The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 34

It would be easier to have Qui-Gon suggest to the council that Vader is already sufficiently trained when Kenobi decides to take on Anakin as his pupil (using the lines directed at Obi-Wan). You could maybe add a shot of a youth either screwing his face up because of being put out by the new arrival or filling with hubris from this swift promotion to Knight.

Either way could lead to the Dark Side.

The slaying of the Tuskens, assassinations of Jedi (currently done by Grievous and the clones following order 66666666) and the Raid on the Temple could then be done by Darth Vader in Anakin's nightmares.

We could see Anakin rush to the Chancellor from Mace (who is genuinely acting above his authority despite being right about the courts being rigged). We could then assume Anakin is killed when Palpatine changes and starts throwing lightening around.

The Anakin/Kenobi duel could edit all visible references to Anakin down to a red saber and Obi-wan narrowly defeating an unseen former pupil.

Bingowings said:

These films are about a Galactic Civil war.

They are fun for us because they are exciting and the characters are engaging.

Once again I refer to the briefing in ANH.

The pilots look worried, Han frequently shows signs of disbelief at what he is hearing.

It's all very pessimistic.

This makes the final battle more intense, more emotionally realistic and more enjoyably exciting for the audience.

If the situation is less tangible and the characters can't be bothered to take things seriously why should we?

This makes the pay off to the action less exciting, cinematically it malfunctions.

Is it against the rules to randomly quote for truth? I might have necro-quoted as well. Oh dear.

Reegar said:

Bingowings said:

These films are about a Galactic Civil war.

They are fun for us because they are exciting and the characters are engaging.

Once again I refer to the briefing in ANH.

The pilots look worried, Han frequently shows signs of disbelief at what he is hearing.

It's all very pessimistic.

This makes the final battle more intense, more emotionally realistic and more enjoyably exciting for the audience.

If the situation is less tangible and the characters can't be bothered to take things seriously why should we?

This makes the pay off to the action less exciting, cinematically it malfunctions.

Is it against the rules to randomly quote for truth? I might have necro-quoted as well. Oh dear.

An entire trilogy's worth of battles fought by/against droids or clones. So they die. So what? Sigh.

Bingowings said:

It would be easier to have Qui-Gon suggest to the council that Vader is already sufficiently trained when Kenobi decides to take on Anakin as his pupil (using the lines directed at Obi-Wan). You could maybe add a shot of a youth either screwing his face up because of being put out by the new arrival or filling with hubris from this swift promotion to Knight.

Either way could lead to the Dark Side.

The slaying of the Tuskens, assassinations of Jedi (currently done by Grievous and the clones following order 66666666) and the Raid on the Temple could then be done by Darth Vader in Anakin's nightmares.

We could see Anakin rush to the Chancellor from Mace (who is genuinely acting above his authority despite being right about the courts being rigged). We could then assume Anakin is killed when Palpatine changes and starts throwing lightening around.

The Anakin/Kenobi duel could edit all visible references to Anakin down to a red saber and Obi-wan narrowly defeating an unseen former pupil.

If the viewer believes the emperor to have killed Anakin, that will undermine the whole "former pupil betraying your father" thing so we'll know something is up as soon as Ben says this blatant lie. Having said this, I love your idea of Qui Gon suggesting Obi's existing apprentice is ready when he takes on Anakin. 

I feel the dissociative fugue idea only works if it's after Anakin's "death", so more like a metaphorical possession when he kills the original Darth i.e. the torch is passed. To have it happen in a 'Tyler Durden' way while the audience is still under the impression he's alive/a good person is a bit of a cop out IMO.

nightstalkerpoet said:

The difference is that you don't need to do it in a Tyler Durden way...

You don't need to but it's the only way I can see of feeling sympathy for ROTJ Vader and relief/belief at his redemption.

If he is unaware what he is doing and genuinely insane while killing children etc and then awakes to the horror of what he has done and loses hope of undoing it, you can get behind the poor guy once he does something to undo what happened when he lost control of his mind.

If at any point he is aware throwing an old man down a hole just isn't enough to earn his redemption, just as Padme dying of a broken heart works counter to the audience sympathy.

brash_stryker said:

If the viewer believes the emperor to have killed Anakin, that will undermine the whole "former pupil betraying your father" thing.

Anakin is a former pupil, Vader is a former pupil.

You could stick Vader in the room too or instead if that's really important to you.

Bingowings said:

If he is unaware what he is doing and genuinely insane

That's actually why it doesn't work for me. You're essentially talking about him being schizophrenic, and in my opinion that cheapens his fall and seduction for me. We don't want Anakin to be good all along and just not being able to help what he initially. We want him to be good, then bad, which adds that weight to his fall and subsequent redemption.

At least, that's how I see it....

brash_stryker said:

Bingowings said:

If he is unaware what he is doing and genuinely insane

That's actually why it doesn't work for me. You're essentially talking about him being schizophrenic, and in my opinion that cheapens his fall and seduction for me. We don't want Anakin to be good all along and just not being able to help what he initially. We want him to be good, then bad, which adds that weight to his fall and subsequent redemption.

At least, that's how I see it....

Ditto.

Yes it does let him off the hook but that's the point.

It's impossible to forgive a mass murdering evil person.

It's possible to forgive a mental ill person who then goes on to work for the evil guys.

The end of the story requires redemption and forgiveness to work.

So you either make his acts less hideous or you make him less responsible for them.

Either way his fall changes in character.

Keep it as it is and you are keeping a broken characterisation.

Bingowings said:

 

It's impossible to forgive a mass murdering evil person.

It's possible to forgive a mental ill person who then goes on to work for the evil guys.

The end of the story requires redemption and forgiveness to work.

 

The redemption works just fine in ROTJ pre 1999 when we knew Vader had done terrible things. Why can't it work in an edit where Vader does terrible things?

Bingowings said:

 

Keep it as it is and you are keeping a broken characterisation.

We're on the fan edit forum.....why would we be keeping it as it is? :p

I wondered if in a ROTS edit, anakin could slowly turn to the dark side, and only realise mid duel with obi-wan. At the point he realises he is now the monster, he could throw himself into the lava, essentially killing himself. Whatever is left continues to become Vader.

brash_stryker said:

Bingowings said:

 

It's impossible to forgive a mass murdering evil person.

It's possible to forgive a mental ill person who then goes on to work for the evil guys.

The end of the story requires redemption and forgiveness to work.

 

The redemption works just fine in ROTJ pre 1999 when we knew Vader had done terrible things. Why can't it work in an edit where Vader does terrible things?

This is were we have a difference of opinion.

It's a step in the right direction but even dying to save your son doesn't fully redeem even OT Vader.

If there was another episode in 1986 we could have Seb Shaw playing Anakin's ghost guiding his son to where he had done damage and helping him repair it.

Even if Lucas didn't want to do it the EU should have (there was a hint of that in the post-ROTJ Marvel comics before they finally folded).

An idea that's popped in my head after posting elsewhere.

What if the Stormtoopers in the Endor battle are just the troops that would be guarding the shield projector and a new scary uniform is designed for the 3000-6000 best troops that Palpatine has hidden to spring the trap on the strike force.

It would be recognisable that the legion is on top of the other troops and add more or a threat.

They could be a few people filmed many times and added to the footage.

Bingowings said:

 

This is were we have a difference of opinion.

It's a step in the right direction but even dying to save your son doesn't fully redeem even OT Vader.

If there was another episode in 1986 we could have Seb Shaw playing Anakin's ghost guiding his son to where he had done damage and helping him repair it.

Even if Lucas didn't want to do it the EU should have (there was a hint of that in the post-ROTJ Marvel comics before they finally folded).

I don't think it's important that the audience forgives Vader or thinks he's made up for everything. It's only important that he has an arc. A redemption can still be powerful even if you still wouldn't invite them to your Birthday party after.

After all, at this point, it's Luke's story, and in an ideal Prequel edit, it would be Obi Wan's.

The emphasis wouldn't be on Anakin anymore. The audience would be less affronted due to Anakin being a secondary character.

He also wouldn't be doing all these terrible things (or at least he wouldn't be seen blatantly doing them). You can show Vader being evil simply through his allegiance - marching with troopers, giving orders, etc. You don't need to show him gutting little children. Doesn't this make him easier to forgive in ROTJ? We never get the impression in the OT that he's anything more than a henchman. Why does a PT edit need to be any different?

brash_stryker said:

After all, at this point, it's Luke's story, and in an ideal Prequel edit, it would be Obi Wan's.

This is why the PT rise and fall of Anakin doesn't work, but the OT redemption does.

Well... not yet ;-D

Replace Palpatine's ROTJ advisors with Sly Moore and Mas Amedda.

Show what happened to the Empire at the end of ROTJ.

Just curious: have all 6 movies been color-corrected?

darklordoftech said:

Replace Palpatine's ROTJ advisors with Sly Moore and Mas Amedda.

Show what happened to the Empire at the end of ROTJ.

Just curious: have all 6 movies been color-corrected?

I think the ROTJ advisers ought to remain human. We never see any other non humans working for the Empire. I think adding any in would undermine the whole xenophobic, human-only "master race" vibe, which makes the Empire and the Emperor seem as evil as they do.

As for your question, unless Ady has been colour grading other films in secret, then I think the only one he's corrected is the one he's currently fully working on - Empire.

timdiggerm said:

brash_stryker said:

darklordoftech said:

Replace Palpatine's ROTJ advisors with Sly Moore and Mas Amedda.

Show what happened to the Empire at the end of ROTJ.

Just curious: have all 6 movies been color-corrected?

I think the ROTJ advisers ought to remain human. We never see any other non humans working for the Empire. I think adding any in would undermine the whole xenophobic, human-only "master race" vibe, which makes the Empire and the Emperor seem as evil as they do.

I really think there's room for them to be added. But never at the sacrifice of any of the grumpy dudes.

I wish there was a "like" button. I should have thought of the fact that Moore and Amedda could be added without deleting the human advisors.

I'm more interested in the possibility of replacing these two in the prequels with more interesting characters, for instance, a certain Captain Tarkin.

Honestly, only one of these characters actually speaks! And when he does it's not to say anything particularly interesting - "Order, we shall have order" and "If only Senator Amidala were here" are the only 2 lines I remember. And both lines are spoken with the same flat boring delivery as everyone else seems to have in the prequels.

You both seem to want to insert them to unify the two trilogies (I'm guessing?). I'd rather do it the other way around. There's nothing even vaguely interesting about them.