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The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut — Page 64

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I saw the theatrical cut on TV a good 20 years ago, in Portugal, and I could never remember what is called. Now I know what it is.
I want to get this on DVD, as I'm downloading the Recobbled Cut. Which DVD should I get? The old or the new one? What about the VHS? Is it the same cut that released on DVD the first time around. What about LaserDisc?
I'd appreciate any help you can provide.
Cheers.
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Originally posted by: TServo2049
I have thankfully never seen the Miramax cut until now. It's almost like some kind of sick, twisted joke...except it's not a joke. Jonathan Winters' running commentary (I cannot call it anything else) feels more like a poor attempt at either an MST3K-style riff job, or Bob Saget's stupid voiceovers on America's Funniest Home Videos.

It'd be morbidly funny if someone did a joke parody version of The Gold Rush, or the General, or some other classic silent comedy, with a Winters-style voiceover for Charlie Chaplin, or Buster Keaton, or whoever, spouting stupid jokes and random pop culture references...it'd be no more an insult than this...

Oh, am I glad I've watched the workprint and/or Recobbled Cut about a dozen plus times before ever seeing this train wreck...


Well, the re-release of The Gold Rush with Charlie Chaplin's narration is almost as bad. He ruins most of the jokes by describing them before they actually happen.

I remember reading a quote from somewhere that said the reason Chaplin became so famous in silent films was because that was the only way they could shut him up.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Originally posted by: Faustus
I saw the theatrical cut on TV a good 20 years ago, in Portugal, and I could never remember what is called. Now I know what it is.
I want to get this on DVD, as I'm downloading the Recobbled Cut. Which DVD should I get? The old or the new one? What about the VHS? Is it the same cut that released on DVD the first time around. What about LaserDisc?
I'd appreciate any help you can provide.
Cheers.


Do you mean a commercial DVD? The only widescreen DVD is out of print and is from Region 2 (not to mention it's a pretty lousy DVD). The "better" Australian cut is only in pan & scan. There's literally no DVD you can just buy normally in order to just get a tiny bit of quality presentation of ANY version of the film. Download it and save your money for stuff that actually had thought put into it like from Warner Bros. or Criterion.

MORE Google Video!

Richard Williams Studio Commercials (Reel One)
Richard Williams Studio Commercials (Reel Three)
Richard Williams and The Thief Who Never Gave Up

The first commercial reel is the one with the Roger Rabbit Diet Coke ad, Harlem Globetrotters, and the most "formal" reel with custom interstitials using footage from A Christmas Carol and Charge of the Light Brigade. It's also the best quality of the three (especially since ocp did a fantastic job on 24fps conversion). It also has the really famous Cresta, Owens-Corning and TDK ads (with the Pink Panther), Shell, Sex Appeal, Fanta, America's Life Insurance Companies, Tic Tacs, etc. The third is that really bad quality tape that starts off with Embassy American cigarettes... but it has some of the good ones like Cresta, Tic Tacs, Cadbury, and Vita Maltz. I need to find the second one... I forgot which disc it's on.

Of course, the last one is the excellent Thames TV documentary that's a must-see.

Letterboxed "Princess" and full Mark II Recobbled cuts are being encoded right now and should be up by tomorrow.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Originally posted by: OgOggilby

Do you mean a commercial DVD? The only widescreen DVD is out of print and is from Region 2 (not to mention it's a pretty lousy DVD). The "better" Australian cut is only in pan & scan. There's literally no DVD you can just buy normally in order to just get a tiny bit of quality presentation of ANY version of the film. Download it and save your money for stuff that actually had thought put into it like from Warner Bros. or Criterion.
Especially the fourth Looney Tunes box that came out last Tuesday! Wished I had some extra cash lying around to get it.

MORE Google Video!

Richard Williams Studio Commercials (Reel One)
Richard Williams Studio Commercials (Reel Three)
Richard Williams and The Thief Who Never Gave Up
More fun for my PSP!

The first commercial reel is the one with the Roger Rabbit Diet Coke ad, Harlem Globetrotters, and the most "formal" reel with custom interstitials using footage from A Christmas Carol and Charge of the Light Brigade. It's also the best quality of the three (especially since ocp did a fantastic job on 24fps conversion). It also has the really famous Cresta, Owens-Corning

Being reminded Owens-Corning had to put up a billboard near their HQ downtown about them bouncing back from bankruptcy a few years back, and to this day they still use Pink to pimp their insulation!

and TDK ads (with the Pink Panther), Shell, Sex Appeal, Fanta, America's Life Insurance Companies, Tic Tacs, etc. The third is that really bad quality tape that starts off with Embassy American cigarettes... but it has some of the good ones like Cresta, Tic Tacs, Cadbury, and Vita Maltz. I need to find the second one... I forgot which disc it's on.

The last batch were probably from my collection!

Of course, the last one is the excellent Thames TV documentary that's a must-see.

This also came from me too (and from a videotape that cost me plenty on eBay).

Letterboxed "Princess" and full Mark II Recobbled cuts are being encoded right now and should be up by tomorrow.

Cool.
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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Good heavens. The soundtrack of the Miramax version (which I'm seeing for the first time now) is giving me a headache... Yeeaghch...

The Folk score is actually pretty good in some parts when allowed to stand on its own (the first scene with the thief being a prime example), but here it's delegated to background music - instead, we have that horrible narration by Tack and the thief. Both of their voices are very irritating. There might as well be elevator music in the background because it's so quiet compared to the voices. There are unnecessary voices everywhere - I guess the producers thought that any scene is improved by the addition of a voice. Hence, when Tack and Princess YumYum first meet in the throne room, they couldn't just have them tilt their heads in silence. No, when Tack tilts his head he has to say "hmm", then the princess tilts her head and says "hmm" and so on. It makes the entire scene completely ridiculous.

The outsourced animation is really horrible. Definitely Saturday-morning-cartoon quality.

I wish I didn't have to watch this monstrosity, but someone has to look after that wikipedia page, so I might as well.
For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
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IMO, Robert Folk's score is decent. Just decent.

It also feels extremely derivative. Besides the fact that the Thief's theme sounds like the Pink Panther theme (melody-wise), it sounds like Folk is desperately trying to channel James Horner. With the sweeping, grandiose music, I keep thinking Star Trek II. With the soft, pastoral, and/or emotional stuff, I keep conjuring up images of The Land Before Time.

And is it just me, or does the music (also heard in the Recobbled Cut) when the Thief gets the last golden ball from the war machine, and flies up toward the viewer before plummeting back down, sound like the famous bicycle scene from E.T.?
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Originally posted by: Esn

The outsourced animation is really horrible. Definitely Saturday-morning-cartoon quality.
No kidding! I can think of a ton of Saturday morning things nearly as bad as this! The late 80's/early 90's was especially lame for the "runaway productions" that were in place at the time.

Incidentally, here's a short interview David Silverman (producer on The Simpsons and a few other things) had said about overseas animation production of interest to our thread....
How does overseas animation fit into "The Simpsons" production process?

Of course, if we all remember what Tony White had said in an interview for his latest book a few pages ago, he felt that overseas animation subcontraction should only work if it contributes to the growth of animation in said country. Often I wonder how true this is nowadays or is it just not taken literally. Even in the age of CGI, there's still that need to rely on our buddies in Asia for the bulk of it (a studio in Shanghai for example worked on Dreamworks' prime-time flop "Father of the Pride" for example), though usually much of it still exists more for TV production. I remember back in the 90's when I had to catch an airing of the "All Dogs Go To Heaven" sequel on TV (shudder), and couldn't help but noticed the nearly dozen studios globally that were involved in that slop.

I wish I didn't have to watch this monstrosity, but someone has to look after that wikipedia page, so I might as well.

We can certainly use a few good souls to maintain the fort! Perhaps add in that the ink & paint (possibly "inbetween") work was done in Thailand or such. According to the films credits, there was a few studios responsible for the remainder of the animation in Calvert's edition. Two people were credit for "ink & paint" for both Hungary and Thailand, and a Varga Studios was among the names mention under "Animation Production Services" which is located in Budapest. LA-based Kroyer Films and a studio in London called Premier Films, Ltd. is credited for "Additional Animation". And of course there's Thai Wang Film Production, though the credit for them on "Princess and the Cobbler" gets them bracketed with their Taiwanese main office.
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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Oh, don't be shy, David Boulet wrote a review that makes me smile and it's more than worth a full length quote.

I did speak to David before he wrote this, and that's pretty obvious - I do wish he had watched the Recobbled Cut before writing though.



The Thief and the Cobbler
Written by DaViD Boulet
Friday, 17 November 2006
Miramax Home Entertainment / 1993 / 73 Minutes / G
Street Date: November 21, 2006

I’m not qualified to review the “movie” quality of this film having never seen the real film. You see, what’s been released on this DVD is a severely compromised shadow of the original concept by animation artist Richard Williams (best known for his work in Who Framed Roger Rabbit?). However, I’ll do my best to pass along a bit of what I’ve learned while becoming acquainted with this film for the purpose of this review.

Richard Williams began working on The Thief and the Cobbler in the mid-to-late ‘60s. At the time, he was assisted by several old-school Disney animators (Art Babbit and Grim Natwick) along with a few excellent artists from Warner Brothers. For many years Williams financed work on the film using his own money; it was his dream to create an unrivaled animated masterpiece that would manifest uncompromised artistic expression of the medium. After recognition for his work on Roger Rabbit, Williams was able to find investors willing to finance his production of The Thief and the Cobbler. However, after a brief period the studio hands funding the project became dubious of Williams’ ability to produce a marketable film and they took the project out of his hands for completion. This new team replaced many of the original animated scenes with farmed-out third-party animation and added clichéd musical sequences in an effort to clone the success of Aladdin. Several different versions of this studio interference were released in different regions. However the Miramax version is one of the most troubling; the studio added narrative dubbing for the lead characters during what Williams had animated to be silent sequences.

It was hoped by many fans that this new Miramax DVD release would present the film in a manner better reflecting Williams’ original workprint for the film (google to learn more about the surviving workprint). Or, if not presenting a fully restored director’s cut of the original film concept, it was hoped that Miramax would at least appeal to the fan base by presenting the film in its original aspect ratio of 2.35:1 with a new film-to-digital transfer and include missing original workprint content in the form of bonus features and deleted scenes. None of those wishes have been granted in this new DVD release. Sadly, to my eyes and ears it looks like Miramax has simply transferred an old VHS/Beta copy onto DVD with fancy silk-screening and fold-out packaging to disguise the travesty.

The Video: How Does The Disc Look?

After having reviewed Disney’s recent re-release of The Fox And The Hound I honestly didn’t think it could get any worse.

It has.

The image quality of this disc, quite literally, looks like a VHS/Beta tape rather than a DVD . . . and one that’s seen better days. Colors are smeared and murky. Detail is nonexistent. There’s a strange flutter/wobble to whatever detail has managed to survive. It’s like what you expect to see when you record a cable program onto VHS for time-shifting. Blacks are crushed and grayscale tracking is non-linear. I could hardly believe my eyes; there’s even dot-crawl characteristic of composite video. That’s right. The Miramax magicians couldn’t even take the time to use a decent comb-filter to break out the luminance/chrominance channels when transcribing the source composite analog master to component digital for DVD authoring. And on top of it all, you’re forced to view the surviving fragments of Williams’ groundbreaking animation through a 1.33:1 pan-and-scan window that slices off almost half of the artwork at any given time.

Unforgivable.

You’re the consumer. If you are dissatisfied with the studio’s efforts on this title there is a toll-free number you can call. They value your input. Be polite.

The Audio: How Does The Disc Sound?

The Dolby stereo mix is slightly less infuriating than the video presentation, but that’s not giving it any praise. High-frequency extension and detail are still intact and the soundstage has a surprising sense of depth at times. However, there’s enough wow and flutter on this soundtrack to make you think you’re listening to a cassette tape that had been played all summer long in the dash of an overheated car. Dynamic range is also severely restricted (sounds very compressed) and the audio has a tiny-quality that sounds a bit shrill at times. Without any solid bass extension, the audio sounds unsatisfyingly thin.

Supplements: What Goodies Are There?

No special features whatsoever are provided on this Miramax DVD release. None. Unless you count silk-screen artwork on the disc as a special feature. You don’t even get a booklet with printed chapter-stops. Oh, but you do get that fold-out pop-up castle in the cardboard DVD cover-sleeve. Maybe you can just buy the sleeve without the disc and save some money since that’s the only thing worth complimenting about this release.

Exclusive DVD-ROM Features: What happens when you pop the disc into your PC?

None are included on this disc.

Final Thoughts

Miramax had an opportunity to right the wrongs of the past with this new DVD release of The Thief and the Cobbler. Ideally, they painstakingly would have done their best to restore this unrealized work of Richard Williams’ animated art to its original, intended, form. At the very least, they might have presented the current compromised edit in the animation’s original 2.35:1 aspect ratio and provided the excised sequences and workprint content along side the feature film in the form of bonus material so collectors would have access to the original concept and animated sequences.

None of these criteria were realized. Rather, it looks to my eyes and sounds to my ears like Miramax has merely recycled the shoddy off-the-shelf composite analog master boasting no better than VHS image and sound qualities. Without even a single special feature to mitigate the offense, I heartily recommend you avoid this release and contact the studio to let them know about the proper DVD presentation that would earn your purchase.
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Okay, so anyway ....

I'm away for a few days and there are two new pages of posts in this thread! Damn. I've never seen such devotion in a droid ... er, thread before. You guys are really something, and I know that a thread with this much feeling behind it, that has brought so many results and things I could never have dreamed of to light will bring a bigger result one of these days - the result we're all waiting for. Oh, Disney.

I've arrived in Connecticut. All my stuff is in storage, I'm staying with family for the time being and I can't send out most DVDs at the moment. I'll probably be back up and running in December. I still won't be around here much for the time being.

Moderators have closed my Star Wars Classic 2.0 thread - specifically Moth3r - and there was also a thread here where I was accused of greed in this project, which is remarkable when you consider that I sent out literally thousands of free Thief related DVDs to members of the production team and made this DVD downloadable for free via torrent and have worked tirelessly this past year bringing new stuff to light and well blah blah blah WHATEVER.

My response to all this can be found in the Ocpmovie Megathread -- as well as more blah about what's going on in my life. Like how I had to turn down an audition for the TV show My Name is Earl ..... an audition I would have killed for a week ago.


ANYWAY ANYWAY, let me respond to SOME of what's going on in this thread.


First of all, major gratitude to Ogg Oggilby. He's posted most of the major things a Thief fan ought to watch right there on Google Video. The quality is Google-ugly, but I understand the downloadable iPod/PSP versions are lovely (I'll check 'em out when I'm back on my Mac), and since most of this stuff has NOT been torrented, this is a very cool way for you to get it for free the internet way. Already it's done TServo and Esn a favor by letting them see the crap versions of the movie.

So Ogg, as perhaps a sideways salute to Bonnie let me do this like Stephen Colbert.

Tip of the Hat, Wag of the Finger.

Big Tip of the Hat to you for making this stuff available in a new and wonderful way. You've worked hard as always, broadcasting to the masses, and this beats GBS-TV for viewership.

Wag of the Finger to you for reediting the Recobbled Cut to your own twisted needs. I'm saying that with a smirk because I kind of like the idea of a different cut, but for god's sake, if you're going to put the Recobbled Cut out there, PUT THE RECOBBLED CUT OUT THERE. I don't like my work being recut and reworked without my permission particularly when the original isn't available in that format.

I'm sure all the changes you made were valid in terms of matching the workprint closer. But I made the Recobbled Cut different from the workprint for a reason. Everything you've done here is something I considered doing in my own cut, and then decided wasn't a good idea.

I'd be interested in seeing a "closer to the workprint" cut, sure. You can present my own cut, and then your remix. I loved seeing your version of the flight over the mountains, which I think is just as valid as my version. It's a little weird to watch for an audience who doesn't know what they're watching, which is why I didn't do the same in my cut, but it's much closer to Richard's intentions and it shows what I WISH I could have done in my cut, if the footage was there.

I love the workprint, lord knows I've watched it enough times, more than anyone here. But it's not a finished version of the film. Fred Calvert may have ruined the film, but he did finish it, and he created changes in the film that are difficult to undo without making jarring, awkward edits. He also finished certain segments in ways that are, to my eyes, valid and acceptable for use in an edit that removes his hackwork otherwise. For example, it's certainly better for segments to have music. And anywhere that Calvert had a dissolve, I often had to have a dissolve too, because there was no editing around it.

The goal of this edit was to present the film as "Closer to Finished," and easier to watch for someone who knows nothing about the film's mangled history, and I included a lot of Calvert material because of that. It's not Williams quality, but it's finished animation, and that makes it all much easier to watch. Maybe some of the music isn't up to Williams' standards, but it's music which makes it easier to watch. Finished animation is much easier to watch than storyboards, and the Recobbled Cut combined with the workprint could serve as a storyboard for a new animation team to better what Calvert failed at.

But you know all that. So I'm just saying tsk tsk for sneaking in your own edits unannounced. But interesting to see your take on the film! I'd be curious to see a more workprinty workprint cut. I haven't really looked at your cut because of the computer I'm on - no MP4 capability it would seem.

My advice - if you think you've got the time to do so, do your own cut that fixes whatever problems you might have with my cut. Make it as different as you can, and more workprinty, and put it out as an alternate remix, but don't call it my cut. Rerecobbled?

Since that better Animating Art never turned up (Ben's still not around, STILL), you could also do your special edition of that ....


Okay, chiming in on other stuff .... the discussion has been quite interesting and sorry for chiming in suddenly but hey, it's my thread and I'll comment if I want to. =)


----

TServo -- Robert Folk's score is very derivative yeah, like a lot of mediocre film music is. It has that feel that it's very based on the temp music, which is interesting since we've HEARD the temp music in the Calvert Work in Progress, and it's nothing like the tracks that Folk's score seems derivative of. I mean, there's no Pink Panther, no James Horner, no John Williams (E.T., as you said) .... mostly it's Danny Elfman. But clearly Folk had his own "temp music" in mind.

I don't think it's ridiculously awful, when divorced from the Miramax and Calvert cuts. It's not really Williams' music, but I felt that, like Calvert's poor animation, it was fun to use it in this edit to "save it" .... let it serve the purpose of the film as intended.

I sort of intended the Recobbled Cut, in a weird way, to be the "Good Calvert" cut .... like if someone besides Williams had had to finish the film, but did it in a more respectful way.


>> The other is MeeMee saying "ugh, maybe something died". Quite frankly, the shot makes NO sense at all, since she was cut out of the previous scene (which I agree with). I don't understand why you would cut her out partially, but not completely. A viewer who hasn't seen the film suddenly sees someone answer YumYum, but has no idea who it is. The voice is different, and the way she inclines her head makes it clear that she is replying to someone, so it's pretty clear that she's not YumYum.

Uh, Yumyum and Meemee are identical twins. Identical. Even Tack can't tell them apart (in the Never Gave Up script).

It's clear that that's intended to be Yumyum, for the purpose of this edit. The voice isn't that different.

I feel quite confident that Williams would have left the line in, having Yumyum say it instead of Meemee. Or, if Hilary Pritchard was dead or unavailable, cut it entirely, but that leaves the scene without a punchline.

Can't have that. Of course I'd leave the line in. It makes the scene better.


>> For some reason, nearly all Williams photography has softer focus than Calvert's stuff. Notice how the handful of Williams shots in the Zig-Zag tower scene are darker and softer than the Calvert material.

It's older, and better photographed. Also photographed and lit with more subtlety. Leatherbarrow photographed the Williams stuff like a live action film .... done gorgeously, with multiple exposures and a million tricks.

Calvert's stuff looks clearer because the LINES ARE A MILE THICK. They were all animated with thick lines, artlessly, on a much smaller scale. Williams' art was much bigger, the lines thinner, photographed from farther away. Calvert is zooming in on tiny drawings, done without any of the skill.

Even the stuff done by the London team (like the scenes with Zigzag and One Eye), which are close enough to what Williams would have done, have much thicker lines because of the smaller paper/field size, and lack the glow of the tricksy, filtery Leatherbarrow photography, which was intended to be softer. The weaker animation is clear on a DVD but would look ridiculous on a big screen.


>>> I have thankfully never seen the Miramax cut until now.

Esn and Tservo. Yeah, it's unwatchable and I'm glad Ogg was able to bring it to you. You've been very critical (though approving) of my work on the Recobbled Cut, which I actually enjoy because it forces me to be honest and confront the ways in which I did deviate from the workprint. And I could tell you hadn't seen the Miramax cut when commenting. I find that people in general are more critical of the Recobbled Cut, until they see the Miramax Cut. Then they're so shocked that they get very quiet and are just kinda glad that I approached the project with an actual respect for the film!


>> It's also the best quality of the three (especially since ocp did a fantastic job on 24fps conversion).

(Commercials Reel) Thanks! For those coming in late, I also did color correction, made it all a bit more blue I think. This was originally from PAL and was slowed down from 25 fps to 24 fps, for use on an NTSC DVD.

>Studio Toledo
>>The last batch (of commercials) were probably from my collection!

Of course!

>> Thief Who Never Gave Up Documentary
>> This also came from me too (and from a videotape that cost me plenty on eBay).

Your copy of The Thief Who Never Gave Up is wonderful quality, a perfectly clear NTSC one, and worth the money as an artifact and copy.

I actually used a PAL master provided by baby hum for my DVD though -- he had converted it with great skill and that PAL clarity helped. I had a choice between your great transfer and his - a luxury I rarely had on this project!
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie

>Studio Toledo
>>The last batch (of commercials) were probably from my collection!

Of course!
Also noticed the Miramax cut that was put up is taken from my LD rip as well (not that it matters, but I wish I did a better job on encoding it, but it turned out OK as an MP4 off Google).

>> Thief Who Never Gave Up Documentary
>> This also came from me too (and from a videotape that cost me plenty on eBay).

Your copy of The Thief Who Never Gave Up is wonderful quality, a perfectly clear NTSC one, and worth the money as an artifact and copy.

I actually used a PAL master provided by baby hum for my DVD though -- he had converted it with great skill and that PAL clarity helped. I had a choice between your great transfer and his - a luxury I rarely had on this project!

I admire his master for having an opening title and production credits at the end. Mine's more the one that had existed before as that multi-generational copy but in first gen. Still, both are excellent sources in the end.
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
.

Esn and Tservo. Yeah, it's unwatchable and I'm glad Ogg was able to bring it to you. You've been very critical (though approving) of my work on the Recobbled Cut, which I actually enjoy because it forces me to be honest and confront the ways in which I did deviate from the workprint. And I could tell you hadn't seen the Miramax cut when commenting. I find that people in general are more critical of the Recobbled Cut, until they see the Miramax Cut. Then they're so shocked that they get very quiet and are just kinda glad that I approached the project with an actual respect for the film!



You're right about that. After seeing the Miramax cut, my view of the film completely changed.
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I was the same way; again, after seeing the Miramax cut, I've softened to the Recobbled Cut.

I mean, all the new voice people sound like they're phoning it in. Matthew Broderick doesn't even sound like he's acting; it's more like he's just reading the dialogue in his normal voice.

Patrick and I have this theory that Jonathan Winters recorded his dialogue in one take while watching the film. (He always sounds extremely bored, like "When is this gonna be over?")

Patrick even thinks that Winters may have just ad-libbed some of the dialogue on the spot. (Why did the combined Calvert/Miramax rewriting require six writers? Three to not come up with something good, and three to come up with something not good?)
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Again, I should have uploaded both to begin with (or just re-sync the workprint).

The full Mark II is up! The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut (Mark II)

On the DVD forums I usually frequent, if anyone mentions the new DVD, I'll point them to my Google Video link. Bootleg stuff is usually frowned upon, but when a studio is this careless with the presentation of a film, they don't deserve anything. It's 2006 and putting a pan & scan DVD from an old composite source is ridiculous.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Originally posted by: OgOggilby

On the DVD forums I usually frequent, if anyone mentions the new DVD, I'll point them to my Google Video link. Bootleg stuff is usually frowned upon, but when a studio is this careless with the presentation of a film, they don't deserve anything. It's 2006 and putting a pan & scan DVD from an old composite source is ridiculous.


Indeed. It's horrible how even after 10+ years, they're still treating this masterpiece like dirt.
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The most ironic headline ever: "The Weinsteins love The Theif and The Cobbler"

It seems that the Weinstein Co. is giving away these DVDs as promotional freebies - I've come across several giveaways by doing a google search. Depressing.
...

I wouldn't change my rating of the Recobbled Cut because I saw a much worse version of the film, Garret, but it has definitely made me realize just how necessary your work was (and I did know how hard you worked on it - one can't read all 80 pages of this thread and not get a sense of that). It also made me realize just how horrible it must've been for Richard Williams. The Recobbled cut itself is a version of the film that he wouldn't have dreamed of releasing into theatres (for the obvious reason that it's unfinished), but the version that WAS released was simply beyond horrible. AND it had his name attached to it. Hard to imagine what that must've been like, really.

Simply for my own viewing pleasure, I think I'll eventually try to create a kind of mix between your version and Ogg's (I don't think I'll put it up online or anything - it'll be just for me, family and a few friends). To repeat an earlier question, does anyone know why this video has a different image than either the recobbled or Ogg's cut, and where it comes from? The bricks on a tower are a different colour (light and chalky instead of bright orange), and the pencil drawings of the landscapes are much clearer than on the version that Ogg submitted to Google Video. I was just wondering if it's possible for me to obtain a high-quality version of that section somehow.
For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
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Esn, like me I think you're hoping that a more Richard Williamsy version of the film gets properly released someday without all this mucking about.


Ogg did color correction on his version to make it look ... different .... so that would explain color differences.
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The "flyover re-do" is just a demo of color correction and digital enhancement/stabilization. All I did is adjust colors to get rid of the red tint, make Zig-Zag a better shade of blue, and make black levels more inky. After watching the Film Board of Canada intros, you can clearly see the background used for the really wide shot of the square (when the Nurse is throwing around the Thief). The colors are quite vibrant (like Technicolor), but not to the point of being garish like Miramax's P.O.S.

At this point, it may even be a good idea to do some sort of shot-by-shot digital enhancement now that TWC is a bunch of charlatans.


Also: I never said that demo's color is totally accurate. It's just meant to get rid of pink Zig-Zag, pink/white skies, and orange sand. It may have to do with my suspicion that the R2 DVD was from a theatrical print instead of a properly balanced interpositive. 35mm prints have contrast and color balanced for xenon arc lamps, thus are inadequate for video transfers.


Also, Also: I just checked my pageview/download stats for my Google Video account. Which six of you knuckleheads went through the trouble to download the Miramax cut?
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Esn, like me I think you're hoping that a more Richard Williamsy version of the film gets properly released someday without all this mucking about.


Of course, but I'm not optimistic about the chances of it happening anytime soon. If the Weinsteins own the rights, it could be expensive for Disney to buy them back, which would eat into the budget of a potential restoration project.

Ogg's colour scheme in that scene seems more natural for some reason... was it actually the original one? EDIT: Never mind - I post slowly.
For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
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Jerry Verschoor writes us today .... is there anyone in Perth, Australia? Jerry has some artifacts and art from the original production, you could help him get it!


hi Garrett,
how is it going, i am off to australia soon, is there anyone in perth u know that could help me get the thief stuff for u? hope to hear from u to know how u r going. talk soon
jerry

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I don't live in Perth but might know someone who could help out. Will have to get in touch with them and get back to you.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

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Is the Mark II looking distorted to anyone? My original file that I uploaded is 16x9 and Google Video is playing it squashed! I checked my original AVI and it's not like this... has anyone downloaded it to see if it's distorted in that form, too?

Oh, the "Princess" cut should be online shortly (letterboxed). Garrett, which DVD has that second commercial reel (the one with the flash frame of breasts during the opening countdown )?
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Time
I've downloaded the AVI of the Mk.II from Google and it seems fine to me.
For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
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The Thief and the Cobbler: "International Cut/Princess Version"

I'm actually watching it all the way through since I didn't see any use in spending 80 minutes watching something in pan & scan... maybe because the Miramax version is so horrible, but it's quite watchable. If you edit out the song sequences (except maybe for beem boom since it's sort of catchy), I'd go as far to say it deserves a "3/5" compared to the Miramax's "1/5" Calvert at least seemed to understand that the Thief and Tack were co-stars in their own plot threads. If he left alone the voices and actually tried to work with Tack's muteness, I'd consider it to be more like what happened to Superman II... yeah, the original vision was compromised, but it still managed to be a really good movie. Major problems aside, the One-Eyes lose their impact without being a surprise later in the film. Continuity problems really become annoying... it doesn't make any sense for the Nurse to smile at Tack fixing her glasses, then immediately being a jerk. Other than the extra animation being quite awful, the re-editing of the Thief's attempts to get the golden statue is amusing since it echoes how it took so many attempts to get the balls.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Time
Originally posted by: OgOggilby
it doesn't make any sense for the Nurse to smile at Tack fixing her glasses, then immediately being a jerk.


Yeah, that was one of the reasons that I didn't like how that scene was handled in Recobbled Mk.II (though Garret's argument was that it was just a bit of harmless fun for the nurse to get mad and push Yumyum away - and to be fair, no cut of the film will ever make sense to everybody).

Thanks for uploading that video - I'll try watching it later tonight or tommorow.
For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)