The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 25

regularjoe said:

Darth Maul is just a hulked out...thing.....with a double ended light saber to make the fanboys go nuts.  Nothing about E1 is redeemable for the larger picture fanedit.

 

The Empire as seen in 4-6 is xenophobic and while they outsource to bounty hunters in V it is otherwise white human and male.  I find Maul to not fit into this even if in terms of TPM we are talking proto-Empire.  Maul is ultimately a dumb villian that serves as a lackey for the proto-Emperor who, like Fett in V/VI is dispatched too easily and quickly.

 

Dooku falls to a similar fate.  There is ample opportunity here to have a Lando-esque character whose allegiance is ambiguous and the opportunity is squandered.  Maul should have never been there, imagine E1 if Dooku was the agent of Palpatine and didn't die at the end and was ported into E2 as something more than a weak plot device.

I personally think still that a one film prequel would do the OT justice... But I like the Duel at the end of TPM and I think it was one of the very few things that were done on the most part right.

But you are right about dooku being morally ambiguous is a good thing... Essentially Maul is Maul and he kills qui gon which is by and large the only relevant plot point in the whole film which leads to Obi-wan having to train Anakin as a dying request the rest is filler.

Darth Maul was associated with the only half dramatic moment in the film so fair play to him

That approach would be okay for an edit but not a revisited edit.

AntcuFaalb said:

There seems to be some debate over how much of the PT is salvageable.

Here's an idea: Change Episode IV to Episode I, Episode V to Episode II, and Episode VI to Episode III.

Then, make an Episode IV that uses the best footage from the PT as a flashback.

You can start this new "Episode IV" with Luke and Obi-wan in Obi-wan's home on Tatooine and start the first flashback sequence just after "...and he was a good friend."

Scenes from the OT can drive what's shown. For instance, a flashback sequence to the birth of Luke and Leia can be shown after showing the clip of Leia claiming that she can remember her mother in ROTJ.

There's a lot of wiggle-room with this idea since it gives Adywan the ability to pick-and-choose what's best to show from the PT, as he'd be cutting 6+ hours down to 2.

Plus, it'd be great for us OT fans since scenes from the OT would be used to drive the story.

What do ya'll think?

Good Idea, but revisited team want to do 4 more films and remake a film ANH:R in HD....

Adywan obviously really wants to do the Prequel Trilogy Justice and make it better and as he quoted unrecognizable.

But I actually don't want him to spend years and years working on something other than the OT... 

But in the same hand after looking at ATOC and ROTS when you cut the crap out they can be one film and if you simply stick the duel of qui-gon + obi-wan and Darth Maul you have the whole plot really.

Any scenes from tattooine in TPM can be told in flashback that are a little heartwarming or nice to show anakins mother etc. But it's still not neccasary.. Because she had so little screen time nobody cared anyway.

There is a shot where qui-gon puts his hand on Anakins mothers shoulder and says we will come back to free you... and Anakin exclaims before he leaves tattooine I will come back to free you.

Next thing you know Anakin is there while she dies and it was 10 years ago. Makes no sense.

What a bunch of crap

This is why I suggested having Tatooine invaded by the Federation (and Geonosis recoloured to be Tatooine) so in Episode 2 Anakin does come back and free the slaves even if his mother does die. 

^There is a great line in the Clone Wars Movie by Dooku (voiced by Chrostopher Lee) which would fit in with the duel wonderfully if geonosis and tatooine merged-

"Ah, now I remember. This was your home planet, wasn't it? I sense your strong feelings. Feelings of pain, loss..."

Bingowings said:

This is why I suggested having Tatooine invaded by the Federation (and Geonosis recoloured to be Tatooine) so in Episode 2 Anakin does come back and free the slaves even if his mother does die. 

I really hope the team can bring me primarily the OT revisited because everything I seen so far looks brilliant.

And I love ANH:R and I am sure I am gonna love ESB:R and they will both be replacements or other options for what we have now.

But when it comes to the PT:R I have changed my mind that I am now a bit excited for it... But there still hangs in there this notion in my brain that the team will be working on this stuff alongside ROTJ:R. and ANH:HD

I understand the Logic and reasoning behind it that extra filming and characters for continuity.

But there also hangs in my mind the thought that even if the footage is there to complete ROTJ revisited and PT:R that by the time ROTJ:R installment is available that we will have Super Hi-Def at 4k and then it will change the dynamic again and the footage won't be good enough.

Technology moves so fast and without prejudice.

I want the OT:R and if I get a very well put together PT film clocking in at about 2hrs 45mins Happy days. Even if it has a caption saying 10 years later or what ever No big deal.

The big problem is it is a project with an estimated time of arrival of 2026 completion which is really unrealistic even if you film it all now it will be obsolete by the time it gets finished.

2 films and a redux of ANH:R perhaps it could be done in 7 years... perhaps

Because that's not what Revisited is about. It's not looking to alter the flow of the OT or change episode numbers.

AntcuFaalb said:

brash_stryker said:

Because that's not what Revisited is about. It's not looking to alter the flow of the OT or change episode numbers.

I never suggested altering the flow of the OT. What I suggested wouldn't require changing the OT at all besides changing the episode numbering.

I suggested doing away with the PT; providing PT content as a follow-up supplement to the OT. That is, an extra episode after ANH, TESB, and ROTJ.

Right. And again, that's not what "Revisited" is about. To be clear, nobody is saying it's a bad idea, but rather that it doesn't jive with the goals of this particular project.

I wasn't sure if this should go to the Radical Prequel ideas thread, but since it's based around on a much more tamed ideas, I think it's more suitable for a Revisited idea.

Now, I know this is a subjective opinion but I think that the TPM is the best of the Prequels, or at least the one with the most potential to be turned into a decent movie. The underlying basic plot structure of TPM is good enough and far closer in spirit to the space-opera genre of Star Wars than the other two prequels.

What is the biggest problem, and I'm not going to bash on Jake Loyd, is that Anakin is a child. This can hopefully be edited without reworking the movie too much. I do not know if this was established somewhere in the EU but the Originals never actually state whether or not Owen and Beru were Luke's actual uncle and aunt, and if Owen was Anakin's brother respectively. We only know that:

• Owen told Luke that Anakin used to be a "spice freighter captain" that did not fight during the Clone Wars;
• Anakin was actually a great fighter pilot who did fight, and was a powerful Jedi.

So, going on from here, TPM can be fixed with keeping the basic plot structure and removing the siliness and childish stupidity from the movie:

The Republic is crumbling as numerous rich and powerful star systems are declaring themselves separatist. Queen Amidala of the small planet of Naboo, however, is a vocal supporter of the Republic and defends the creation of an army to protect it. The separatists blockade the planet of Naboo in an effort to threaten the Queen to withdraw her support for an army.

Qui-Gon Jin and Obi-Wan Kenobi are two two Jedi Knights who are sent to the blockaded planet in an effort to peacefully resolve the crisis. Once landed on the flagships of the Neimodian separatists, however, their starship is destroyed and they are attacked. Here, some parts of AOTC can be inserted into TPM. Palpatine's hologram does not appear at all and is replaced by another villian.

Qui-Gon senses the presence of his former master, Count Dooku, a powerful Force user who has gathered the various separatist leader on board the Neimodian flagship to propose the creation of a Confederacy of Independent Systems to defend the separatists worlds. He convinces them to occupy the planet of Naboo and to arrest the Queen in a show of strength to prevent the creation of an army of the Republic.

We follow TPM's plot with heavy editing of the Gungan section up until the rescue of the Queen Amidala in Theed. Once the Jedi save the group of pilots in the hangar, it turns out two of them are two young freighter pilots in their twenties called Anakin and Owen Skywalker who were stranded by the blockade. While Owen is more reluctant, he and Anakin join the refugees and propose to help. Thr Jedi sense Anakin has a very strong in the Force. As the Queen's ship escapes, Anakin takes the controls from the injured captain Ric Olié and manages to slip past the blockade. Anakin receives the gratitude and trust of the Queen.

But the Queen's ship is severely damaged and need repairs. It heads for the planets Geonosis that is under the control of the criminal Hutt cartels. Once again inserting AOTC scenes, Tatooine/Geonosis could be recolored to match. This could be to lessen the familiarity of the audience with Tatooine until it appears in ANH (and to make it more believable as in unimportant backwards planet). As Anakin is very strong in the Force, the Jedi take him with them and a handmaiden, Padme. In an effort to gather enough money for the repairs, Anakin:

• agrees to join a risky pod-race, despite the protests of his brother, who is ultimately his main mechanic; he wins as he's a great pilot;

or: 

•  participates in an arena fight simlar to gladiatorial fights, along with the Jedi (and the forced Padme) but survives thanks to his strenght with the Force;

Either of these depends on availability and ease of work with the footage. The group is hunted by a Dark Jedi / Sith warrior, and apprentice of Count Dookue but they manage to escape. We proceed with the Coruscant section which can be edited from various Prequel scenes to make it better paces and Palpatine's coming to power a bit smoother. The Senate votes for the creation of a powerful army of clones as a desperate measure to protect the Republic. However, the army will not be ready in time and Queen Amidala, fearing for her people, decides to go back to her planet and fight. Anakin decides to go back and help her, while Owen decided not to get involved and pull an actual Han Solo-get-away on Coruscant with his reward.

Most of the separatist fleet has left Naboo to proceed to attack other, stronger Republic systems, now that effectively the war has started. The queen's ship slips in and we proceed with TPM's plot. Now, there are several way to re-edit this - when is Amidala revealed to be Padme (if at all); whether the Gungans play any role or the Naboo simply infiltrate Theed, etc. But it in essence, it follow TPM. the Queen's guards storm the hangar and the small Naboo star force, along with Anakin, assaults the droid control. Meanwhile the Queen attempts to capture the seperatist leaders on Naboo, Newt Gunray. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan fight the Sith warrior, Maul.

The droid control ship is destroyed, Qui-Gon dies but Obi-Wan decides to train Anakin (who has already expressed interest in becoming a Jedi despite being too old). Newt Gunray escapes with the help of Count Dooku.

TPM with a celebration of the liberation of Naboo, or with the Republic clone army going to war (from AOTC), or a combination of both.

I know this has many weak points. But these can be cleared by better writers than me.

What I think is best by such an approach is that not only it fixes  the issues with TPM (Anakin being a helpless child) but it's also (more easily) doable from a technical viewpoint than a radical edit.

Essentially:

• you can use either Heiden or another actor to substitute Jake Loyd;
• use existing scenes, sets, designs, etc. from the Prequels, and establish some visual continuity for the next movies;
• introduce Count Dooku as the main villain and the Separatists as the main antagonist faction early on, and have them throughout the trilogy;
• keep Palpatine's character and schemes actually hidden until ROTS; 

Also, I kinda like TPM ! :P

PS. My browser crashed and I had to retype the whole thing. My initial draft was better written but hey, at least I hope you'll consider the ideas.

this is a re-edit....not a re-shoot

okay, chucking this one out there -

someone suggested that dooku might be like the lando of AOTC.

what if obi-wan goes to him intentionally and directly looking for advice during his investigations? so dooku might be initially introduced the wise retired ex-jedi, only to be later revealed as the leader of the rebels.

ben_danger said:

what if obi-wan goes to him intentionally and directly looking for advice during his investigations? so dooku might be initially introduced the wise retired ex-jedi, only to be later revealed as the leader of the rebels.

So essentially Gandalf going to Saruman?

Ha, but seriously there is some good dialogue from LOTR and The Hobbit to use for Chirstopher Lee.

Maybe like, "...very soon we will summon an army great enough to launch an assault upon the republic."

^actually yes, exactly that!

I'd like to try sometime shifitng dialogue from the prison cell to the duel, so dooku is trying to get obi-wan to join hm whilst they fight. If we think about theme's which could be built into AOTC, Obi-Wan's temptation to join Dooku could reflect Anakin's temptation to join Padme (different motives obviously!).

adywan said:

So what if the Gungans are actually clones...

would help to explain why they all look so damn alike

Cloning isn't a secret.

We can do it now.

It would be like America blockading Italy for the secret of pizza.

The best solution I can come up with is that the Republic has acted as a lid under which old resentments and territorial disputes have simmered.

Palpatine has promised the Feds and the other future Separatists loop holes for getting what they want while remaining in the Republic, they take action and get booted out and then go to war to get back in.

The Naboo situation as the Falklands conflict makes more sense to me.

Damn it man, stop trying to make the PT make sense.  It's a fools errand!

;-)

adywan said:

yeh, but i said successful cloning. Even today there are inherent problems with cloning.

What are the risks of cloning? One of the main concerns as it relates to human cloning is that the current processes used in animal cloning are only successful a very small percentage of the time.

Another concern is that the cloned animals that do survive tend to have various health problems and shorter life spans.

Scientist have not yet figured out why these problems occur and there is no reason to think that these same problems wouldn't happen in human cloning.

 

If a race has perfected the process and that all it's inhabitants are living proof, this would be something that could potentially be a gold mine. Palpatine wants his army of clones mass produced. He's from Naboo and knows all about the Gungans. It's all part of his plan.

This is a civilisation that has been able to travel through hyperspace for over a thousand generations, so cloning would be a doddle.

We can clone mammals which give birth successfully.

If there were no ethical or moral considerations I dare say a human would be done by now too (maybe not a very healthy one).

We can't do laser swords, mechanical AI or near light speed yet so in terms of technical sophistication we are way behind the denizens of that galaxy far far away.

I know it's not science fiction but it has to feel right.

If Emperor Ming threatened Earth with a death ray for the secret of supersonic flight it would on par with the idea.

But it's not my project.

You must do what you feel is right of course.

They can clone successfully, they can speed up the process with growth acceleration....still sounds like advanced tech to me.

Also, this is a fictional universe. I have no problem believing that things there are not necessarily as they are here. Perhaps, even with all the other scientific advancements they HAVE managed, cloning still eluded them until just recently (in their time) (a long time ago, in our time).

Not to mention that cloning (in SW) clearly ISN"T a widely held skill set, seeing as the Kaminoans are the only race shown who can actually do it.......so that particular in-universe reality is already dictated to us. If anything, showing the Gungans as also knowing how to clone, makes it more common....which actually DOES lend itself to the idea that it goes hand in hand with a more technologically advanced universe. Not everyone is going to be great at it, so they've left it up to the species who have particularly high aptitudes in that domain. 

Also.....it's just a movie.

adywan said:

The thing with the prequels is that they really don't have a theme throughout the three films to interconnect them. TPM could easily be deleted and it wouldn't really matter. It does nothing apart from introduce characters. Jar Jars character went nowhere, yet suddenly he is instrumental in voting for the army. We get the clones in ep2 and 3 but nothing to connect them in 1.

So how about a change of plot which will interconnect the three films.? I'm going to give a little snippet of what i have planned.....

Screw the damn trade blockade. It's pointless and boring. It needs some other reason for happening, also with the invasion. So what if the Gungans are actually clones who hold the secret to successful cloning and the trade federation want to get their hands on it (profit/palpatines plans?)? The previous queen made a deal with the trade federation under the guidance of palpatine, to force the gungans to give up the secret. But Padme was made queen and reneged on the deal. Jar Jar could have been  willing to hand over the technology but was caught, thus banished. It gives a reason for the invasion instead of being about trade routes. It also helps TPM connect with the next film. But it also gives Jar Jar a different character arc and a sort of redemption scenario when he fights along side his race to defeat the trade federation. 

 

But that's all for now ;)

I think that what is the real shame here is that TPM was really the most horrible of the PT for the reasons you described there is nothing that connects them to the other 2 films and this is a stand alone episode if you like.

When it comes to fan edits my perception of Revisited Team is a group of talented people that overhaul a film make it look, sound and work better and feel better.

I think that although this is the best idea I have heard for the TPM so far that the Gunguns are cloners.. It's still a bit weak and it's not revisited teams fault because of the base material of TPM is an abomination in cinema.

So without sounding bad or at least I don't want to sound rude it really comes down to a bit of a conflict between trying to re-work a trilogy sticking to an episodic format or present a smaller installment and it be perhaps a stronger offering across 1 or 2 films.

There is some good stuff in TPM but it is sparse and separated and dis-jointed could be very easily kick ATOC film off and flash back to Anakin on tattooine for any relationship with mother.

My main concern is TPM:R will be a diluted Revisited I'd rather see it Cut and be given a stronger offering telling Anakins story as the main story across 1 or 2 films....

I don't really care for episode numbers, but I do want to see a better Prequel story Revisited especially for the ROTS ideas and if that means the TPM got by and large cut and slightly amalgamated I would be a lot happier that you cut your workload down and did not tinker with a plot that was ok in ATOC and focused on the meat and potatoes of the PT alongside ROTJ:R and ANH:R.

Although I admire the ambition of the revisited project... TPM is beyond salvage whilst the last 2 have a good chance of being great revisited project. 

The original tag-line of Revisited was "what the special editions should have been"

so now for the PT it's a different beast entirely and you are painting it with the same brush and Ideals of the Revisited project for the OT which is where the conflict is as these are 3 of the best movies ever made.

so your Tag line for PT:R should be "What the prequel trilogy should have been" and that = 1 or 2 films at the most

Basically The PT:R needs to be tackled in a totally different way and not treated the same as the OT:R beacause of TPM it makes it impossible