ben_danger said:
If the battle was not in a sandy region of tatooine, but more of a rocky chasm, the sarlac could be in some sort of deep cave, and climb out for a big reveal.
Runs the danger of becoming a rehash of ESB's cave, though.
Jabba hopes his victims will beg.
So why not have the Sarlacc live in Beggar's Canyon.
That way it could be long as well as deep.
It could be like a Shoggoth that runs the depths and widths of a walled in section of the canyon.
These sarlaac ideas are interesting, but which CG wizard here is going to make this happen? Not trying to be a naysayer, but I'm really curious on the hows.
Digital compositing means something that big could be created with a mixture of stop motion, animatronic and CGI so you could break it up.
Have some people make puppet tendrils and animate them from different angles.
Have some people make stop motion elements.
Have someone join them to the existing filmed footage with CGI.
The combination could be one of the most bizarre science fiction creatures ever depicted.
Or utterly awful...I have no idea.
mrbenja0618 said:
These sarlaac ideas are interesting, but which CG wizard here is going to make this happen? Not trying to be a naysayer, but I'm really curious on the hows.
Obviously Adywan will construct a fully articulated go-motion bigature, then add CGI mucus in post.
If you have the Sarlaac as a huge beast in a rocky canyon then you would have to get rid of the Rancor sequence otherwise you are just repeating the same type of beast sequence within a very short time
adywan said:
If you have the Sarlaac as a huge beast in a rocky canyon then you would have to get rid of the Rancor sequence otherwise you are just repeating the same type of beast sequence within a very short time
This.
The Rancor is a cellar dweller, a giant troll.
This is a totally different proposition to a a Lovecraft style multi-mouth/vagina/tendrill thing.
For one thing the Rancor is upright it moves mostly on a horizontal plane the Sarlacc is anchored to the horizontal plane so has to move vertically.
The other is the scale of the thing.
The Rancor is a mini boss, the Sarlacc is an end of level boss with all the trimmings (including sprouts).
The Rancor is a direct threat only to Luke. The Sarlacc is a direct threat for half the team and death within it would sentence the remaining party to a life of slavery.
The dune sea with pirate sailing ships in the sand.
So the Sarlacc should be a Kraken of the sand, a leviathan of the desert.
Its not necessarily the similarity between the 2 creatures....its just too much monster for one film, let alone to all be jammed into the first 3rd of it.....
The Rancor is a monster Luke must battle, part of the character's voyage or story arc....the Sarlaac is a mysterious hole in the ground, representing a fate worse than death....it is symbolic more that an overt threat that must be fought against physically........we shouldn't see it overmuch, apart from its mouth....its the Boba Fett Effect....explain too much of it and it loses its cool.
Sarlacc as an immobile sand vag is boring as hell, as threatening as a slightly annoyed tree and makes less sense than the space slug in terms of meeting it's nutritional requirements (I know it's fantasy but should feel like it makes sense).
Jabba is making a party of this.
This kid has wrecked his living room entertainment system so he is really going to town.
This isn't a drive into the desert to push a bunch of gits down a well.
It's meant to be exciting to watch.
Limbs pulled off, blood going everywhere (only it goes wrong).
While I agree with parts of what you're saying here...I disagree that it wasn't terrifying.....the thought of being digested over that long a period of time (which humorously seems to ignore the simple fact of actual human lifespan), after being thrown into a hole with teeth is a very discomforting thought. I don't know exactly how exciting this is meant to be though......like hangings and beheadings.....these were public events that were over in a flash with no long drawn out show.....this isn't torture, they're not trying to get a confession...its death....just a longer death, and it happens in this thing's belly.
Extraordinary ideas have to backed up with extraordinary imagery or hidden in shadow (so the mind can really work on it).
You can't hide things in shadows in the middle of a double sun lit desert.
You could argue that the digestive part of the Sarlacc is hidden under the sand and open to the imagination but we get a very clear view of the toothy front part which isn't very scary.
I dare say you could walk away from it with ease.
The characters have position themselves to be endangered by it.
It's like Bela Lugosi and the rubber octopus.
If Jabba just wanted to kill them he would have stayed at home or just sent the people there.
He is doing this for kicks.
He's a sick bloated space sultan.
The Sarlacc is not the point of the Sarlacc Battle. The Sarlacc is not there to be terrifying. It's there to provide a situation conducive to the escape. Jabba and his henchmen, pathetic though they may be, are the adversary.
Just to comment on Bingowings sequence for RotJ (I'm still thinking about RotS). I'd suggest a serious re-arrange of the ending to make it both a lot less complicated (less going on simultaneously and make far more sense and also more tense... Starting from;
Luke allows himself to get caught... Meets with Vader.
We then cut to Hans assault getting to the shield and then;
See Han getting caught. We also see the Ewoks fighting the Empire.
The fleet enters Endor space "it's a trap" - Lando talks about having to give "Han more time" which at this point seems stupid as we know Han has been caught....
Luke goes before the Emporer and Vader. The Emporer tells Luke his friends will die etc. Reveals the Death Star is fully operational and watch the destruction of rebel command ships. We cut to see the Ewoks getting killed right. left and centre....
Luke feels the Rebels getting their ass kicked; finally cracks, show down with Vader... Fight. This entire sequence is cut together it is really the most important part of the film; the completion of father and sons journey. The entire battle is going the Empire's way....
Until the Emperor is killed by Vader, Luke carries Vader out, their scene together "take off my mask", last wee see them until Endor Surface. Then, and only then, the battle turns!
Now down on Endor; Ewoks get on top; Han escapes, they blow up the shield generator....We then cut to all of the Space battle;
The rebels destroy the Executor; I'd suggest one of the Mon Calamari ships sacrificing herself and ramming it, and then it crashes into the Death Star II. The Imperials are now in crisis; who is in charge? Possibly show arguments between Captains? Anyway Death Star blows up; rest of the Imperial fleet retreats... Rebels win etc etc
"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore
"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
Bingowings said:
It's a special edition.
Thankfully nice George Lucas (Harmy) in his kindness has preserved Seb Shaw in his original context.
He could start out being the old guy Luke (and we) just met but spiritually regenerate so to speak into the young man Padme knew.
Either way a full body replace would be much more respectful to Seb Shaw's memory than decapitating the poor guy and glueing Hayden's head on complete with creepy sex looks.
The real problem with the current Hayden in the SE is it makes no sense.
How does Vader learn to do this, why does he look young when the others look old?
It makes no narrative sense so it becomes a sticking plaster vainly attempting to stitch the two trilogies together.
I just wanted an explanation for Force ghosts that made some sense without being in your face.
Lucas was right not to make every Jedi vanish and appear as a ghost because Vader is clearly confused while playing footsy with Ben's bath robe.
I don't buy the Qui-Gon thing.
It comes out of nowhere very fast.
So it makes sense that Anakin is subconsciously doing that which he declared he hoped to do one day back in the PT.
He loves Padme and he loves his son (he doesn't know about Leia).
He keeps her alive after death and keeps Yoda and Ben alive to train and protect his child.
Consciously his Vader persona is so deep in the Dark side he can't see what his subconscious good self is doing.
It makes more sense to me that Anakin is mentally ill rather than out and out evil.
You can imagine a redemption for a man who murders children due to mental health issues rather than one who does it to further his career or political ambitions.
Good explanation.
I was curious simply because most people 'round these parts get sick with the thought that Hayden might be in ROTJ.
I personally don't think Anakin should have a ghost at all; though if he did, I don't think Seb Shaw would make much sense - well, I'm not going to get into that, I ranted enough on the ROTJ collaborative page.
Anyway, interesting interpretation, and not one that I would mind seeing in an edit.
timdiggerm said:
The Sarlacc is not the point of the Sarlacc Battle. The Sarlacc is not there to be terrifying. It's there to provide a situation conducive to the escape. Jabba and his henchmen, pathetic though they may be, are the adversary.
Jabba and the gang are important, that's why they have a nifty pirate ship and nifty skiffs but if the Sarlacc is so unimportant take it away and replace it with a bottomless pit (which is another way to go as it adds vertigo to the creature horror of the tentacles shooting up from the depths).
It's clearly meant to look horrific so that the victims will show terror which will entertain Jabba and his court.
In all versions it looks either dull or silly.
At the risk of evoking Joseph Campbell the Sarlacc is a Hellmouth replete with medieval animal faced demons armed with forks and axes.
Make it look horrific and the scene will work better, a clear terrifying peril that has to be avoided.
jonathan7 said:
Just to comment on Bingowings sequence for RotJ (I'm still thinking about RotS). I'd suggest a serious re-arrange of the ending to make it both a lot less complicated (less going on simultaneously and make far more sense and also more tense...The entire battle is going the Empire's way....
...Until the Emperor is killed by Vader, Luke carries Vader out, their scene together "take off my mask", last wee see them until Endor Surface. Then, and only then, the battle turns!
Now down on Endor; Ewoks get on top; Han escapes, they blow up the shield generator....We then cut to all of the Space battle;
The rebels destroy the Executor; I'd suggest one of the Mon Calamari ships sacrificing herself and ramming it, and then it crashes into the Death Star II. The Imperials are now in crisis; who is in charge? Possibly show arguments between Captains? Anyway Death Star blows up; rest of the Imperial fleet retreats... Rebels win etc etc
The problem with that is with the Emperor gone the end result is a foregone conclusion.
All narrative tension is dissipated.
What works about the triple conflict of ROTJ and fails in the same situation of TPM is the tension swirls, not just round and round but up and up too.
The sequences in TPM are too episodic but there is an almost musical structure to the layering of those ROTJ sequences.
It's the sort of thing you can do at the end of a trilogy and get away with.
At the beginning it's way too much.
But for the begining of a SAGA, I think Episode I's structure for the final battle is good.
If anything TPMs final battle is a quartet, it tries to upstage the OT finale by a factor of one.
The Gungans vs Droids
The Queen Vs The Viceroy
The Fighters Vs The Ship
The Sith Vs The Jedi.
It's just too much of a buffet to be satisfying.
None of them are built on character familiarity or verbal sparring.
On paper having Maul mostly mute might have sounded fine but it did mean that his contribution had none of the impact of Vader and his quick demise meant his character didn't get to grow an inexplicable fanbase like Boba.
Have one or two of those elements end before starting the other and you'd have a much more satisfying balanced meal.
My contribution to the ROTS Vader debate :
Bingowings said:
My contribution to the ROTS Vader debate :
Kinda cool. But why does he have the Last Airbender arrow?
Sadly it's too late to ask Ralph that question.
Bingowings said:
Sadly it's too late to ask Ralph that question.
Even more interesting.
I guess if the troopers lose the crests on the helmets over time, Vader's arrow could shrink to become that little triangle shape.
Loads to chose from here.
Yeah, I remember saying on another thread that it was a shame that the Vader costume in ROTS was a more refined costume than in the OT, it would have been better to see his costume evolve (as it did in the OT also), the way that the clones costume evolves to the Stormtrooper...or Vaders costume hurriedly constructed using available life support & bionics...perhaps more like Darth Malgus
J