The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 54

muddyknees2000 said:

I think we're arguing slightly different points here. Where as you're arguing IN-world, I'm coming from a basic film mechanics OUT-of-world standpoint.

I've been trying to articulate why I thought everyone was missing the point earlier, but you've saved me the trouble as this sums it up perfectly.

Regardless of internal reasons, he is in the role of a bad guy/betrayer from a pure story perspective and with regard to our protagonists (the only characters that are relevant to a viewer). Doesn't matter if he had a choice in the matter. He still flipflops between roles, which is precisely the point muddyknees has been making. An overarching theme of the movies is transformation, for good or ill.

To have one character in the Prequels who could possibly demonstrate this compellingly, with the gravitas that only Christopher Lee could command, and then to squander it by making him a regular bad guy? Ludicrous.

Off topic from what everyone else is discussing, but I had a thought for ROTJ:R.  It would be cool if Adywan found some way to incorporate the Light Man.

^That is ... that is ... what the hell is that?

FVDnz said:

Should there also be a bit of mystery into this Darth Tyranus too, because that wasn't really touched upon much, just a passing mention by Jango Fett on Kamino.  And again, all this Sifo Dyas carry on that doesn't really get clarified all that much.  Had to take a Clone Wars arc to tie up a few loose ends really.

 Oh man....the AOTC detective plot.......that one's a mess. A shame, as a good detective story, tracking down leads only to discover a bad guy right in your midst is a great thing if done right......which of course the PT did NOT.

DuracellEnergizer said:

^That is ... that is ... what the hell is that?

 It's like Slenderman got it on with a Xmas tree.

DuracellEnergizer said:

^That is ... that is ... what the hell is that?

 I thought everyone knew.  The Light Man was supposed to be a creature made of light in Jabba's palace, but they couldn't figure out how to make it work, much less keep the actor safe.  Here's footage from the BD showing a test shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyjuHeVJcI4

It's a simple little thing, but it seems fun to me.  Just an idea, not one I'm banking on.

This is something more for consistency's sake, and maybe not even possible, but it's worth pondering.

A New Hope looks noticeably different from Empire and Jedi, almost night and day. I'm not talking about special effects or even the hairstyles, but the way it was photographed and graded. ANH has very stark lighting and subdued tones, and at times resembles something out of the late '60s like Planet of the Apes than a film produced a decade later; a good way to describe its look would be "dry." Empire and Jedi have more saturated colours and they "pop" a little more. The shots also tend to be a lot more dynamic.

Obviously Adywan can only alter shot dynamics and composition a little bit, but is it possible to regrade ANH to better match its sequels in terms of visual presentation?

^I'd be interested in seeing that

I know there is a history between Ady and Angel/Vaderios that need not be gone back over here but some of his mock-ups where the Falcon interior from ANH was given the ivory colours of the ESB/ROTJ set and where Threepio's eye lights were turned up in ROTJ to match those seen in ANH and ESB helped unify the look of the trilogy a great deal in my view. 

I'm not sure how doable those things were to do in motion though.

I've always wanted that. Star Wars 77 is great and I love it and it's my all time favorite movie... but if I were to do a special edition of it I would most certainly regrade it. By nature of the film's smaller budget it used less expensive lenses and film stock and the movie just generally feels cheaper than the rest of the trilogy. If a special edition is supposed to make the movies more consistent, regrading is very necessary.

I don't even think it looks cheaper. The Tatooine scenes have an incredible crispness to them, and it looks lived-in in a way the latter two movies don't. It's just... different.

It's kind of like how movies from different eras have a different look to them. I can discern if something was made in the '80s or '90s just by looking at them--with some exceptions; Se7en looks like it was made today. Jedi definitely has the look of an '80s blockbuster, Empire is very much a mid-to-late '70s film. It's just the first that looks out of time; not to its detriment, mind you.

Random thought, but my crazy hope for adywan's PTR is that he replaces CGI Yoda completely with a OT accurate puppet. Pretty simple request right? That shouldn't be too hard. But seriously I would love it and he's the only person with the skills and drive to make that happen.

If not him, maybe someday someone else... who knows?

Although I think he's already stated otherwise - I'd love him to just remove Yoda completely, and just build up interest and suspense for this 'great warrior' character in ESB.

Agreed though, puppet>CGI

DominicCobb said:

Random thought, but my crazy hope for adywan's PTR is that he replaces CGI Yoda completely with a OT accurate puppet. Pretty simple request right? That shouldn't be too hard. But seriously I would love it and he's the only person with the skills and drive to make that happen.

If not him, maybe someday someone else... who knows?

I'm pretty sure he can do it but it will be extremely time-consuming. I've always liked the TPM puppet more than the CGI one from the other two. He looks so symphatetic and happy. I know something went wrong because he doesn't really look like the Yoda from OT but it doesn't bother me. Adywan could easily fix the mouth movements and eyes. Didn't he enhance Yoda somehow in TESB:R?

Skippy The Jedi Droid said:

DominicCobb said:

Random thought, but my crazy hope for adywan's PTR is that he replaces CGI Yoda completely with a OT accurate puppet. Pretty simple request right? That shouldn't be too hard. But seriously I would love it and he's the only person with the skills and drive to make that happen.

If not him, maybe someday someone else... who knows?

I'm pretty sure he can do it but it will be extremely time-consuming. I've always liked the TPM puppet more than the CGI one from the other two. He looks so symphatetic and happy. I know something went wrong because he doesn't really look like the Yoda from OT but it doesn't bother me. Adywan could easily fix the mouth movements and eyes. Didn't he enhance Yoda somehow in TESB:R?

Mmm CGI Yoda is better than creepy puppet Yoda, in my opinion. Yes he enhanced lip and eye movements for ESBR but fixing the puppet in TPM would require much more than subtle enhancements. 

Anyway, adding puppet Yoda to the PT would probably be a job for a second unit crew. Are there fans out there with movie accurate Yoda puppets? Just wondering if they even exist.

DominicCobb said:

Anyway, adding puppet Yoda to the PT would probably be a job for a second unit crew. Are there fans out there with movie accurate Yoda puppets? Just wondering if they even exist.

 They exist, but it's a very difficult job. Not to say that it's impossible, because it IS most certainly achievable......but with a LOT of work. 

I'm firmly in the camp that Yoda should be "heard of, and not seen" in the PT. His image being used in promotional material for ESB still gave no absolute confirmation that he was Yoda. PR material is not made by the same people who write the story anyways....and the scene where he reveals himself as Yoda WAS clearly meant to be a surprise in the film.

BUT.....if one wanted to replace the CG version with a better looking puppet, it would almost necessitate cutting out every layer on the screen, painting in the bits that Yoda moves over and then integrating the new footage of puppet Yoda......as it would be next to impossible to perfectly match the new puppet to the old movements. There would need to be more freedom to make all new movements. For example...if Yoda is conversing with another Jedi you would need to cut out the background....fill in the hole created by Yoda's absence....if Yoda's movements passed OVER the Jedi he was talking to the Jedi's robes would need to be recreated (either from just before or just after Yoda overlapped him/her)....and THEN you drop the new puppet footage in. This gets even more complicated if Yoda was a middle layer.....with things behind him AND in front of him. Do-able, but a lot of work.

Definitely easier just to cut him entirely ;)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, in my opinion Yoda has no place in the PT at all. I don't think the audience in 1980 were meant to know his identity until it was revealed by Obi's voice, and in that respect, excising him from the PT entirely respects this reveal. 

He should be spoken about a lot, building his legendary status for the audience, but we shouldn't meet him. 

Obviously cutting all the shots he's in would mean there'd barely be a movie left, so why not replace him in some of them (the ones with the camera angles that indicate a short person) with another short character who can be given a new role in the story? Doesn't need to even be a Jedi. In fact it shouldn't be because that would again be introducing the whole "size matters not" thing prematurely. It could be a costumed dwarf either human or alien, masked or unmasked, or even a droid if the role could be made to fit the scenes with those particular angles. 

Would this be enormously impractical and insane to attempt? Of course it would, and it's probably next to impossible. More insane than replacing CG Yoda with puppet Yoda? No, in fact without the need to....

1. Puppeteer
2. Sync the mouth movements to the existing dialogue
3. Impersonate Frank Oz's voice in the case of new dialogue

...it would be a lot easier. And there might even be a greater payoff due to the additional scope for changing the story with whole new dialogue from a whole new character. You'd only need to worry about matching the angles and/or motion (not that I'm downplaying how hard that alone would be).

I know many here disagree that there's any point preserving this reveal, or that it even was a reveal at all, but that's my opinion. I'm in no way suggesting this is doable anyway. This is just a 'what if'.

EDIT: Damn you muddyknees2000 and your incessant mind reading!

NeverarGreat said:

I totally agree that the Yoda reveal should be preserved in ESB. Directors should take a sort of Hippocratic oath when making prequels/sequels/spinoffs of movies, in that they vow to 'first do no harm' to the original story and characters.

 Yes. Just yes.

- No Force Lightning for Dooku. Dooku using Force Lightning turned a unique ability of The Emperor into a generic dark side power.

- More screentime for Palpatine in AOTC. A lot of time that Anakin spent with Padme he could have spent with Palpatine instead.