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The Usual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread - * TROS SPOILERS WITHIN * — Page 26

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DuracellEnergizer said:

OutboundFlight said:

I don’t see why not.

IMG

Which could be a hyperbolic statement.

But nah, take everything everyone says in these silly movies 110% literally. Then ask why Palpatine funnelled money into the Death Stars instead of just tearing planets apart with the Force.

Palpatine never truly understood the force. He thought of it as a means to power, like how we harness the natural laws of gravity to increase space-flight times: whereas the Jedi respect it, and understand its full potential.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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If Yoda’s stronger, why didn’t he take on Palpatine himself?

Regardless we’re getting off topic. What if Snoke was a senator in the New Republic and that’s where the money was coming from. He has a whole planet’s economy backing him.

Which reminds me, I’ve always thought TFA should’ve present the New Republic as divided in a proxy war between those funding the Resistance and those funding the First Order. It would explain why the Republic military doesn’t directly interfere: it’s officially neutral. Of course the First Order blows up the Senate and from there it’s open warfare.

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OutboundFlight said:

I don’t see why not.

We don’t talk about it because The Force Unleashed is probably the worst piece of Star Wars media ever. It exaggerates the Force so much in an attempt to make a cool game that it makes the Jedi seem like gods, which is a complete betrayal of the principles of the OT. It raises so many questions. Why did Palpatine build the Death Star if he could just destroy planets using the force? Why did Luke need to use grappling hooks to bring down AT-ATs if he could just destroy them using the Force? The Force Unleashed completely betrays the principles of the Force set up by the OT, and that’s why I hate it.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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I was thinking about radical reordering to the trilogy, and toying with the idea of having Palpatine’s return be a ‘sidequest’ of Snoke’s as part of Kylo’s training. Sort of ‘I’ve detected a rival Sith, go deal with them for me’. That way you could keep some of Palpatine without it being an unsatisfying attempt to put a capper on the Skywalker saga, and keep it framed as part of this new, different story. Does anyone have any thoughts about that?

That got me on to thinking about any other kind of radical restructures we might have available to us. And fundamentally, any such option needs to first ask the question: What arcs are sufficient to build a trilogy (or duology or whatever) around? And the problem with the sequel trilogy is, nearly nobody has a satisfying arc. To my mind you have:

REY:
A nobody gets dragged into a destiny, shows force proficiency, becomes Luke Skywalker’s hope for the future of the Jedi, develops a relationship with the conflicted Kylo Ren (who exploits her nothingness to gain her power), grows in power, tracks down and kills a half-reborn Palpatine (who she learns she was related to all along), nearly dies but is saved by Kylo, declares herself Skywalker. It’s our second-strongest arc but Palpatine comes out of nowhere and other than the revelation that she’s related to him, her defeat of him doesn’t contribute to her growth.

KYLO REN:
The legacy of Vader wishes to emulate him, gains power under Snoke, is conflicted by his killing of his father, develops a relationship with the suprisingly powerful Rey, kills Snoke to gain more power, is conflicted by his meeting fails to convince Rey to join him for evil, is conflicted by his relationship with Luke Skywalker, finds and submits to Palpatine, then turns to the light, gets nearly killed by Palpatine, then dies to kill an injured Rey.
It’s our strongest arc but Palpatine comes out of nowhere, and isn’t relevant to his character arc.

Taking the above two alone, the strongest story between them is that they meet each other, develop this awkward relationship, turn on Snoke (for different reasons), attempt to convince each other of their philosophies, then Kylo turns to the light, and they defeat Palpatine. But again, that Palpatine ending just isn’t satisfying. I feel like the Palpatine and Snoke kills should be punctual steps on their journey together, but which utimately end with them in conflict with one another. I’m trying to think of moments which could be used as the punctual final point of their story. There’s the moment when they fight and Rey appears to kill Kylo (before healing him). But that’s about where I can’t take the thought any further.

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EddieDean said:

I was thinking about radical reordering to the trilogy, and toying with the idea of having Palpatine’s return be a ‘sidequest’ of Snoke’s as part of Kylo’s training. Sort of ‘I’ve detected a rival Sith, go deal with them for me’. That way you could keep some of Palpatine without it being an unsatisfying attempt to put a capper on the Skywalker saga, and keep it framed as part of this new, different story. Does anyone have any thoughts about that?

That got me on to thinking about any other kind of radical restructures we might have available to us. And fundamentally, any such option needs to first ask the question: What arcs are sufficient to build a trilogy (or duology or whatever) around? And the problem with the sequel trilogy is, nearly nobody has a satisfying arc. To my mind you have:

REY:
A nobody gets dragged into a destiny, shows force proficiency, becomes Luke Skywalker’s hope for the future of the Jedi, develops a relationship with the conflicted Kylo Ren (who exploits her nothingness to gain her power), grows in power, tracks down and kills a half-reborn Palpatine (who she learns she was related to all along), nearly dies but is saved by Kylo, declares herself Skywalker. It’s our second-strongest arc but Palpatine comes out of nowhere and other than the revelation that she’s related to him, her defeat of him doesn’t contribute to her growth.

KYLO REN:
The legacy of Vader wishes to emulate him, gains power under Snoke, is conflicted by his killing of his father, develops a relationship with the suprisingly powerful Rey, kills Snoke to gain more power, is conflicted by his meeting fails to convince Rey to join him for evil, is conflicted by his relationship with Luke Skywalker, finds and submits to Palpatine, then turns to the light, gets nearly killed by Palpatine, then dies to kill an injured Rey.
It’s our strongest arc but Palpatine comes out of nowhere, and isn’t relevant to his character arc.

Taking the above two alone, the strongest story between them is that they meet each other, develop this awkward relationship, turn on Snoke (for different reasons), attempt to convince each other of their philosophies, then Kylo turns to the light, and they defeat Palpatine. But again, that Palpatine ending just isn’t satisfying. I feel like the Palpatine and Snoke kills should be punctual steps on their journey together, but which utimately end with them in conflict with one another. I’m trying to think of moments which could be used as the punctual final point of their story. There’s the moment when they fight and Rey appears to kill Kylo (before healing him). But that’s about where I can’t take the thought any further.

That’s the same idea that I’ve had: move the opening scene in The Rise of Skywalker to the very beginning of The Last Jedi, and have the whole “getting the wayfinder and finding Darth Sidious” thing be a part of Kylo’s training. We don’t get the bit where Sidious tells Kylo to kill Rey (since that is contradicted by him later revealing that he wants her alive) or the shot of the Star Destroyers rising from the ground.

After Sidious tells Kylo that “Rey is not who you expect”, we immediately cut to the opening Resistance evacuation scene where Billie Lourd says “Oh no” as a First Order fleet arrives above the atmosphere of D’Qar (no awkward shot of the camera zooming into the planet, since it’s jarring if we cut from the Kylo and Sidious scene to the shot of the camera zooming into the planet). Also remove the entire first throne room scene with Snoke and Kylo, since it would be confusing if we have Kylo meet Sidious before returning to get criticized and mocked by Snoke since he is continuing his training.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

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EddieDean said:

I was thinking about radical reordering to the trilogy, and toying with the idea of having Palpatine’s return be a ‘sidequest’ of Snoke’s as part of Kylo’s training. Sort of ‘I’ve detected a rival Sith, go deal with them for me’. That way you could keep some of Palpatine without it being an unsatisfying attempt to put a capper on the Skywalker saga, and keep it framed as part of this new, different story. Does anyone have any thoughts about that?

That got me on to thinking about any other kind of radical restructures we might have available to us. And fundamentally, any such option needs to first ask the question: What arcs are sufficient to build a trilogy (or duology or whatever) around? And the problem with the sequel trilogy is, nearly nobody has a satisfying arc. To my mind you have:

REY:
A nobody gets dragged into a destiny, shows force proficiency, becomes Luke Skywalker’s hope for the future of the Jedi, develops a relationship with the conflicted Kylo Ren (who exploits her nothingness to gain her power), grows in power, tracks down and kills a half-reborn Palpatine (who she learns she was related to all along), nearly dies but is saved by Kylo, declares herself Skywalker. It’s our second-strongest arc but Palpatine comes out of nowhere and other than the revelation that she’s related to him, her defeat of him doesn’t contribute to her growth.

KYLO REN:
The legacy of Vader wishes to emulate him, gains power under Snoke, is conflicted by his killing of his father, develops a relationship with the suprisingly powerful Rey, kills Snoke to gain more power, is conflicted by his meeting fails to convince Rey to join him for evil, is conflicted by his relationship with Luke Skywalker, finds and submits to Palpatine, then turns to the light, gets nearly killed by Palpatine, then dies to kill an injured Rey.
It’s our strongest arc but Palpatine comes out of nowhere, and isn’t relevant to his character arc.

Taking the above two alone, the strongest story between them is that they meet each other, develop this awkward relationship, turn on Snoke (for different reasons), attempt to convince each other of their philosophies, then Kylo turns to the light, and they defeat Palpatine. But again, that Palpatine ending just isn’t satisfying. I feel like the Palpatine and Snoke kills should be punctual steps on their journey together, but which utimately end with them in conflict with one another. I’m trying to think of moments which could be used as the punctual final point of their story. There’s the moment when they fight and Rey appears to kill Kylo (before healing him). But that’s about where I can’t take the thought any further.

This has inspired me. Here is one very radical take… swap TLJ and TROS.

Episode 8: DUEL OF THE FATES (Apparently this was the initial name for 9)
Crawls establishes it has been several months since TLJ, in this the Republic military has fought a desperate campaign but without its core infrastructure been defeated and that Snoke rules the galaxy. Rey trains under a PTSD Luke while Kylo trains under Snoke to become a true Sith Lord.

Act One
The first twenty minutes or so should be of TLJ, to wrap up some plot threads. Luke has to be handled in a subtle manner. I don’t want to destroy TLJ’s themes, but we can’t introduce all of them unresolved here, so instead, I would make his sadness more fear of Rey turning evil. It could start with the scenes of Luke training Rey (having agreed to train off-camera) and then later having his “who are you?” speech that plants seeds of doubt in his mind.

Meanwhile, Kylo Ren should train under Snoke. I mentioned a couple of days earlier this fanfilm (https://youtu.be/owrmLeX20CY?t=95) I think it would be a huge help here for a symbolic training scene within his mind. Snoke should be completely redubbed to maximize the little screentime we have.

The big drive for the plot will be Rey and Kylo’s force skype. This gets the two characters emotionally attached: which is the crux for the trilogy. I think it would be really effective to plant Luke’s seeds of doubt towards Rey’s willingness to the darkness through her repeated failures, and THEN when he sees those two touching hands gets angry, and Rey leaves to rejoin the fight. Afterward, Luke gets his failure speech and realizes his mistakes.

Meanwhile, Snoke is pleased to see Kylo is near complete with his training, the only remaining mission is to go to Exogel, the ancient Sith Homeworld, but does not tell him what is there.

Act Two
This is where TROS begins. We won’t see the Resistance up until now to feel isolated just like Rey was on Ach-To, but now the rest of the characters get to shine. Getting our big three together in the second installment will let them build off each other, so we care more about the challenges they go through in 9 (because most of these characters don’t really have arcs in TROS).

So Kylo goes to Exogel and learns Palpatine is just vibing. No “Snoke is a clone” speech: the two Sith Masters won’t reveal their relations until the third act. Kylo wants to kill Palpatine there, but he offers him a secret fleet of Imperial Era Star Destroyers (let’s remove the superweapons for simplicity). All he must do is bring Rey.

Rey and company go to Desert Planet, then to Ice Planet, (where we learn about Poe) and then the Star Destroyer break-in. No Rey Palpatine. Next, the Death Star II, and when Rey finally understands the dangers of the dark side runs off back to Luke. The TROS scenes on Ach-To could be adjusted by cutting in footage of alive Luke from TLJ, but with the same general audio about confronting your fear (unlike himself).

Act Three
Palpatine plots his “Final Order” when Rey arrives, alone. The Resistance fleet arrives to take down the “Final Order” in a great battle, but there is no triumphant victory: they get wrecked and their fleet destroyed. When all seems lost, Rey reveals she’s brought help: Kylo, his lightsaber recolored red. The two work together to kill Palpatine (to duel of the fates), and kiss at the end.

Rey returns to Ach-To to complete her training. Meanwhile, Kylo returns to the (redubbed) Snoke. Snoke explains his pleased he could defeat his Palpatine clone, which he engineered purely as a right to passage. (This should hopefully connect the ST and avoid the “villain of the week” issue).

Episode 9: THE LAST SKYWALKER
In the past year, Rey and Kylo continue to speak, trying to turn the other to their respective branches of the force, but neither has succeeded. Meanwhile, the Resistance is down to one starship, and it would appear hope is lost in the galaxy.

Act One
The Last Jedi. Poe blows up the dreadnought and is demoted. Finn runs into Rose and they have their adventures (hopefully trimmed). Rey will have a few scenes, but less so than in TLJ because a good amount was already shown. Her parents will finally be explored here, so maybe the cave.

Act Two
Rey and Kylo have a final force call where they talk about who will turn. Then she turns herself into the Supremacy. The two kill Snoke (which would be a big twist considering he’s the main bad guy of the trilogy to this point) but still cannot agree with each other.

We also learn Rey is a nobody, and this is later followed up with the Broom Boy near the end movie, so that theme stays intact. Another possible theme saved is Finn’s arc. He and Phasma will now be rivals for an entire trilogy, so their final fight will be more impactful. The deleted scene of him getting stormtroopers on his side might also complete his arc of (1. Leaving the FO; 2. Meeting other Deserters; 3. Inspiring others to desert).

Act Three
Crait happens (keep in mind regular TLJ has been running through and we are now around the 2 hr mark). Luke makes his big reveal after a trilogy of buildup, buying the Resistance time and inspiring hope throughout the galaxy, while Rey saves her actual friends whom she has relationships with from TROS.

The final scenes will be Ben standing back at the Death Star II from the last movie, meeting Han, and rejecting the dark side. Then, the last scene of TROS, but with Ben added into the shot, suggesting the two are finally together on the light side.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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Only problem is that Finn’s character is devoted to the resistance in TROS, having him regress to his TLJ self in the final act would be jarring.

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Good point, although I believe this is solvable. Not sure how though, I’d need to sift through the Blu Ray and be more familiar with the movie if I were to say how.

Death of the Author

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I really like it but the issue I have is that Palpatine is given a lot more buildup and is much more impressive than Snoke, even if he’s just written off as a clone. This applies to his relationship to Rey too, it’s much stronger and has more dialogue than anything about her being a nobody.

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After my recent pseudo-successes with EBsynth, I think it might be feasible to realize my idea of a robo-Palpatine. You know, with half his face mechanized? Maybe he could even get rid of the metal bits once he’s restored and revert to his unscarred Prequel appearance.

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Outbound, I absolutely love that! That’s exactly why I posted what I did, in hopes someone could take those thoughts further. I wonder if some other reorderings might work with that too.

For example, you could possibly put the DS2 fight as the very end fight. Kylo and Rey kill Paplatine (Rey dies, Kylo heals her - force healing is a DARK power), Kylo and Rey kill Snoke (Kylo’s true master - he’s coming to the light but still wants to rule), Luke shows Kylo the power of the light on Crait, then Kylo flees to the DS2 wreckage (for what? not sure. power?), only for Rey to fight him, Leia to distract him, Rey to nearly kill him, Rey to heal him (having learned it from him, and deciding to use a little of the dark), but then ultimately to leave him. Then Han’s memory makes him throw his blade into the sea - the end of his tale.

We also have the option of making the Snoke’s flagship hyperspace destruction into something Luke does with the force, for those who don’t like the complications that adds to SW physics.

I’d also edit the scene of Snoke clones in Palpatine’s tanks to Palpatine clones.

Also, a massive advantage of your structure like that is that we get the best character development for the side characters in the final chapter. For Poe, across the films his arc becomes: Heroic > Possibly murky past > Heroic to the point of being a bad leader > Good leader. For Finn, it’s: Flees First Order > attached to Rey > joins rebels loosely > properly commits to rebels > ‘saving what we love’.

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Ooft, here’s an idea for an ending. On the back of Outbound’s flipped movies idea, with Luke only dying near the end of the third movie, how about this:

  • Kylo has his memory intervention and throws his lightsaber into the sea. End for him.
  • We cut to a truncated version of the Rey/Leia training - this is happening as an epilogue. Leia sends Rey off to train, and we get that training montage cut to match the following (cut from her training with Luke and a couple of other sources) “Who am I? No-one. Someone. Light. Darkness. Life. Death. Warmth. Cold. Peace. Violence… Balance. Energy. I am the force.”
  • Cut to credits.

[I’m not trying to imply she’s the living force, with that, so much as accepting that she’s accepting that the force is balance, and flows through her. “I am one with the force, the force is with me”]

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EddieDean said:

Outbound, I absolutely love that! That’s exactly why I posted what I did, in hopes someone could take those thoughts further. I wonder if some other reorderings might work with that too.

For example, you could possibly put the DS2 fight as the very end fight. Kylo and Rey kill Paplatine (Rey dies, Kylo heals her - force healing is a DARK power), Kylo and Rey kill Snoke (Kylo’s true master - he’s coming to the light but still wants to rule), Luke shows Kylo the power of the light on Crait, then Kylo flees to the DS2 wreckage (for what? not sure. power?), only for Rey to fight him, Leia to distract him, Rey to nearly kill him, Rey to heal him (having learned it from him, and deciding to use a little of the dark), but then ultimately to leave him. Then Han’s memory makes him throw his blade into the sea - the end of his tale.

We also have the option of making the Snoke’s flagship hyperspace destruction into something Luke does with the force, for those who don’t like the complications that adds to SW physics.

I’d also edit the scene of Snoke clones in Palpatine’s tanks to Palpatine clones.

Also, a massive advantage of your structure like that is that we get the best character development for the side characters in the final chapter. For Poe, across the films his arc becomes: Heroic > Possibly murky past > Heroic to the point of being a bad leader > Good leader. For Finn, it’s: Flees First Order > attached to Rey > joins rebels loosely > properly commits to rebels > ‘saving what we love’.

This was my initial idea because I felt it weird at first to have the final fight of the trilogy be between Luke and Kylo. You could cut out DS2 in 8 and move it to right after Crait. But I found it too complicated to explain why we are going from Crait to DS2, particularly when you consider who Crait is framed, it is the emotional ending to the saga, even if it doesn’t have the thrills to make for a good trilogy climax.

Also, you’d miss out on Jannah for Finn, because they all take place on the same planet as DS2.

EddieDean said:

Ooft, here’s an idea for an ending. On the back of Outbound’s flipped movies idea, with Luke only dying near the end of the third movie, how about this:

  • Kylo has his memory intervention and throws his lightsaber into the sea. End for him.
  • We cut to a truncated version of the Rey/Leia training - this is happening as an epilogue. Leia sends Rey off to train, and we get that training montage cut to match the following (cut from her training with Luke and a couple of other sources) “Who am I? No-one. Someone. Light. Darkness. Life. Death. Warmth. Cold. Peace. Violence… Balance. Energy. I am the force.”
  • Cut to credits.

[I’m not trying to imply she’s the living force, with that, so much as accepting that she’s accepting that the force is balance, and flows through her. “I am one with the force, the force is with me”]

NGL I prefer the idea of Rey and Ben finally getting together at very end, adapting the final scene of TROS… the force montage is a cool idea, I just think it should be second to last. Then Rey goes to bury the lightsabers and finds Ben waiting for her.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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To get rid of the issue with the force revival, would it sit better with anyone if Rey had never used it in the film, and then the power is used just by Kylo at the end to save her? This ties in with the idea that it is the type of manipulative “unnatural” power that only a Sith can have, and that Kylo uses the power he attained by doing horrific acts for some good in his final moments, somewhat redeeming himself.

I am always a fan of actually teasing and building to concepts that lead to actions, so to do so, I would have Snoke tease Kylo with this ability. In earlier posts, I have brought up how Snoke’s audio language could be changed and he could get new dialogue in the form of subtitles to tease the return of the Emperor. On top of that, you can also have Snoke tease Kylo once or twice about the ability of the dark force to reverse death.

Maybe you could tie this with Kylo’s longing towards the Vader mask, and portray early Kylo as wanting to revive his grandfather who in his own mind perverted by the Sith way he thinks could be a true father figure to him. Again, this idea could be pushed by a subtitled Snoke. This also recontextualizes “let the past die” to be a more literal theme for Kylo as he goes disenchanted with his Sith journey.

Anyways, the ability could be teased by Snoke maybe 2 times in Force Awakens, once in Last Jedi (before Kylo kills him), and then Palpy requoting his line from Episode 3 will feel like a continuation of this storyline. Then at the end, you get the payoff of Kylo having this ability that has been talked about since Ep3 of the saga, and he uses it to save Rey in his final moments.

Anybody like this idea? I’m just throwing stuff out there. I think it would be able to be pulled off without being too “fanedit-y” and cement a lot of the themes of Kylo Ren’s journey.

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Thanks for brainstorming. If you removed any healing at all before Ben resurrects Rey, then I think it would feel out of left field, because nothing before that point would’ve shown Ben had that ability.

Since we see Rey use the power twice, and once on Ben himself, we can assume Ben learned how to do it too, just like Rey learned how to influence minds when Kylo tried to force Rey to show him the map in TFA.

I do think some more set up to elements in TROS would be nice, though. For example, I think it would be interesting if there was more set up to the Dyad concept. Kylo says, “Dyad” in TFA, and you probably can make Snoke say, “Dyad” somehow too, or if you dub him like you suggested. I think the dubbing idea you have could also be useful for the Oracle, if we get that deleted scene, and depending on its dialogue. Too early to say I guess.

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RogueLeader said:

Thanks for brainstorming. If you removed any healing at all before Ben resurrects Rey, then I think it would feel out of left field, because nothing before that point would’ve shown Ben had that ability.

Since we see Rey use the power twice, and once on Ben himself, we can assume Ben learned how to do it too, just like Rey learned how to influence minds when Kylo tried to force Rey to show him the map in TFA.

I do think some more set up to elements in TROS would be nice, though. For example, I think it would be interesting if there was more set up to the Dyad concept. Kylo says, “Dyad” in TFA, and you probably can make Snoke say, “Dyad” somehow too, or if you dub him like you suggested. I think the dubbing idea you have could also be useful for the Oracle, if we get that deleted scene, and depending on its dialogue. Too early to say I guess.

Well that’s just the thing, though. If we went with the idea of using subtitles for Snoke, it would play out in the trilogy as an important part of Kylo’s sith journey. The idea of force healing would be referenced a few times in every film, recontextualizing Palp’s quote in RoS to make more sense than just being a reference. If done right, then Kylo using the ability at the end of the film would feel like a payoff, finally showing us the ability and showing him using something he acquired from his evil to do good. The power that has been teased since Anakin early in the saga is finally used in the climacting moment of the series.

Totally just an idea, though! I always love reading your input on this forum. I can’t wait to see what type of deleted material we get to use for this film.

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Dexter Jettster’s Lab said:

RogueLeader said:

Thanks for brainstorming. If you removed any healing at all before Ben resurrects Rey, then I think it would feel out of left field, because nothing before that point would’ve shown Ben had that ability.

Since we see Rey use the power twice, and once on Ben himself, we can assume Ben learned how to do it too, just like Rey learned how to influence minds when Kylo tried to force Rey to show him the map in TFA.

I do think some more set up to elements in TROS would be nice, though. For example, I think it would be interesting if there was more set up to the Dyad concept. Kylo says, “Dyad” in TFA, and you probably can make Snoke say, “Dyad” somehow too, or if you dub him like you suggested. I think the dubbing idea you have could also be useful for the Oracle, if we get that deleted scene, and depending on its dialogue. Too early to say I guess.

Well that’s just the thing, though. If we went with the idea of using subtitles for Snoke, it would play out in the trilogy as an important part of Kylo’s sith journey. The idea of force healing would be referenced a few times in every film, recontextualizing Palp’s quote in RoS to make more sense than just being a reference. If done right, then Kylo using the ability at the end of the film would feel like a payoff, finally showing us the ability and showing him using something he acquired from his evil to do good. The power that has been teased since Anakin early in the saga is finally used in the climacting moment of the series.

Totally just an idea, though! I always love reading your input on this forum. I can’t wait to see what type of deleted material we get to use for this film.

That is a good point! I had an idea about giving Kylo a vision when he speaks to Vader’s helmet in TFA. It could go well with dubbing Snoke, or on its own if we can’t get that to work, but in a vision you could insert flashbacks or lines regarding “cheating death”, either from Palpatine or Anakin. So when Kylo says, “I will finish, what you started.” The implication might be that he is trying to learn that power.

And thanks for saying that!! I really like your perspective on things too. It’s funny because I’ve been waiting so long for IX so we would have the whole picture of what we have to work with, but I guess we still have to wait for the deleted scenes to see the whole whole picture. 😂

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+1 DJL. I’m a fan of (aggressively) removing or recontextualising anything which retroactively does damage to the rest of the saga, which I think lightside healing does. ROTS established that the power to create life is unnatural/darkside, and by extension I’d always assume healing is - especially since we don’t see it used by any Jedi.

I like the Sequel Trilogy, a lot, but I think that it has a lot of elements which harm the wider saga, or raise tricky questions. Compare that to Rogue One, which, whether you like it or not, it fits perfectly. It doesn’t break a thing.

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I don’t necessarily agree with that. I think the idea of draining life and healing it ties in well with the themes of selfishness and selflessness, which are central to the Saga. I think what is unique to the Dyad, though, is the ability of resurrection.

In the prequels, Anakin had a vision that Padmé would die. To him, that meant her dying was inevitable, and he needed a power beyond just healing.

And just because others have not used this ability in the films beforehand doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. Perhaps it was a technique lost and was rediscovered by Rey in the ancient texts. Or, the waning and waxing of the Force’s strength over generations has an effect on people’s ability to perform it.

And regardless if you cut the power out of IX, it won’t change the fact that Baby Yoda uses the power in the Mandalorian. And maybe he can do it because it is a child, and children have been shown to have an innate connection to the Force, just like the Dyad is shown to have in IX.

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Fun fact regarding force powers:
There has not been a single episode, which has not introduced or teased a new force ability in some way or another.

“You want to sell me Death sticks” -Obi-Vod Kanobi

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Peter Pan said:

Fun fact regarding force powers:
There has not been a single episode, which has not introduced or teased a new force ability in some way or another.

Really? From my memory Force powers remained mostly stagnant during the prequels. Aside from Force running, which was only used for one scene, there really weren’t any new Force powers in those movies.

I’ve heard people use that argument as a justification for the sequels using the Force as an excuse, but aside from some major changes in ESB and ROTJ there weren’t many new Force powers in the Lucas saga.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.