logo Sign In

The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 22

Author
Time
Post link
"Hijacking?" Pish-tosh! =) This thread is huge, it contains multitudes. Do what you wish in the name of fun!


And Chris - wow! Amazing! I'll write these people, try to get copies.

The sound cuts off during Jessica, so I can't hear her. =(

So where's the Paul Reubens Roger? That's gotta be better than Charles Fleischer!



Yeah, I'm spending the night reading old Jim Hill articles. This one's interesting, because it suggests a Roger Rabbit version of the Tower of Terror, where you would have heard Richard Williams' Droopy voice, a la the movie. Hm.

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/article.php?id=834
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
Perhaps so. I've gotta finish my movie first before any hanging occurs, though.

Sorry about minorly hijacking the thread.

That's OK. I was surprised last week to see a copy of the "Toledo City Paper" and see there is a small filmmaker's group in town I might like to join.

http://www.toledofilmmakers.com/

Felt like I just did a shameless plug.
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
Author
Time
Post link
I'll probably get into that next year, it sounds like a good time. And the film community in BG can get a little claustrophobic.

You should come down to the film festival, April 21-23. I think the screenings will actually be on the 22nd, maybe the 23rd, maybe both. I honestly can't remember. Anyway, my little flick will be screened and (I'm reasonably sure) we're going to have Michael J. Nelson of Mystery Science Theater 3000 as a guest judge and speaker.

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

Author
Time
Post link
Yeah, I'm debating whether or not to ask him to play a bit role for a project I'm going to embark on over the next couple years, but I don't want to reveal the title because it could be easily swept out from under me. I will say that I would be creating a "Crazy Ralph" (Friday the 13th) type of character for him to play, and that the flick would be a musical, and that there are zombies.

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

Author
Time
Post link
Hey, I've had a zombie musical in gestation for 5 years. Get your own horse! =D
Author
Time
Post link
I think we have slightly different ideas in mind

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

Author
Time
Post link
Man, all the films Dick turned down because of the Thief. I would have loved to see Richard Williams do Lord of the Rings ... or Beauty and the Beast ...



JIM HILL WRITES:

Disney Feature Animation saw "B & B" as a way to keep the London-based "Roger Rabbit" production team busy & intact. Which is why -- initially -- Disney tried to recruit "WFRR" 's animation director, Richard Williams, to direct "Beauty & the Beast."

And -- for a while there -- Richard reportedly did give some semi-serious thought to directing "B & B." But then Williams realized that -- if he put in the time necessary to complete Disney's "Beauty & the Beast" -- that would be another four years away from working on his own dream project, "The Cobbler & the Thief." A traditionally animated epic that -- at that time -- Richard had already been working on for over 20 years.

Realizing that it was really time that he got back to work cobbling together "Cobbler," Williams turned down Disney's offer. Which is why the powers-that-be at WDFA eventually recruited Richard Purdum -- a well respected British animator who ran his own studio in London -- to serve as "Beauty & the Beast" 's director.





And Christ - it's 5:43 AM here and I'm typing and a lot of people are up. Must be time zones. It's a normal early hour on the east coast, I guess ....

I should sleep.
Author
Time
Post link
That sketch of Zig-Zag you sent me... it's indeed from Williams and it was even photographed under his watch. Obviously, it's from the shot of him getting Phido to jump through the fire hoop.

"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
Author
Time
Post link
Interesting to hear that he was approached for Beauty and the Beast. That would've been interesting. Though I love the film as it is.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
"Hijacking?" Pish-tosh! =) This thread is huge, it contains multitudes. Do what you wish in the name of fun!


And Chris - wow! Amazing! I'll write these people, try to get copies.

Glad to help out. I remember seeing this months back but haven't thought about it until you pointed it out.
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
I think we have slightly different ideas in mind

Interesting the kind of things that pop up in Northwest Ohio.

We really don't get much noice here as the rest of Ohio might. Best that has happened up here recently is a bill that was passed by the governor that will allow the merging of the Unviersity of Toledo and the Medical University of Ohio into one whole entity (of which will retain the UT name). It will be the thrid largest university in Ohio and one of 17 public universities in the country offering colleges of business, education, engineering, law, medicine and pharmacy. Can't say if this'll halp out the Department of Theatre, Film and Dance (rather they set up an animation workshop if they could hire in some animation professors for such a course, their 16mm Oxberry animation stand is just collecting dust unless they haven't already threw it out).

I like to hope one day that Toledo could become "The Entertainment Capital of the State" (something I heard once on The Simpsons, and I like to think Cleveland owns that title currently).
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
Author
Time
Post link
Tahir Shah writes:


Of course we all think of Dick W.
very often. he was a big part of my childhood tand the fact that he and
my father parted ways was something that has always left me very sad.
Nothing would make me happier than to re-establish a link with him or
with Alex, who I remember coming as a small child to our home, Langton.
Author
Time
Post link

BETH HANNAN WRITES:
I've just been reading with great interest about your project! I check
occasionally around the internet to see if anything is being done.

Anyway, I worked in the Trace & Paint department on Thief and Cobbler
doing cel painting in Camden in London. I only worked for the last year
of the production or so, was one of the last people hired and made it
through a round of firings - before of course we were all sacked on
that Friday (just looked it up in my old diary, it was Friday, May 15,
1992). We were told that morning that it would be the last day, I think
we must have worked in the morning, can't really remember and then all
went for a few drinks at lunch, when we returned were told to clear
out. Someone laid out some cels that we took and I grabbed all the
colour models I had at my desk and of course my brushes and that was
it.
We had a company party some weeks later and I was given my production
jacket (others had received theirs months before, but I was late into
the project so wasn't sure if I would get one at all - I was very happy
to get it).
The Trace & Paint was located in a different building from the
animators but we did get to see the rushes twice a week I think it was,
we were to report to that building first for the rushes and then go
back to our building a few blocks away after.
Anyway, don't know if any of that interests you! But like I said I do
have colour models that if you were interested in I could attempt to
scan (they might be bigger than my scanner though).
I have:
Vizier Zig Zag - dark colours
Nanny - normal
Princess
Eunuch
String (cobbler hands and strings formed into princess face)
King
Courtiers (Goblet, Gopher, Slap and Tickle)
a very small cobbler leading a camel with eunuchs carrying a tent
Thief - normal
Thief - moonlight
Cobbler
Another one that isn't labeled - can't remember it's name

those are all in color and I also have a photocopied Cobbler - shadow

I don't have any contacts with anyone I worked with unfortunately, and
I can hardly remember them! I do remember one German woman whose
husband animated, some Irish guys, some Australians possibly?
Author
Time
Post link
I was taught by a lady called miriam who was an animator on the the Thief, but I am ahving a tough time tracking her down, especially as I can't remeber her surname. Perhaps one of your contacts might remeber who she is if you mention her name.

BTW, I live very near to Camden and hang there regularly. If you gave me some addresses maybe I could go and take photos for you or something.

War does not make one great.

Author
Time
Post link
I'll see what I can find out.


I'm posting the Roy Naisbitt phone conversation finally, and the first phone convo with Alex Williams.


LATER. FORGOT ORANGECOW.ORG IS USELESS FOR BIG FILES NOW.




Off topic but animated:

Jaime Weinman draws on an old post by Greg Duffell to give us these scene for scene breakdowns of who animated what in some great Bugs cartoons. Every scene in Rabbit of Seville is a classic, so credit where credit is due!

http://zvbxrpl.blogspot.com/2006/02/wb-animation-rabbit-of-seville.html
http://zvbxrpl.blogspot.com/2006/02/wb-animation-hillbilly-hare.html

Author
Time
Post link
What a horrible day I've had.


I've learned I'll be kicked out of where I'm living (failure to pay rent) ... I had a job interview but couldn't get there by bus - I forgot my wallet at home and wound up broke, in a random part of town, standing in the rain for three hours waiting for buses that never came.


I missed the interview, of course.


But then I get home, and what's there to cheer me up but a package from Roy Naisbitt!

Inside was a VHS tape containing some incredibly rare and wonderful Thief stuff.



So that cheered me up. =)


I can't play a PAL VHS tape on my system of course .... but I do have a varispeed SVHS deck, which can scan through the footage, kind of. I can see the image in black and white (slightly sped up or slowed down), and hear the audio sped up or slowed down.

So of course I had to check out what's on this tape.


Anyone in LA have a PAL conversion VHS deck I could look at this on?

Guess I'm gonna put this tape back in the mail and send it to Babyhum to do his converting wonders on.



Here's what it is, though - FASCINATING STUFF I'll add ...


TWO editions of Clapperboard from 1969 or so (!) .... a very young Richard Williams talks about the Nasrudin film at great length - this is already fascinating from what I can make out. No moving Nasrudin footage but lots of concept art. It's obviously the exact same film - he shows the brigands and the buddha ruby. Chief Roofless is evident in a pose seen later on a Cannes poster. Sgt Hook "It's a caravan!" is also there. We see Zigzag as "Anwar the Grand Vizier", with his vulture "Brutay." The artwork is identical to Thief concept artwork which showed up much later, and Zigzag is as we know him. Some time is dedicated to showing Richard animating a shot of a brigand laughing (which is in the film, in revised form). A couple of clips from The Little Island are shown which I haven't seen before ... introducing the characters "Truth, Beauty, and Good." The clip seen much later in I Drew Roger Rabbit is shown, except longer. He's shown working on A Christmas Carol, which is excerpted at length. Similar clips are shown as in the later Thames doc.

My, my. Even if I can't play this, I'm gonna try to capture the audio from this so I can hear it. Kind of futz it so I can see it before I send it to BH.

I wonder what the quality is like. The quality LOOKS good in B&W, but who knows.


Next up - an incredible reel of Williams commercials - and they ARE all Williams this time. Tony the Tiger, Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Goofy, The Pink Panther .... they're all there, along with all the commercials you've seen excerpts of in the documentaries about Richard. And the Harlem Globetrotters one seen in the Animator's Survival Kit! An incredible collection. Sometimes shows the animator's board saying "end."

Finally, we have an extended trailer for the original version of The Thief! This is a promo reel Warner Brothers put together, before they pulled out of the film. It's intended for advertisers, telling them how they plan to merchandise the film. A voice praises the unique style of the film as we see various clips.

"It's time for you to enter the Golden City and claim your share of the gold!"

The logo is the one with the Thief inside the "o" of Cobbler, as seen on the workprint. Again, wonder what the quality's like!

Most of the shots are of The Thief, pingponging from one place to another, and it does make the film look more esoterically artsy than sellable ... though it certainly is impressive! This is the only "trailer" I've ever seen for the true version of The Thief, perhaps the only one that existed ... and that, in and of itself, is fascinating.

But there are two clips here that didn't make it into the workprint! Brand new scenes not seen before.

Dig it ...

The first is of the Old Witch. The animation looks pretty weak here, like the shot of her grabbing her twitching knee in Calvert's cut. It's a closeup of her talking about what spell to use ... something like that. It was hard to make out the sound on a non-PAL VHS player!

The other shot looks beautiful even in B&W. It looks like a test shot of Tack, doing his little bumbling Charlie Chaplin walk around a part of the palace. Possibly test footage - it does resemble the walk Tack does in the workprint for "Go ... with Princess Yumyum." Except that he's alone in the shot.

My my my my my.

What a tape. Gonna get it converted. This'll be DVD number 10 in the set for those counting.


Speaking of Roy Naisbitt ...

I hate to do this to you AGAIN Patrick. Let me know if it's not ok and I'll figure something out, but this was honestly my third choice and last resort for getting these up. Next time I'll just put these files up on megaupload or something.

But here are the phone conversations, at last.

I'm going to sleep now (6:45 AM and got a job interview today so I'll get oooh 4 hours of sleep which is okay because I slept 4 hours earlier) ...

But I'll upload them here. If they're not here now they'll be here shortly.

Phone conversation with Roy Naisbitt. 1 hour 5 minutes. This is a conversation, not an interview, so I will come off as a brainless stuttering twat, but here it is, unedited.
This is a conversation already in progress, by the way - and he said some of the most interesting stuff when I wasn't recording.

http://ctufilms.completelyfreehosting.com/cobbler/roynaisbitt.mp3

Alex Williams, first phone conversation. Already in progress as we start. Same caveat applies - I sound like a moron. Also there's some personal information and phone #s in here but I'm too lazy to edit them out right now. Ignore them, they're not for you. The sound on this was originally unlistenable - I'd left the camera plugged in so all you heard was the RRRRRR of electrical interference. Noise redux in Audacity took care of that, so now the sound is just kind of crap quality. You can hear me all right, but Alex is a bit softer.

http://ctufilms.completelyfreehosting.com/cobbler/alex williams phone.mp3

If anyone can transcribe these, I'll owe you my first born.
Author
Time
Post link
I can't watch this thread any longer without participating at all - - it's making me too high-strung and excitable.

I could try my hand at typing out these two latest phone conversations, if you like. Just give me some time to study for my silly old exams on the side.
Surprised, aren't you? I knew you would be.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
What a horrible day I've had.


I've learned I'll be kicked out of where I'm living (failure to pay rent) ... I had a job interview but couldn't get there by bus - I forgot my wallet at home and wound up broke, in a random part of town, standing in the rain for three hours waiting for buses that never came.


I missed the interview, of course.


But then I get home, and what's there to cheer me up but a package from Roy Naisbitt!

Inside was a VHS tape containing some incredibly rare and wonderful Thief stuff.



So that cheered me up. =)


Thanks for the files!

Hopfully you can get your tape converted for your project. I wish I had that type of equipment personally.

Sad to hear of you day.

Perhaps this jpeg scan of my 16mm copy of "A Christmas Carol" should put you into another good mood!
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8726/film22lb.jpg

I only wish it wasn't as faded as it is, but it's all there.
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
Author
Time
Post link
Oh, I'm finally going to get Animating Art and I Drew Roger Rabbit reconstructed over the weekend. It turns out that I have to submit some sort of previous work for a film production course, so I'm hoping to use some of my re-editing works. Although, isn't the whole point to learn how to do that stuff?

The problem I was having with getting stuff synched has been solved... I found that I can overlay much, much cleaner now.

"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
Author
Time
Post link
Holy crap! Where'd you get that from, Chris? =D


Hey EllyDorado! Welcome to the thread. Any help here would be hot.


Looking forward to the reconstructions at last, Patrick.

Chris Boniface seems to be roughly done with his restorations of the workprint and Arabian Knight ... so he'll mail them tomorrow or thursday, and get to work on some more stuff.

So, excited to see that. If they're good, I'll finally be able to get started on the final cut of this thing.


Tahir Shah (Idries' son) has promised to send me a copy of the 1970 BBC documentary One Pair of Eyes: Dreamwalkers! ... Richard talks about the Nasrudin film at one point in this doc.

Now that's big news.


Meanwhile, Tony White writes:


Thanks for the new stuff... great!!! It was very good for me to hear
Roy Naisbitt's voice again after all these years. We used to get on
very well during some very fraught times. I will definitely write to
him and rekindle the friendship if possible. I always thought it
would be great to get Dick's own 'nine old men' of animation together
sometime... then you would hear some real stories! (s)

FYI: The Thief was definitely developed from the old Nasrudin
project. What happened was that Dick's old business partner, Omar Ali
Shar (brother of Sufi writer Idrie Shah... and [I think] also author
of the Nasrudin books] fell out with Dick in a very horrible way (over
matters I couldn't possibly put in writing) and so Dick decdide to
ditch everything they had done jointly in favor of a new project,
based on concept evolved from the original Nasrudin storyline and
characterization. That was the beginning of countless 'Thief'
scripts, many of which were co-written by numerous people. The break
from the old Nasrudin was purely a tactical distancing from Omar...
that is, avoiding intellectual property issues.

As I say, there's a lot that I can't say about what when on in those
days but, remember... I was Dick's own assistance for two years during
those transitional periods and worked alongside him in the same room.
I wasn't privvy to everything but I do know some things. Try reaching
Dick Purdom and see if he will tell you anything. He worked in the
same room as Dick for many years and although a tight-lipped kind of
guy, you might get something from him. His wife was (and probably
still is) Jill Thomas, who also worked for Dick as a commercials
producer. They are both very guarded types but you never know... they
might help. The studio in London used to be called 'Purdom
Productions' I believe.

OK, must get back to my book work now. Thanks for keeping me in the
loop, its great to have these things relived for me.

Best wishes,

Tony :^{)}=-
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Holy crap! Where'd you get that from, Chris? =D


That's from my personal film collection! I won it off eBay a few years ago (practically the only bidder on that). It was produced by ABC Media Concepts, which I assume was some division of ABC who probably made these prints available to schools or other organizations to show to their classes or such.

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8743/imag00021fa.jpg

Couldn't put the image here cause of it's size, but you can see what I've got!
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
Author
Time
Post link
That's really neat.


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5804/1659/1600/dick%27s%20oscars.jpg


HANS BACHER WRITES ON HIS BLOG:

that was right after richard williams, the animation
director of ROGER RABBIT, got his 2 academy awards.
we met for a very nostalgic lunch with him and some
of his family and took this picture afterwards.
there were only a few attendees, because most of the
animation crew was again spread all over the world.

front row - steve hickner, joe haidar, dick's mother,
dick, one of dick's daughters, vera lanpher, pat sito.
2.row - mark kausler, jaques mueller, dave spafford,
andreas deja, dorse lanpher.
3.row - james baxter, leroy (archives), debbie spafford,
carl bell
last row - alex williams, me, mark gordon-bates,
roger chiassom, tom sito, nik ranieri, joe ranft
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
That's really neat.
Thanks for enjoying it! Too bad I don't have any telecine equipment, or I'd be wanting to transfer my films to vid perfectly.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5804/1659/1600/dick%27s%20oscars.jpg


Kinda like spotting names here. I sometimes see Mark Kausler post on one of the forums I belong to, he's been in the biz for a number of decades now. Andreas Deja would go on to animate some of the famous characters in later Disney films of the 90's (ditto on Nik Ranieri). Not much to say about Tom Sito (other than he used to work at the Filmation sweatshop). I believe Joe Ranft though passed away last year in a car accident.

Didn't take too long for someone to do a Wiki entry on him!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Ranft

You know one of these days someone will do one for you or me.
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
Author
Time
Post link
A few real animation luminaries in there. But nicest to see Dick with his mother. Gained a real appreciation for her after seeing some of her amazing paintings on Alex Williams' wall.

Sad about Joe Ranft.


There IS an entry about me at the Star Wars Wiki, but they wouldn't let me copy it over to the real wiki. =)


And you KNOW that if you had a 16mm print of anything we didn't have a video copy of, we'd already be paying to have it transferred. Heh.



It's funny that Phido's original name was "Brutay." At the end, when Phido joins in eating Zigzag, Zigzag says "You too, Phido?" as a sort of translated "Et tu, Brute?" So the original line would have been much more obvious ... something like "You too, Brutay?"




Captured and fixing the audio from the Naisbitt PAL tape ... christ, on the Warner Bros. trailer they say Dick Williams created The Pink Panther ... how dumb can you be?

(It was Friz Freleng, for the record, but you knew that. Everyone knows that.)