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The Usual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 24

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OutboundFlight said:

INCOMING: LONG POST
I’ve thought long and hard about to fanedit the Sequel Trilogy. Before TROS I was hoping to create my own radical edit that brought together the themes of all three movies and make them equal to the OT for me. But with TROS, I’ve realized the ST really has no point, because it all ends in the same spot as Episode Six. We don’t need three more episodes to the Skywalker Saga.

But I don’t want to just abandon these movies. There’s individual moments that are great! So after a long, while thinking, here’s how I’d fanedit the ST.

IMG

Instead of a full episode to the Skywalker Saga, this would be more an anthology, to be viewed after the happy ending of Episode Six.

“At last the work of generations is complete. The great error is corrected. The day of victory is at hand. The Day of revenge. The day of the Sith!”

The edit opens with Palpatine’s message, followed by the awakening of a fleet of Star Destroyers. One jumps to Coruscant, the New Republic Capital, and destroys it with a single blast.

IMG

Cut to black.

The “long time ago” text becomes a Blade Runner title crawl (like Solo):

The unthinkable has occurred.
The New Republic is dead,
destroyed by the remnants of
the Old Empire: the FIRST ORDER.

Led by the Emperor’s secret
apprentice, Snoke, and Kylo Ren,
the child of Han and Leia Skywalker,
the First Order commands a fleet
of mobile planet killers: the
ultimate technological terror.

Few oppose them. They are the
RESISTANCE, a final stand against
evil. But they cannot win this
fight alone. They need hope.

And so as the Skywalker Saga
comes to a close, it would appear
the fate of the galaxy lies in
the hands of the last jedi:
the missing LUKE SKYWALKER…

IMG

Forgive me. I feel it again. The call to the light.

Our first real scene is Kylo Ren and Vader. This immediately connects us to the rest of the saga and Vader. We also see Kylo’s struggle. Kylo leaves the room and we instantly transition to the opening of TFA - the Stormtroopers prepare their assault over Jakku.

IMG

Poe Dameron acquires the map to Luke Skywalker. TFA then plays out in its normal manner: Poe is caught, Finn defects, and BB8 calls into the hands of a random scavenger. All references to Rey’s parents being important will be cut: she is a nobody in this version, designed as an insult to Ben’s obsession with family heritage.

The Rathar Scene would be cut, but everything else in The Force Awakens remains as is up until the third act. Starkiller is cut and replaced with Kylo Ren’s castle.

IMG

This would be the hardest part of the edit to pull off, but an overall cold tint would be applied to these exterior shots and a normal ice planet be used for establishing planet shots. The effect would be removing the ultra Death Star from the Sequels.

Finn, who has been trying to run the entire time, leads a rescue mission for Rey. Han is killed in the process, which Kylo believes will cement his turn to the dark side, but he is wrong, and Rey accepts her destiny with the force and defeats him in battle.

IMG

And all of a sudden we are in the land of The Last Jedi. Thankfully this movie takes place right after the one before, so unlike TROS, it is easier to link them up. Both Kylo and Rey meet disappointment with their “masters”. Luke, from which the entire crux of the story was built on, refuses to help, and Kylo’s descent into darkness only makes him more conflicted.

The whole Resistance subplot isn’t shown at all. Keep in mind up to this point, the main characters have been: Rey, Finn, and Kylo. No need for minor character Poe to be upgraded to character arc in the third act. And Finn was just taken out of the story with his medical injuries, the injuries will remain while the Resistance is being chased, and he is only seen again in the “rocks” moment on Crait, where Rey and Finn embrace.

IMG

One random idea I have is for instead of Leia suddenly using the force, when she had no show of it beforehand, it be Ben who saves her life. I think this would add a real level of humanity to Kylo.

So the movie is all building to Rey and Kylo meeting Snoke. In this edit, the crawl will establish him as the Secret Apprentice to Palpatine, sorta a backup plan in case Vader went awol. There’s no reason to explain much more. Snoke is a stand-in for “evil emperor”, and I think this works better in an individual epilogue than a full episodic trilogy because it doesn’t need to explain everything. It can be symbolic of society constantly facing the same demons, without any of the episodic “fun fun fun” subplots being intertwined.

IMG

Luke is redeemed by Yoda in a final teaching moment of Star Wars, and suddenly, the Epilogue has more meaning. Yes, the Empire is theoretically at its strongest, but that does not mean we need to curl up and die. The meaning of the Jedi has never been about saving the galaxy, but providing hope for the galaxy. This would really contextualize Eps 1-6 not as this huge event but one of many Star Wars, and give the Epilogue a purpose in the overall story.

Kylo doesn’t have to be redeemed. The ending would be more ambiguous. The First Order won the fight, but the Resistance won the Skywalker Saga. The final scene of TROS would be moved up to show Rey, a nobody, taking up the Skywalker mantra, not Kylo. But the last scene in the Epilogue, imo, should be the broom boy, intercut with shots of Young Anakin, Luke and Rey all watching the stars.

IMG

I know a lot of these themes are presented in The Last Jedi, but I think an Epilogue Anthology would suit the story better. For one, having it be Episode 8 implies Episode 9 is going to end the war in a different way when it doesn’t. I also didn’t like the Resistance in TLJ. But the bigger issue I have is episodic films are expected to be continuations of the story, and Ep 7 doesn’t really take up where you would expect. A more introspective spin-off/epilogue would accomplish the themes of TLJ better.

I really love this. Is this something you’re interested in actually implementing?

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Lifeincontext said:

OutboundFlight said:

INCOMING: LONG POST
I’ve thought long and hard about to fanedit the Sequel Trilogy. Before TROS I was hoping to create my own radical edit that brought together the themes of all three movies and make them equal to the OT for me. But with TROS, I’ve realized the ST really has no point, because it all ends in the same spot as Episode Six. We don’t need three more episodes to the Skywalker Saga.

But I don’t want to just abandon these movies. There’s individual moments that are great! So after a long, while thinking, here’s how I’d fanedit the ST.

IMG

Instead of a full episode to the Skywalker Saga, this would be more an anthology, to be viewed after the happy ending of Episode Six.

“At last the work of generations is complete. The great error is corrected. The day of victory is at hand. The Day of revenge. The day of the Sith!”

The edit opens with Palpatine’s message, followed by the awakening of a fleet of Star Destroyers. One jumps to Coruscant, the New Republic Capital, and destroys it with a single blast.

IMG

Cut to black.

The “long time ago” text becomes a Blade Runner title crawl (like Solo):

The unthinkable has occurred.
The New Republic is dead,
destroyed by the remnants of
the Old Empire: the FIRST ORDER.

Led by the Emperor’s secret
apprentice, Snoke, and Kylo Ren,
the child of Han and Leia Skywalker,
the First Order commands a fleet
of mobile planet killers: the
ultimate technological terror.

Few oppose them. They are the
RESISTANCE, a final stand against
evil. But they cannot win this
fight alone. They need hope.

And so as the Skywalker Saga
comes to a close, it would appear
the fate of the galaxy lies in
the hands of the last jedi:
the missing LUKE SKYWALKER…

IMG

Forgive me. I feel it again. The call to the light.

Our first real scene is Kylo Ren and Vader. This immediately connects us to the rest of the saga and Vader. We also see Kylo’s struggle. Kylo leaves the room and we instantly transition to the opening of TFA - the Stormtroopers prepare their assault over Jakku.

IMG

Poe Dameron acquires the map to Luke Skywalker. TFA then plays out in its normal manner: Poe is caught, Finn defects, and BB8 calls into the hands of a random scavenger. All references to Rey’s parents being important will be cut: she is a nobody in this version, designed as an insult to Ben’s obsession with family heritage.

The Rathar Scene would be cut, but everything else in The Force Awakens remains as is up until the third act. Starkiller is cut and replaced with Kylo Ren’s castle.

IMG

This would be the hardest part of the edit to pull off, but an overall cold tint would be applied to these exterior shots and a normal ice planet be used for establishing planet shots. The effect would be removing the ultra Death Star from the Sequels.

Finn, who has been trying to run the entire time, leads a rescue mission for Rey. Han is killed in the process, which Kylo believes will cement his turn to the dark side, but he is wrong, and Rey accepts her destiny with the force and defeats him in battle.

IMG

And all of a sudden we are in the land of The Last Jedi. Thankfully this movie takes place right after the one before, so unlike TROS, it is easier to link them up. Both Kylo and Rey meet disappointment with their “masters”. Luke, from which the entire crux of the story was built on, refuses to help, and Kylo’s descent into darkness only makes him more conflicted.

The whole Resistance subplot isn’t shown at all. Keep in mind up to this point, the main characters have been: Rey, Finn, and Kylo. No need for minor character Poe to be upgraded to character arc in the third act. And Finn was just taken out of the story with his medical injuries, the injuries will remain while the Resistance is being chased, and he is only seen again in the “rocks” moment on Crait, where Rey and Finn embrace.

IMG

One random idea I have is for instead of Leia suddenly using the force, when she had no show of it beforehand, it be Ben who saves her life. I think this would add a real level of humanity to Kylo.

So the movie is all building to Rey and Kylo meeting Snoke. In this edit, the crawl will establish him as the Secret Apprentice to Palpatine, sorta a backup plan in case Vader went awol. There’s no reason to explain much more. Snoke is a stand-in for “evil emperor”, and I think this works better in an individual epilogue than a full episodic trilogy because it doesn’t need to explain everything. It can be symbolic of society constantly facing the same demons, without any of the episodic “fun fun fun” subplots being intertwined.

IMG

Luke is redeemed by Yoda in a final teaching moment of Star Wars, and suddenly, the Epilogue has more meaning. Yes, the Empire is theoretically at its strongest, but that does not mean we need to curl up and die. The meaning of the Jedi has never been about saving the galaxy, but providing hope for the galaxy. This would really contextualize Eps 1-6 not as this huge event but one of many Star Wars, and give the Epilogue a purpose in the overall story.

Kylo doesn’t have to be redeemed. The ending would be more ambiguous. The First Order won the fight, but the Resistance won the Skywalker Saga. The final scene of TROS would be moved up to show Rey, a nobody, taking up the Skywalker mantra, not Kylo. But the last scene in the Epilogue, imo, should be the broom boy, intercut with shots of Young Anakin, Luke and Rey all watching the stars.

IMG

I know a lot of these themes are presented in The Last Jedi, but I think an Epilogue Anthology would suit the story better. For one, having it be Episode 8 implies Episode 9 is going to end the war in a different way when it doesn’t. I also didn’t like the Resistance in TLJ. But the bigger issue I have is episodic films are expected to be continuations of the story, and Ep 7 doesn’t really take up where you would expect. A more introspective spin-off/epilogue would accomplish the themes of TLJ better.

I really love this. Is this something you’re interested in actually implementing?

Yes! I’m a bit busy irl atm, but I wouldn’t mind doing this in a couple months!

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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With the Sith Wayfinder in TROS it would be really cool to see an illustration of it in the Jedi Texts in TLJ. It wouldn’t be too terribly convenient either since Luke was supposedly looking for Exegol before going after the First Jedi Temple, so he would have reason to turn to that page.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

Author
Time

OutboundFlight said:

Lifeincontext said:

OutboundFlight said:

INCOMING: LONG POST
I’ve thought long and hard about to fanedit the Sequel Trilogy. Before TROS I was hoping to create my own radical edit that brought together the themes of all three movies and make them equal to the OT for me. But with TROS, I’ve realized the ST really has no point, because it all ends in the same spot as Episode Six. We don’t need three more episodes to the Skywalker Saga.

But I don’t want to just abandon these movies. There’s individual moments that are great! So after a long, while thinking, here’s how I’d fanedit the ST.

IMG

Instead of a full episode to the Skywalker Saga, this would be more an anthology, to be viewed after the happy ending of Episode Six.

“At last the work of generations is complete. The great error is corrected. The day of victory is at hand. The Day of revenge. The day of the Sith!”

The edit opens with Palpatine’s message, followed by the awakening of a fleet of Star Destroyers. One jumps to Coruscant, the New Republic Capital, and destroys it with a single blast.

IMG

Cut to black.

The “long time ago” text becomes a Blade Runner title crawl (like Solo):

The unthinkable has occurred.
The New Republic is dead,
destroyed by the remnants of
the Old Empire: the FIRST ORDER.

Led by the Emperor’s secret
apprentice, Snoke, and Kylo Ren,
the child of Han and Leia Skywalker,
the First Order commands a fleet
of mobile planet killers: the
ultimate technological terror.

Few oppose them. They are the
RESISTANCE, a final stand against
evil. But they cannot win this
fight alone. They need hope.

And so as the Skywalker Saga
comes to a close, it would appear
the fate of the galaxy lies in
the hands of the last jedi:
the missing LUKE SKYWALKER…

IMG

Forgive me. I feel it again. The call to the light.

Our first real scene is Kylo Ren and Vader. This immediately connects us to the rest of the saga and Vader. We also see Kylo’s struggle. Kylo leaves the room and we instantly transition to the opening of TFA - the Stormtroopers prepare their assault over Jakku.

IMG

Poe Dameron acquires the map to Luke Skywalker. TFA then plays out in its normal manner: Poe is caught, Finn defects, and BB8 calls into the hands of a random scavenger. All references to Rey’s parents being important will be cut: she is a nobody in this version, designed as an insult to Ben’s obsession with family heritage.

The Rathar Scene would be cut, but everything else in The Force Awakens remains as is up until the third act. Starkiller is cut and replaced with Kylo Ren’s castle.

IMG

This would be the hardest part of the edit to pull off, but an overall cold tint would be applied to these exterior shots and a normal ice planet be used for establishing planet shots. The effect would be removing the ultra Death Star from the Sequels.

Finn, who has been trying to run the entire time, leads a rescue mission for Rey. Han is killed in the process, which Kylo believes will cement his turn to the dark side, but he is wrong, and Rey accepts her destiny with the force and defeats him in battle.

IMG

And all of a sudden we are in the land of The Last Jedi. Thankfully this movie takes place right after the one before, so unlike TROS, it is easier to link them up. Both Kylo and Rey meet disappointment with their “masters”. Luke, from which the entire crux of the story was built on, refuses to help, and Kylo’s descent into darkness only makes him more conflicted.

The whole Resistance subplot isn’t shown at all. Keep in mind up to this point, the main characters have been: Rey, Finn, and Kylo. No need for minor character Poe to be upgraded to character arc in the third act. And Finn was just taken out of the story with his medical injuries, the injuries will remain while the Resistance is being chased, and he is only seen again in the “rocks” moment on Crait, where Rey and Finn embrace.

IMG

One random idea I have is for instead of Leia suddenly using the force, when she had no show of it beforehand, it be Ben who saves her life. I think this would add a real level of humanity to Kylo.

So the movie is all building to Rey and Kylo meeting Snoke. In this edit, the crawl will establish him as the Secret Apprentice to Palpatine, sorta a backup plan in case Vader went awol. There’s no reason to explain much more. Snoke is a stand-in for “evil emperor”, and I think this works better in an individual epilogue than a full episodic trilogy because it doesn’t need to explain everything. It can be symbolic of society constantly facing the same demons, without any of the episodic “fun fun fun” subplots being intertwined.

IMG

Luke is redeemed by Yoda in a final teaching moment of Star Wars, and suddenly, the Epilogue has more meaning. Yes, the Empire is theoretically at its strongest, but that does not mean we need to curl up and die. The meaning of the Jedi has never been about saving the galaxy, but providing hope for the galaxy. This would really contextualize Eps 1-6 not as this huge event but one of many Star Wars, and give the Epilogue a purpose in the overall story.

Kylo doesn’t have to be redeemed. The ending would be more ambiguous. The First Order won the fight, but the Resistance won the Skywalker Saga. The final scene of TROS would be moved up to show Rey, a nobody, taking up the Skywalker mantra, not Kylo. But the last scene in the Epilogue, imo, should be the broom boy, intercut with shots of Young Anakin, Luke and Rey all watching the stars.

IMG

I know a lot of these themes are presented in The Last Jedi, but I think an Epilogue Anthology would suit the story better. For one, having it be Episode 8 implies Episode 9 is going to end the war in a different way when it doesn’t. I also didn’t like the Resistance in TLJ. But the bigger issue I have is episodic films are expected to be continuations of the story, and Ep 7 doesn’t really take up where you would expect. A more introspective spin-off/epilogue would accomplish the themes of TLJ better.

I really love this. Is this something you’re interested in actually implementing?

Yes! I’m a bit busy irl atm, but I wouldn’t mind doing this in a couple months!

I’d love to help if you need it!

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Time

NeverarGreat said:

With the Sith Wayfinder in TROS it would be really cool to see an illustration of it in the Jedi Texts in TLJ. It wouldn’t be too terribly convenient either since Luke was supposedly looking for Exegol before going after the First Jedi Temple, so he would have reason to turn to that page.

I think the only time we see one of the texts open is when Luke runs his hand across a page, so you either have to alter that shot or create a new one maybe?

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4throck said:

Octorox said:
I’m not really interested in a trilogy redux as much as a standalone edit of TROS that fits better with the other two.

To get a coherent trilogy, you need a redux.

  • If you like TLJ style, you need to fix mainly FTA & TROS
  • If you like TFA/TROS (those fit well) you need to fix mainly TLJ

Frankly I don’t think TLJ contradicts TFA, it’s really only TLJ and TRoS that cause issues with each other. If yuou’re trying to maintain TLJ, you only really need to mess with TRoS.

Death of the Author

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I agree, aesthetic things and cinematography aside; the story of TLJ interacts with the nuances of TFA.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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Yeah, I think little needs to be done to TFA either way, since it’s a very ‘safe’ film. Either TLJ or TROS can naturally spring from it - it’s just that TLJ and TROS are in conflict. Whatever peoples’ opinions on the films, I think it’s fair to say that TLJ’s approach was “Star Wars can be different than before”, whereas TROS’ was “HEY REMEMBER ALL THAT FAMILIAR STAR WARS YOU LIKE?”

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 (Edited)

One thing that’s really bothered me about the ST is how every film in the trilogy ends on the same piece of music, the “Binary Sunset” theme. If/when I get around to editing this trilogy, that will be top of my list to change.

I think it would be poetic to end TROS on the “Throne Room/Finale” music from ANH, probably utilizing the slower/more epic sounding unused second half of the theme, starting at 3:29 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ca5A-7wy_A

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Recently I have been thinking about Rogue Leaders idea regarding the stormtrooper on Snoke’s ship. I like the idea, but I think such a scene would benefit Finn’s character from TFA better.
In TLJ Finn’s struggle is not to renounce evil and escape, but in TFA it is. So seeing other stormtroopers showing passive resistance would fit TFA better.
In TLJ it would not add much to the story, because Finn’s arc is to fight for a cause bigger than himself and stormtroopers resigning the fight does not enforce this trope.

Luckily I think we could create a scene like this for TFA.
The first shot would be Finn peeking around the corner, the first shot from inside SKB after the arrival of the resistance is almost perfect. Then we will use the shot of the two stormtroopers that evade Kylo’s rage after Rey’s escape. Some vfx may be needed to erase those sparks, although the whole left part of the screen could be covered using a still image. (thank god it’s a static shot 😃 )
This could be intercut with a reaction shot of Finn and maybe a closeup of the stormtroopers lowering their weapons.
What do you think?

“You want to sell me Death sticks” -Obi-Vod Kanobi

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What if we ended TFA on the shot of the Resistance watching Rey leave? It allows for the implication of a time jump, confirmed in a modified crawl for TLJ, during which Rey and Chewie search Ach-To for Luke’s island. Ending on this hsot could also allow for better poetry with TPM and ANH, assumign you can emphasize it as celebratory.

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I wonder what NeverAr’s bleached sand aesthetic would look like applied to Pasaana.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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I think something darker or more dreary would be an interesting look as well.

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What if we changed the format of the titles? It doesn’t have to be radical. I don’t usually like it when prequel re-edits change the titles, because the titles of the prequel films (especially 1 and 2) are uniquely corny and stupid to the point of being great fun, and are all very “Star Wars.” “The Force Awakens” is the weakest title, and is the only one I would change, to “Shadows of the Empire” (already been used, who cares).

Back to format, I think the new movies would benefit from having the numbers being changed from roman numerals to arabic. Episode 7: Shadows of the Empire, followed by Episode 8: The Last Jedi, concluded with Episode 9: The Rise of Skywalker. This de-emphasizes the “Saga” and lets the movies stand on their own as weak sequels to a 6 movie saga, rather than completely out of place.

Comparing Star Wars to The Godfather: The OT and the PT are equivalent of Parts 1 and 2, with the ST being Part 3. Obviously Star Wars: Episode II - Jar Jar’s Big Adventure is much greater than some petty crime drama, but there is a certain wholeness of what is now the original 6 that is absent in the sequels, apart from Last Jedi.

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marsthgodofwar said:

but there is a certain wholeness of what is now the original 6 that is absent in the sequels, apart from Last Jedi.

I think you only think there’s a wholeness between the original Star Wars trilogy and the prequels because you grew up with the prequels just being part of Star Wars, they always were. Am I right in assuming that?

I did too, in fact I actually didn’t even know about episodes four through six until I was older, fun fact, but rewatching them as an adult I don’t feel like they fit together at all, there’s no wholeness and now as an adult, I have a really hard time convincing myself they’re in the same universe. I often think of there being two entirely different Star Wars franchises: The universe of the prequels and the universe of the OT (which also makes it super weird to me when they overlap but that’s not important). At least with the sequels, I can easily see them as part of the same universe, with the same characters.

I don’t feel like that contributed a whole lot to the thread and it’s just me being a dick but IMO that’s not something I agree needs to be done.

Death of the Author

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 (Edited)

SparkySywer said:
Frankly I don’t think TLJ contradicts TFA, it’s really only TLJ and TRoS that cause issues with each other.

Strongly disagree here.
The characters are not the same between TLJ and the other two. It’s like we are seeing alternate universes…

Let’s consider Luke’s sabre. If you go with TLJ take on the universe, the sabre is not important.
But it’s central to TFA and very important in TROS. That’s a contradiction to me 😉

This is not about liking TJL or not. I don’t, but I’d still love to see a ST redux expanding on it’s themes 😃

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The saber is far more important in TLJ than it is in TFA.

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SparkySywer said:
I have a really hard time convincing myself they’re in the same universe.

I feel the same way. Each trilogy is written, edited, and photographed so differently that they don’t work as a whole for me. Stylistically, they just don’t mesh (think Anakin v. Obi-Wan on Mustafar and Vader v. Obi-wan on the Death Star). It’s why I understand GL’s desire to make the special editions, even though I think it was a futile attempt that just made the originals worse.

I look at each trilogy as its own story, loosely connected with the other trilogies. The incongruities are easier for me to forgive that way.

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EddieDean said:

Whatever peoples’ opinions on the films, I think it’s fair to say that TLJ’s approach was “Star Wars can be different than before”, whereas TROS’ was “HEY REMEMBER ALL THAT FAMILIAR STAR WARS YOU LIKE?”

I don’t think that’s fair at all. TLJ moves the Battle of Hoth to the end and brings in the Throne Room from Return of the Jedi, but the plot structure and aesthetic are all the same as ESB. It’s still TIE Fighters, AT ATs, Star Destroyers, bulbous rebel transports, leaving in the middle of training, offers of “join me.”

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How could we reduce all this excessive “poetry” (read: plagiarism)? How do we make the plots feel different enough?

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What if in TLJ, we intercut between Rey and Kylo for a training montage? Luke teaches Rey Jedi stuff while Snoke tasks Kylo with retrieving a Sith artifact on Mustafar to prove himself. Hell, maybe remove the artifact and have this taking place in Snoke’s garden (hence the trees), with Snoke watching. That way it would look more like training.

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Vladius said:

EddieDean said:

Whatever peoples’ opinions on the films, I think it’s fair to say that TLJ’s approach was “Star Wars can be different than before”, whereas TROS’ was “HEY REMEMBER ALL THAT FAMILIAR STAR WARS YOU LIKE?”

I don’t think that’s fair at all. TLJ moves the Battle of Hoth to the end and brings in the Throne Room from Return of the Jedi, but the plot structure and aesthetic are all the same as ESB. It’s still TIE Fighters, AT ATs, Star Destroyers, bulbous rebel transports, leaving in the middle of training, offers of “join me.”

That’s a valid point. I do wish the ST hadn’t borrowed quite so much of the aesthetic of the originals. It’s why I was excited at the news that Rian Johnson was getting his own trilogy, because I got the feeling that he could do Star Wars without necessarily borrowing so many elements directly.