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The Things We Hate And Love Thread . — Page 288

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Originally posted by: boon23
1. the forum on our website is now starting to pulsate with life BECAUSE we are not allowed to use OT forums to talk about anyhting regarding us anymore. Instead of tlaking around and not linking, we do our talking where we are not limited. You would do the same, I guess.
I still don't think you understand why Jay implemented this policy here. This site is the hub of the preservation and fan edit community. You tried using these forums to take part of that community away and make it your own. All this was before you bothered to contact Jay. In fact, I don't think you ever did. You knew that Jay had already been working on fanedits.com months ago. When I found out about your new web site from Dayv, he told me that you, Boon, had contacted Jay about your new site. But in reality, you never did. He had to contact you about it after I and a couple other people brought it to his attention. So let the record show that it was you guys who started all this secrecy crap.

It didn't look like this a few days ago. What you see is the development after being forbidden companionship by Jay himself. And we don't rest obviously, that is for true. We are creating something, people might like to be part of, which is their decision.[Our forum started very small and in the beginning no one posted there anything, not me. You may want to take a look at the first post and how much time passed until the next one was made and so on. Call it evidence if you must, but I am not a liar. Our webmaster is a huge Star Trek fan, he created our forum and that explains why there is room for sci-fi, ST and SW talk.
The thing is: now we want to be a home for those who want, for whatever reason. Call it competition, I call it neighbourhood.

Having posts and having different forums to post in are two completely different things. Are you saying that you had nothing to do with what forums were created on your own site? The fact is, when we found out that your site was up and running, most of those forums were already there, and that was back when there was probably a total of 20 posts and about 4 or 5 forum members. It was also before Jay ever got involved. So when you tried labeling it as a "companion site" or "sister site", your forums hardly looked the part.

2. Let's not talk about money again, please. And please let us not compare this LITTLE forum with a website like myspleen, where tetabytes of traffic are used to drive the torrents through. I know about prices in Germany and the USA (and USA are cheaper). Hundreds of dollars each month? What for???? If that was true I would start looking for a new provider. It is not fair, zion, to say, that I don't care about money, because I don't host the websites. Truth is: I care for my friends, who offer all of us a chance to do what we like to do, make a website about fanedits and talk about it. I don't know how you treat places your friends pay for.

Why don't you look up how much a Windows/ColdFusion-based dedicated server costs per month. And while your at it, why don't you look up how torrent sites work. Those terrabytes of traffic don't even go through the server. That's why they call it peer-to-peer. Sure, your showcase site and PHP-based forums can be hosted on a $10 per month bargain-basement shared hosting plan. But you simply cannot do that with a site that gets as much traffic as this place. If you think the only people who use this site are the ones logged in, think again.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Originally posted by: Zion
I think this whole thing comes down to a misunderstanding. Boon claims that he and his "associates" took Jay's offer to host your site as some sort of issue of control. But at the same time, your new forum makes you look like you're trying to compete with OT.com.

To be honest, when Dayv first showed me the site a day or two after it went up, I didn't know what to think. Dayv talked about it as a "sister site" to OT.com, but if that was your intention, why start a large forum with topics about preservations, Star Wars, Star Trek, and Sci-Fi? You can't expect us to take that in any other way than you're trying to compete with OT.com.

Boon, you assume Jay is talking about money as if his only goal is to profit off of this site and fanedits.com. Like Jay's some sort of Phillip Wise TFN mogul who doesn't even know anything about the fanbase and is only in it for the money. This is far from the truth and you know it. Jay throws the money issue into the equation as an experienced webmaster should. By throwing up a web site and a forum on someone else's server, I hardly expect you to know anything about what it costs to run a site with as much traffic as OT.com. But Jay does, and he knows that this site costs hundreds per month just for hosting costs alone. As one of the admins of this new web site, you should understand things like this. It's not about charging people for admission, it's about being able to pay for the privelege of having your web site online every month. Just ask Xavier over on MySpleen how important money is.

This whole situation is rubbing everyone the wrong way. It's unfortunate that things like this happen, but it is inevitable as the evolution of our community comes to pass.


My guess is that this post will be completely overlooked by certain parties because it contains too much common sense and rational thought.

Boon: as far as web hosting costs go, find a reliable host that responds to e-mails within 5 minutes every time and knows what the hell they're doing (rare), then ask them how much it costs to host a SQL Server database approaching 200 megs.
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Zion:
this is the second time I regret having answered to anything you say. You want YOUR truth. Go for it. But I have the emails and the messages and the dates... you don't.

Jay:
I am sorry the website is that expensive for you and I am glad you have been able to keep it up. FE will never get as big as OT. It is not our intention. We want to be just another fanedits website now and try to be the best. When the time comes, we might have to decide to go different ways, right now, it is just nice and easy.

...one more thing. I cannot change for not having contacted you about my intentions about creating a website. The thought never crossed my mind, because it is a free and currently legal thing to do. From your point of view I understand you feel tricked because I asked the poeple here to take a look at what we have created. Damage done. But they would have looked anyway, if they are interested in fanedits and you know that. I haven't used your forum since to promote my website, have I? Now will you keep whining about this forever or what do you want?

Nothing about fanediting is easy.

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Originally posted by: boon23
Zion:
this is the second time I regret having answered to anything you say. You want YOUR truth. Go for it. But I have the emails and the messages and the dates... you don't.

What I regret is that after everything I've posted, this is all you can say. I've made several good points but you either can't or won't respond. With that kind of attitude, you leave the impression that you don't really care about what's happenning.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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I fear this fourm may have taken a turn for the worse.
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Ah, you want to go through it. Ok.

I still don't think you understand why Jay implemented this policy here. This site is the hub of the preservation and fan edit community. You tried using these forums to take part of that community away and make it your own. All this was before you bothered to contact Jay. In fact, I don't think you ever did. You knew that Jay had already been working on fanedits.com months ago. When I found out about your new web site from Dayv, he told me that you, Boon, had contacted Jay about your new site. But in reality, you never did. He had to contact you about it after I and a couple other people brought it to his attention. So let the record show that it was you guys who started all this secrecy crap.

Accusations and lies. You really want me to comment anymore on this? Sorry, I can't. You just want people to think I am a bad person, who had nothing but mean plans on his mind. Go ahead, but I cannot support your quest. As I said: I have the evidence. You have nothing.

Having posts and having different forums to post in are two completely different things. Are you saying that you had nothing to do with what forums were created on your own site? The fact is, when we found out that your site was up and running, most of those forums were already there, and that was back when there was probably a total of 20 posts and about 4 or 5 forum members. It was also before Jay ever got involved. So when you tried labeling it as a "companion site" or "sister site", your forums hardly looked the part.


First: yes, I had nothing to do with the way the website and its forum was built in the first place, but I liked it. Ask our webmaster Paulie79 if you want the truth. He is a nice guy.
From there on: again lies. Who do you want to impress so badly? I have the evidence and you have nothing.

Why don't you look up how much a Windows/ColdFusion-based dedicated server costs per month. And while your at it, why don't you look up how torrent sites work. Those terrabytes of traffic don't even go through the server. That's why they call it peer-to-peer. Sure, your showcase site and PHP-based forums can be hosted on a $10 per month bargain-basement shared hosting plan. But you simply cannot do that with a site that gets as much traffic as this place. If you think the only people who use this site are the ones logged in, think again.


I wasn't aware what kind of website this here is. I am an absolute amateur in these things, but I know the prices for our website and I am pretty sure we could handle the entire OT forum with it. If not, well, whatever, I am no webmaster, but let me take a guess: the entire forum is no more than 10 gigabytes,is itAnd yes, I thought the only people using this site are the ones logged in. Why should I care about the others, who obviously have not much to do with OT?

Please stop this thinking for me, Zion. You don't know anything about me and if you would, you might find out "I am not so bad" (ups, that is a quote from Matrix Revolutions... and it was Smith who said it).

Nothing about fanediting is easy.

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I hate that Lucas might be leaning back in chair and laughing his head off about this.


My opinion: both side were right about some things both sides and were wrong.

Jay should have made Dayv a mod long time ago he deserved it. But, everytime the discussion came up about making Dayv a mod, Jay responded in so many works that he didn't want mods. Then, all of sudden, in a section of the forum some of the member rarly looked at, he appointed a mod. Dayv never spoke of it openly but I could tell he felt betrayed. Jay never made major announcement of he just quietly did it. Jay should have told everyone about it and explained why Dayv and his group were never considered.

Dayv should have been more open about the creation of his site , I agree that he should not have done it behind closed doors via PMs. But, I think not allowing any links to the site, even deleting a link to a site a that had a link to site, and then deleting posts that talked about that link but didn't post a link themselves went too far. How many flames from trolls have we all had to endure and weren't deleted in the name of freedom of speech? I'm sure Dayv's site and can be found using Yahoo. Will links to Yahoo be deleted as well? What about links to the offical Star Wars forums? they are competing forums will they be deleted. In the name of forum freedom I ask that links be allowed to competing sites.

I will take Jay at his word that it costs him alot of money to run the site. I do not believe he would have tried to take control of Dayv's site had he been allowed to host it. But, I don't see why they can't coexist and work together without having to join under the same site.

Dayv and Jay, I respect both of you. I do not mean to offend either one of you with what I am saying in this post. I think the two of you need to calm down, comprise, apologize to each other and forgive each other. Both sites and the OOT DVD campaign are better off if the two of you are working together than fighting each other. I ask both of you to put your egos aside and try one last time to make peace with each other.
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I kind of feel threatend by mods and they kind of scare me.
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Since I was sort of away for the past 2 days, I started to read what was all about but kinda lost interest when I saw so many edited posts by moderators, and stoped reading when I go to this really upsetting comment from someone I'd never expect such words, regardless of the situation:

Originally posted by: Jay
Shut the fuck up.


Although I could be wrong and it could be necessary, if the conversation has moved to personal offenses, bu I belive it was merely due to this websites fight to which I am serioualy NOT interested.

Unless forbidden, to which I cannot argue since this is not my website and I'm not paying for the bandwitch, I'm gonna keep talking here about politics, videogames, films, music, SOMETIMES Star Wars, 'till someone asks me to shut the fuck up, in which I promptly will, not returning. Ever.

I'll just pretend these last posts on this thread dosen't exist.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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"what was that?"
"just a deja-vu"
"what is it?"
"a deja-vu is a glitch in the matrix, it happens when they change something."

Just reminded me... those two posts by you warbler and you sean looked kind of familiar, but only kind of.

Nothing about fanediting is easy.

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I just wanted people on both forums to read what I had to say. I do not believe their rule against posting the same exaxt thing on both forums. Some members of Dayv's site may not read what is here and some members of OT.com may not what is on Dayv's site.
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THE EMAILS AND PMs THAT I SENT TO PEOPLE HAD ONE SPECIFIC THING IN THEM. I ALWAYS STATED IN THEM THAT "I'M NOT TRYING TO PULL ANYBODY AWAY FROM THIS SITE AS IT HAS BEEN A COMMUNITY/FAMILY FOR A LONG TIME. I JUST WANT TO SHOW PEOPLE ANOTHER OPTION." WHAT REALLY DID IT FOR ME WAS HAVING MY POSTS EITHER COMLETELY ERASED, CENSORED, AND HAVE MY MYSPACE LINK REMOVED FROM MY SIGNATURE. HELL, MY MYSPACE PAGE HAD A LINK TO OT.COM TOO UNTIL THIS HAPPENED.

JAY, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE "PROMISE" OF BEING A MOD YOU AND I HAD A LEAST TWO PM CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IT WHERE YOU STATED THAT BOSSK, GUNDARK, RRS 1980, MOTTI, AND I WOULD INDEED BE MODERATORS AT SOME POINT ON HERE. I EVEN TOLD THOSE GUYS ABOUT THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAD. OF COURSE, MOTTI HAS LEFT OT FOR BLIZZARD. RRS 1980 HAS A GOVERNMENT JOB, SO IT'S EXTREMELY RARE WHEN HE POSTS. GUNDARK IS BUSY WITH WORK AND FAMILY, SO HE TOO RARELY POSTS ANYMORE. BOSSK HAS JUST RUN OUT OF THINGS TO SAY ON HERE AND ONLY REALLY FREQUENTS THE SIX DEGREES OF STAR WARS THREAD. I'M THE ONLY ONE LEFT. YES, I FELT A LITTLE BETRAYED WHEN GUYS WHO HADN'T BEEN HERE AS LONG AS I HAD WERE SUDDENLY MADE MODS. I THINK I DO A GOOD JOB OF WHATCHING OVER THINGS HERE. WHEN THERE'S A PROBLEM PEOPLE COME TO ME FOR THE SOLUTION.

I'M SORRY THAT THINGS HAVEN'T WORKED OUT AND THAT YOU FEEL BETRAYED. IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION. BOON ASKED ME IF I WANTED TO BE MODERATOR OVER THERE BECAUSE OF MY FAN EDIT EXPERIENCE, AND ASKED ME IF I WOULD DO REVIEWS ABOUT THE EDITS. I SAID YES. WE WANT THE FAN EDIT COMMUNITY TO GROW WHICH IS YOUR INTENTION AS WELL.

"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide

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You get a bunch of people together for long periods of time, and there's bound to be a conflict of interest (ie. a fight) sooner or later. That doesn't mean OT.com has been turned upside-down, or that the good times are gone forever. At least, I don't think so. Things happen. Hopefully, the hostilities might resolve themselves. If Dayv truly is gone, it's a regrettable loss, and I'm definitely going to miss him. I just don't know if we can do anything about any of this, so it's probably better just to see how things play out.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: sean wookie
I fear this fourm may have taken a turn for the worse.
No shit Sean!

I can see both sides of this argument and to a degree I sympathise with each, but this is getting silly. When I think of how great OT.com is (was?) and then I see the last 2 or 3 pages of this thread, I feel pretty sad. What happened to the spirit of this place that spawned the Spark of Hope threads and all the other fun times?

I would also like to second what Ricarleite said about leaving permanently if and when I am told to shut the fuck up.

War does not make one great.

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Yeah, but this conflict has only been public for less than 24 hours. You can't really say that everything's gone downhill after just that short amount of time!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Yeah, but this conflict has only been public for less than 24 hours. You can't really say that everything's gone downhill after just that short amount of time!


TAKE A LOOK AT THE GENERAL STAR WARS FORUM. IT'S A BLOODY MESS.

"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Yeah, but this conflict has only been public for less than 24 hours. You can't really say that everything's gone downhill after just that short amount of time! Yeah you're right, and I wrote my post before I had read this one by you:
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
You get a bunch of people together for long periods of time, and there's bound to be a conflict of interest (ie. a fight) sooner or later. That doesn't mean OT.com has been turned upside-down, or that the good times are gone forever. At least, I don't think so. Things happen. Hopefully, the hostilities might resolve themselves. If Dayv truly is gone, it's a regrettable loss, and I'm definitely going to miss him. I just don't know if we can do anything about any of this, so it's probably better just to see how things play out.
As usual, wise words from Gaffer.
Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
TAKE A LOOK AT THE GENERAL STAR WARS FORUM. IT'S A BLOODY MESS.
That is true, although lately there have been some fairly interesting threads and good conversations going on in there.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Yeah, but this conflict has only been public for less than 24 hours. You can't really say that everything's gone downhill after just that short amount of time!


TAKE A LOOK AT THE GENERAL STAR WARS FORUM. IT'S A BLOODY MESS.


True there's quite a bit of redundancy going on there, but, especially in the past few days, there have been some pretty well-thought out posts and threads. It might be covering the same territory that's been covered for nearly thirty years, but it's not like there's a whole bunch of new stuff to talk about, and it's certainly a step up from the fifteen identical threads of "the DVDs are non-anamorphic!" to keep up with. But I have felt like there are two different forums I visit here. The cast of characters are almost completely different in the General Star Wars section as there are in the Off Topic section.

And thank you for the kind words as always, YIYF. I do what I can.

EDIT: And apparently you also beat me to the defense of the General Star Wars section.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
I would also like to second what Ricarleite said about leaving permanently if and when I am told to shut the fuck up.


Think about how many times I've said that since starting this site (one time, including this instance). Think about how much leeway people have gotten here for all kinds of stupid behavior. Then try to think how pissed I'd probably have to be to say that to someone.

If I had to listen to the same garbage from you that I've heard boon yammering about here, there, and via PM for the last few days, you would be told to shut the fuck up. And promptly.

Somehow, I doubt that would be the case.
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Originally posted by: boon23
I still don't think you understand why Jay implemented this policy here. This site is the hub of the preservation and fan edit community. You tried using these forums to take part of that community away and make it your own. All this was before you bothered to contact Jay. In fact, I don't think you ever did. You knew that Jay had already been working on fanedits.com months ago. When I found out about your new web site from Dayv, he told me that you, Boon, had contacted Jay about your new site. But in reality, you never did. He had to contact you about it after I and a couple other people brought it to his attention. So let the record show that it was you guys who started all this secrecy crap. Accusations and lies. You really want me to comment anymore on this? Sorry, I can't. You just want people to think I am a bad person, who had nothing but mean plans on his mind. Go ahead, but I cannot support your quest. As I said: I have the evidence. You have nothing. Of course I want you to comment, this is one of the biggest reasons why we're in this position right now. I might be wrong in accusing you of trying to steal people away from this site, but you and I both know that Jay was the last person to find out about this. Especially when Dayv told me you contacted him and I found out that that wasn't true. Now I don't know if that was intentional or not, but that's what happened.

Having posts and having different forums to post in are two completely different things. Are you saying that you had nothing to do with what forums were created on your own site? The fact is, when we found out that your site was up and running, most of those forums were already there, and that was back when there was probably a total of 20 posts and about 4 or 5 forum members. It was also before Jay ever got involved. So when you tried labeling it as a "companion site" or "sister site", your forums hardly looked the part. First: yes, I had nothing to do with the way the website and its forum was built in the first place, but I liked it. Ask our webmaster Paulie79 if you want the truth. He is a nice guy.
From there on: again lies. Who do you want to impress so badly? I have the evidence and you have nothing.
You keep saying that, but you're not showing any evidence to contradict what I'm saying. I don't really want to fight with you, I'm just calling it the way I'm seeing it. And from what I saw, your site was set up with a slew of forums including ones about Star Wars and Sci-Fi the same day Dayv first revealed it to me.

I am no webmaster, but let me take a guess: the entire forum is no more than 10 gigabytes,is itAnd yes, I thought the only people using this site are the ones logged in. Why should I care about the others, who obviously have not much to do with OT?
The amount of disk space this site uses is irrelevant. Site traffic is based on bandwidth. Every single person who surfs these forums, regardless of whether they are a member who is logged in or just a guest, uses up the site's bandwidth. A site that gets over a million hits every month needs more than just a bargain-basement $10 a month host.

Please stop this thinking for me, Zion. You don't know anything about me and if you would, you might find out "I am not so bad" (ups, that is a quote from Matrix Revolutions... and it was Smith who said it).
As I said above, I don't want to fight with you. I just felt inclined to post my thoughts here, and let everyone else know what is really going on. I really wish people could understand where Jay and I are coming from on this. This shouldnt' be about leaving one site altogether and joining another because your post got edited. It shouldn't be about us vs. them because someone treated you badly one night. This is about the future of the fan editing community and the evolution of OriginalTrilogy.com.

Everyone is at fault here. Nobody is perfect. If Jay or I said something to you that you took personal offense to, I hope you can shrug it off and move on because we haven't exactly been calm the last few days - Jay especially.


Originally posted by: Warbler
]Then, all of sudden, in a section of the forum some of the member rarly looked at, he appointed a mod.
Let me just say that this is exactly why one of you guys wasn't chosen. Jay chose me because I frequented the preservation forum and several other people showed their support for me. The preservation forum was dying because of the troll DanielB, and people were beginning to leave the site altogether because of him. A mod who frequented that section of the boards needed to be appointed.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Originally posted by: Zion

Originally posted by: ricardo
]Then, all of sudden, in a section of the forum some of the member rarly looked at, he appointed a mod.
Let me just say that this is exactly why one of you guys wasn't chosen. Jay chose me because I frequented the preservation forum and several other people showed their support for me. The preservation forum was dying because of the troll DanielB, and people were beginning to leave the site altogether because of him. A mod who frequented that section of the boards needed to be appointed.


um, first that was posted by me not Ricardo. Second, all Jay had to do to solve the problen on the preservation section was ban DanielB. But is very reluctant to do that. Trolls had caused problems all over the place before that, but Jay refused to appoint Dayv and his group moderators cause he said he didn't want mods. Well if he didn't want mods why did all the sudden appoint one? I can understand appointing you a mod in the preservation section. But, it would seem that you're authority has gone beyond the preservation section. Jay should have told Dayy about it instead of doing it behind his back. Why did he not appoint Dayv a mod of the Off Topic Section? When it came time to appoint mods to other sections why were Davy and his group not considered? Davy supported Jay and this site like no one else. IMHO Jay acted ungrateful and disrespectful appointing mods in the way he did.
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He didn't do it behind anyone's back, there was a thread stickied to the top of the preservation forum. My mod privieleges were extended to the whole forum after AWK was banned the first time and came back under a couple different names. Before that I had no priveleges outside the preservation boards.

General SW Discussion is a bloody mess because there isn't a mod who frequents it. I also don't see the Mangler Bros. frequenting it either. Anyway, we have been discussing naming another mod for a little while, and this is one of the reasons why. It's great what you guys did in the past for the Off Topic forum, and it's probably one of the reason's why Jay felt it didn't need a dedicated mod.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Originally posted by: Jay
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
I would also like to second what Ricarleite said about leaving permanently if and when I am told to shut the fuck up.


Think about how many times I've said that since starting this site (one time, including this instance). Think about how much leeway people have gotten here for all kinds of stupid behavior. Then try to think how pissed I'd probably have to be to say that to someone.

If I had to listen to the same garbage from you that I've heard boon yammering about here, there, and via PM for the last few days, you would be told to shut the fuck up. And promptly.

Somehow, I doubt that would be the case.


As for myself, yes, it wouldn't be the case. But I feel this is being dealt in a way I didn't expect, from both sides.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: Zion
He didn't do it behind anyone's back, there was a thread stickied to the top of the preservation forum. . exactly, there should have been an anncouncement made in the main anncouncement section. Appointing the first ever OT.com mod is big news don't you think? Yet was put in a thread most members would not look at. The point is, the excuse Jay used to not appoint Dayv a mod was that he didn't want mods. When he appointed you a mod, that excuse became null and void.

Originally posted by: Zion

General SW Discussion is a bloody mess because there isn't a mod who frequents it. I also don't see the Mangler Bros. frequenting it either.


Seeing as Jay hasn't made them mods and has told them to stop acting like mods, I don't blame them. Why don't you and the other mods do you job and clean it up?

Originally posted by: Zion
It's great what you guys did in the past for the Off Topic forum, and it's probably one of the reason's why Jay felt it didn't need a dedicated mod.


So now you're telling me the reason Dayv wasn't appointed an offical mod was because of how well he did an unoffical mod? Does that really make sense?

You can not get around the point that for all the hard work Dayv put into this site, he should been made a mod, and the very lest was deserving of a good explanation as to why he wasn't considered.