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The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 43

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G E Predator said:

Hi!  I have returned from a long, LONG absence.

I'd like to start off with a public apology for my childish behavior years ago.  If you don't remember, it's best not to.  If you do, I promise it won't happen again.

 

You got a lot of guts coming here, after what you pulled.

JK, no clue what you did. But I do like your idea about just straight removing the 'lost the will to live' line and perhaps leaving her death more ambiguous. In TPM and AOTC Padme was shown to be a strong person, then by the time ROTS rolls around she becomes pregnant, sits around doing nothing, cries a lot and loses the will to live despite the fact that she has a brand new life to care for.

Considering all that happened she should have even MORE reason to live and protect her child.

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DF Shadow said:

G E Predator said:

Hi!  I have returned from a long, LONG absence.

I'd like to start off with a public apology for my childish behavior years ago.  If you don't remember, it's best not to.  If you do, I promise it won't happen again.

 

You got a lot of guts coming here, after what you pulled.

JK, no clue what you did. But I do like your idea about just straight removing the 'lost the will to live' line and perhaps leaving her death more ambiguous. In TPM and AOTC Padme was shown to be a strong person, then by the time ROTS rolls around she becomes pregnant, sits around doing nothing, cries a lot and loses the will to live despite the fact that she has a brand new life to care for.

Considering all that happened she should have even MORE reason to live and protect her child.

 

LOL I see what you did there ^^ Very nice.  Let's just say I rode a high horse and then jumped down off of it.

Thank you, and I definitely agree.  She was a strong role model for women in episodes 1 and 2, and her daughter was the say way in the OT.  Also, given that she was about to bring two in lives into that galaxy, she has two very good reasons to keep on living.  If Padme had to die, at least it shouldn't be of a broken heart.

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G E Predator said:

Don't know of Ady would consider this, but a reason to back-up Leia remembering what little she does about her real mother could be that while she lived on Alderaan, her adopted father showed her holographic images of her mother from when she served in the Republic Senate.  It would similarly to the deleted second from "Episode II" when Padme talks about her childhood friends who died and Anakin sees moving images of them on the wall of her bedroom.

 Interesting idea for sure.  And I do like the scene showing Alderaan, it's a poignant scene. 

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mfastx said: Interesting idea for sure.  And I do like the scene showing Alderaan, it's a poignant scene.

Definitely poignant seeing Alderaan in "Episode III" not only because fans who saw the OT first (or at least "A New Hope" first) know that this would be their first and last glimpse of the world, (unless it appears again in "Rebels") but also they know that the little baby princess would grow up not knowing everything about her true heritage.

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Pod racing????

Nah Landspeeder racing all the way.... But no little brat driving he needs to be at least 16 that's democracy :)

In all seriousness I thought I could edit all three PT films together to make a more decent film the problem was all three films are awful and editing together three awful films just gives you a big awful film so unless you re-film it entirely removing,

The Bad Acting / performances
The Bad Plot
The plastic dated looking cartoonish effects
And all the cardboard charcters

wait a minute there is nothing left worth keeping. What bugs me more is they have done the same to the LOTR trilogy exactly the same approach.

It's called trying to make a quick bit of money and living off the back of your previous success but not sustaining your success. An exit door is probably a better description. JJ's probably young enough to not do that just yet. PJ probably won't make another blockbuster sucess after the hobbit.

At the same time you can't blame these people who have devoted so much of their time to advancing technology and film so although it's good in one way the end result in these sort of circumstances i.e. not a young blood leave a lot to be desired in most cases. It's all just history repeating.

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I think many of the points made here are the start to making these films watchable (though complete remakes are probably the better way to go). If we're going to try to salvage what's already there, I agree with everyone's points about trying to keep some secrets and make it a succinct story in Episode order. I hate that GL had such little respect for his fans that he included every possible spoiler he could in EpIII, save Young Han Solo. Hey, whatever lets him wrap this thing up and make a ton of cash is all that matters.

I agree that we should nix Padme's "losing the will to live", for all the previously mentioned reasons. Also, I wouldn't address Leia at all. Maybe reveal that Padme's having twins; no genders, she doesn't name them, but we see Ben taking Luke to Owen and Beru. That at least leaves the question mark of "who is Luke's twin?" until we get to the reveal in RotJ.

As far as Anakin, lots of great ideas here, though some will be difficult to pull off. I have a few thoughts about how to rework the story, but it's probably more than a Revisited effort. Can anyone recommend a good thread for script re-write/new story ideas?

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G E Predator said:

Don't know of Ady would consider this, but a reason to back-up Leia remembering what little she does about her real mother could be that while she lived on Alderaan, her adopted father showed her holographic images of her mother from when she served in the Republic Senate.  It would similarly to the deleted second from "Episode II" when Padme talks about her childhood friends who died and Anakin sees moving images of them on the wall of her bedroom.

I think this would work well.

I've always thought that a possible explanation of the discrepancy between ROTS and Jedi could be that Bail's wife, the one we see briefly with Bail and the baby at the end of ROTS, died at some point while Leia was growing up.  He remarried, and Leia still believed that Bail and his first wife were her parents.  But his remarriage would be a well-known thing, hence why Luke says "your real mother."  

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Platitude said:

G E Predator said:

Don't know of Ady would consider this, but a reason to back-up Leia remembering what little she does about her real mother could be that while she lived on Alderaan, her adopted father showed her holographic images of her mother from when she served in the Republic Senate.  It would similarly to the deleted second from "Episode II" when Padme talks about her childhood friends who died and Anakin sees moving images of them on the wall of her bedroom.

I think this would work well.

I've always thought that a possible explanation of the discrepancy between ROTS and Jedi could be that Bail's wife, the one we see briefly with Bail and the baby at the end of ROTS, died at some point while Leia was growing up.  He remarried, and Leia still believed that Bail and his first wife were her parents.  But his remarriage would be a well-known thing, hence why Luke says "your real mother."  

 But Luke, by that point, already knows they're siblings, so why would he even ask?

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As far as I'm concerned this is all pointless retconning.....Padme should never have died in ROTS. Lucas has always resented the OT for it being so successful when it wasn't his true vision. He wrote the PT however he wanted to without feeling beholden to the OT in any way, shape or form. There are many, MANY examples of his disregard for pre-existing OT story elements in his PT writing. This is nothing more than another of those instances.

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timdiggerm said:

Platitude said:

G E Predator said:

Don't know of Ady would consider this, but a reason to back-up Leia remembering what little she does about her real mother could be that while she lived on Alderaan, her adopted father showed her holographic images of her mother from when she served in the Republic Senate.  It would similarly to the deleted second from "Episode II" when Padme talks about her childhood friends who died and Anakin sees moving images of them on the wall of her bedroom.

I think this would work well.

I've always thought that a possible explanation of the discrepancy between ROTS and Jedi could be that Bail's wife, the one we see briefly with Bail and the baby at the end of ROTS, died at some point while Leia was growing up.  He remarried, and Leia still believed that Bail and his first wife were her parents.  But his remarriage would be a well-known thing, hence why Luke says "your real mother."  

 But Luke, by that point, already knows they're siblings, so why would he even ask?

 Luke did say, "I have no memory of my mother.  I never knew her."

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Fair points, I dunno.  Padme dying really screws things up.  Its funny how Lucas was really focused on making some random things line up with the OT, like how Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lightsaber, but the larger things like this were generally ignored.

 

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Platitude said:

Fair points, I dunno.  Padme dying really screws things up.  Its funny how Lucas was really focused on making some random things line up with the OT, like how Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lightsaber, but the larger things like this were generally ignored.

 

Only it doesn't because Luke's father's bequest of his magic sword to his child is a mythically resonant plot trigger (King Arthur etc) and yet in ROTS Anakin just drops the latest in a long line of weapons after having his limbs hacked off.

I personally would have Anakin use only one sword as a Jedi (no comedy 'weapon damage' in AOTC) and leave it with Padme. If his mission to Musthavealeak failed his child would one day wield Excalibur. That way Vader can use a red saber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Bingowings said:

Platitude said:

Fair points, I dunno.  Padme dying really screws things up.  Its funny how Lucas was really focused on making some random things line up with the OT, like how Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lightsaber, but the larger things like this were generally ignored.

 

Only it doesn't because Luke's father's bequest of his magic sword to his child is a mythically resonant plot trigger (King Arthur etc) and yet in ROTS Anakin just drops the latest in a long line of weapons after having his limbs hacked off.

I personally would have Anakin use only one sword as a Jedi (no comedy 'weapon damage' in AOTC) and leave it with Padme. If his mission to Musthavealeak failed his child would one day wield Excalibur. That way Vader can use a red saber.

That all makes perfect sense. It would work if only Anakin were a noble, likeable character, and that his mission to Musthavealeak was (at least in his mind) for the greater good of the people and not just as Palpatine's personal hitman.

On the flip side, make Obi-Wan force-grab/steal Anakin's lightsaber from him. "If this guy's going to be a bad guy, I'll at least try to help his son one day take him down." Then it makes Obi-Wan's story to Luke even more fabricated: "Yes, this Vader guy DID murder your father, he WAS a good friend, and he really DID want you to have this one day."

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Platitude said:

Fair points, I dunno.  Padme dying really screws things up.  Its funny how Lucas was really focused on making some random things line up with the OT, like how Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lightsaber, but the larger things like this were generally ignored.

 

 "I heartily agree with you, sir."

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BlueCardinal said:

Bingowings said:

Platitude said:

Fair points, I dunno.  Padme dying really screws things up.  Its funny how Lucas was really focused on making some random things line up with the OT, like how Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lightsaber, but the larger things like this were generally ignored.

 

Only it doesn't because Luke's father's bequest of his magic sword to his child is a mythically resonant plot trigger (King Arthur etc) and yet in ROTS Anakin just drops the latest in a long line of weapons after having his limbs hacked off.

I personally would have Anakin use only one sword as a Jedi (no comedy 'weapon damage' in AOTC) and leave it with Padme. If his mission to Musthavealeak failed his child would one day wield Excalibur. That way Vader can use a red saber.

That all makes perfect sense. It would work if only Anakin were a noble, likeable character, and that his mission to Musthavealeak was (at least in his mind) for the greater good of the people and not just as Palpatine's personal hitman.

 Like if he's there to avenge Padme for four years earlier when Viceroy Gunray put out a hit on his wife?

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It is annoying that George couldn't make it line up with the preexisting OT, but, if I were to change anything when it comes to Padme's fate, it would be the line in ROTJ. In that film, the line is rather inconsequential. I disagree that it;s a big deal. I could have been, maybe even should have been. But it's one line that barely factors into the conversation Luke and Leia are having. If you took the line out, the film is practically the same.

In ROTS, however, Padme's death is the source of much genuine emotional power, and is one of the film's strongest aspects. It's what really makes Anakin's story a tragedy. If you took it out, you would be making the film worse.

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DominicCobb said:

It is annoying that George couldn't make it line up with the preexisting OT, but, if I were to change anything when it comes to Padme's fate, it would be the line in ROTJ. In that film, the line is rather inconsequential. I disagree that it;s a big deal. I could have been, maybe even should have been. But it's one line that barely factors into the conversation Luke and Leia are having. If you took the line out, the film is practically the same.

In ROTS, however, Padme's death is the source of much genuine emotional power, and is one of the film's strongest aspects. It's what really makes Anakin's story a tragedy. If you took it out, you would be making the film worse.

 What if Padme's death was off screen, and Sidious still tells Darth Vader that his wife is dead?  The Sith are known for creating mistrust, and no reason to say they don't deceive each other.  Sidious only needs Vader to think Padme was killed in her anger.

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DominicCobb said:

It is annoying that George couldn't make it line up with the preexisting OT, but, if I were to change anything when it comes to Padme's fate, it would be the line in ROTJ. In that film, the line is rather inconsequential. I disagree that it;s a big deal. I could have been, maybe even should have been. But it's one line that barely factors into the conversation Luke and Leia are having. If you took the line out, the film is practically the same.

In ROTS, however, Padme's death is the source of much genuine emotional power, and is one of the film's strongest aspects. It's what really makes Anakin's story a tragedy. If you took it out, you would be making the film worse.

 The line might be inconsequential if not for the fact that it hung around for 22 years before the audience got to see the events lining up to the other side of it. When you've got pre-existing material like that which has been around for that long it IS owed some amount of reverence. It has a weight, or seniority in our minds because we've been imagining it for so long.

And while I agree that Padme's funeral is one of the only points in the story where the audience has a chance to connect on an emotional level, it shouldn't be solely responsible for holding up the entire film. If the narrative doesn't hold up without that scene, then the film is crap.....as opposed to that scene being essential to making the film slightly better.

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G E Predator said:

 Like if he's there to avenge Padme for four years earlier when Viceroy Gunray put out a hit on his wife?

The avenge angle is still a personal vendetta, and something a Jedi wouldn't do. I can't imagine Yoda from ESB hunting someone down to chop their head off for a wrong they did to him years before. 

I interpret Bingo's suggestion to mean that Anakin hasn't turned yet, he's this great hero that everybody loves, and he knows he going into something dangerous from which he might not return. He would be telling Padme, "I'm doing this because if I succeed it will help everyone, and Palpatine says nobody can do it but me. I might not make it back, but I want you to know that I love you and if I die, our son can carry on in my place one day."

It's noble and admirable - sacrificing himself for the fate of so many others, instead of "I'm gonna go kill all the guys me and my new boss are mad at. Because I'm the bad guy now. See? I have yellow eyes and my scowl is deeper than before. I'm the bad guy. Watch me kill everybody. Did you pick up on the fact that I'm now the bad guy?"

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BlueCardinal said:

G E Predator said:

 Like if he's there to avenge Padme for four years earlier when Viceroy Gunray put out a hit on his wife?

The avenge angle is still a personal vendetta, and something a Jedi wouldn't do. I can't imagine Yoda from ESB hunting someone down to chop their head off for a wrong they did to him years before. 

I interpret Bingo's suggestion to mean that Anakin hasn't turned yet, he's this great hero that everybody loves, and he knows he going into something dangerous from which he might not return. He would be telling Padme, "I'm doing this because if I succeed it will help everyone, and Palpatine says nobody can do it but me. I might not make it back, but I want you to know that I love you and if I die, our son can carry on in my place one day."

It's noble and admirable - sacrificing himself for the fate of so many others, instead of "I'm gonna go kill all the guys me and my new boss are mad at. Because I'm the bad guy now. See? I have yellow eyes and my scowl is deeper than before. I'm the bad guy. Watch me kill everybody. Did you pick up on the fact that I'm now the bad guy?"

Point taken.  I'm guessing that when Ady gets to Episode 3, one of his plans is removing all dialogue from Ani/Obi duel, so there won't be any, "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil."

The best way I can think of having Anakin be noble without Ady having to do too much work on ROTS is to have the Trade Federation plan to barricade Coruscant as a last ditch effort to take over the galaxy and Anakin goes to wipe out the Trade Federation in order to prevent that from happening.  He knows the Viceroy would always be well guarded or have an escape plan, so Anakin is willing to destroy himself along with the Separatists leaders and their base to ensure the safety of the Republic and the rest of the Galaxy.

It would be kinda like how Luke destroyed the Death Star and even though he killed hundreds (if not thousands) of Imperial officers and possibly more Rebels being held prisoner, he ended up saving infinitely innocent wildlife on Yavin 4 as well as other planets in the Galaxy from suffering the same fate as Alderaan.

If that's a bad example, then I apologize for it.

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^ This. The barricade on Coruscant (which could be accomplished by a shot of the planet with the Trade Federation donut ships from EpI surrounding it), makes Anakin's trip to Mustafar a reckless but valiant effort to save everyone.

To your parallel, Luke didn't go to the Death Star to destroy it. He went to try to convert Anakin back to good. If he succeeded, they could take down the Emperor together and restore peace to the galaxy, but he knew he was risking his life to do so. This is very similar to what Anakin would be doing in your suggestion: taking down the leadership of the opposing forces. What makes yours better is that Anakin knows it's pretty much a suicide mission no matter the outcome.

"See, the point is that they rhyme, so it's like poetry." - GL

And yes, remove the dialog from the Ady/Obi duel. For too many reasons to list here.