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The Thing (1982) [spoRv] *BD-25 RELEASED* — Page 2

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UPDATE:

The Aluminum Falcon provided the HD-DVD video, so now I must only capture the PAL laserdisc, mesh it up with the DVD to obtain more chroma resolution, and I'll test AntcuFaalb's ColourLikeFBF avisynth script to match the LD/DVD chroma to HDDVD luma; I've watched briefly the "crime scenes", and the colors are almost the same, but video quality is... wow... exceptional, thinking that is a 1982 movie!!!

I'm excited, I can't wait to do start the preservation, but I should... hope to do it on Sunday, keep your eyes open!

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I look forward to this project as well as the Matrix.

I shall be watching

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Nice Andrea! Of course you'll be leaving the film grain in. What about the lossless DTS-HD MA 5.1 track from the Blu-ray? I could rip it for you if need be. How about a version which is English only? Meaning the English tracks including lossless, being first choice, and English SDH subtitles.

Go for HD or GTFO.

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FremenDar007 said:

Nice Andrea! Of course you'll be leaving the film grain in. What about the lossless DTS-HD MA 5.1 track from the Blu-ray? I could rip it for you if need be. How about a version which is English only? Meaning the English tracks including lossless, being first choice, and English SDH subtitles.

You're more than welcome to send me the lossless DTS-HD MA 5.1!!! Even if has a modern remix, it is a good alternative to have in a preservation.

About english only: as I'm italian, I like to hear movies in my language and, as the italian soundtrack for "The Thing" is only DD 2.0, a mere 150MB (as the french soundtrack, and the spanish is mono and only 75MB) I think there is no problems to add them, don't you think?

At the contrary, as there is a lot of space left to fill a BD25, other language soundtracks with better quality are welcome.

For subtitles: if someone would like to provide .srt subtitles... I've no time now to search them! I like to include english, english SDH, italian, french, german and spanish, and commentary english and other languages if/when available.

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Andrea, I'll see what the filesize is for THE THING Blu-ray I have for the DTS-HD MA 5.1. I'm leaving the DTS Core track which is embedded in the lossless audio.

As I mentioned, this track should be the default track for the BD25, which includes the DTS Core, the PCM Laserdisc audio next and then the dubs.

I'll see what I can do about extracting the subtitles again from the Blu-ray. It's the UK release.

I'll pm you the links when I upload it.

Go for HD or GTFO.

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FremenDar007 said:

Andrea, I'll see what the filesize is for THE THING Blu-ray I have for the DTS-HD MA 5.1. I'm leaving the DTS Core track which is embedded in the lossless audio.


I agree that this track should be included if there's room. What do you mean when you say you're 'leaving' the DTS core? You can't take it out and use *just* the HD extensions - it's all or nothing. The only part you can use on its own *is* the core, (SD DTS at 640 kb/s IIRC), but then of course it wouldn't be lossless any more.

As I mentioned, this track should be the default track for the BD25,
which includes the DTS Core, the PCM Laserdisc audio next and then the
dubs.

I disagree that it should be default however. A modern remix is automatically lower in the food chain than original theatrical audio, lossless or not. But it's Andrea's project so I'll leave that choice up to him...

 

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Jonno said:

As I mentioned, this track should be the default track for the BD25,
which includes the DTS Core, the PCM Laserdisc audio next and then the
dubs.

I disagree that it should be default however. A modern remix is automatically lower in the food chain than original theatrical audio, lossless or not. But it's Andrea's project so I'll leave that choice up to him...

Seconded. I think the theatrical stereo might be a better default, as this does seem to be a theatrical preservation (restored audio and color timing, etc).

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Yes, I definitely want to include the DTS-HD MA 5.1, but "as is", not only the core... and, as Jonno and The Aluminum Falcon says, it will be not the default soundtrack, as this is not the original one, but a modern remix; it's a valuable "thing" though!

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UPDATE:

Today I captured the PAL UK laserdisc; colors are better than DVD, even if they are a bit dull. Despite the fact that some dozen frames are missing from DVD and LD compared to HD-DVD, in few cases HD-DVD is missing some frames...

I decided to use HD-DVD for frame reference, cutting no frame from it; DVD is used in the two scenes when LD side is fading out and the next side is fading in; for the rest of the movie, the LD is used as color reference - the missing frames are replaced with duplicate ones, to mantain the color reference intact, and it worked.

ColourLikeFBF is good, but as the LD has clipped whites, it work not optimally every time... As my ColourMatch gives the same results, but seems faster, and give me no problems, I opted to use it for chroma, while the HD-DVD is used for luma; here you are some comparison screenshots:

in these two images, it' easy to note the clipped whites in the flames...

Note the right details inside the red circles - there are less info in the LD because contrast was set too high. I know differences are not astounding, but now that I know there are there, I'd like to see more details, even if the image has less contrast and is darker.

Opinions?

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Do i see yellow i the snow in the last image?

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Hey, Andrea! As always, I can provide the French Lossless audio track from my laserdisc if you are interested ;) 

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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Do the duplicated/missing frames you mention mean that the audio tracks will not sync up to the unaltered HD-DVD?

I ask because, in the absence of a theatrical reference, I'm not convinced by the color changes (though you've undoubtedly done a fantastic job in matching the LD colors), but I was hoping I'd be able to take the LD audio from this release with and mux with my existing HD-DVD video.

George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.

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_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Opinions?

Andrea, these are exciting results. The images look perfect, and I am hoping the results are perfect in motion as well. I am looking forward to seeing the finished project. I will be looking very hard for instances where the chroma doesn't line up properly, but I am hoping the process yields perfect results.

Coupling the Luma and Chroma from different sources has always been a fascinating concept.

Visit my *NEW* Star Wars on Video Collection site:

http://www.swonvideo.com

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DoomBot said:

Do i see yellow i the snow in the last image?

You can see yellowish tracks in the ColourLike too... maybe it's only dirty snow, or the dog pissed there... (^^,)

ilovewaterslides said:

Hey, Andrea! As always, I can provide the French Lossless audio track from my laserdisc if you are interested ;) 

Of course I'm interested! Please send it along with video, even really compressed and at low resolution, because it will be easyier to put audio in sync with video.

Turisu said:

Do the duplicated/missing frames you mention mean that the audio tracks will not sync up to the unaltered HD-DVD?

Of course not. When a frame from LD/DVD is duplicated, the audio will have a small "hole" of few ms (really difficult to notice, as these frames are in the end or at the beginning of a scene, and often there is almost no sound there; when a frame is cut, audio will be cut consequentely - we are always talk about few ms, far less than a second.

I ask because, in the absence of a theatrical reference, I'm not convinced by the color changes (though you've undoubtedly done a fantastic job in matching the LD colors), but I was hoping I'd be able to take the LD audio from this release with and mux with my existing HD-DVD video.

When ready, you could always demux the file and take the soundtracks you like/need... but if you are not convinced about color, take a look at this test clip (17MB, 14mbps, 10sec): SENDSPACE - you could note in HD-DVD snow starts as blue, then becoming white, then pinkish... in my project, it stays white... there are several examples, I admit I posted the worst one, but it gives you an idea... if you still prefer the HD-DVD colors, stick with it! (^^,)

Video Collector said:

Andrea, these are exciting results. The images look perfect, and I am hoping the results are perfect in motion as well. I am looking forward to seeing the finished project. I will be looking very hard for instances where the chroma doesn't line up properly, but I am hoping the process yields perfect results.

Coupling the Luma and Chroma from different sources has always been a fascinating concept.

Thank you very much! I'm working on this project because I love this movie, and I'm happy someone else like you will enjoy it too!

The result is not perfect, but it's the best compromise I could think of, until someone could provide a faithful color reference.

I decided to use the HD-DVD original video for opening and closing credits - as there is almost no color correction to do, while for the whole movie I'll use HD-DVD luma with ColourMatch chroma taken from the LD - apart the LD side end and side begins, that have fade out/fade in; for these two scenes, I'll take chroma from DVD, slightly adjusted (only a bit more contrast) to be alike the LD.

Regarding audio soundtracks: I hope ilovewaterslides will send me the french PCM soundtrack soon, so I could work with it and release the project ASAP - the video processing is running right now!

Last "thing": what about if I use all the songs from the Morricone and/or new edition OST and build up a sort of isolated score? It will be interesting to have some hints by a "The Thing" aficionados to know where I must put each song, as some are in the movies, but a lot are not! And, in between tracks, should I leave silence, or add actual movie sountrack?

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_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

When ready, you could always demux the file and take the soundtracks you like/need... but if you are not convinced about color, take a look at this test clip (17MB, 14mbps, 10sec): SENDSPACE - you could note in HD-DVD snow starts as blue, then becoming white, then pinkish... in my project, it stays white... there are several examples, I admit I posted the worst one, but it gives you an idea... if you still prefer the HD-DVD colors, stick with it! (^^,)

Wow! That's really odd how the snow changes color like in the space of a single shot. I guess I'll have to just give it a watch through and make up my mind when it's released. :)

There seems to be a 35mm print of The Thing in Texas which gets screened periodically (last time seems to have been 2011). Too bad nobody here caught it.

 

George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.

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_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Last "thing": what about if I use all the songs from the Morricone and/or new edition OST and build up a sort of isolated score? It will be interesting to have some hints by a "The Thing" aficionados to know where I must put each song, as some are in the movies, but a lot are not! And, in between tracks, should I leave silence, or add actual movie sountrack?

The original US DVD has the standalone audio score.  I can't remember if the enchanced DVD reissue had it.

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Lacerated said:

The original US DVD has the standalone audio score.  I can't remember if the enchanced DVD reissue had it.

AFAIK, the isolated score could be listened during the documentary, but I'm not sure about its quality - could you provide it? And it's not present in the same PAL edition, or in the anamorphic reissue.

By the way, I'd like to use the 96KHz/24bit from vinyl, and eventually add the new tracks present in the remastered edition made in 2011 taken from the CD.

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 (Edited)

The audio of the isolated score on the US DVD sounded good, but I never did an A/B comparison between that and the audio CD.

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Nice project

Remember, Highlander, you’ve both still got your full measure of life. Use it well, and your future will be glorious.

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UPDATE:

Video

conversion to lossless is ready - when audio will be finished I'll convert it to AVC at the highest possible bitrate to fit a BD-25; I've watched some scenes and colors are good to excellent, except the part where the spaceship could be seen; they are few seconds, and even the HD-DVD colors were not so good, so I decided to leave it as is, for color continuity.

 

Audio

the following soundtracks are ready and in sync:

  • LD PAL PCM english 2.0
  • DVD PAL AC3 english 5.1
  • DVD PAL AC3 italian 2.0
  • DVD PAL AC3 french 2.0
  • DVD PAL AC3 spanish 1.0
  • DVD PAL AC3 commentary 1.0
  • HD-DVD english DD 5.1 (from DD+ core)

 

the following soundtracks must be syncronized:

  • LD NTSC PCM english 2.0 from 1990 (must check if it's different from PAL)
  • LD NTSC PCM english 2.0 from 1998 Signature Collection

 

eventual isolated score must be made.

if french PCM soundtrack will be available in the next few days, I'll add it too.

 

Subtitles

they still must be found - I should find the same language of the soundtracks; help is appreciated.

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_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

the following soundtracks must be syncronized:

  • LD NTSC PCM english 2.0 from 1990 (must check if it's different from PAL)

It will be the same mix, if that's what you're wondering (the initial home video release with the song replacement). I wouldn't expect the presentation/mastering to be any different but it may be worth having a listen.

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UPDATES:

lacerated has provided the isolated score (THANKS!); it will be used "as is" or, if possible, I'll try to use this score as guideline to do a higher quality version using 96KHz/24bit of vinyl rip of the original soundtrack.

ilovewaterslides has provided the french LD PCM soundtrack (THANKS!)

Jonno is working onto NTSC LD PCM soundtracks (THANKS!)

I added credits and related info in the first post accordingly.

Hope to release the project soon, next week it's a very possible target!

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Dropped off the forum for a bit and I come back to find this! :D

My god, the results look fantastic. I watched that clip and its shocking how much the color fluctuates. Glad that we're finally getting the version closest to what was shown in theaters color-wise. The original audio should be good too!

BD-mastering companies need to learn that color timing actually does make a difference in movies...

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You know, after I discovered the "Teal & Orange" affair, you will watch movies anymore with the same serenity... "Was that sky really teal? Was that face so orange?" (^^,) I'm a proud owner of many (if not all) laserdiscs that are free from T&O, and I'm happy!

If I were a powerful movie business V.I.P., I should impose a new standard for the next 4K BD: the movie MUST be released with discrete luma and chroma, and, if the movie was previously released with different color timings, each one MUST be included... should we start a petition right now?

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UPDATES:

Thanks to Jonno, I discovered that the HD-DVD video I have has 12 missing frames... (XX/)

Jonno managed to capture those frames for me; then I reinstated them in the correct place, color graded them as the rest of the movie, and I had to resync all the soundtracks... (XX/)

Good news: I finished in record time, and all is well!

Jonno sent me the DD+ (extracted to lossless 48KHz/24bit); at this quality, the uncompressed PCM is about 5.5GB! As the main english soundtrack will be PCM taken from the Signature Collection LD (next will be the PCM from NTSC Letterbox LD), a good third option could be a "simple" DTS 48KHz/16bit, retaining a very good quality in limited space (about 1.2GB).

I found also the italian, french, german and spanish soundtrack from BD: the italian is with "superstitious", while the DVD has not, so I'll use both; the french is 5.1 while the DVD is only 2.0, but I have the PCM 2.0 so I'll discard the DVD one; german was missing, so I'll use it; spanish on BD is better quality than DVD, so I'll discard the latter. I think I'll convert them to medium-bitrate AC3, to give more space to video and because the original recording is not that high quality - opinions about this?

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