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The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 26

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nightstalkerpoet said:

Trying to wrap my head around the cloning idea. Can honestly say, I did not see that coming at all.

Technically, cloning is "the ability to create life". Perhaps this could be what Palpatine tells Anakin in RotS, in a way that manipulate him without ever truly lying. And if, as many believe, Anakin is the product of "creating life" then perhaps Anakin is actually a clone of Palpatine...

Finding some old footage of McDiarmid, and implementing it as the Ghost of Anakin would tie that up rather nicely in Jedi ;)

That is an extremely interesting take on the cloning idea...

Jango wanted an unaltered clone for a son.

Palpatine obviously refers to his mentor that he kills in his sleep that "had the ability to create life.."

Anakin has no father yet why would he be inseminated in to his mother in for conception and not produced in a factory like Boba?

What is so special about his mother? or different about his mother that made her chosen as a host as opposed to a factory?

Or there does not need to be anything special about his mother only that she was implanted with a type of weird force power sperm from Palps mentor (Darth Plaguies) before palps murdered him as a way to avert his total destruction and carry on his life as he may of sensed palpatine wanted to kill him.

The Irony of this is, that Anakin joined the dark side to get the ability to stop people from dying when it was inherrent in him if this was a possible plot but would need to relearn the skill and palps was never taught or powerful enough to do this.

I think if this was to be a plot point for revisited the ultimate revelation of this would be better that luke dies and is brought back to life in ROTJ in the throne room after Vader throws Sideous down to his death.

Quoting again "He could save others but he could not save himself"

It would certainly be a way to go out making any PT story more valid and it is such a small thing to show Luke dead and Vaders Hand Glowing or something before Luke comes over to comfort him.

Very simple effects and will totally blow people way out there and give a whole different meaning to who Vader actually was. But I could also somehow imagine breaking down in tears over that especially if it was done in the right way with proper music.

Luke also acting like he is trying to save Vader when he has no knowledge that he was dead a few moments ago.

I think if there were to be any changes to the OT for story in the PT this should be the only one that would be remotely acceptable in terms of connecting the dots and the huge emotional pay off involved.

Not only this but if you take force ghosts being a power available to the good side of the force of prolonging existance, the dark art of the force the power would be practiced within the normal universe an not an etherial plane. This gives Balance and shows the Good side as ether oriented and the darkside as Physically manifested

So to connect the dots further this would also call for removal of Anakin's ghost entire with Ben and Yoda and Vader's redemption would be different and show the power of the dark side in a different form as the force ghost is a contradiction of Vader's abilities and what the practice of a totally powerful dark side master can achieve.

It is Radical Idea but it's rock solid and unwavering 

 

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If a theme is needed for the PT, couldn't that theme (or a background theme) be more emphasis on the formation of the rebellion.

Knowing Adywan plan to shoot new footage, even trying to add one additional scene between two established characters would be difficult.  For example between Obi Wan and Anakin you would need two actors with a striking similarity in both looks and voices.  Also costumes would need to be very close replicas.  But even then these need to be good actors otherwise it would just be more weak performances to add to the PT.  Obviously one of both of these characters could be recast, but then that presents the problem of compositing the new actors seemless in place of the old actors.

My suggestion would be to recast a very small number of characters that have very little screentime, such as Tarkin, Bail Organa, and a rebellion leader such as Mon Mothma.  Bail would be the biggest change, but it would allow much of the politics in the films to be altered to something more interesting. 

An example would be to make the gungans a species that lives on another planet near to Naboo, but not Naboo itself.  They can arrive on Naboo in order to help free the Naboo, along with a small allied force from Alderaan lead by the newly recast Bail.  The Naboo fighters can beome Alderaan fighters, and the space battle now becomes Naboo being liberated by Alderaan and the gungans. 

The reason I would like to see more Tarkin is because it can push Palpatine into the background, helping to preserve any surprise he is evil, by making Tarkin appear to be the one who is pushing for increased military and a stronger, harsher republic.  Also by having full control over what footage can be created between these new actors, a scene could be made showing Bail being reprimanded for taking unauthorised military action, and later, the republic ordering the demiliterisation of Alderaan. 

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Naboo and Alderaan are on the same level, so there is no need to worry about 'demilitarisation', it would go against the spirit of the first film to do so.

Alderaan was meant to be 'peaceful' and have no weapons because they were decent people who became victims of despotic military dictatorship.

Leia was involved with espionage and backing the rebels but the general populace wasn't.

Having a small flight of defending fighters and a small security force isn't being militarised either so the two worlds are already basically the same.

What I liked about the original film is everything in it was transferable to a real world situation.

Blowing up a planet on a galactic scale is like blowing up a city on a planetary scale so the Death Star is basically the atomic bomb.

Cloning tech as a secret weapon makes no sense to me.

It makes more sense to me if the Republic already knows how to do that but doesn't because it's slavery but when Palpatine manipulates the Separatists into making droid armies the people of the Republic ditch their principles.

It makes Naboo too special if Palpatine gets the source of the droid and clone armies from the same place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Does anyone here think Darth Plaguies had a hand in the Immaculate conception of Anakin?

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Bingowings said:

Naboo and Alderaan are on the same level, so there is no need to worry about 'demilitarisation', it would go against the spirit of the first film to do so.

Alderaan was meant to be 'peaceful' and have no weapons because they were decent people who became victims of despotic military dictatorship.

Leia was involved with espionage and backing the rebels but the general populace wasn't.

Having a small flight of defending fighters and a small security force isn't being militarised either so the two worlds are already basically the same.

What I liked about the original film is everything in it was transferable to a real world situation.

But if Ady is taking his editing to the level he has suggested then as far as the PT is concerned he can remake the story as he sees fit.  Naboo could become Alderaan or Naboo could change.  As it stands I'm not suggesting they are very different or either to have a large military force, just that the blockading force be too big for Naboo alone, so a few nearby planets come to help.  Alderaan would still be considered a peaceful planet, just one who stepped up to help a neighbour in need.  There are many real world examples of small groups allying against a larger agressive force so it would still have that feel.  It would just also provide a glimpse into the rebellion in its early stages. 

Also by doing this Jar Jar could be made a scout who has arrived on Naboo ahead of the other gungans in order to assess the situation, before later rejoining the army for a final battle. 

 

 

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One thing I would very much like to see is the underwater city of the Gungans turned into more of a hideout, or cloning facility. I hated that an elephant footed, floppy eared race of beings supposedly lived underwater......they do not resemble aquatic beings at all. If Ady is redoing much of the dialogue (or all of it) for the Gungans, then it should be very simple to bring across the idea that they live on land (and they actually DO spend more time on land in the film than they do underwater) (this would also aid in making it plausible that they also have trained many of the land based creatures on Naboo to be their pack animals and/or mounts). The underwater city should definitely be their secondary place of residence, or where they do their work, or a hideout of sorts.

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The underwater city could be seen as a sort of reservation.

If the Federation first conquered the Gungans being amphibious they could retreat underwater and maybe have an uneasy relationship with them (I suggested a cargo cult where they saw them as gods).

If the Naboo then conquered the Federation and took over the land the Gungans might even be resentful.

By both sides entering the Republic the political situation could have simmered for centuries.

Look what happened when regimes like Tito and the USSR fell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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          Maybe it could be a general thing. The more Jedi mature in the Force the less interested they are in being pilots.  That is seen as a thing for apprentices and regular young knights with a couple masters going along. Reluctance a little less specific to Obi
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muddyknees2000 said:

 

Also, this is a fictional universe. I have no problem believing that things there are not necessarily as they are here. Perhaps, even with all the other scientific advancements they HAVE managed, cloning still eluded them until just recently (in their time) (a long time ago, in our time).

The Star Wars universe is clearly an alternate timeline to ours in terms of technological advancement as they've clearly discovered energy weapons before projectiles (because otherwise they'd be using machine guns instead of laser blasts that move so slowly you can see them with the naked eye and dodge them!) and also it clearly obeys different physical laws to our universe (being able to hear stuff in space or walk around in an asteroid). I have absolutely no problem believing that the discovery of cloning is a new thing.

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adywan said:

If a race has perfected the process and that all it's inhabitants are living proof, this would be something that could potentially be a gold mine. Palpatine wants his army of clones mass produced. He's from Naboo and knows all about the Gungans. It's all part of his plan.

Not "all".

If all of them are clones, then there's the question of replicative fading (errors created by making copies of copies).

 

Also, if I may say, the whole idea sounds too "sci-fi" and not enough "space fantasy".

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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muddyknees2000 said:

One thing I would very much like to see is the underwater city of the Gungans turned into more of a hideout, or cloning facility. I hated that an elephant footed, floppy eared race of beings supposedly lived underwater......they do not resemble aquatic beings at all. If Ady is redoing much of the dialogue (or all of it) for the Gungans, then it should be very simple to bring across the idea that they live on land (and they actually DO spend more time on land in the film than they do underwater) (this would also aid in making it plausible that they also have trained many of the land based creatures on Naboo to be their pack animals and/or mounts). The underwater city should definitely be their secondary place of residence, or where they do their work, or a hideout of sorts.

If they were more primitive I would agree with you.  But since they have technology that is actually more advanced than ours in many ways, I could easily see them evolving as terranean creatures, and then as they developed and competition between their race and the humans arose, they found a niche underwater that they could maintain with their little bubble city.  In fact, Jar Jar calls Gunga City a hidden city, which could be interpreted as an exception rather than the rule for Gungan metropolises.  So I don't think it's impossible to see them as creatures capable of enjoying both land and sea.

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As for the cloning theme throughout, I think it's an excellent idea.  As pointed out, there are ways in which our technology is more advanced than that of the Star Wars universe.  Moreover, every bit of evidence is given in the PT and EU (for what that's worth to anyone) that perfecting the art has been difficult.  Our earthly cloning is a laborious process.  It requires the tedious removal of genetic material from an existing ovum, inserting DNA from the prospective cloned creature into the new ovum, placing that ovum into the uterus of a living creature of the same species, hoping implants and grows to term.  If the creature is successfully born, there still remain some faults that result in reduced health and a shortened lifespan due to improper gene expression over time.  As a result, cloning is still quite imperfect, and may remain that way for quite some time.  Imagine how the Kaminoans have overcome that, dramatically increased the rate of growth during incubation, programmed personalities and vast knowledge into those brains, and have done so with a fiscally responsible success rate (check out the failure rate for Dolly the sheep: she represents 0.36% of attempts--the only success!).  I think an entire race of clones could prove quite valuable, indicative of a technology worth stealing in preparation for war!

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TPM was very much the ugly duckling of the PT and just like the ugly duckling by the end of he film it was the closest to the OT for a small while in parts (like becoming the beautiful swan).

It's hard to know how the cloning plot will be the "missing link" between TPM and ATOC... But it does essentially need a plot device that is relevant or a theme to carry over to the next episode.

I wondered if there were any plans to age obi-wan and give him a cgi beard so this would make all footage from other episodes available but then again that is plots from another episode... He atleast played his part fairly well in ATOC and ROTS but young Obi-wan was not so good... Perhaps that was intentional though as he was still padywan learner.

Some Rob-Roy footage could be used for liam neesom perhaps. But again it's perhaps a stretch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-2kzujLA8

I don't know how possible integrating footage from other films in terms of plot and characters or just elements of footage are but using footage from battle beyond the stars or other space fantasy films with model work I would welcome that over cgi.

I think the model work from battle beyond the stars has been used in about 3 films already

As far as gunguns go I don't know if this is possible but they could do with a complete re-design a mixture of Abe-sapien the creature from the black lagoon and swamp thing would be how I would imagine aquatic creatures in a star wars universe not what we got in TPM

 

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I like the idea of mixing the Kamino city with Gungan city so they are both the same place (one above the waves and the other under the sea) but that would mean moving the Gungan city elements off Naboo and wouldn't fit what Ady says he wants to do with the Naboo story.

Are all the clones troopers going to be Jar-Jar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Although I have read the plan for PT:R it does not essentially say what it is setting out to acheive.

I think if some kind of mission statement was offered up It would help people put better ideas in the melting pot when we know what it's goal is.

You only need to look at one page on this star wars fan edits forum to see how so many different people interpret star wars.

These are the immediate things that spring to mind when I hear PT:R and wonder what it actually is.

1. Is it going to be made to feel like it was made before episode IV or atleast the same in terms of looks or even older and more retro 70's

2. We know that it is going to set about fixing plot points and keeping continuity with the plot but in terms of extra characters are we going to have main character that "breaks the rules" basically a replacement Han Solo character because the PT really needed a character that was not straight laced and goody two shoes... That was not afraid to scream at people to get the job at hand done... Love able rogue type

3. Is using footage from "other" sources an option especially for the likes of the characters in the Trilogy or in others or anything else that might work

4. John Williams score is great but in terms of music will there be any musical numbers this again is something that was absent from the PT people can dig around or even compose for stuff that fits

The reason I ask is because It is such a huge undertaking I am sure people would want to at least if they put ideas over be on the right track

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muddyknees2000 said:

One thing I would very much like to see is the underwater city of the Gungans turned into more of a hideout, or cloning facility. I hated that an elephant footed, floppy eared race of beings supposedly lived underwater......they do not resemble aquatic beings at all. If Ady is redoing much of the dialogue (or all of it) for the Gungans, then it should be very simple to bring across the idea that they live on land (and they actually DO spend more time on land in the film than they do underwater) (this would also aid in making it plausible that they also have trained many of the land based creatures on Naboo to be their pack animals and/or mounts). The underwater city should definitely be their secondary place of residence, or where they do their work, or a hideout of sorts.

They are meant to be amphibian (though they do look more like sea-dragons than frogs).

We train dolphins and we can only breath underwater with machines so that aspect of the story didn't really worry me.

The city looks a bit too posh to be a hideout/bunker.

To me the Gungans seem to be the natives and the Naboo/Neimodian conflict is something that is happening around them.

So it's pretty much like how Native Americans saw the War of 1812.

There is the indigenous people, the outsiders and the former colonial power wanting to reclaim lost territory in a prior conflict.

It's the only way I can see to make sense of Naboo but I'm interested to see how this new idea plays out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Sorry for double posting but I have to say If it could be done but It would probably be perhaps extremely difficult.

The Prequel trilogy done in a 70's sci-fi movie style. Not only would it grant a lot of artistic licence in terms of design but it could borrow a lot from this era.

Droid Cameo's for instance from silent running and the Black hole and it was when I thought of the black hole I realised something.

Should battle droids look like this?

This is one scary droid and somehow I think it would be a perfect replacement for the battle droids. The destroyers are ok but they could be easily made to resemble this a little more and atleast they are intimidating

You can see him in action here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5pOiyD4h6E

Not totally saying that it should be this but at least it is intimidating and perhaps a good design to start or modify or even just copy it and put it in there I'd still be a lot happier with this than the current battledroids

also thinking with a mentality of how would people go about creating something in the 70's to achieve a warrior droid rather than all the special effects we have today... Not many moving parts but it's rigidity is not only a bonus in terms of ease of implementation but it is also a lot more intimidating that it hovers about and can rise over you and has spinning metal blade hands for close combat and perhaps mounted lasers.

It serves it's purpose and has less moving parts that could get broken at joints during battle

So in my book this design or similar is a plus on many counts

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Bingowings said:

They are meant to be amphibian.

The city looks a bit too posh to be a hideout/bunker.

They don't come off looking amphibian in any way. They look like they would be extremely ill suited to living primarily underwater.......just as we are. We DO go underwater.....but we don't base our civilization there because of our physical limitations.

And who are we to judge the amount of design an alien culture wants to put into a secondary habitat. And if it was where they were doing their cloning they might just put a little more effort into it seeing as they'd be spending large amounts of time there. Naboo isn't Tatooine.....not everything has to be simple and utilitarian.

EDIT: On a side note, go and look at their instruments of war. Things like this should be simple and functional....but their catapults are very decorative and ornate for what they are. Gungans are clearly artistic and take pride in their architecture and the design of everyday objects.  

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Instantly being intercepted by a guard is also a sign of how secret the whole thing is.

Preferred Saga:
PT: Hal9000
4/5: Adywan
6: NSP
7/8: Hal9000

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Star Wars aliens tend not to look like proper creatures.

They tend to have a chimera aspect to them (Greedo is a rare exeption).

Ackbar has a cuttlefish face and he is implied to be amphibian too when there is no exterior evidence of him doing anything in the sea (his space ship isn't full of water for example).

There isn't anything in his native environment that points to why Chewie looks the way he does.

He is a Sasquatch in a spaceship and that's as far it goes. 

Jar-Jar should have been Ackbar (he looks better and it would have served the narrative arc) but everything you can physically say about either amphibians could be said of both.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Bingowings said:

Star Wars aliens tend not to look like proper creatures.

Ackbar has a cuttlefish face and he is implied to be amphibian too when there is no exterior evidence of him doing anything in the sea (his space ship isn't full of water for example).

There isn't anything in his native environment that points to why Chewie looks the way he does.

I disagree. Ackbar has webbed hands, and sounds like he breathes through gills or some other organ that draws his breath through a certain amount of moisture. So there are both visual and auditory clues there. As for Chewie, he is similar to a bear in his type of skin covering....this might suggest that there is a cold season on his planet, or that the nights (or days) get cold.

Gungans have no webbed appendages. Their stumpy, elephant-like feet would push very little water while treading. Their ears serve no purpose while swimming (that we're shown) and would probably only get in the way what with their floppiness. They aren't shown as having gills, etc, etc........there's just nothing about them that suggests anything about an aquatic origin. They were a VERY bad design for a creature who's primary habitat is underwater.

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Ronster said:

Although I have read the plan for PT:R it does not essentially say what it is setting out to acheive.

I think if some kind of mission statement was offered up It would help people put better ideas in the melting pot when we know what it's goal is.

You only need to look at one page on this star wars fan edits forum to see how so many different people interpret star wars.

These are the immediate things that spring to mind when I hear PT:R and wonder what it actually is.

1. Is it going to be made to feel like it was made before episode IV or atleast the same in terms of looks or even older and more retro 70's

2. We know that it is going to set about fixing plot points and keeping continuity with the plot but in terms of extra characters are we going to have main character that "breaks the rules" basically a replacement Han Solo character because the PT really needed a character that was not straight laced and goody two shoes... That was not afraid to scream at people to get the job at hand done... Love able rogue type

3. Is using footage from "other" sources an option especially for the likes of the characters in the Trilogy or in others or anything else that might work

4. John Williams score is great but in terms of music will there be any musical numbers this again is something that was absent from the PT people can dig around or even compose for stuff that fits

The reason I ask is because It is such a huge undertaking I am sure people would want to at least if they put ideas over be on the right track

I'd love to know if there are any plans to retro-fy the PT. The revisited OT definitely brings the overall aesthetic forward a bit, so it'd be good to see the PT receive the opposite treatment!

I'm really hoping for some 'cross-polination' between PT:R and ROTJ:R to bring the saga to a conclusive opening and close.

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Chewie is Bigfoot and Han is Elvis.  The movie came out in the 1970's and it shows the pop culture of it's time.  

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Burdokva,

I REALLY like that idea about Anakin and Owen...  It ties in well with the feelings Owen has towards the memory of Obi-wan and Anakin, and what Obi-wan says...  Man that's so much better, ha  Great idea!  (but yeah - that would take a LOT of re-shooting...)

 

re: Clones

I'm not a huge fan of clones in general.  To me, it's a weak idea that all stems from Luke's one line mention of "The Clone Wars" that could have meant almost anything.  Heck, they could have called it that because it mirrored wars that happened 1000 years before it!  This idea of Ady's is better though than the original plotline to tie all 3 together... 

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Ronster said:

Sorry for double posting but I have to say If it could be done but It would probably be perhaps extremely difficult.

The Prequel trilogy done in a 70's sci-fi movie style. Not only would it grant a lot of artistic licence in terms of design but it could borrow a lot from this era.

Again with the sci-fi...

 

Star Wars is not sci-fi. It's fantasy, just set in space. And the Original Trilogy has been compared to have, in many ways, the style of a western.

For the PT to have a 70's sci-fi feel, or for the pursuit of/negotation for technological advancement to be a forefront part of Ep. 1's plot I think entirely misses mark on trying to make the PT feel like the OT does.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.