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The Trekkies Are Unbelievable

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On TrekBBS, they're complaining that the new effects team didn't change enough in the new version of Balance of Terror. CBS makes a great big deal about how they're staying absolutely faithful to the original show, just making new visual effects since the old effects would look awful in HD ... and now the fans are revolting. The ship isn't dynamic enough, there are no NextGen-style warp stars, they didn't "fix" the "error" with the phasers, not enough new shots of the model, blah blah blah. Why don't we give them our rontos and our giggling droids and our honking dewbacks and Vader's shuttle and Hayden so we can have Star Wars and they can have the CGI-fest they seem to want?

Hopefully, this is just a vocal minority of fans. But maybe it's not. Maybe only those of us who have seen the face of Hayden know the danger of CGI editing. The path to the Dark Side.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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It doesn't really matter to me, because a high quality release of the originals is avaiable to buy. Unlike the SEs.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Mike O
It doesn't really matter to me, because a high quality release of the originals is avaiable to buy. Unlike the SEs.


I agree. The availability of the original, unaltered ones on dvd makes this a moot point. HOWEVER, I will say that I'm eager to see these new versions, as I find myself less and less able to enjoy the originals due to how dated they look. IF, and ONLY IF they don't have like, the original Klingons dancing around in tutus or something, ala LFL with their yearly "This is the way George REALLY wanted them" release, I'll be able to deal with it.

Nemo me impune lacessit

http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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Yeah, having the complete original series on DVD makes all the difference. In fact I always thought it would be cool if they updated the TOS special effects, and I am excited to see they sre doing it, it will be interesting. I really wouldn't mind Hayden's head being pasted on Shaw's body if they original existed in good quality somewhere. I have never even seen the 04 versions of Star Wars so they don't bother me. But I hate how the old ones have been so neglected.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I watched the first episode last night and my reaction is MEH!!!

I'm not thrilled nor am I outraged. They were very reverent with the FX...basically keeping the shots exactly the same, I believe. But for the most part, I don't really see the point. Frankly, I don't really care period. The fact that I have the whole series on DVD already is probably why I can take this or leave it.

I think it's just a marketing ploy for the new movie as well as selling the series on HD DVD or something.
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Yeah, I don't see the point either. They should just leave things well enough alone and maybe do a few episodes alternatively with new effects as a bonus feature just to look cool.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Im not a massive fan of Trek, but I really enjoy The Original Series and part of the charm for me is the old effects and the sets as well as the stories being interesting, so I am not interested in seeing them updating the effects and the sets, I have only the first season of this on DVD, so I will have to now get the other seasons, so I can watch vintage Trek and not these new versions which I dont have an interest in...
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Wow, I just checked out the Star Wars boards and those people are upset that the effects weren't upgraded ENOUGH!

I agree that it's nice that we can get the original series in their original form on DVD, but what's strange is how they're saying that they needed to redo the effects so they could bring the series to Hi-Def... I'm pretty sure the old effects were done in 35mm as well. I hope they preserved THOSE reels.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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What's the point of putting a TV show from the '60s in hi-def? Is that even possible? And why would you even want it? It just doesn't make any sense to me. The two seem incongruous. What's next? THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW IN HI-DEF EXTREME EDITION!!!!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
What's the point of putting a TV show from the '60s in hi-def? Is that even possible? And why would you even want it? It just doesn't make any sense to me. The two seem incongruous. What's next? THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW IN HI-DEF EXTREME EDITION!!!!


Considering that most of those shows would have been shot on 16mm, which it appears is the case with ST, there indeed is quite a reason to make HD transfers of it.

As for the original point of this thread: you know, i can kind of understand the complaining. The point of the new FX, etc was to bring the show into the new millennium, to make it compete with modern shows--and it really requires quite a lot of changes to do that, more than is being done to the new revisions IMO, and i think a lot of the suggestions are quite valid. But this brings me to a new point: the original show can't possibly be made "modern." No matter how much CG, no matter how many changes--it still has cardboard sets, incredibly cheesy acting, bee-hive hairdoos, tons of 1960's culture artifacts and a general vintage ambiance. At a certain point you have to accept that the series was made in the 60's and the only way to make it look like it was shot today is to actually re-make it. Its a lost cause. The original Star Trek was never "timeless"--its an incredibly dated show, as much as Lost In Space or Time Tunnel. Just let it be what it is.

On the other hand its great to get the original series in HD in its original unaltered form.
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IMHO like GL The Trek People Know there fans WILL Buy Every single Verson of the shows they make. I have seen that all the shows are out on DVD already and now they are putting out box sets of the *same shows* just in groups?! like the *Borg Box* with the Borg Eps and so on.

and unlike other programs out the Trek Shows are Very High Priced! IMO. I think all Trek Fans are Very Rich. and now that studio doing the TOS Trek show in HD CGI plan the do the same to ALL the rest of the Shows like: NG,Ds9,Voy and Ent. all with *New* Fx and CGI in HD.

Instead of making a New Show they plan to RE-Sell the Old Ones. ?
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I hope they add a new CG dance number called "Sulu Rocks!"
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: JangoxFett
IMHO like GL The Trek People Know there fans WILL Buy Every single Verson of the shows they make. I have seen that all the shows are out on DVD already and now they are putting out box sets of the *same shows* just in groups?! like the *Borg Box* with the Borg Eps and so on.

and unlike other programs out the Trek Shows are Very High Priced! IMO. I think all Trek Fans are Very Rich. and now that studio doing the TOS Trek show in HD CGI plan the do the same to ALL the rest of the Shows like: NG,Ds9,Voy and Ent. all with *New* Fx and CGI in HD.

Instead of making a New Show they plan to RE-Sell the Old Ones. ?


Trek is not the only cash-cow in Hollywood. The entire Blu-Ray/HD-DVD thing is going to allow them to reissue the entire DVD libraries again, and people will buy them.

Whether or not it's worth making a new series is another debate, but we're talking about roughly 420 episodes just on the spin-offs, 300 of which were crap. I wish they'd do a "best of" set for Voyager, 'cause God knows the series as a whole blew cheese and is not worth buying. The only series I'd consider buying the whole sets for are TOS and DS9. TNG I'd buy starting with the 3rd season.
Nemo me impune lacessit

http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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You visit Star Trek web sites?
“We like to think that we are very particular, because we’ve done about a hundred movies now, and we strive to make our output pristine. So to work with a guy like Lucas is fabulous because he’s got his head in the same place, pristine.”
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What day, time and station are these Star Trek SEs showing? I'd like to it them out.

War does not make one great.

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I think it depends on what station in your area has the rights to them.

By me, here in NE Ohio, its WBNX 55 and they played Balance of Terror at midnight (Saturday night/Sunday morning) and 2PM on Sunday. I had forgotten about recording them for the midnight showing, but I was able to catch the afternoon one.

I thought the video looked beautiful and the changed effects looked good. I've read some things myself online that they tried too hard to stay faithful to the show (to the point of overlighting the digital ship models), but I didn't notice it myself.
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To address a few comments ...

Star Trek was shot on 35 mm film with the intention of being displayed on NTSC technology. Making an HD version is easy; you just run the film through your digital scanner and click the HD radio button instead of the 480i radio button. The problem you run into is with the optical shots; they've got all kinds of dupe grain and matte lines on them. This was visible, but not too troubling, on NTSC video. But in HD, they make the shots practically unwatchable.

Why remaster the show for HD? There's a crazy big market for Star Trek right now. There's at least three blocks dedicated to Star Trek on my cable package; Star Trek Uncut and Star Trek 2.0 on cable, and Star Trek "remastered" in syndication. Star Trek packages will become more valuable over the next couple of years as the hype machine for Star Trek XI gets into gear. And then there's Shatner; William Shatner is a popular actor right now due to Boston Legal and his tongue-in-cheek public persona.

So, having an HD-ready version of Star Trek for syndication (and later optical disc release) is a no-brainer. But what do you do about the visual effects? I'm sure the original elements are long since lost; they cannot be recomposited like Lucas did for Star Wars. So they have to be recreated. And in the process of recreation, a few creative liberties can be taken to reduce the number of stock shots. This is very much in the spirit of restoration that Mike Verta wrote about on Star Wars Legacy, and the complete opposite of Lucas-style revisionism. And that's why I love it and why you should love it, too.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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What is the difference between complaining about alterations in Star Trek or alterations in Star Wars? Trek fans will go through a period where they love changes but then they will be like most people here and want the changes gone.
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Does anybody out here like that Star Trek New Voyages internet series?
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Originally posted by: Raul2106
What is the difference between complaining about alterations in Star Trek or alterations in Star Wars? Trek fans will go through a period where they love changes but then they will be like most people here and want the changes gone.


The difference is that we don't have a high-quality choice in the case of SW. But according to you, we will next year.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Raul2106
Does anybody out here like that Star Trek New Voyages internet series?


I tried to watch an episode, I really did. But about half way through I started pounding my head into my keyboard, so I turned it off and deleted the episode, then went out and bought a new keyboard. I think it would have been cool if they would have made a whole new spin off series and developed their own charecters. I know they said that they believe Kirk, Spock and Bones to be charecters like Hammlet that can be portrayed in many different ways, but honestly, Shatner is Kirk! And they don't seem like they are trying to portray the charecters in their own way, they seem like they are trying to act just like the original actors. I burst out laughing when I first heard the new Chekov speak. I guess it is only for the extreme ST fans.

And to try to un-derail the thread, I saw one of the new Star Trek SEs, I really don't think the whole thing is as sinister as the Star Wars SEs. It looks like all they are trying to do is update the special effects so they can HD them. It looks pretty bad quality because they are doing it so low budget (guess it is becoming a trend to do half hearted work when updating special effects.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I for one appreciate the restoration efforts they have undertaken.

The picture on the new cgi versions is better than it has ever looked and the effects very much match the original work without all the dirt from the optical comps/ effects that back then you had a picture that was 3rd generation on the opticals versus the shot footage of the actors which was first generation.

Unlike lucas paramount never saved the opticals so they could not re-composit them with digital computer technology they way they did the star wars special editions.

The new computer effects are similar in nature to the director's edition shots done for robert wise's star trek I, that they look like something that could've been achieved the time the shows were made.

I am very surprised they did not update the effects because Enterprise happened before kirk and co and looks more futureristic.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: Scruffy
On TrekBBS, they're complaining that the new effects team didn't change enough in the new version of Balance of Terror. CBS makes a great big deal about how they're staying absolutely faithful to the original show, just making new visual effects since the old effects would look awful in HD ... and now the fans are revolting. The ship isn't dynamic enough, there are no NextGen-style warp stars, they didn't "fix" the "error" with the phasers, not enough new shots of the model, blah blah blah. Why don't we give them our rontos and our giggling droids and our honking dewbacks and Vader's shuttle and Hayden so we can have Star Wars and they can have the CGI-fest they seem to want?

Hopefully, this is just a vocal minority of fans. But maybe it's not. Maybe only those of us who have seen the face of Hayden know the danger of CGI editing. The path to the Dark Side.


I understand what you mean. I saw Balance Of Terror, and to me, none of the new visual effects really stood out. Heck, I didn't even realize they changed the theme song until I read about it on the official website. Personally, I think it's just change for the sake of change. The original was fine the way it was.

And New Voyages is terrible. I may like Star Trek, but it doesn't blind me to the point where I can accept something as silly as that.
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They aren't stopping with the effects shots. The analog chronometer on the bridge's navigation console was replaced with a digital one in tonight's episode. If the originals are made available on whatever HD format wins out, I can live with these pointless alternate versions. But if they don't, saying "they're on DVD" will be as weak an argument in a decade or two as Lucas' old argument that fans who prefer the OT have the VHS tapes to watch.
Interestingly enough, the CGI for the new cut of the first Trek movie was not done in HD. That will come back to bite Paramount in a couple years!
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