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The Usual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread - * TROS SPOILERS WITHIN * — Page 30

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Do you think it’d be possible to color-correct the entirety of Snoke’s robes to appear black rather than golden in The Last Jedi?

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

AOTC and ROTS still have unreleased deleted scenes (scripted and filmed, and included in the comic and novelisation) 15 years later.

Please tell me all about them.

I’m probably forgetting a few but from ROTS there’s a scene of Obi Wan and Padme meeting (the one Anakin refers to in the final cut), a cut comedic moment where Threepio carries unconscious Padme to the ship, lots of cut little extra lines or bits of lines, a cut scene where Yoda hides from clones, some extra bits of Anakin killing separatists like Wat Tambor, and of course all the pre reshoots Anakin stuff where he watches Mace and Palpatine. Most of this can be found in the script you can find online, in the comic adaptation, and in various BTS shots, all of which I can dig up for you some other time if you can’t find them on Google. From AOTC there’s a scene of Yoda and Mace talking in a hallway, a different scene of Anakin and Padme arriving at the Villa by boat (at the other dock), Mace’s original office with a desk, and some other things not presently located at the top of my head.

Edit: This site has all the info. Go back a few pages for prequels.

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Did anybody ever thought about getting rid of Palpatine entirely? Since his appearance really is an offense to the OT, if not the entire saga… (I think this is definite a step in the right direction).

Also, what is your opinion on the posibility of going even a step further and also removing Snoke from the ST, making Kylo the lone antagonist of the trilogy?

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It’s an option. But if you remove Palpatine entirely you lose the majority of TROS. There’re probably some that can be used elsewhere, but you’re more looking at butchering TROS and putting elements of it into a changed TLJ, than retaining a three movie structure. You potentially could drop the entire Canto Bight plot if you needed to make space for new content. The challenge then is in finding a solid conclusion to the duology, making TLJ’s ending serve as the series ending - which as in my original post on this idea, I reckon you can only really satisfy with a Rey/Kylo confrontation.

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I would be totally fine with any sort of duology rather than a trilogy as long as it serves its purpose instead of diminish everything that was before.
That said, I would think of it more as an epilogue to a saga that imo was concluded satisfactory. Some kind of a reminder that balance is nothing permanent and you (as an anybody -> nobody) have to fight for it. It was mentioned here before, but a title like “Shadows Of The Empire” or “Shadows Of The Dark Side” would actually be quite fitting.

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I’ve thought about the sequel trilogy becoming more of an epilogue, but IMO it doesn’t justify itself well enough. The original characters in the sequel trilogy are (rightly) used to progress the new characters’ stories, and taken as a continuation of the original trilogy I don’t it serves to do what an epilogue should - to wrap up loose ends, to give closure. The only original trilogy character with new development is Luke, but his story in the absence of the main plot doesn’t really serve as a capper. Taken as an epilogue I think it would also undo some of the closure of the end of Return of the Jedi - a second Empire! Death Star 3! Another evil darkside guy! - it’s too samey so it undoes a lot of the progress made by the end of that film.

The best parts of the sequels were the new characters and their stories together - especially Rey and Kylo. The original trilogy characters’ stories in relation to our new mains were valid and valuable. The new threats - while almost exclusively old threats BUT MORE POWERFUL - at least gave our new characters good storylines in their own right, which goes most of the way towards justifying their existence (your mileage may vary).

In short, I think that the sequels have to be able to justify their own existence, otherwise why bother? I think the problem that we’re all mulling over on these forums lately is that TROS largely doesn’t justify existing, and it retroactively weakens the argument of the prior films by failing to deliver.

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The story of the ST really hinged on whether 9 delivered or not, if they went with duel of the fates they would have at least established a purpose for this trilogy - the idea of balance in the force and the FO civil war. Unfortunately TROS shattered all that was built up in the previous two films and brought us back to the status-quo, deeming this trilogy Irrelevant.

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Yeah. It’s such a shame that Finn’s story went nowhere too. That storyline had so much potential.

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I´m 100% with you. Aside from the well-known-but-mostly-successful-edited flaws of VII and VIII I really enjoyed the Sequels to that point. There was potential, but with TROS as it is it all feels so meaningless (if not insulting). I would love to leave VII and VIII as they are and conclude them with a meaningful Episode IX, but I just don’t know if there is enough flesh to work with in TROS…

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I think how the films could be edited all comes down to personal preference. Some might be fine with the ST as a single epilogue film, or as a duology, but personally I would feel like something would always feel missing. Unlike removing Rey Palpatine, which I think is doable, I believe removing Palpatine entirely from the film would be either impossible, or the amount of excision needed would leave the film unsatisfying.

I think the better option is to go in the opposite direction and add elements to the previous films to better set up his revival. Poppasketti has already done this to some extent by adding subtle hints to his TLJ edit, but I could also see future editors adding details to Return of the Jedi as well as The Force Awakens to hint at this as well. If you want to have a nine-film saga, then I think it would be simpler to retcon previous films to improve the cohesiveness of the whole story, rather than almost entirely re-edit the sequel films to better fit the original.

But I can understand why people would want to do the latter. The original films are great, and in a perfect world shouldn’t be changed to accommodate the less-than-perfect sequel/prequel films. But in terms of practicality, it would be easier to to make smaller changes throughout the nine films, including the OT, in order to improve the continuity of the entire saga, rather than attempt to make major structural changes to the sequels/prequels to better fit the sacredness of the original trilogy.

For example, I think it would be better to remove the galaxy-wide celebration at the end of ROTJ to better leave the following political situation more open ended. Maybe hints to Palpatine’s contingency or survival could be added to the various throne room scenes. Or in the case of the prequels, dialogue could be changed throughout the OT better fit what is established in the prequels. This might be distasteful for some, but I think the OT films, whether you watch the GUOT or Adywan’s, or Harmy’s, they will always work as a standalone trilogy in itself that allows you to fill in the before and after with canon, the Expanded Universe, or your own headcanon. But since we have nine films in the saga, I personally would love to eventually see edits of all nine films that makes the entire story feel as natural and cohesive as we can possibly make it.

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I believe removing Palpatine entirely from the film would be either impossible, or the amount of excision needed would leave the film unsatisfying.

He doesn’t have that many scenes, and you could have Kylo do all the legwork since he pretty much already does.

Regardless, I prefer having Palpatine. In fact, I’m extremely thankful he’s there. The story just wouldn’t have felt like a meaningful part of the Saga without him.

As for editing the Originals, I have no restraint. Nothing is sacred here. I hold all the films to equal scrutiny. What I value is a cohesive nine film saga.

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I personally don’t think you can remove a lot of the problem elements of TRoS without getting into radical territory. Which is fine, this is the radical redux thread, but a conservative HAL9000-type edit of TRoS that removes the stuff we don’t like is not something I think is possible.

I agree with RogueLeader, the only thing you really can do is try and set them up better in TLJ and TFA.

Death of the Author

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I agree with you, Rogueleader. I’ve always been in the camp of ‘all Star Wars is better than any particular Star Wars’, and that the tweaks that we make should preserve as much of the whole unifying story as possible. I would absolutely prefer to have an acceptable TROS with Palpatine than cut the movie entirely, I just think that that movie leaves so, so much to be desired that I think it’s worth exploring the option - at least in a Radical thread. Certainly I think the biggest necessary question (and the one with the biggest set of follow-up questions) is whether or not to retain Palpatine.

If we keep TROS and Palpatine, then our next questions are how to make that movie (and the sequels) cohesive, and you’re right that even dipping into the ending of ROTJ is sensible.

I think the biggest technical challenge in terms of improving TROS is having Finn’s arc worth something.

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I would like to remove Palpatine and Exegol. My version would focus on the way-finders which Palpatine used to search for the origin of the dark side. During the fight in the Deathstar the FO would attack the Rebellion and the civil fleet would join them. After Bens defeat Rey would transmit the code to surrender from Bens tie-fighter to the FO. The movie would end after Ben and Rey destroyed both way-finders and their weapons.

“You want to sell me Death sticks” -Obi-Vod Kanobi

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Peter Pan said:

I would like to remove Palpatine and Exegol. My version would focus on the way-finders which Palpatine used to search for the origin of the dark side. During the fight in the Deathstar the FO would attack the Rebellion and the civil fleet would join them. After Bens defeat Rey would transmit the code to surrender from Bens tie-fighter to the FO. The movie would end after Ben and Rey destroyed both way-finders and their weapons.

Yeah, I was thinking about something like this, too! I’m currently trying to work this out, but basically I had the same idea like you.
Hopefully there will be a lot of cut scenes to add once the movie gets released, or maybe one could add some unused material from elsewere.

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I have a plan for a very radical edit that combines TLJ and ROS to make one good movie, hopefully solving many of the flaws I see with both. It changes the story overall to be about Lukes redemption.

I have worked out most of the required scenes and I think it will be doable (even though it will surely feel quite fan-edity at times).

PART 1
(Basically TLJ with all resistance scenes cut)
Rey trains on the island with Luke
Rey goes to face Kylo and Snoke
Kylo kills Snoke
Kylo and Rey reach out their hands
Cut to black

PART 2
(Basically ROS with no wayfinder chase and Luke saves the day in the end)
Kylo meets the emperor
Poe and Finn get message from the space iceberg (aka SpaceBerg)
Rey trains with Leia
Poe returns and reveals that Palpatine is on Exigol
Rey goes to DSII to find wayfinder to Exigol
Rey finds wayfinder and Kylo crushes it
Rey and Kylo duel
Leia dies
Kylo gets KILLED by Rey
Rey steals Kylos ship and goes to face the emperor alone
Poe follows Rey to Exegol
Luke talks to Leias ghost and gets encouraged to join the fight
Luke burns the Jedi tree
The space battle is going well
Emperor zaps the fleet
Rey kills emperor (with luke helping through the force)
REY DIES
The space battle is being lost
Luke does the holdo maneuver (or uses the force to help explode ships)
Rebels win
LUKE DIES
Rebels celebrate
Broom boy (Showing that even though the jedi are dead, the force lives on)

I would love to hear any feedback! There is a lot here and I have basically zero experience with video editing so I have a long road ahead. I feel passionate that this edit solves many of the problems with both movies: (Meaningful deaths, Minimal McGuffins, Rey is not invincible, Not everyone can be redeemed, Rey is nobody, Redeeming luke, etc.)

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CassusFett said:

Meaningful deaths, Minimal McGuffins, Rey is not invincible, Not everyone can be redeemed, Rey is nobody, Redeeming luke, etc.

These thoughts are beautiful! Love it! Reys dead is sure radical, but reasonable

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I think that entirely works, except for Rey’s death. I’d be sorry to lose some of the good Resistance scenes from TLJ but you’re right that they’re not vital to the core of what you’re trying to do here. I’d keep Rey alive though, mainly because it’s one of the few things that’s likely to remain important in the supporting Star Wars media for at least a few years - though that may not be a priority for you.

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I explained myself here about how I see Rey as the personification of the balance in the force. Therefore I’m fine with her not dying (well, or dying and then getting revived as something else), but I would be ok with it. I like her character, sure, but I also like a purposeful death to the hero.

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Thanks! You are definitely making me think. I like your thoughts on Rey coming to represent the balance and I think that’s what they were going for, but I think they wanted to have it both ways. Rey clearly denied Kylo many times, and she only accepted him once he came to the light. She turns her saber yellow, but I didnt buy it at that point. I think her character is too dead set on the light side of the force, and so to me she clearly represents the Jedi.

I will attempt to portray her death as victorious and satisfying. She will bring balance to the force by destroying palpatine and herself.

I want to (somehow) add a few lines suggesting that she knows she will die and she chooses to sacrifice herself to defeat the Sith. Thereby completing her arc. She has to sacrifice the future of the Jedi in order to save the Galaxy.

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CassusFett said:

Thanks! You are definitely making me think. I like your thoughts on Rey coming to represent the balance and I think that’s what they were going for, but I think they wanted to have it both ways. Rey clearly denied Kylo many times, and she only accepted him once he came to the light. She turns her saber yellow, but I didnt buy it at that point. I think her character is too dead set on the light side of the force, and so to me she clearly represents the Jedi.

I will attempt to portray her death as victorious and satisfying. She will bring balance to the force by destroying palpatine and herself.

Yeah!

I want to (somehow) add a few lines suggesting that she knows she will die and she chooses to sacrifice herself to defeat the Sith. Thereby completing her arc. She has to sacrifice the future of the Jedi in order to save the Galaxy.

Maybe this could be acomplished by hearing her thoughts/memories (instead of or in addition to the jedis-of-the-past-voices) right before she sacrifices herself: You could hear Luke saying “it’s time for the jedi to end” and/or Kylo saying “let the past die. Kill it, if you have to” (both lines from TLJ). She then smiles, showing that she understands and accepts her destiny, and subsequently dies while killing Palpatine (I’m thinking of a scene similar to Obi Wan vs Vader in ANH).

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Cool link! I feel like barely heard any of this in the movie.

This is a random idea that probably would look weird. But what if we recolored the Starkiller Base laser from red to blue or white? It might seem weird, since blue or white aren’t “bad” or intimidating colors, but I was thinking that the weapon could be portrayed as a literal “hyperspace canon”. So instead of it being another Kyber crystal-powered super laser, they have basically weaponized hyperspace. So maybe a hyperspace light effect could be applied to the laser, as well as distorted hyperspace sound effects. Maybe it wouldn’t work, but I think it could make Starkiller Base more interesting at least.

EDIT: It would also parallel Holdo’s hyperspace kamikaze in a fun way. Both sides weaponized hyperspace in different ways, and destroyed each other’s capitals (since the Supremacy was described as a moving capital for the First Order).