The Thing (1982) - sound mixes (Released)

I’m looking to sync a theatrical stereo sound mix for The Thing to the BD (or, more likely, HD-DVD) video and was hoping someone could help me make the right choice.

First of all, here’s a rough timeline:

1982: The Thing released in 35mm Dolby Stereo and 70mm 6-track

1985-1987: Initial home video versions released. The song ‘Superstition’ is redubbed by Universal with ‘One Chain Don’t Make No Prison’ (none too carefully - see link below)

1990: Universal letterboxed laserdisc with digital PCM - retains the altered soundtrack from previous releases

1998: Signature edition laserdisc and collector’s edition DVD released. Both include a 5.1 remix (reinstating ‘Superstition’), while the laserdisc also contains a stereo PCM track

2006 on: HD-DVD and Blu-ray released with HD variants of the 5.1 mix

There’s more information on the home video changes in comments from producer Stuart Cohen found here: http://thethingfan.fr.yuku.com/reply/41808#.UeRAFG3UccO (post 56 in particular)

So here’s the question: I’ve captured both the 1990 letterbox and 1998 signature editions (thanks again Bigrob!) Which is truer to the original? The concern is that the 1998 stereo is just another incarnation of the remix for 5.1, but with its original content it would be the preferable choice.

Opinions please. Winning mix gets synced!

Jonno said:

I'm looking to sync a theatrical stereo sound mix for The Thing to the BD (or, more likely, HD-DVD) video and was hoping someone could help me make the right choice.

First of all, here's a rough timeline:

1982: The Thing released in 35mm Dolby Stereo and 70mm 6-track

1985-1987: Initial home video versions released. The song 'Superstition' is redubbed by Universal with 'One Chain Don't Make No Prison' (none too carefully - see link below)

1990: Universal letterboxed laserdisc with digital PCM - retains the altered soundtrack from previous releases

1998: Signature edition laserdisc and collector's edition DVD released. Both include a 5.1 remix (reinstating 'Superstition'), while the laserdisc also contains a stereo PCM track

2006 on: HD-DVD and Blu-ray released with HD variants of the 5.1 mix

There's more information on the home video changes in comments from producer Stuart Cohen found here: http://thethingfan.fr.yuku.com/reply/41808#.UeRAFG3UccO (post 56 in particular)

So here's the question: I've captured both the 1990 letterbox and 1998 signature editions (thanks again Bigrob!) Which is truer to the original? The concern is that the 1998 stereo is just another incarnation of the remix for 5.1, but with its original content it would be the preferable choice.

Opinions please. Winning mix gets synced!

I say both, I actually just took the UK BD and stripped the video and replaced it with my HD-DVD video and kept the entire BD intact.

dj, the bd audio doesn't match the hd-dvd video. you need to edit it in order make it sync. i have the dts-hd audio already synced here.

zeropc said:

dj, the bd audio doesn't match the hd-dvd video. you need to edit it in order make it sync. i have the dts-hd audio already synced here.

I used the UK BD because of all those kick ass extras and the 2 video's lined up perfectly, I was totally shocked I did not have to synch anything, so maybe you have to with the US BD but the UK was perfect for me.

yeah, i indeed used the u.s. blu-ray.

The HD-DVD looks a lot better than the Bluray does.  I'm now going to have to learn how to take my HD-DVD video and swap it out like d_j did.  This would be a perfect time to have the PCM audio from the LD too.

:)

I'm in for both too. In fact I think you should add the LD 5.1 mix from 1998 to round it up.

it would probably easier to include the audio from signature collection dvd. though, i think that the 5.1 audio from the blu-ray used the same source files as the 5.1 on the ld and old dvd.

DJ, so all one have to do is to swap the m2ts file in the Blu-ray folder for the main feature, and reburn?

Stamper said:

DJ, so all one have to do is to swap the m2ts file in the Blu-ray folder for the main feature, and reburn?

Not exactly, and my version is no longer VC-1.

bigrob said:

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Jonno, it seems there is no Signature Collection laserdisc, according to LDDB - the latest NTSC laserdisc edition is this (I have this one) released in 1994... maybe it's still not present on LDDB; in this case, have you more info about it?

 This is for The Thing mate ;)

Jonno, glad your enjoying the disc i sent you, like i said mate, take your time with it but yeah, i was gonna suggest using the HD-DVD transfer as well since it's superior

May I ask how one would go about swapping the HD-DVD video for the Blu?  That in itself would be mighty helpful for me.  I'm wanting to use some of the HD-DVD video I have and match it with the DTS cinema audio to make a custom disc of sorts.  For the Thing, I'd love to have the PCM and the 5.1.  If there is opportunity for a snail mail disc I'd be grateful.

:)

Just to clarify, these are the discs that I have captured (and yes, this thread is about The Thing, not EFNY!)

Universal Letterboxed edition (1990)

Universal Signature Collection (1998)

I only have the means to capture the PCM Dolby Stereo, not the 5.1 AC-3 - though as others have said, that is probably an identical mix to the one included on the DVD (and perhaps even the HD versions), and unless there's some evidence that it's a 70mm 6-track transfer I'm not particularly interested in messing about with that.

(The remixes have their supporters - apparently they sound quite close to the original - but they're remixes nonetheless and I'm looking for a purer source here.)

The HD-DVD video is demonstrably the best choice for picture, so I'll certainly be syncing to that. As to whether to keep it VC-1 or convert, I guess that's for individuals to choose for themselves but personally I'll do my very best to not re-encode if I can avoid it (though since VC-1 can be a bugger to work with I may have no choice there).

So folks want both versions then? I guess that's my summer taken care of...

Jonno said:

Just to clarify, these are the discs that I have captured (and yes, this thread is about The Thing, not EFNY!)

Universal Letterboxed edition (1990)

Universal Signature Collection (1998)

I only have the means to capture the PCM Dolby Stereo, not the 5.1 AC-3 - though as others have said, that is probably an identical mix to the one included on the DVD (and perhaps even the HD versions), and unless there's some evidence that it's a 70mm 6-track transfer I'm not particularly interested in messing about with that.

(The remixes have their supporters - apparently they sound quite close to the original - but they're remixes nonetheless and I'm looking for a purer source here.)

The HD-DVD video is demonstrably the best choice for picture, so I'll certainly be syncing to that. As to whether to keep it VC-1 or convert, I guess that's for individuals to choose for themselves but personally I'll do my very best to not re-encode if I can avoid it (though since VC-1 can be a bugger to work with I may have no choice there).

So folks want both versions then? I guess that's my summer taken care of...

I'd be happy with just the PCM Dolby Stereo.  I SO wish there had been a DTS track for this somewhere ..... THAT would be cool.

You know how to reach me ..... LOL

:)

dark_jedi said:

zeropc said:

dj, the bd audio doesn't match the hd-dvd video. you need to edit it in order make it sync. i have the dts-hd audio already synced here.

I used the UK BD because of all those kick ass extras and the 2 video's lined up perfectly, I was totally shocked I did not have to synch anything, so maybe you have to with the US BD but the UK was perfect for me.

You git it to work in the end? Kudos, I could never get them to work 

The Thing rules? no why would this be needed when we have GREAT video in the HD DVD? and leave the VC-1 untouched? your opinion only, we had our reasons for doing what we did and you will not be able to tell a difference, but honestly an LD BD of this, you are kidding right? the HD DVD video will just blow it right out of the water.

There was a reason we went this route You_Too and I and also the AVC codec is way better, either way everyone has there own ideas and opinions on what is right and what is not and what is needed, so everyone can enjoy doing these any way they feel the need to, all is good.

_,,,^..^,,,_, no apologies necessary, though thanks for the explanation!

Is this the PAL disc you have? It's well regarded in picture terms but I should imagine it's comparable to the 1990 NTSC disc (it's certainly the same - altered - mix). Still, if you'd like to do a capture we could exchange and compare (though I've never dabbled with PAL > film rate conversion so the syncing would be over to you!)

On the VC-1 vs. AVC argument, I really hate to re-encode but VC-1 is just such a dog to work with (sync being one of its many potential problems). For what it's worth, even if people do choose to convert the video our audio should remain perfectly compatible (provided frame count/rate are preserved).

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

dark_jedi said:

...but honestly an LD BD of this, you are kidding right? the HD DVD video will just blow it right out of the water.

Yes, I was kidding... this time, at least! (^^,)

I should check if a friend of mine has the HD-DVD italian edition of the movie (it should be the same of UK) then I could try to align the PCM PAL LD soundtrack, as see what I could obtain from it... at least, I could always leave the italian soundtrack there - you know, I LOVE to hear the original soundtrack, but the italian dubbing is usually very very good too - and simpler to follow for me...

I have the UK PAL LD it has the best PQ but as with yours there will be PAL speed up and syncing it will be a bitch 

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

No problem to convert PAL speed to proper 23.976fps and sync it to the video. Well, according to LDDB:

"When Palmer shouts to Nauls' to "turn that crap down, I was shot today!", a different track, Superstition by Stevie Wonder, is playing from Nauls' ghetto blaster in the kitchen. A different track plays on the Pioneer Cinema PAL release [PLFEB 33051]. I dont remember Stevie on the 1980's UK video releases either...

...The Stevie Wonder track is the original song played in the movie. The song was changed in some releases due to licensing."

So, strictly speaking, the PAL LD soundtrack is not the original... should it must be included in a preservation then?

Now that I know that HD-DVD has a better quality than BD, I'd like to know if the HD-DVD is the "right" version to go... I mean, has it good colors, no missing edges, no missing frames/scenes, no alterations? I agree with DJ that a poor LD could not stand at the same level of a well crafted HD-DVD or BD, but if I have to choose, I prefer lower resolution video with the closest image to the original theatrical version, than the top-notch-out-of-this-world video quality *enanched* edition - but you know, I'm an old man from an old continent who loves old analog video formats, so... (^^,)

Have you not been reading this thread? the HD DVD is the go to video right now, until a new remaster comes out if any does, I hope it does at some point but who knows, but almost all want this but you still question it lol, believe me, your LD capture will not touch this HD DVD video, there is just no way.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

DJ, there are a lot of people that say that JP 3DBD is perfect - it has the right colors and the whole frame intact... well, to me the colors are not right - but this is questionable as I'm afraid I have no eidetic memory... at least the second statement is false, as laserdisc has more picture informations at all four sides than the 3DBD... so, it could be declared that JP 3DBD is the best version ever released, but it's NOT perfect, and someone like me (and other people) prefer to have an option to see another version, also if its quality is lower than a BD - and they spent weeks, literaly, to download it...

So, I agree with you that today the HD-DVD of "The Thing" is the best version ever released, but... is this "perfect"? If I discover that, for example, the PAL version has more picture information on the four sides (like JP), or have a better color timing, I could *think* to start a laserdisc preservation, that will be never on par or near the HD-DVD (or BD), video quality wise, but could be appreciated by someone... obviously, if they have the same video, I will not waste time to do it, don't you think?

As I'm almost sure my friend has the HD-DVD of it, I'm thinking about a HD-DVD video plus LD audio will be an exciting new challenge - think that right now I have NO idea how to rip an HD-DVD (or a BD, by the way)... well, did you understand the spirit? (I should find a new acronym for this thing)

You could be right, I'm wasting my time doing stupid preservation (almost) no one wants/needs, but I discovered and learnt so many things thanks to them, and also to many members of this forum, that I'm happy I've done them. At the end, this is an hobby, and we all make it for fun, isn't true? At least, give me your opinion about my laserdisc projects... do you think they are so awful?

Now we are going off topic in Jonno's thread, yes these are to be fun of course and people can do what they want, but people can also voice opinions as well, and now it seems you want mine, well all I can tell you is I have not downloaded them and have zero interest to, I will not waste that much bandwidth on downloading a LD Blu-ray lol, to me this is a waste, that said I fully realize that Team Blu is working on GOUT upscales for our OT and 97 SE Sets, well because of You_Too's talents and the efforts from the rest of the Team these will be great! but after we are done with these, we will no longer do anything with VHS\LD\DVD video again, unless this is the only source for an extra or there is a must tech reason for it like PCM audio or a DTS track etc., so I mean no offense but I will never see what you did.

Sorry Jonno for the de railing of your thread, that said looking forward to whatever you end up doing audio wise, I am sure whichever route you go will be worth it in the end.