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The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 42

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 (Edited)

Attack of the clones, argh well I hate the prequeals but without thinking about taking any footage into consideration what so ever the problem with the Anakin storyline are as follows in my opinion.

It's too forced in our face that Anakins Mum ended up at the lars homestead and was captured and then brought back dead to brood. It's a crap plot that has absoluteley zero thought put into it.

First off Anakins Mother should have never been freed from slavery even though Anakin could perhaps or was told he won the right to her freedom.

If anything, Anakin should have saved his dying mother and brought her to the lars homestead as a last ditch effort to save her life and been welcomed in by the kind people that just happened to live there with no previous connections.

This is where a Bond could flourish between Padme and That family rather than Anakin who was just by his mothers side although grateful would be predisposed with obvious fear of losing his Mother. And this would be an obvious connotations that This kind family would ask "Are you thinking of having a family of your own?"... "Please come back and visit us someday..." Blah Blah Blah the simple stuff that would evolve into something much greater down the line as Padme and both Obi-wan would have little places left to turn.

Or Perhaps even that Anakin runs Off and Padme alone stops here before eventually finding Anakin in the desert. Perhaps Owen and Beru could not have their own family due to mediacal reasons.

The story needs a reason to be told, and show how things are connected that you would never guess. Not My Dad, My Mum, My Brother, My Sister, My Uncle, My Auntie, My Son, My Daughter,My Business, My Politics,  My 2nd cousins goldfishes niece. It is a Trash piece. The thing about it is the plot is so bad and so mind numbingly simple that I would even struggle to write something as bad as these films and I am not a writer.

Are we really meant to believe we are in this large Universe where everyone is related to one another in some way at a very close level. The story also lacks any kind of maturity that even a child would ask simple yet big questions without thought and if aimed at children how did it manage to educate or teach them anything of the world we live in. What was the moral of the story?

You could argue that the prequels focused on Politics and that they tried to show that some politicians will say whatever they can and manipulate to get into power for their own desires?

But a fundamental issue with this is that kids don't think in politics they think at a much more emotional level even adults do more so but keep in mind being politically correct. So wrong focus also on too much politics that just goes amiss and removes the human factor it's more like a big business space opera than what was served in the OT.

Was it an attempt to display Global Corporate Star Wars?

Like in the OT all the planets felt like different countries and were more based on natural beautiful environs but in the PT it was more industrial citified in the universe there was always some kind of connection through Business or Henchmen or politics where as the OT had much more focus on just showing more simple view of the universe.

Should Anakin have become gradually more machine than man? Lost an Arm here a leg there then a more full on Destruction of his body. Showing him gradually become less Human along with his emotions? Sustaining many injuries throughout the films? Would a better message have been that how could Padme love her now more "Robot man" and that caused him to strike out at her rather than the stupid way it is done now. That is a Human Story there not what we got. That's a reality that some people won't stick with you when circumstances change. She should have left him because she could not love how much he had changed emotionally and physically. You would then be dealing with the aftermath of war and fighting and the emotional struggles that are often harder to overcome than the battles themselves. That would turn the focus on it's head enough to portray 2 human stories and that neither one Padme or Anakin were Good or Evil but just Human and in anakins case not so Human anymore.

I would have Padme survive but have been told she lost her children through miscaridge. But for her to return into the frey in Jedi as Vader hunts her down upon discovering his son is alive and hence Vader finds out about Leia and that she had two kids and was lied to about the miscaridge in effect her children was stolen from her but for her own benefit not for evil obviously. But Vader being the key to unlocking this truth even though she left him. Perhaps Vader would show mercy and this could be the start of his change of heart. If Padme had started to see another Male for emotional support as Anakin became more Robot that would give even more Just cause for the Jedi to remove the children from Padme given those circumstances. But I am already overwriting what I wrote previously. IN this scenario Obi-Wan would need to form the relationship with the Lars Family neither Padme or Anakin and to be honest it makes 100% more sense. What with Obi-Wan also lying to Luke about his father the all but Finished Jedi Order start to become painted in a totally different Light rather than just "The Good Guys" even though they are at the bottom of their hearts some times you have to be bad to be good right?

Or taking another point of view perhaps Padme could have been the all loving woman would it not have been better that Padme was lied to about the death of her husband or perhaps it was thought to be true so It was not a lie. Anyway we need some big deep rooted lies or misunderstandings and revelations as the PT caters to filling in gaps rather than telling us a story we knew nothing about and was nowhere near complicated enough on an emotional level but too complicated on a political level.

Anyway I don't have the answers but I know it just ain't Star Wars Anymore. This whole story could be told in a matter of 25 minutes and an idea of mine for quite a long time now was to try and wrap it all up in ROTJ rather than another 3 films which was wholly not needed. Even splicing in at the end of ESB after the falcon get's away is a perfect time for Vader to reflect anyway my tuppence worth I do love the OT but Jedi is Ripe for going back in time a lot more so than Empire. But I also cringe at the thought of polluting the OT with PT footage so It would have to be a top production with all new everything spliced in to the OT

And I always wanted Luke to return to the Lars Homestead while on Tattooine in ROTJ it makes perfect sense and re-cements the loss of his foster parents and the conflict between his father and the Empire.

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timdiggerm said:

THE HIDDEN PLANET

?

 This is perfect. It's got that pulp feel to it that Star Wars needs, and the prequels somewhat lacked.

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It's a nice title if the hidden planet aspect of the story is kept.

However seeing as that story strand goes nowhere it might make more sense if Geonosis was the hidden planet instead of Kamino.

Have the clones commissioned openly but have droid factories secret and taken out by the clones.

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That's funny I originally titled it The Hidden Planet, based on my love for the 1956 film The Forbidden Planet and obviously The Hidden Fortress. Later changing it to The Missing Planet to match Obi-Wan's dialogue exchange with r4, but I agree The Hidden Planet is the superior title. Very Flash Gordon.

"The Hidden Planet" it is!

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Bingowings said:

ROTJ and the PT allow for more scope to actually build story. In many ways Ady and the team are allowed more freedom while re-sculpting the PT because the interested audience are not as attached to the material in it's current form.

 having started my journey with Jedi back then, following the marvel comics to eventually seeing Hope and Empire - I am more on the train to "revisit" ALL movies (the PT just needs more attention) - if only for 6 or even more parts ;-)

having read the whole thread, I collected some ideas that ring true for me, not meaning, Adywan or someone else needs to build their edit around it, just putting my credits into the pot ...

first on with the OT - and what Jedi "needs":

- a general thought: what if Obi-Wan didn't know ?

what if he really thought he told Luke the truth about his father ?

meaning: let "Maul" kill "Anakin" in a lava-battle, reminding us a little to what Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty happend (with Watson=Obi-Wan watching) - so he saw the fall of his pupil and friend, can pick up the lighsaber for Luke and doesn't be the cruel liar ...

- another idea for this "bigger insight" of Obi-Wan (through the force!):

as Obi-Wan sacrifices himself to help Luke and friends escape, he merges with the Force and finds out, A) Anakin didn't die, he became "Darth Vader" (aka "Maul") - B) and this is a concept on how to keep Yoda "a secret" (not for us viewers, but when I was younger I knew he was the Jedi Master and not some gnome!): if Yoda "died" in the "Clone Wars" (or during "Order 666"), maybe he got shot down on Dagobah, making his "island" his new home (ala Robinson Crusoe), even a Sith Assassin could have crashed with him ...

so Obi-Wan after "death" could have gotten "infos" about his pupils and master (as to where he is, telling Luke later on Hoth in a vision) - in RotJ the dialog needs to be altered, so he doesn't throw his "point of view" curveball, and giving Luke another lesson how the Force unviels the shroud of darkness ;-)

moving to RotJ:

- I like to have Luke complete his training, maybe build his lightsaber on Dagobah, then going over to Vader and the new Deathstar (hm, some brought up the question, if the rebels name it like that - why just don't call it the "Ultimate Weapon", because it will be or is)

- the Palace rescue is rather botched, so if it isn't all for Luke or a overall plan, the better, because it seems very improvised, so Leia got impatient and took matters in her hands, before Luke could come up with a working one ...

- dancing scene: why not add "Mara Jade" (don't know how she called herself there) for an interlude - mixing a new version of "Lapti Nek" without the lyrics, only the melody (because we got very different music in Star Wars, so a disco style isn't so bad)

- Boba Fett shouldn't be Jabbas bodyguard, if he is in Jedi, then give him a purpose, like deliver the info to the Rebels (that could show he hasn't a clear path, and only money is his interest)

- thought about the Sarlacc, the beak isn't very convincing, give it better working tentacles also, like in "Tremors" or "Grabbers" ;-)

- what I really like from the ANH:SE is the "Imperial Transport Shuttle", this should be the one that the "strike force" could take to Endor, the other is just too small and more like a limo for personal transport and not for equipment shippments ...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sentinel-class_landing_craft

speaking of shuttles, how about changing Palpatines to the one he had in RotS ?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Theta-class_T-2c_shuttle

only with more imperial / royal markings - so Vader would be the only one with the classic Lambda shuttle:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lambda-class_T-4a_shuttle

now the viewer has more ships and is not distracted as to why the Empire has only 1 ship for all *g*

as for ships: we need MORE B-Wings - I want to see them blast apart some SDs like in the promo shot, that was posted everywhere back then!

- so the Rebels land with the "new" ship and split to get to the shield bunker ... this could add later for the search Vader orders: some Troopers or a Biker patrol could find the empty ship and report this - giving more tension, as to what the next morning will bring (more Troops!)

maybe the Rebels could have brought the "Endor Speeder" (that was made into a toy, but never seen onscreen), for scouting out the area?

I like the notion that the Rebels could stakeout the place before moving in with Han and company ...

- now to what I dislike: Ewoks to be a brutal fighting machine - no no no to that, if at all, they should be scouts and clever inhabitants of the woods, so helping the Rebels, YES, but NO extreme Rambo traps - that is the thing that just jumps out to comical ...

have them put up some fight, but not giving much damage to heavily armed troops!

only one thing I could imagine that would work as a "suprise" which is in line with this primitive tribe, could be that they lure a (some) beast(s), into a stampede to attack the Imperial Forces (making them use Nature against Technology!)

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Ronster said:

The story needs a reason to be told, and show how things are connected that you would never guess. Not My Dad, My Mum, My Brother, My Sister, My Uncle, My Auntie, My Son, My Daughter,My Business, My Politics,  My 2nd cousins goldfishes niece. It is a Trash piece. The thing about it is the plot is so bad and so mind numbingly simple that I would even struggle to write something as bad as these films and I am not a writer.

Are we really meant to believe we are in this large Universe where everyone is related to one another in some way at a very close level. The story also lacks any kind of maturity that even a child would ask simple yet big questions without thought and if aimed at children how did it manage to educate or teach them anything of the world we live in. What was the moral of the story?

You could argue that the prequels focused on Politics and that they tried to show that some politicians will say whatever they can and manipulate to get into power for their own desires?

 some of your ideas are really hard to fit in, but this sums it up:

the OT was a fairy tale told for/to teenagers, so kids and adults could relate to it ...

the PT is a soap told to kids - and this is why it failed!

Lucas didn't understand the whys and whats of the OT - back then he just took "Dune" and mixed it with many good ideas from great stories (Flash Gordon, Kurosawa, etc.)

the PT lacks most of the "background" - and when it comes into play (AotC - "The Searchers") it blalantly copies the original (in design)

Star Wars had its share of politics too, but it was presented in short interesting dialoge brought by clever characters (Tarkin!)

more than Rise of Palpatine/Vader (or Fall of the Republic/Jedi) we need to see the conflicting parties in the senate (hawks VS doves), the military pushing for more control and power (money!) and the peaceful systems (Alderaan) warning to not burn the whole galaxy and bringing a civil war afterwards (like what we got in the OT!)

maybe show some plotting, even the "good" guys take desperate meassures, founding coalitions with others, who are shady ...

best possibility to add Mon Mothma and other pre-Alliance members (also cut scene available here)

there are some nice ideas how to lay out the events of the PT - "Clone Wars", that meant for me ALWAYS, that there would be at least 1 group who used cloned troops to overcome the other side

the question remains: what after the last "Clone War" ?

one solution, which stands out like the "pink elephant", is to have Jedi clone troops - should they fight against "Sith" ? or "Mandalorians" or just against Droids, later the other side steals the cloning technology and it goes to an all-out WAR ... resulting , that cloning is forbidden or completely lost (or forgotten)

"Midichlorians" had the only purpose in my mind, to explain, why there are / could be no clones of the Jedi (or why the "Sith" didn't do it first - other than have that stupid "Rule of 2")

as for lightsabers: I am on the train that there should be more colors than blue/red/green - because in the beginning Lucas had only white ones (Wow!) - and blue/red is nicer looking - later green was made to help post production, because blue saber on blue sky wasn't that good ...

so back then it was a technical problem/sollution - not the mystical meaning (yeah later maybe) - so what, let the Jedi have multicolored sabers, mabye not all colors, only the light ones for "good" and red always for "Sith" - and maybe "purple" for outcasts (like "Dooku")

like I said before, Lucas took many ideas from "Dune" therefore "Prophecy", "Genetics" and the "Messiah" - even the desert planet - are mirrored in Star Wars - but he forgot to add "Spice" or another link, so that some points make sense (as to why "Tatooine" should be the most important planet, even when we are told by Luke it should not be so ...)

Ady wants to make the "cloning tech" the maguffin of the PT - fine, even Bingos "Heritage" or "Cult" idea could work, all depends on whats next ;-)

not sure if I want to have the "slave plot", yeah "Spartacus" would have been cool, but we didn't get there - but if one like to have it, maybe try some footage from "Stargate" ? - give a new look to "Tatooine" or other planet and can be tweaked into more

so if we take homage, better make "Ben Hur" into a "Skyhopper" race (like some proposed), and Anakin a skilled pilot - even the idea to have him or Owen be spice traders would fit nicely

like Bingo, I am fond of the "Jekyll/Hide" transformation of Anakin - making the "Dark Side" into a "drug" that alters mind, soul and body ("Secret Window" indeed) - so extra to some nightmares he got, he could have fights or visions (which we later learn are internal conflicts like Lukes "duel" in the cave)

but I would keep "Maul" aswell, only change "Dooku" to a fallen Jedi (maybe restore the "Lost 20") - "Maul" would transform from "ex-pupil" to "proto-Vader", killing himself off in RotS in duel with "Anakin"

no "Grievous", because his storyline was all offscreen, so he didn't function as a working character - better cut or salvage what can be used from him

for "Sidious": I would keep him in all PTs as a holo, like in ESB, no connection to Palpatine (which is a ruthless politician, but only interested in "history" and "arifacts"), never leaving his secure lair ...

maybe keep "Padme" alive, only for her eventually to die in ANH or show up much older from exile in RotJ

which brings me to an idea very radical:

as for 6 parts of "Star Wars" - I would start before "Episode 1" with a prologe of different scenes, overlayed by voiceover explaining what is what, then move on to "Chapter 1" - Episodes 2-5 would be all with crawl and no dialoge at end, but "Episode 6" should end with an epiloge, that states what happened in the next months/years (maybe to leave an open end for more adventures ...)

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Doc Sportello said:

That's funny I originally titled it The Hidden Planet, based on my love for the 1956 film The Forbidden Planet and obviously The Hidden Fortress. Later changing it to The Missing Planet to match Obi-Wan's dialogue exchange with r4, but I agree The Hidden Planet is the superior title. Very Flash Gordon.

"The Hidden Planet" it is!

 Ha! that are two very nice references ...

I would have called one Episode "The Lost Planet" to keep it ambiguous, as to if the location is not known or it is destroyed ;-)

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The Lost Planet, is a fun variant on the theme (it's populated by polar bears and smoke monsters).

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[quote=brimforge]




 some of your ideas are really hard to fit in, but this sums it up:
prologe of different scenes...


You managed to get the prequeal trilogy down to a 10 minute prologue I applaud you :)

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arg, "LOST Planet" wasn't what I had in mind ... at least my version would have an ending, that made sense ;-P

@Ronster

hehe, I thought more of a "recap" of "The Old Republic" (or other "Tales of the Jedi") - so we really don't need to explain (again?) what the Force is, or Jedi, Sith, and so on ...

had some ideas, but they need some more thinking and cleaning before I throw them into this room ;-)

edit: I remember one thing I forgot to include in my lists:

3PO and R2 on Endor - so ok, the astromech is sort of the "swiss army knife", he has his purpose (even if he fails to open the door ...)

but 3PO stands out as the sore thumb in the green woods :-/

here I would add some idols (totems) picturing some gods or deities, resembling our golden boy ;-)

again the protocol droid is only part of the group because story needs him as the translator ...

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brimforge said: for "Sidious": I would keep him in all PTs as a holo, like in ESB, no connection to Palpatine (which is a ruthless politician, but only interested in "history" and "arifacts"), never leaving his secure lair ...

Would you ignore the fact that The Emperor has been called Palpatine since 1976  or would Sidious and Palpatine be 2 Dark Side users with no connection to each other?

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darklordoftech said:

brimforge said: for "Sidious": I would keep him in all PTs as a holo, like in ESB, no connection to Palpatine (which is a ruthless politician, but only interested in "history" and "arifacts"), never leaving his secure lair ...

Would you ignore the fact that The Emperor has been called Palpatine since 1976  or would Sidious and Palpatine be 2 Dark Side users with no connection to each other?

He's never referred to as Palpatine on screen until the Prequels as far as I'm aware...

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brash_stryker said:

darklordoftech said:

brimforge said: for "Sidious": I would keep him in all PTs as a holo, like in ESB, no connection to Palpatine (which is a ruthless politician, but only interested in "history" and "arifacts"), never leaving his secure lair ...

Would you ignore the fact that The Emperor has been called Palpatine since 1976  or would Sidious and Palpatine be 2 Dark Side users with no connection to each other?

He's never referred to as Palpatine on screen until the Prequels as far as I'm aware...

He's referred to as Palpatine in the novelizations of ANH and ROTJ.

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Exactly....I don't think it matters what his name is in a novelisation. This is an edit of the movie.

Same goes for Adywan disregarding EU.

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@darklordoftech

we are talking the movies here - NO other sources ;-)

and the OT only refers him as "The Emperor" - so no damage done here ...

if we would take credit what the novels said, Owen and Ben would be brothers :-/

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Sorry, newbie here. I was just wondering, Adywan, how you plan on handling Anakin's fall, in order to preserve the ESB surprise and in compliance with Ben's statements in ANH. I myself had recently been pondering a plot line of Maul as Kenobi's fallen pupil, who returns and is assumed to be Vader, while Anakin is presumed dead. This led me to thinking about what you might plan on doing. Thanks.

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RX-24 said:

Sorry, newbie here. I was just wondering, Adywan, how you plan on handling Adywan's fall, in order to preserve the ESB surprise and in compliance with Ben's statements in ANH. I myself had recently been pondering a plot line of Maul as Kenobi's fallen pupil, who returns and is assumed to be Vader, while Anakin is presumed dead. This led me to thinking about what you might plan on doing. Thanks.

 Given the baddie-of-the-film nature of the prequels, it's not hard to have Obi leave Ani for dead, and we never see Ani again. A new bad guy shows up in the next movie, dressed in black, and Obi lies, saying "Oh yeah! That guy in black! HE killed your dad! Definitely not me!" as a means of helping motivate Luke to fight the Empire and cover his rear end.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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RX-24 said:


I was just wondering, Adywan, how you plan on handling Adywan's fall
I'm sure Ady will handle his own fall quite gracefully. ;-)

Real answer: SECRETS

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

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Hi!  I have returned from a long, LONG absence.

I'd like to start off with a public apology for my childish behavior years ago.  If you don't remember, it's best not to.  If you do, I promise it won't happen again.

Now for my two cents in this forum.  For a small start in contribution, the scene in Episode III with the medical droids telling Obi-Wan and Bail Organa that Padme is dying, I feel some of those lines should be removed.  I think it would work better like this:

Droid - We are losing her.

Obi-Wan - She's dying?

Droid - We must operate quickly if we are to save the babies.

Bail - Babies?

Droid - She's carrying twins.

Simply remove the "lost the will to live" excuse and let the reason of her death be Anakin's Force Choke while she was in a delicate condition.

Also for Episode III, remove the "I'm so in love with you" scene between Anakin and Padme entirely.  After Grievous' talk with Sidous, we cut right to Anakin's nightmare.

Don't know of Ady would consider this, but a reason to back-up Leia remembering what little she does about her real mother could be that while she lived on Alderaan, her adopted father showed her holographic images of her mother from when she served in the Republic Senate.  It would similarly to the deleted second from "Episode II" when Padme talks about her childhood friends who died and Anakin sees moving images of them on the wall of her bedroom.

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Welcome back! (though I don't know what happened ^.^)

interesting ideas, because it solves the "lost will to live" drama

though, to be seen is, if an editor wants Padme (or other name for Luke&Leia's mom) to die onscreen ...

and if it is "needed" to show the seperation of the twins - this could work better if we only see Obi-Wan carrying Luke to Tatooine, not showing Leia being the "other Skywalker" ;-)

on behalf of Anakin & Padme: much of the dialogue needs to be fixed - cut and/or rewritten - it's just bad ... the OT wasn't Shakespear, but it had flair (to throw a word into the pot)

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brimforge said:

Welcome back! (though I don't know what happened ^.^)

interesting ideas, because it solves the "lost will to live" drama

though, to be seen is, if an editor wants Padme (or other name for Luke&Leia's mom) to die onscreen ...

and if it is "needed" to show the seperation of the twins - this could work better if we only see Obi-Wan carrying Luke to Tatooine, not showing Leia being the "other Skywalker" ;-)

on behalf of Anakin & Padme: much of the dialogue needs to be fixed - cut and/or rewritten - it's just bad ... the OT wasn't Shakespear, but it had flair (to throw a word into the pot)

Thank you.

Yeah, I definitely agree to that.

I also agree that Padme's death doesn't really need to be shown on screen.

Depending on how the editor thinks, the separation of the twins could be kept in tact.  I say this based on the high probability that more fans would show the original trilogy to new viewers first.  Also because Leia's delivery to Alderaan was our first (and so far only) glimpse at what the world looks like on planet.

LOL I know what you mean.  Sometimes I think it would be easier paying Hayden and Natalie to re-shoot those scenes.

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IF Naboo and Alderaan stay to be two different planets, yes - otherwise, there is no means to show Leia being transported to her "secret home"

so new viewers would riddle who the "other Skywalker" is ;-)

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Understandable :D

I'd make revisted suggestions for Episode 1, but I think "The Phantom Edit" and all those others like it pretty say it all ;)