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The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 30

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Thanks Cassius! I turn 25 tomorrow, April 20th. Same as Hitler and Marge Simpson.



>> Ok, looks like we're doing a proposal presentation that involves the audience taking action to get Disney to release The Thief and the Cobbler. The great thing is that I'll be giving out copies of the Recobbled Cut to everyone on Wednesday.

Hahahaha! That's great! Wish I could be there, that's awesome.


I'm a Mac guy, so my suggestions on what to use will be useless to you. Maybe ask someone else ...

Obviously to copy a DVD, you just copy it to your hard drive, and burn it using Nero or Toast.

I think that Easy CD and DVD creator is the standard DVD creator for PC ... isn't it? Obviously on Mac we have DVD Studio Pro.





EDIT: Yeah, this cut is going to be a lot closer to the workprint.

I'm realizing more and more that the editing in the workprint was really quite nice .... It was kind of hard to tell when I was cutting with a low-quality version. =)

I'm including more black screen, and shots that I cut out before because I didn't see the point of them. I get the point now.


The opening credits are different .... We see a logo for "Richard Williams Animation" in Richard's own handwriting, and "A Richard Williams film" is now written in Richard's decorative style, similar to "The Thief and the Cobbler." "Once ..." is now illustrated with a slightly simplified version of the real "Once ..." logo. All this gives the film more of a Williams studio feel.

Transitions between workprint and DVD version are handled with dissolves and look really smooth.

There are extra two finished shots of One Eye, from the Calvert WIP.

I'm experimenting with using the new shots of Yumyum in the bath from the Calvert WIP. These shots are pencil tests, reanimated from what you see in the workprint. The old designs of Yumyum and Meemee have been chucked - we see Yumyum alone, with her hair long and down, as we know her in the film. It's not as well animated as the early workprint stuff though, it's not that good. Probably would have looked good if finished.

Because of this, I'm going to try to use them BOTH .... start with the workprint material, and then use the CWIP version of "Where is my backscratcher?" for Yumyum saying "What's happening to me?" See if that works.

I finished pretty much all of the visual editing for the first half of the film in a few hours last night. It was very quick.

But the sound is gonna take more work. I have to redo that from scratch too, and I'm attempting to remove a lot of Robert Folk's music and replace it with classical music, which is a real creative challenge.

At the moment, Folk's score is still present at the beginning of the film to introduce Tack and The Thief ... but after the Nurse beats up The Thief, we dissolve to a Verdi tune, and then to silence. In the throne room, we hear "Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis" and "Dance of the Boys."

I also have to create some new original animation and FX to cover the introduction of Yumyum and a pipe appearing outside the window as Tack cobbles.


RANDOM:

I always thought the Maiden From Mombassa scene was nice, but that it could be cut without damaging the story hugely. But looking at it closely, it really introduces the characters very well - there's a black hole of character without it. It sets up how Zigzag distracts the king from what's really going on, and how Yumyum is the smart one who knows what's going on but isn't in charge to stop it. And it's funny. In just a few seconds!
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Ah, nothing like remembering your birthday when it's also Hitler's.


I'm burning DVD-R's like crazy (have to pick up a 40-50 pack tomorrow), so I'm 90% certain I can send out the DVD-R with the Animated Art/I Drew Roger Rabbit clips, my classical music collection, and some other stuff like the awnings scene from The Three Ages, a Harry Langdon short, etc. on Friday. I'm going to send you my own discs for my four Vincent Price AIP films (including The Raven), Who Framed Roger Rabbit (you have the 2nd disc of the Vista Series set, right?) and fill up the DVD-R with whatever I can.

Then, once you're done, you can just send the discs back when you send the final Recobbled cut.

You know, just from hearing how exact he would make his storyboards, it wouldn't surprise me if the workprint was really spot-on. I think the editing between Zig-Zag comforting King Nod, the Thief's pole vaulting attemps, and Tack breaking out of his cell (and watching the Thief fail) is brilliant.

On the Maiden...

It's just one more thing that shows how much of a creep Zig-Zag is. It's a pity it wasn't finished, but I love the animation during "A bountiful maiden from... Mom.... bass....ahh....." I only noticed it after showing my presentation group some clips, but the next shot after you see the Maiden's eyelash has King Nod batting his eyelashes with this hilarious expression.

By this time, do I even need to say what their reactions were?
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Seemed to work for Calvert! I'm amazed at how TV-quality their versions of his shots like Zigzag comforting King Nod are, and yet they WORK. Because the boards/pencils were good.

So wait, you need the discs you're sending me now back? Okay .. can do ...


So, I've officially created a new piece of animation for this film - I've reanimated Tack's mouth as he says his name is Tack.

So that he's no longer saying anything, of course.


I went frame by frame and did a new mouth on him. Clearly I'm insane.


=D Look for more surprises in this cut as I continue to be insane!
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Wow, nice details, then. I did find it annoying that you had to go to storyboards in a few places that should have been left alone. The shot of Yum-Yum arranging flowers into a heart is really important because it complements Tack's work with the shoe. Same thing for the shot of her breaking all her shoes right after Tack is making a cat's cradle image of her. (although, the rest of that Yum-Yum scene kind of doesn't fit in since it doesn't really have a payoff unless something is missing.. I kind of think it would have been better with just a fade-in on Yum-Yum breaking up the shoes and going to sleep). I just hate how a lot of the real subtle stuff just went over their heads. It seems like nearly everything in the film has a "balance" in terms of having a payoff.

By the way, I listened closely to the music you can finally hear under Zig-Zag's "milk and honeyed land" speech. It sounds like church organ music... I guess it's making fun of Zig-Zag's "sermon"

Oh, I stitched this together:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/goldencitypanorama-sm.jpg

Here's the very, very large version: http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/goldencitypanorama-lg.jpg


One question... I want to include a note with all the DVD-R's I'm giving away with who to contact at Disney. Do you have any sort of address or phone number I should include?
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Nice stitching! I stitched that one a bit back, but my computer crashed just as I was finishing, never got to save it. So thanks! =D


Who to contact at Disney ... geez ... um ... well, there's Don Hahn, but ... well ... I've got respect for the guy and he's #2 there now and VERY busy, I'd rather not have a million people bug him with emails, that's why I'm not bugging him myself even!

Maybe if a lot of people contacted him at once, with a single letter?


Mm.




EDIT:


I'm officially insane. I thought a shot of Yumyum would work better if she blinked in it. So I animated the blink.
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Boxers or briefs?

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/zzboxers.jpg
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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The insanity continues ...

I created an entirely new animated shot .... reused footage of Tack smelling something funny, put it on a new background, and animated a pipe (representing The Thief) shuddering and jangling around in the window.

This replaces a storyboard of the pipe coming into view in the window.



EDIT: Did another few insane shots ... I put some storyboards of Yumyum's hands on a multiplane camera, with a long rolling background, moving to represent the 360 degree shot that Dick intended. Then did some shots of Yumyum hidden behind flowers, which go from pencil to color ... The disparate shots all link up into each other now, and I hope it will show what Dick wanted here in a jazzier and less confusing way.

I haven't seen any of these shots in motion yet, no idea if they actually worked. But I think I'm done for the night, and I'll find out tomorrow ....
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Happy Birthday. ^ ^

My gosh, so much action going on and my hands are tied by this anatomy project I have to present tomorrow.

Anyway, while I have a minute --- are you actually going to switch the first two shots of Tack sleeping for the final cut? I wish you wouldn't ... it does create a big continuity problem, as his position changes quite a bit from the end of the first shot to the second, and he also picks up his hammer (it's laying on the floor in the first shot) and is holding it in the shot where the Thief walks in. It really DOES matter which order the scenes are in. Also, introducing his character with the thumb hit highlights his "cuteness" and the vulnerable aspect he starts out with, true, but the shot of him threading a needle works a lot better to introduce him as a *Cobbler* -- he isn't just a bumbling bumpkin. I dunno. I really like the scene the way it appears in the workprint, needle-threading first...and I'm in a pouty mood today anyway.

Meanwhile, have I mentioned how much I LOVE Zig-Zag's feet after he steps on that tack in the street?
Also, be sure to check them out when he says "And now, oh greatest of the great," in the Maiden from Mombasa scene. His right foot curls around the steps of King Nod's platform. Love that. I just thought I'd mention it....
Surprised, aren't you? I knew you would be.
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Sorry Elly. Don't mean to make sad.

I know the continuity is better that way.

But ..


1. Calvert screwed the shot up with a dissolve, in from The Golden City. There's no way to replicate that, and it's good to use a zoom in on The Golden City leading into Tack's first shot, as it matches the rest of my editing.

2. The music and sound effects go with the "thumb hit" shot.

3. The "needle threading" shot is only pencil test for the introduction of a major character. I did something really cool with it, but not cool enough.

4. Your average viewer won't notice.


Doing it the other way round would be a large amount of work for a lesser result.


As I said, sorry ...
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I'm pleased to say that all the new shots look great, and achieve more than the desired effect. =D

Finally, Yumyum's intro, and the Tack/Yumyum getting to know scene, is all it ought to be. The cuts to storyboards are now very few - just at the end of the first scene and the beginning of the second.

The shot of the pipe outside the window I'm especially happy with, because it looks like a Williams shot in a mass of Calvert shots .... which is really nice, that an invented shot looks better than the rest of the sequence.

And the shot of Yumyum does look better when she's blinking.

I have an idea for another shot to entirely reanimate, of the Nurse walking out of the room. I think I can do it, and that it's worth doing.
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Ahh, so it's Calvert's fault, not yours. *Grins*

Actually, I just popped in my Miramax DVD and I'd forgotten, but half the scene where Tack hammers his thumb was cut out anyway, so... I suppose there's nowhere to go but up even if the scenes are swapped 'round. So I suppose I forgive you.

But at any rate, I'm really excited to see what you've got! The clangity bangity pipe! Squeal!
Surprised, aren't you? I knew you would be.
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Oh yeah, you're going to cut out the bit with the nurse angrily pushing Yum-Yum out of the room away from Tack, right?

I hate how that was added since she isn't indignant like that anywhere else in the film... and Tack just fixed her glasses. It doesn't help that the animation of Yum-Yum being pushed away is laughably awkward. It's wonderful how in the original, it's never made an issue of "class differences" between Yum-Yum and Tack. Enough of that stupid cliche!
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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>>Actually, I just popped in my Miramax DVD and I'd forgotten, but half the scene where Tack hammers his thumb was cut out anyway, so... I suppose there's nowhere to go but up even if the scenes are swapped 'round. So I suppose I forgive you.

Ha ... if it's any consolation, I've restored the entirety of that shot at the end.

It's tough to work with what Calvert gave us sometimes ...

Because the shot is longer, it also works as an introduction of Tack. Better than what I did in the rough cut, just splitting shot 2 up into two parts!

>> Oh yeah, you're going to cut out the bit with the nurse angrily pushing Yum-Yum out of the room away from Tack, right? I hate how that was added since she isn't indignant like that anywhere else in the film... and Tack just fixed her glasses.

Nope, that's staying in I'm afraid, for various reasons. Mainly because it's a gag. Yeah, in Calvert's version he had this whole thing with the nurse disapproving of Tack and Yumyum, and coming round at the end, which was a laughably half-assed attempt at a character arc.

In my cut, I'm just including it as a gag, that the Nurse gets impatient with Yumyum and drags her away from Tack for her bath. No meaning beyond that. I've recut it to reflect that.

A few reasons ... obviously it's completed animation, which helps it be more entertaining than storyboards ...

But here's the MAIN REASON, I like the shot of the Nurse getting impatient (tapping her foot), it looks Williamsesque.

There's a reason for that. Check your Calvert work in progress DVD, and you'll see this shot in pencil test form, animated by Williams as far as I can tell.

Yep!

So I'd be cutting Williams animation, just that one shot. I think Williams intended something similar to the scene as it plays out in Calvert's cut, but less confrontational ... no pushing!


The gag adds a bit of business to an otherwise pretty straightforward scene, and it's finished animation so eh.




EDIT:

Watched the new bath scene, featuring the different Yumyum pencils. Works quite well actually. This scene will now have no more storyboards.

I'm undecided on the shot of Yumyum covering her nose. It works well to use the version without Meemee in it .... the animation is pretty decent ... but this version of the shot is shorter, so to extend it I had it run backwards at the end ... and it's obvious and lame.

Hm.





Not to be crude ... but whoever animated this version of the bath scene didn't bother to have the water/suds cover up Yumyum's torso - looks like she's out of the water at the beginning of shot 2, and all of shot 1 is okay but questionable. I assume they would have done something clever to avoid showing anything.





The first Yumyum/Tack "getting to know you" scene is missing from my AVI of the workprint due to some sort of data error. Is this true for everyone else too?

Not a problem as I can get it from the Stanch workprint, but eh.
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"The water's getting cold..."

That bit of the Emule workprint is screwy for me too. Actually, I'm glad it's NOT just mine -- I thought it was and that was annoying. I feel better now.

Surprised, aren't you? I knew you would be.
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All right then. Not just me. Feel better.




It's no problem since all I need is a couple storyboards from it, and the audio.



There are a lot of pops and errors in the audio on the Emule workprint too ... mostly during Zigzag's lines .... interesting because in my cut, I'm not USING most of Zigzag's lines from the workprint. So that works out okay.


=D


Clearly no matter how good the quality of the workprint gets, this is still the one to watch ... as any errors that come up, I can fix 'em ...

Apart from the better picture and sound quality and finished shots .... heh.





Anyway.


I've got the shot of Yumyum holding her nose working a bit better now.

I'm running it reverse in heavy slow motion, and then using a trick I developed for some Calvert shots of the One Eye War machine on fire that were animated on threes which I needed on ones ... I place other frames over it at lower opacity so each shot blends into the other, giving the impression of more inbetweens than are there.


The shot isn't great, but the timing on it is perfect.
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Ok, I need advice. For our presentation, I need to make a 2 minute trailer that basically blows the class away.

I re-edited the opening narration to fit within a minute, which will have film clips set against it.

"It is written that the world which we see is an outward and visible dream of an inward and invisible reality"
"Once upon a time, there was a golden city. Atop the tallest minaret were three golden balls. The ancients had prophesised that if the three golden balls were ever taken away, harmony would yield to discourse and the city would fall to destruction and death. But the mystics had also foretold that the city might be saved by the simplest soul with the smallest and simplest of things."
"There dwelt a lowly shoemaker - Tack the Cobbler"
"Also in the city - a thief..."

Here's a rough cut of the soundtrack... I'm using the "One-Eye's Dance" music as filler since the 2nd half will be more dialogue clips, but with the music overlaid quietly:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/thieftrailertemp.wav

Just an idea of what's going on top of the sound... the first half with the narration is more of the mystical quality. Once "a thief" comes up, it's the slapstick stuff. The music cue after "destruction and death" will have 4-5 fade-in/fade-out bits of the one-eye's march. Any suggestions on what to put on top of the track (or if I should add stuff)?
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Guess you can't use my trailer since it has to be your own work for this project ... but feel free to crib from it.

All I did with mine was go through my hard drive copy of the Miramax cut, and grab any shot I felt was great in that trailer type way.

Eh ...


It's a shame to cut down:

"In the city there dwelt a lowly shoemaker, who was known as Tack the Cobbler. Also in the city, existed a Thief. Who shall be ... nameless."

Why not cut the bit about the balls instead?
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Guess you can't use my trailer since it has to be your own work for this project ... but feel free to crib from it.

All I did with mine was go through my hard drive copy of the Miramax cut, and grab any shot I felt was great in that trailer type way.

Eh ...


It's a shame to cut down:

"In the city there dwelt a lowly shoemaker, who was known as Tack the Cobbler. Also in the city, existed a Thief. Who shall be ... nameless."

Why not cut the bit about the balls instead?


Well, I thought about editing down your trailer, but I really want that narration to set the tone. If I had it my way, I'd just show yours complete, but my group wants something that has some stuff on the plot and is only 2 minutes long. I kind of feel low about what I'm doing since your trailer is awesome, but I guess it's worth this compromise to do a class presentation on this.


Oh, I looked back at the Calvert WIP and saw what you mentioned. Also, Tack looks like he needs more sleep in those poorly drawn storyboards.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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The narration is great, but is such a soft sell. Trailers need to be HUGE. That's why I used the HUGE Scheherezade music.

You could start subtle and then go HUGE.

Music is always key.
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Og, you really might consider cutting the "It is written that the world which we see is an outward and visible dream of an inward and invisible reality"...

It's poetic, but abstract, and I don't think you're getting as much bang for your buck as you should be in a two-minute trailer. Also, you might try to snip out "harmony would yield to discord and..." to simply say "if the three golden balls were ever taken away, the city would fall to destruction and death." At any rate, you really need the "in the city" before "there dwelt a lowly shoemaker." It's a pretty painful sentence fragment otherwise.

I like the idea of using so much of the original narration, but for this movie deserves a trailer that shows off some of the amazing animation, which kind of needs big music.

Surprised, aren't you? I knew you would be.
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
The narration is great, but is such a soft sell. Trailers need to be HUGE. That's why I used the HUGE Scheherezade music.

You could start subtle and then go HUGE.


You know, you're right. I'm re-ripping the DVD-R since I have to do this in 720x480 anyways (I only have the GBS-TV 320x240 master on my HD).

I was finding it hard to really speed up things anyways. Although, I was going to cross-dissolve the last part of the finished "helicopter over the mountains" shot over the shot going into Zig-Zag's tower with the whole reality section... but it's just too slow. I'm just going to start with about 10 seconds of Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis and then let Scheherazade boom in.

Oh, I found a good piece of music that you might be able to use for both the polo game and the war machine (different parts of the track):

It's Vaughan Williams' "The Wasps' Overture" - http://www.ctufilms.com/waspsoverture.mp3
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Just so ya know, I haven't dropped dead or anything, just been busy with personal stuff this week. Freakin adjuster is basically tearing me a new one, so things have been busy and stressful for me. Thank God I've sicked my attorney on his ass. hehe. I'm 1/2 way through the transcription of "Animating Art" , and started doing stuff with the notes earlier today. Blockbuser online sent me the barebones version of Roger Rabbit (which I already have) so I mailed it back and will hopefully get the 2nd disk with the special I need off it sometime this week (unless they're just stupid). Gonna work and try and finish this transciption of Animating Art this weekend (hopefully things won't come up this weekend like they did during the past week).

BTW, Happy belated Birthday, Gar. I just turned 27 myself back in early March. lol.

Will hopefully get something accomplished this weekend.....

R

I've got better things to do tonight than die! - Springer, Transformers the Movie

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Oh... I just found that the first dissolve in the mountain flyover part re-uses the background frames during that first dissolve. If you cut out 43 frames (starting with the first frame of the One-Eyes dissolving in on the first dissolve), there is no visible jump. Might even be 44 since it's on twos.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick