logo Sign In

The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 6

Author
Time
Post link
1. You are misinterpreting what you're seeing there, but only slightly. So wait until you see the real thing.

2. The hands are supposed to be there.

3. I've combined the workprint and the Miramax version - you'll see everything you want to see from both. The "best bits", so to speak.
Author
Time
Post link
Doesn't any of the "official" releases have music credits during the scroll at the end?

Dr. M

Author
Time
Post link
None of the original music from the workprint survived to the released versions, Doctor M. You have never seen a film butchered to this extent. The Miramax release is practically an MST3K spoof of the film.
Author
Time
Post link
Discoveries --

I DO have a copy of the Arabian Knight trailer - it's on the Japanese DVD! I didn't notice it there because I can't read the Japanese text. Stumbled across it.

It's not a bad trailer actually, they made some of the same editing decisions I did while putting together my trailer, and some of the editing decisions I thought about and decided NOT to make.

I remember how unimpressed I was with it when I saw it in the theater as a kid though. They put in a lot of badly-animated Calvert shots, and you do think, hey, Aladdin clone. Even as a kid though, I thought about it later and eventually made the connection that this was actually "The Roger Rabbit director's big movie he kept talking about, but under a different name ..."

Weirdly, the Old Witch appears in the trailer briefly, along with a few shots from the war machine scene that don't survive in the Arabian Knight cut.

The trailer is in widescreen so I'll be swiping those shots. =)

Of course the trailer will appear on the DVD.

--

Also, in the scene where King Nod makes a big speech to his subjects, the Miramax/Calvert edits seem to have used the original voice track of Sir Anthony Quayle for King Nod! Probably by accident. Although their sound mix is rather too noisy as usual, I think I'll use this track in my edit, because ... wow ... the real voice of King Nod slipping into the Miramax edit, for an entire scene. That's something.

The scene where Nod talks to Yumyum about the witch is the weirdest scene to edit -- it's driving me mad. The only thing Williams animated were some silent inserts of The Thief and Tack which are really lengthy (and are even more lengthy in the Miramax edit than in the workprint) ... they take up most of the running time, so six years ago when I edited this, I did some really weird editing of the Calvert footage of Nod and Yumyum, syncing it, kind of, to the Williams audio. It's a weird scene. I can't quite figure it out ... still trying.

Author
Time
Post link
How many discs are you thinking this thing is gonna be now?

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

Author
Time
Post link
The movie will be one disc - and depending on how obsessive you want to be, there will be something like seven extra discs for those who want them.
Author
Time
Post link
So is there a planned distribution method at this point--basically, how is this going to make to myspleen, quickly? I wanna see this bastard pronto.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
I can't place most of the music used in the film tho'.


I've wondered since I saw your original edit if theres a list of what classical music was used in the film. I've always wanted the music that the Army Of The One-Eyes marches to towards the end. (I recognize most of the music else where but time has made me forget specifics)
Author
Time
Post link
Yeah .... good tracks, and would be helpful to have in this edit!


I don't recognize any of the music, apart from a few Scheherezade tracks and a couple of obvious gags ... A pity, as replacing the music does help a lot. I lack your knowledge of music. Heh.

In this cut, I'm actually using a lot of tracks from Robert Folk's score for the "Arabian Knight" version. Because ... why not ...



Tweaker - I release my discs via mail first.
Author
Time
Post link
What was the music in your trailer? It's rather stuck in my head at the moment.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author
Time
Post link
It's from Scheherezade, by Rimsky-Korsakov. Great music. I'll admit that that, and tracks from The Thief, are running through my head as I edit. =)



Editing part 2 has nearly broken me for the day - this is the most difficult edit I've ever attempted, by far. I've already exhausted every trick in my book and have come up with a million more that aren't in any book ...

The problem ... the biggest problem of many ... is that certain important scenes ... the witch scene mainly ... appear on the Princess and the Cobbler DVD, but only in pan & scan.

So, I was crazy enough to try to convert them into widescreen.

I should emphasize that ... TRY TO CONVERT THEM INTO WIDESCREEN.

If the shot is fairly static, which it never is, I create a background for it. If the shot is moving, and the same footage is in the workprint or elsewhere, I paste the two together somehow. I've been using a lot of Chromakey tricks to try to make it all kind of meld ... I've "colorized" a couple of simple black and white shots ... it's been completely insane.

For certain shots I've had to go frame by frame and color correct it to match ... or go shot by shot and move the background to match ... or move the shot to match ...

The shot pulling away from Zigzag into One Eye's camp/orgy was hell, and I never quite got it ... the reason being that the shot in Princess and the Cobbler is actually different than the shot in the workprint - it's the same animation, but it was reshot, using different lighting effects (so it flashes and flickers bright and dark differently than the workprint) and includes some extra elements (ravens, bats) and different backgrounds and things. The differences are so subtle, but just enough to completely ruin any chance of merging the two. I did so anyway, color correcting frame by frame. I did the best I could.

The shot that really introduces the witch, I had a lot of fun with, I spent ages on it. I created an entirely new background, put some of the workprint footage over it using Chromakey, and put the DVD footage in the middle - it looks wonderful.

I've reinstated footage and lines that didn't appear in the workprint ... stuff that never appeared in any version of the film ... it's very much a different and new and complex and entertaining edit.

But it's been a hundred times as hard as editing part 1.

Also, the sound is baaad, and I'm fixing it.

Pretty much done with the witch now. On to the final battle ... the war machine .....
Author
Time
Post link
So, is it a rather pleasant feeling to look back at the edit you did several years ago, and then look at this, and see how far you've come?
Author
Time
Post link
I gave away my only copy of my old edit a few months ago!

I suspect it would just kind of not interest me anymore. I've done better.


Well, no war machine yet. Gonna go over the whooole witch sequence and add music and try to make it work.

It's hard with the sound, hard to make it really stand out what the witch is saying. Very bad sound, and an odd voice.



The Fred Calvert replacement voice cast will be making a few minor appearances in this cut, when I wanted to use a line that I didn't have a recording of for the real cast, or needed to use a different recording for some reason.


So, here's a list for those interested in how Calvert's version sneaks into mine.


Clive Revill as Replacement King Nod:

- "My princess, I hardly know you. So brave. Just like your dear mother was. (laughs) Very well. You will go. Look here ..."

- "Oh my darling, be careful."

- "Take the right flank! You, the left flank! Turret! Gate! Drawbridge! Get the doctors ready ..."

(In all these cases, I just liked these alternate lines. They might even have been late additions to the Williams cut, who knows ...)

- Various moans as Zigzag speaks, in several scenes.


Bobbie Page as replacement Yumyum:

- "Yes Roofless, you stay here."

(And it pained me just to use that one line.)

Same scene - Mona Marshall as replacement Nurse:

- "Royal Guard? Hmf!"

(This scene might have been in Williams' cut, but the workprint cuts off oddly at this point. I was using a lot of Princess audio to cover it.)


Kevin Dorsey as replacement One Eye ...

- "None shall escape!" (From a little Zigzag scene that Williams cut out, but Calvert reinstated ... there are a lot of little things like that, and I've generally put them back in.)

- "Tomorrow, I strike. And you shall ride at the front ... sorcerer!"

(I just liked this line reading with the music.)
Author
Time
Post link
Hmmm .... speaking of using the Princess audio for this edit ...


It sounds to my ears like, for the most part, they actually kept Joan Sims' original voice for the witch.

- Update - Yep, Joan Sims is credited, along with Mona Marshall who did the extra lines. (Toni Collette in the Miramax edit.)


That comes in very handy, as the witch audio is awful. I'll go ahead and replace it with the Princess material where possible.



Oh .... on the subject of swearing in this movie .... I hadn't really noticed before, but one of the Brigands clearly says "Get your ass down. Get it down."

Nice.

The Nurse was allowed to say "ass" in the script, so I guess that makes it official. Along with the gag where Zigzag stops himself saying the "f" word.


Brings it one step farther away from Disney.
Author
Time
Post link
Nice...does the f word gag show up in the workprint, or in the Miramax/Australian releases, or only in script form? That's kinda surprising, really. Then again, Williams was involved with Roger Rabbit...
Author
Time
Post link
It's kinda of a crime, but did you try the obvious conversion for Pan/Scan to letterbox: cropping the top and bottom?
It sucks to lose even more of a frame, but it works surprisingly well sometimes.

Dr. M

Author
Time
Post link
The F word gag (and the word "ass") is in the workprint. Williams did like to push the boundaries a bit. He was making sort of PG animated films "for everyone." He snuck a few things into Roger Rabbit too of course. In the Thief, there are a lot of little double entendres with the word "balls", some of which Miramax cut ... and the rather odd character of the Witch (who sniffs gas - or "mystic fumes" and lights a match to blow herself up). There's also the matter of the King's entanglement with a "Maiden from Mombasa."



With regards to matting the top and bottom of the shot, that would ruin the shots beyond belief. They're very cramped in the pan & scan to begin with.


I've done "window boxing" on some of the shots ... presented them pretty large and uncropped, with black bars on the left and right. You'll get used to it!
Author
Time
Post link
On to the war machine.


"Makes Disney animation look like cheap, Korean AKOM crap." - Will Tasker
Author
Time
Post link
Definitely looking forward to seeing this. Just be sure to know your limitations, alright? I know this'll look fantastic, but just don't try to stretch things too far--if you stretch this stuff beyond it's limits, and try and throw too many tricks at it to make it work, you might come out with something that is less than the sum of its parts. But I have faith that you know how far to go with this. And know it'll kick ass.

Oh, and cough*before and after screenshots*cough.
Author
Time
Post link
Regarding the cuts made to the movie after Fred Calvert was done with it ... in particular the cutting out of roughly the entire March of the One Eye War Machine ...



Fuck you, Miramax. FUCK YOU, MIRAMAX. I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU.
Author
Time
Post link
It's always the way, isn't it?

Now that I'm on the last leg of editing this, doing some really hard work and not far off from done ... a guy writes me to say he has a few different versions of the film, probably better than I have and a couple of versions I haven't even seen ... works in progress of the Calvert cut ...

Very exciting indeed --- even if it might mean doing some of this over again!
Author
Time
Post link
Isn't it pretty much tradition by now for you to have to do your projects two or three times over?

So has this guy actually committed to giving you copies of his stuff? And any widescreen material?
Author
Time
Post link
>> Isn't it pretty much tradition by now for you to have to do your projects two or three times over?


I suppose.


This one has taken SO MANY HOURS though.


If this happens, I'll try to recreate my original capture files EXACTLY, on the exact frame, so that hopefully my edits will still be applicable-ish.
Author
Time
Post link
This is why you should always, always save your source files until you're SURE that you're done...and then save them for a while longer.
Author
Time
Post link
Couldn't save 'em on my hard drive, this is an enormous project. That's why I did it in two bits.

I still have all the DVD parts, just not my VHS workprint captures from pt. 1.