing to look closely.

No thought into story or character arcs. He put lots of thought into visuals. No one said he did nothing, but he fired Oscar-winning screenwriters and then failed to actually write more than nostalgia. That’s not putting thought into the story. His time and energy went elsewhere.

He traded ONE Oscar winning screenwriter for Lawrence fuckin Kasdan, don’t think anyone should be too angry about that. Especially when he hired an Oscar winning screenwriter for TROS that completely tanked the whole film. I don’t really care to argue with the rest of your post because I think it’s pretty shallow analysis. And, regardless, this is the wrong thread for it.

Author
Time

idir_hh said:

In fairness, Michael Arnt had no script almost one year into his hiring. Ideally they would have given him more time to crack the story but with the short schedule they were given I don’t really blame them for getting rid of him. It’s just that JJ should have been kept far away from the script.

*no completed and approved script.

It’s not like he was twiddling his thumbs. He was doing what Abrams wouldn’t: putting thought into the script.

Author
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

idir_hh said:

In fairness, Michael Arnt had no script almost one year into his hiring. Ideally they would have given him more time to crack the story but with the short schedule they were given I don’t really blame them for getting rid of him. It’s just that JJ should have been kept far away from the script.

*no completed and approved script.

It’s not like he was twiddling his thumbs. He was doing what Abrams wouldn’t: putting thought into the script.

He was working with Abrams.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

JakeRyan17 said:

DominicCobb said:

Just saying “hur hur JJ dumb no thought happened here” is ridiculous. That’s not how movies are made. I think TROS is a disaster of epic proportions, but just saying something like “wow they really put no thought into it” is a really uninformed way to criticize it. It’s easy to see the thought process that goes into poor creative decisions if you’re willing to look closely.

No thought into story or character arcs. He put lots of thought into visuals. No one said he did nothing, but he fired Oscar-winning screenwriters and then failed to actually write more than nostalgia. That’s not putting thought into the story. His time and energy went elsewhere.

He traded ONE Oscar winning screenwriter for Lawrence fuckin Kasdan, don’t think anyone should be too angry about that. Especially when he hired an Oscar winning screenwriter for TROS that completely tanked the whole film. I don’t really care to argue with the rest of your post because I think it’s pretty shallow analysis. And, regardless, this is the wrong thread for it.

Kasdan is great, so is Terrio. You can see both of their influence under the mandated dumbing down with nostalgia.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

JakeRyan17 said:

DominicCobb said:

JakeRyan17 said:

DominicCobb said:

Just saying “hur hur JJ dumb no thought happened here” is ridiculous. That’s not how movies are made. I think TROS is a disaster of epic proportions, but just saying something like “wow they really put no thought into it” is a really uninformed way to criticize it. It’s easy to see the thought process that goes into poor creative decisions if you’re willing to look closely.

No thought into story or character arcs. He put lots of thought into visuals. No one said he did nothing, but he fired Oscar-winning screenwriters and then failed to actually write more than nostalgia. That’s not putting thought into the story. His time and energy went elsewhere.

He traded ONE Oscar winning screenwriter for Lawrence fuckin Kasdan, don’t think anyone should be too angry about that. Especially when he hired an Oscar winning screenwriter for TROS that completely tanked the whole film. I don’t really care to argue with the rest of your post because I think it’s pretty shallow analysis. And, regardless, this is the wrong thread for it.

Kasdan is great, so is Terrio. You can see both of their influence under the mandated dumbing down with nostalgia.

Look at any interview with Terrio. He was an awful choice for the film - a “fan” who thought he could fix all the “problems” with the last two films. Someone who fundamentally misunderstood the franchise in many ways. A terrible influence on the script.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

TFA is very intentionally planned. But not to be an interesting story, like most people here want now, but to be as Star Wars as possible. People today dislike it for that, but it was the smartest choice. The PT was hated at that point for being “not Star Wars” so they made the most Star Wars thing imaginable. Rebels vs Empire again, Han as smuggler again, superweapon finale again. Instead of exposition dumping the last 30 years they jumped to the action and JJ mystery-boxed the past. And you know what? It worked, at the time.

Once they had successfully roped people in they do what ESB did and subvert expectations. Whether they succeeded or failed is up to you. But it was thought out.

By TROS many people disliked TLJ and instead of sticking to their guns Disney was worried of alienating more people, so they went back to pleasing as many people as possible. Only this time it didn’t work. TROS was rushed with reshoots so it never had the possibility of being well thought out, and this was what we got.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

Author
Time

Ultimately it’s the decision makers at Disney and Lucasfilm who were at fault. JJ, Arnt and the rest were only doing a job.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

JakeRyan17 said:

idir_hh said:

In fairness, Michael Arnt had no script almost one year into his hiring. Ideally they would have given him more time to crack the story but with the short schedule they were given I don’t really blame them for getting rid of him. It’s just that JJ should have been kept far away from the script.

*no completed and approved script.

It’s not like he was twiddling his thumbs. He was doing what Abrams wouldn’t: putting thought into the script.

He was working with Abrams.

He was fired when Abrams was hired and said he wanted to do the script himself, he brought in Kasdan, and they kept the protagonist being a girl and Luke being at an ancient Jedi Temple. The plot and story was thrown out to make Luke a maguffin and to mimic A New Hope.

Author
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

DominicCobb said:

JakeRyan17 said:

idir_hh said:

In fairness, Michael Arnt had no script almost one year into his hiring. Ideally they would have given him more time to crack the story but with the short schedule they were given I don’t really blame them for getting rid of him. It’s just that JJ should have been kept far away from the script.

*no completed and approved script.

It’s not like he was twiddling his thumbs. He was doing what Abrams wouldn’t: putting thought into the script.

He was working with Abrams.

He was fired when Abrams was hired and said he wanted to do the script himself, he brought in Kasdan, and they kept the protagonist being a girl and Luke being at an ancient Jedi Temple. The plot and story was thrown out to make Luke a maguffin and to mimic A New Hope.

This is all just factually untrue. Arndt worked with Abrams and even with Kasdan on the script. The plot and story was not thrown out at all, it naturally evolved from what Arndt was writing. And it was Arndt who decided Luke shouldn’t be in the film, because he thought it took the focus off the protagonist.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

JakeRyan17 said:

DominicCobb said:

JakeRyan17 said:

idir_hh said:

In fairness, Michael Arnt had no script almost one year into his hiring. Ideally they would have given him more time to crack the story but with the short schedule they were given I don’t really blame them for getting rid of him. It’s just that JJ should have been kept far away from the script.

*no completed and approved script.

It’s not like he was twiddling his thumbs. He was doing what Abrams wouldn’t: putting thought into the script.

He was working with Abrams.

He was fired when Abrams was hired and said he wanted to do the script himself, he brought in Kasdan, and they kept the protagonist being a girl and Luke being at an ancient Jedi Temple. The plot and story was thrown out to make Luke a maguffin and to mimic A New Hope.

This is all just factually untrue. Arndt worked with Abrams and even with Kasdan on the script. The plot and story was not thrown out at all, it naturally evolved from what Arndt was writing. And it was Arndt who decided Luke shouldn’t be in the film, because he thought it took the focus off the protagonist.

He wasn’t the one that said Luke should be a plot object. That was Abrams. Arndt’s story and plot were stripped, the broad strokes of characters and ideas were kept. Abrams is the one who decided to just plagiarise another film, passing it off as something new.

And that wasn’t necessary. No one needed another A New Hope. We have the old one, on VHS, DVD, and evening BD by the time TFA came out. What we needed is what was promised: “a new Star Wars that was crafted and looks like the old ones.”

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Wasn’t there an interview with Kasdan where he said that when he was brought in, they basically had to start from scratch?

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

Author
Time

I don’t think JJ Abrams reads enough Campbell. Despite what Darth Maul what’s-his-face recently said about Rian Johnson not doing his Star Wars homework, I think the sentiment is much more appropriately directed toward JJ in relation to Star Wars’ makeup.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

Author
Time
 (Edited)

On another forum I frequent, one guy tries to blame Rian Johnson for everything going off-track. Here’s a bit:

"Apparently Rian Johnson wasn’t a fan of whatever the “plan” was after TFA and pitched his own movie that became TLJ. Some people say he was incredibly convincing in his pitch, others have said he knew how to sweet-talk Kathleen Kennedy. Maybe both, I donno. Either way, if there was a plan? TLJ derailed them.

I think there may have been an overall plan on JJ’s part. The biggest failing of RoS is that it feels bloated. They rush through too much too fast, and it seems like JJ was trying to do “his” Episode VIII in addition to Episode IX. I don’t think the Sequel Trilogy would be as poorly regarded if JJ were allowed to do VII-IX.

Rian Johnson’s script just didn’t fit. His vision of Star Wars could have worked and been really revolutionary had they given him control from the start.

Instead he took a hard left in the middle of a story he didn’t plan, and it doesn’t work."*

JJ’s plan was probably crap and Rian realized that it was crap.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I think having someone else do 9 would’ve alleviated that. As it turned out, it feels like a well-executed but shallow opening, an interesting shake-up with the power of myth, then a return with a vengeance to shallow that tries to sidestep the meat of the trilogy.

If you like JJ better, RJ’s chapter is gonna stand out as the spoiled meat in the sandwhich. And if you like RJ, JJ seems like he slapped pop tarts on either side of roast beef.

JEDIT:

BedeHistory731 said:

JJ’s plan was probably crap and Rian realized that it was crap.

lol, indeed.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

Author
Time

Anyway I don’t how anyone of this belongs in this thread. Put it somewhere else where I can ignore it.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

When fans give the story more thought than the writers.
Sigh

I mean that’s not really true though.

I’d say it’s true in relation to JJ Abrams’ writing.

Just because the final product ended up in a certain simplified way doesn’t thought wasn’t put into its development.

Agreed. I’m sure it was thought over extensively in development, but there isn’t much hope when the man in charge is JJ Abrams. He’s always gonna pick the dumber, more nostalgic route.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Leia creating the First Order would only work if the First Order were very, very different. Leia should not be the ultimate force behind a genocidal fascist regime that destroys planets.

And it has to have more substance than just a reveal. Just leaving it at that is a “Buh-whaaa??” moment and nothing else.

Death of the Author

Author
Time

Yeah, that’s what I was trying to go with in my idea. Leia created the First Order as a small terrorist force for the Republic to band against, but when Snoke took over it mutated into a genocidal empire. That caused Leia to reconsider her belief that war is a necessary evil, and led to her founding the Resistance to oppose the regime she accidentally created.

My preferred saga experience:
ANH (4K77), ESB (Harmy), ROTJ (4K83).
Everything else is optional.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

JJ’s plan was probably crap and Rian realized that it was crap.

Absolutely.

Yeah, that’s what I was trying to go with in my idea. Leia created the First Order as a small terrorist force for the Republic to band against, but when Snoke took over it mutated into a genocidal empire. That caused Leia to reconsider her belief that war is a necessary evil, and led to her founding the Resistance to oppose the regime she accidentally created.

Exactly. It’s about her starting the First Order as a small strawman to unite against, then Snoke turning them into a legitimate threat.