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The Usual Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome). — Page 15

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oojason said:

EddieDean said:

Sorry if I’ve not been up with recent discussions, but what was broken about Holdo’s hair being purple?

Nothing mate.

Though some may want to tackle it as a technical challenge / exercise (apparently it is quite a difficult, labour-intensive task to to do - and get right).

Others don’t like the Holdo character and wish to make changes to her.

An aesthetic choice - some seemingly don’t like (through to some not being able to stand) people having purple hair in their Star Wars space opera / fantasy films.

A few have problems that the purple hair meant that the Holdo character was a lesbian; an oft-mentioned comment when making racist, sexist, homophobic or other derogatory comments on other female characters in the Sequels too.

I like to think most on here doing this change for Edits see it as an aesthetic choice or a technical exercise / challenge…

Moderator Edit No. 2…

A quick reminder that the Star Wars Preservation and Star Wars Fan Edit sections of the site are NOT the places to bash on certain eras or aspects of the films, actors, film-makers or owners.

There are far more relevant threads in the General Star Wars Discussion section of the site to talk about this.

Critiquing a scene in the Star Wars Fan Edits section with the aim of improving it, removing it, altering it etc is perfectly fine. Statements such as ‘Disney sucks’ and ‘this film is so shit no Fan Edit can save it’ etc, is not.

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Vladius said:

I think it’s really dishonest to reduce anyone who doesn’t like The Last Jedi to a bunch of politically motivated epithets like “racist,” “sexist,” “homophobic,” etc.

Jason didn’t do this?

Talk about projection

she/her

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TavorX, thanks for your input too. I wasn’t aware that people had a problem with Holdo in this movie. She’s not a main character and really exists only to serve Poe’s plot (bringing home that blind heroism isn’t good leadership), and then fill in a few other moments - a leadership position in Leia’s absence, and her heroic sacrifice. So like a lot of characters in the series, she gets little screen time but some key moments from which we can infer a lot about her character - she’s a good leader, she knows a lot about managing heroism, and she’s a hero herself.

Either way, maybe we’re getting distracted from hair colour chat, which I’m still really struggling to understand. I think there’s something fundamental I’m missing here because a few people now have said things like her hair is childish, not suitable for an admiral, annoying, attention seeking; but I don’t know of anywhere in the movies or the EU stuff I have read where people in the Star Wars universe would think things like that about a specific colour of hair or make judgments about people’s abilities based on appearance. Especially when there’s so much tolerated variety in Star Wars with all the aliens, and even other humans with crazy hair like Leia’s buns. Am I nuts or does it feel like a very specific set of assumptions we’re making here?

And even if people in Star Wars think pink hair on humans = less skilled, surely the fact that Holdo’s an admiral goes to prove that they value her abilities higher than even that judgment, like the Empire with Thrawn (“we hate aliens, but damn this one’s a great alien”).

Maybe I’m overthinking this. Though in overthinking this last night I actually was reminded of something I read in the Ralph McQuarrie book which does make sense to me as a reason to not have Holdo have pink hair. And that’s that, from the very beginning, it was an aesthetic principle of Lucas’ that Imperial designs had to use artificial colours (black, grey, white, red) whereas Rebel designs had to use natural colours (brown, off-white, forest green, sky blue). By that argument you could say that pink hair belongs on Imperials (/First Order, etc) which now I think about it I can totally see looking really cool*. But still, nobody’s really making that point against my argument here so I’m still struggling with the idea that some people in the Star Wars universe might think pink hair = unsuitable for an admiral, in an inclusive organisation who desperately oppose space fascists.

(*Ironically, idir_hh, I now have to answer your question of “I mean could you imagine how silly it would look on someone like Tarkin or Hux?” with “Perhaps not Tarkin since he’s such an iconic character, but I can certainly see other artificial colours of hair around an Imperial conference table!”)

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For me the goofy purple hair aesthetic looks more Hunger Games than Star Wars.

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but maybe making Poe (and the audience) feel like something is off about Holdo is the point

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I agree that that might have been Rian Johnson’s intention but I disagree with the execution.

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If Hux had purple hair, I would have color corrected his hair too. And for the same reasons as changing Holdo’s to a more natural color. Neither are aliens so purple wouldn’t be a natural color. Something about spending their time on hair in the middle of Armageddon seems weird. It would be like Kyle Reese taking the time to dye his hair in the middle of The Terminator while he’s running for his life and living in sewers, eating rats. Something about it just doesn’t seem right. Granted, I had to watch The Last Jedi about 40 times before it started to bother me

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idir_hh said:

For me the goofy purple hair aesthetic looks more Hunger Games than Star Wars.

That makes sense. Having seen the Rise of Skywalker trailer, do you also plan to replace Lando’s garish wardrobe (such as his bright yellow cape) with something more befitting the governor of Cloud City?

Gigawattboy said:

If Hux had purple hair, I would have color corrected his hair too. And for the same reasons as changing Holdo’s to a more natural color. Neither are aliens so purple wouldn’t be a natural color. Something about spending their time on hair in the middle of Armageddon seems weird. It would be like Kyle Reese taking the time to dye his hair in the middle of The Terminator while he’s running for his life and living in sewers, eating rats. Something about it just doesn’t seem right. Granted, I had to watch The Last Jedi about 40 times before it started to bother me

Is pink hair not natural amongst humans in the Star Wars universe? Like I say I’ve not read much of the EU so sorry if I haven’t read the part where it says that Star Wars’ humans are limited to our blonde, brown, or Earth-natural reds.

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If I end up disliking Lando’s bright colored clothes then I might change them. Changing brightly colored clothes to a different color is super easy in final cut. Can be done in a few minutes. We’ll see how how I feel after 40 viewing of Rise of Skywalker.
P.S. if anyone wants to know how to do it without rotoscoping, watch this tutorial on color correction: https://youtu.be/jmDWm3Mtqyk

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Not sure if you intended to include a response there buddy, all I see in your post is you quoting me.

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Vladius said:

oojason said:

EddieDean said:

Sorry if I’ve not been up with recent discussions, but what was broken about Holdo’s hair being purple?

Nothing mate.

Though some may want to tackle it as a technical challenge / exercise (apparently it is quite a difficult, labour-intensive task to to do - and get right).

Others don’t like the Holdo character and wish to make changes to her.

An aesthetic choice - some seemingly don’t like (through to some not being able to stand) people having purple hair in their Star Wars space opera / fantasy films.

A few have problems that the purple hair meant that the Holdo character was a lesbian; an oft-mentioned comment when making racist, sexist, homophobic or other derogatory comments on other female characters in the Sequels too.

I like to think most on here doing this change for Edits see it as an aesthetic choice or a technical exercise / challenge…

I think it’s really dishonest to reduce anyone who doesn’t like The Last Jedi to a bunch of politically motivated epithets like “racist,” “sexist,” “homophobic,” etc.

I suggest you read my post again - because I am not sure how you claim to that conclusion based on what I wrote.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Yup, no need to feel attacked here Vladius, I don’t think anyone on these forums would equate personal subjective taste (hair colour, or disliking TLJ) with sexism etc. But let’s keep our opinions of the movies as a whole out of a thread focused on discussions we can have about editing changes and their motivations.

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RogueLeader said:

but maybe making Poe (and the audience) feel like something is off about Holdo is the point

The first time I saw it, I totally thought she was a FO spy.

The Hope Awakens

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TavorX said:

RogueLeader said:

but maybe making Poe (and the audience) feel like something is off about Holdo is the point

The first time I saw it, I totally thought she was a FO spy.

That makes total sense to me, by Lucas’ original Imperial = unnatural, Rebel = natural rule. I can see someone wanting to change it on that basis, to avoid that confusion. For me I can also comfortably assume that the resistance wouldn’t care about hair colour since in the absence of any evidence to the contrary that seems like a sensible default. But I’m the one who’s very confused about this whole thing so I’m probably not the best judge here!

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TavorX said:

RogueLeader said:

but maybe making Poe (and the audience) feel like something is off about Holdo is the point

The first time I saw it, I totally thought she was a FO spy.

Same! The audience isn’t supposed to trust her.

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That is not at all what I would call a cocktail dress.

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Gigawattboy said:

If I end up disliking Lando’s bright colored clothes then I might change them. Changing brightly colored clothes to a different color is super easy in final cut. Can be done in a few minutes. We’ll see how how I feel after 40 viewing of Rise of Skywalker.
P.S. if anyone wants to know how to do it without rotoscoping, watch this tutorial on color correction: https://youtu.be/jmDWm3Mtqyk

That’s fair. And everyone’s edits are of course ultimately up to them. I still don’t really understand it at all if I’m honest, but you seem to really care about hair colour as your top priority issue with the movie, so I’m glad you’ve found a solution to something that will help you get more enjoyment out of the series!

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EddieDean said:

Gigawattboy said:

If Hux had purple hair, I would have color corrected his hair too. And for the same reasons as changing Holdo’s to a more natural color. Neither are aliens so purple wouldn’t be a natural color. Something about spending their time on hair in the middle of Armageddon seems weird. It would be like Kyle Reese taking the time to dye his hair in the middle of The Terminator while he’s running for his life and living in sewers, eating rats. Something about it just doesn’t seem right. Granted, I had to watch The Last Jedi about 40 times before it started to bother me

Is pink hair not natural amongst humans in the Star Wars universe? Like I say I’ve not read much of the EU so sorry if I haven’t read the part where it says that Star Wars’ humans are limited to our blonde, brown, or Earth-natural reds.

There are plenty of humans and near-humans with exotic hair colours in the EU.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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DuracellEnergizer said:

EddieDean said:

Gigawattboy said:

If Hux had purple hair, I would have color corrected his hair too. And for the same reasons as changing Holdo’s to a more natural color. Neither are aliens so purple wouldn’t be a natural color. Something about spending their time on hair in the middle of Armageddon seems weird. It would be like Kyle Reese taking the time to dye his hair in the middle of The Terminator while he’s running for his life and living in sewers, eating rats. Something about it just doesn’t seem right. Granted, I had to watch The Last Jedi about 40 times before it started to bother me

Is pink hair not natural amongst humans in the Star Wars universe? Like I say I’ve not read much of the EU so sorry if I haven’t read the part where it says that Star Wars’ humans are limited to our blonde, brown, or Earth-natural reds.

There are plenty of humans and near-humans with exotic hair colours in the EU.

That’s interesting. I wonder why there’s so much focus on this one character then.

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In the context of TLJ, having a leader with an unconventional look makes sense.
She’s the antagonist of Poe. Poe is one of the heroes, so if you feel Holdo is out of place, that means that the film is working.
If the edit is trying to remove or tone down the Poe/Holdo conflict, then yes a more conventional look works best.

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A quick thought on the opening crawl for TLJ. Someone may suggested this already but if so I’ll throw it back in the ring.

The First Order reigns. Unaware that Starkiller Base was destroyed, hundreds of New Republic worlds have surrendered to Snoke’s merciless legions in fear of total annihilation.

It could be worded differently, but I think emphasizing the important of Starkiller Base here would help strengthen the films generally as they are, as well as explain why the First Order would expend so many resources on building ‘another Death Star’.

When Starkiller Base destroyed the New Republic capital, not only did they destroy New Republic leadership, but maybe more importantly, they also set an example for the rest of the galaxy: if they oppose this new regime, their planet could also be destroyed by a hidden super weapon across the galaxy. There’s nowhere to hide.

Regardless of the scale of the First Order’s military (or the New Republic’s military for that matter), this fear alone would be enough for them to “control all the major systems within weeks”.

This also increases the importance of the Resistance and their survival. They are the only ones who know the truth. Leia may have sent operatives out to try and spread the news, but you know the First Order will be working even harder to discredit the truth as “fake news”. It also explains why their allies might be afraid to reach out and help them. For all they know Starkiller Base is still out there, and they can’t risk entire worlds for the lives of a small band of Resistance fighters.

It strengthens Luke’s significance in the story as well. Starkiller, like the Death Star before it, is a symbol of ultimate fear, and the only antedote to fear is hope, the ultimate hope of the Jedi. So the dichotomy between fear and hope becomes a clearer central theme, which has been fundamental to the Star Wars films since the beginning. You can see this already in the film when radio chatter on Crait is heard right as Luke walks in. Hope is returning.

This could potentially lead in well with the Rise of Skywalker, too. Since the Resistance survived and the truth has spread, planets throughout the galaxy have begun fighting back the First Order’s rule. And without the Starkiller Base to maintan that, a powerful hidden fleet would become that much more valuable to them.

Once the film releases in a few weeks, I’m sure we’ll have more ideas for the opening crawls once we have the entire picture of the Sequel Trilogy.

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The problem is you kind of set up a story that doesn’t happen. In the case of that, you’d think all the Resistance needs to do is convince people Starkiller base has been destroyed. Since that isn’t part of the movie, I think there’d be a disconnect.

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I think the First Order only needs enough time to establish a proper foothold in key regions of the galaxy to hold onto their power. I mean, these planets would surrender their ships and weapons in fear of planetary destruction, then later they find out Starkiller Base is destroyed, but they’ve already surrendered their means of defense. By the time the truth is revealed, the galaxy would be at a severe disadvantage. That doesn’t even consider the “merciless legions” the First Order has to also quell opposition and strike fear in the innocent.

I elaborated on why I think that one changed sentence would add a lot to the overall narrative, but one sentence probably wouldn’t make a big difference as far as the context goes. I mean, in-universe I feel it makes logical sense that the galaxy wouldn’t immediately know that the hidden weapon that destroyed the capital actually was destroyed. And by the time they do, the First Order has already tied their hands to some extent.

I think it would be at least worth keeping in mind. IX might provide context that doesn’t really fit with this idea, or maybe it would line up well with what we see.

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EddieDean said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

EddieDean said:

Gigawattboy said:

If Hux had purple hair, I would have color corrected his hair too. And for the same reasons as changing Holdo’s to a more natural color. Neither are aliens so purple wouldn’t be a natural color. Something about spending their time on hair in the middle of Armageddon seems weird. It would be like Kyle Reese taking the time to dye his hair in the middle of The Terminator while he’s running for his life and living in sewers, eating rats. Something about it just doesn’t seem right. Granted, I had to watch The Last Jedi about 40 times before it started to bother me

Is pink hair not natural amongst humans in the Star Wars universe? Like I say I’ve not read much of the EU so sorry if I haven’t read the part where it says that Star Wars’ humans are limited to our blonde, brown, or Earth-natural reds.

There are plenty of humans and near-humans with exotic hair colours in the EU.

That’s interesting. I wonder why there’s so much focus on this one character then.

Unfamiliarity with the EU, I’d wager. The films themselves never really allude to genetically modified humans or human subspecies.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM