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The Terminator (1984) - Original Theatrical Mono Preservation (Released) — Page 9

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Dek Rollins said:

This guy can help people looking for the mono mix.

thank you. i neded the sound effects for the ending scene where kyle and sarah are being chased by the terminator

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AndrewTheMan said:

Dek Rollins said:

This guy can help people looking for the mono mix.

thank you. i neded the sound effects for the ending scene where kyle and sarah are being chased by the terminator
(IN THE FACTORY)
the compressor that crushed the terminator and the explotion sound effect used when kyle blows the terminator to hell with the pipe bomb

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crissrudd4554 said:

AndrewTheMan said:

crissrudd4554 said:

AndrewTheMan said:

crissrudd4554 said:

AndrewTheMan said:

crissrudd4554 said:

I dont know if this has been discussed but there appears to be some slight differences in the mono mix included on the MGM DVDs and the mono mix included on the pre 2001 releases. This is mostly noticeable during the Police station massacre but it occurs in a few other scenes. For the sake of discussion I’ll refer to the mix on the MGM DVD as ‘MGM mono’ and the other mix as ‘standard mono’. Heres what Ive noticed so far.

  1. ‘Clinking’ noise when the store clerk pulls the Uzi 9mm off the shelf. This is missing on the standard mono and the 5.1 mix.
  2. Some machine gun fire heard in the background is missing during the police station massacre. First is when Traxler locks Sarah in his office. In the standard mono after he says ‘stay here’, we hear ‘ratatatatat tatat’ (closes door). In the MGM mono, we hear ‘stay here’ ‘ratatatatat’ (closes door). No ‘tatat’. Second is after the power is cut and it cuts to the officer in the interrogation room peaking through the blinds of the window and then runs to the door. Machine gun fire in the background when he runs to the door is missing on the MGM mono.
  3. When the Terminator cuts the power in the Police station, the sound of the emergency lights coming on is much louder on the MGM mono.
  4. A bit hard to notice but it sounds like some noise is missing when Reese rams the officer into the door of the interrogation room before knocking him out. The standard mono and 5.1 sound mostly identical in this instance.
  5. ‘Clinking’ noise when it cuts to Sarah crawling underneath Traxler’s desk to hide is present on MGM mono.
  6. On the standard mono, the sound of the Terminators motorcycle cuts in about a second before the fadeout to Reese and Sarah’s love scene cuts to the Terminator on the bike. On both the MGM mono and the 5.1 mix, this doesnt happen and the fadeout to the love scene just cuts to the Terminator on the bike.
  7. After Sarah goes ‘No! Kyle!’ but before she says ‘Come on!’ when he momentarily collapses after powering up the machines at Cyberdyne, on the MGM mono we can clearly hear a bang at the door (Terminator trying to get in). This is only faintly heard on the standard mono.

this is very useful

For a visual representation please check out the comparison video I shared a few posts ago.
I don’t believe the glass shattering into Cyberdyne was changed.

where the sound effets for the machines in cyberdyne changed too?

Some of them. The compactor is different. You mentioned this mix you’re making combines the mono and surround mix. May I ask how you intend to do this if you don’t have the mono sounds to use?? Me clarifying what was changed and what wasn’t isnt really gonna help.

i use youtube videos. this is my very first film im editing. i dont wish to bother you but some of the videos of the mono sounds are not on youtube, i do not own the mono DVD but i do own the VHS from the 80’s. im not a professional. i hope im not getting you upset.

Perhaps this guy could help.

Dek Rollins said:

You can’t find this or you can’t find the mono? If it’s just the mono, PM me.

the mono

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I have been looking at Terminator Quite a bit recently and I don’t know if there will be much interest in this.

But I am looking at doing a Faux Stereo of the Mono that adds in parts of missing music and sound effects where they are either absent or sound “tinny” or “hollow” this is not so much a revision but a sort of remix, that the thinking behind it is, bring the mono mix up a couple of notches in certain areas.

There is not all that much to do on it aside from a few problem areas.

Here is a video of the main part that I felt needed a remix and the video below gives you a taste of the current state of this part.

https://vimeo.com/266078430

Now you might say well it’s totally revisionist but It actually is only this part and a smattering of music restored (where sound was missing) that is actually present not fully realized i.e. you can’t hear it or has missing sound and the odd sound effect replaced. This part in the clip I posted is more of a one off compared to just restoring music.

What do you think of this idea?

Try and see past the point that it’s not quite finished but it’s close to being there.

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Owen Curtis said:

can someone send me a link to download this preservation please

I have not finished it yet.

This Part future remembered and the Infiltrator flashback are restoring music and remix sections

Preservation Parts are scattered throughout primarily to fix music. it’s around 7 or 8 total music issues of the soundtrack (Brad Fiedel) not being quite right. Perhaps a hint of Thunder.

As for any other Sound don’t have a proper list but parts that spring to mind are…

Teleport Arrival sound (have no desire to alter what is there but I would like for it to have some small amount of Bass at the apex)

When Reese reverses into the cop car in the alley this sounds a bit muted this may just need amplification or extra sound added for effect.

I’ll be looking at add in’s for the explosions but for again added bass or improved sound on these.

Changing… well added to the sound of Reese’s Pulse Rifle no other gun sound changed.

So the general idea is preserve the music score and fix those issues. Improve frequency range in the mix where it will count and give it a bit more oomph but without straying from the original sound effects if possible. I don’t want to change the sound of the film but supplement it with more range as and where possible.

I think really In summary it’s a way of extending the life span of the mono mix in the modern day and giving it more consistency but it is more focused on the music than anything else.

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well after listening again last night, It seems that someone else mixed the future war scenes, as they sound very different.

But across the whole mix it’s as though it has a really strong High Pass Filter.

I think the best approach will be to first Handle the Music and then look at any sound effects. It’s a real shame that it sounds the way it does. Not in terms of it’s content just that It was not done right.

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Hi, does anyone have the Mono mix please? (Another member was kind enough to share a 2.1 mix that contained the LFE from the 5.1 remix, but I was hoping someone would have the mono without the added LFE please?)

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Would really appreciate ANY help obtaining the mono mix!

Please don’t just say it’s one mySpleen. I’d like a way I can actually get it.

supersonic395 said:

Hi, does anyone have the Mono mix please? (Another member was kind enough to share a 2.1 mix that contained the LFE from the 5.1 remix, but I was hoping someone would have the mono without the added LFE please?)

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supersonic395 said:

Hi, does anyone have the Mono mix please? (Another member was kind enough to share a 2.1 mix that contained the LFE from the 5.1 remix, but I was hoping someone would have the mono without the added LFE please?)

I would also like to have the original FLAC file that Zeropc posted back when he started this thread in 2013. I have the same “2.1” version that you have, and you can easily delete the LFE channel from it, leaving only the original mono mix, but I don’t like that it’s been processed (converted from 44.1 kHz to 48 kHz). Also, it was encoded as a DTS-HD Master Audio file, which is a file that contains both a lossless (Master Audio) and lossy (core) version, but you can’t access the lossless version without a proprietary (not free) decoder. Without a decoder you just get the lossy core. I don’t know why he didn’t just encode it as a FLAC.

I PM’d Zeropc about a year and a half ago asking if he still has that file, but I never got a reply. Does anyone here still have a copy of the original file that Zeropc uploaded?

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i have the 1.1 version that was around other sites downmixed to 1.0 not sure if it was from a laserdisc

here’s to sugar on the strawberries.

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nedmerrill said:

i have the 1.1 version that was around other sites downmixed to 1.0 not sure if it was from a laserdisc

The mono mix with the LFE track added to it (it’s called “2.1” rather than “1.1” because the mono mix is duplicated on the second channel) used the file that Zeropc ripped from the LaserDisc. Whoever made it resampled the LD mono mix from 44.1 kHz to 48 kHz, added the LFE track from the remastered DVD/Blu-ray 5.1 mix (which is already 48 kHz), and encoded it to DTS-HD Master Audio. In my opinion, the LFE channel does not blend well with the mono mix.

If anyone has the 2.1 mix but doesn’t want the LFE channel, you don’t want to downmix it, because that will just integrate the LFE in with the mono mix on a single channel. You want to open it in an audio editor and delete the LFE channel (which is channel 3). In Audacity you would do that by clicking the “X” to the left of the channel you want to delete:

Audacity

You can also delete channel 2 if you want to, as it is merely a duplicate of channel 1, and deleting it will cut the file size in half. If you leave it as 2.0 and you have a 5.1 speaker setup, it will play in your front right and left speakers. If you delete channel 2, it will play in your center-channel speaker. If you only have a stereo speaker setup (2.0 or 2.1), it will play exactly the same regardless of whether it is 2.0 or 1.0.

Once you delete the unwanted channel(s), click File > Export Audio and save it as a WAV or FLAC (if you don’t want to introduce any loss).

In order to open a DTS file in Audacity you will need the FFmpeg Import/Export Library. Alternatively, you could convert it to WAV or FLAC before opening it in Audacity, for example, using Foobar2000 with a DTS decoder plugin. However, you’re only going to get the lossy core of the DTS file unless you decode it to WAV or FLAC using commercial software such as ArcSoft DTS Decoder.

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I’m still looking for Zeropc’s original 44.1 kHz FLAC file. Surely someone here must still have it, either in standalone form or muxed into a video.

A few days ago I ordered two Terminator DVDs: the original Hemdale / Image Entertainment release from 1998 and the MGM release from 2001, in order to extract their mono audio tracks (according to posts on this thread there are some differences between them). I also ordered the original Thorn EMI VHS release because “Hi-Fi” is printed on the sleeve. For those who don’t already know, VHS Hi-Fi is a very high quality analog audio format:

Both VHS Hi-Fi and Betamax Hi-Fi delivered flat full-range frequency response (20 Hz to 20 kHz), excellent 70 dB signal-to-noise ratio (in consumer space, second only to the compact disc), dynamic range of 90 dB, and professional audio-grade channel separation (more than 70 dB).

The sound quality of Hi-Fi VHS stereo is comparable to the quality of CD audio, particularly when recordings were made on high-end or professional VHS machines that have a manual audio recording level control. This high quality compared to other consumer audio recording formats such as compact cassette attracted the attention of amateur and hobbyist recording artists. Home recording enthusiasts occasionally recorded high quality stereo mixdowns and master recordings from multitrack audio tape onto consumer-level Hi-Fi VCRs.

I also ordered a JVC HR-D566U Hi-Fi VCR, which was JVC’s top of the line “prosumer” VCR in 1985. It weighs about 20 pounds and retailed for $900 back then. JVC was not only the inventor of the VHS format in 1976, but also the inventor of VHS Hi-Fi in 1984, so they set the standard. Assuming the VCR “Works Great!” as the seller claims, I’m hoping to get a high quality capture of the VHS audio.

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I thought about doing my own VHS audio transfers, but one single tracking error can ruin the whole thing .

here’s to sugar on the strawberries.

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I was just about to mention that. I’ve done a few Hi-Fi captures over the years. One way around the problem is to have a second copy of the movie. Odds are you’re never going to have dropouts in the same spot.

Also, sometimes a video/audio glitch is caused by particles stuck to a tape. Repeatedly rewinding and playing a problem spot can clear it up sometimes. Depending on the tape, you may have to minutely adjust the tracking to find the sweet spot where the Hi-Fi doesn’t drop out.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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The VHS tape I ordered doesn’t show any signs of being a former rental tape, and doesn’t look like it’s been used much (no visible wear on the label or clamshell case). I plan to clean the heads, capstan, pinch roller, etc., before using the VCR. Hopefully I’ll get lucky with the transfer. Having a second copy of the VHS tape is a good idea.

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The Thorn EMI tape has what has been called the Fake ‘Chace’ mix. This was apparently an early attempt to mix the film in stereo using the original mono elements. Some of the differences show such as the dialogue in the Police Station shootout being noticeably more louder and clearer. However the biggest letdown of the mix is the audio is the wrong pitch. By the early ‘90s this mix was dropped and they reverted back to the original mono until the surround mix was made for the Special Edition DVD.

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 (Edited)

The Thorn EMI tape has what has been called the Fake ‘Chace’ mix. This was apparently an early attempt to mix the film in stereo using the original mono elements. Some of the differences show such as the dialogue in the Police Station shootout being noticeably more louder and clearer. However the biggest letdown of the mix is the audio is the wrong pitch. By the early ‘90s this mix was dropped and they reverted back to the original mono until the surround mix was made for the Special Edition DVD. I know someone on FanRes had taken the Fake ‘Chace’ mix and synced it to the BD and had also pitched correct it. I don’t have the track myself but here’s a link to the thread.

https://forum.fanres.com/thread-589.html?highlight=Terminator+fake+Chace

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crissrudd4554 said:

The Thorn EMI tape has what has been called the Fake ‘Chace’ mix. This was apparently an early attempt to mix the film in stereo using the original mono elements. Some of the differences show such as the dialogue in the Police Station shootout being noticeably more louder and clearer. However the biggest letdown of the mix is the audio is the wrong pitch. By the early ‘90s this mix was dropped and they reverted back to the original mono until the surround mix was made for the Special Edition DVD. I know someone on FanRes had taken the Fake ‘Chace’ mix and synced it to the BD and had also pitched correct it. I don’t have the track myself but here’s a link to the thread.

https://forum.fanres.com/thread-589.html?highlight=Terminator+fake+Chace

Thanks for the information and the link. Converting from PAL speed/pitch to NTSC speed/pitch is no problem. Also, it sounds like that particular LD audio rip (actually, it sounds like it was an analog capture rather than a digital rip) had some issues:

As far as your capturing, I found it odd that the volume level on the right channel was nearly 2db higher on side A and about 1.5db higher on side B. Also, side B had some slight clipping on both channels, whereas side A had some slight clipping only on right channel. I adjusted the volume when syncing and evened the channels out but did nothing about the clipped audio.

Additionally, the capture was compressed to AC-3, which is a lossy codec.

I rented the Thorn EMI VHS tape dozens of times when I was a kid in the '80s, so it will be fun to see/hear that again when my tape and VCR arrives.

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I actually have the Thorn EMI VHS saved to a DVD if you’d like me to just pull the files.

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I don’t know why you’d need to rip the VHS audio if u have the LD audio. It sounds pretty good as is for mono.

here’s to sugar on the strawberries.

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nedmerrill said:

I don’t know why you’d need to rip the VHS audio if u have the LD audio. It sounds pretty good as is for mono.

As I mentioned earlier the Thorn EMI release had an early attempt at mixing the sound in stereo. The LD mono is still the superior mix but that earlier Fake ‘Chace’ mix as it’s been called might still be worth preserving.

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crissrudd4554 said:

I actually have the Thorn EMI VHS saved to a DVD if you’d like me to just pull the files.

Thanks for the offer. I plan to watch it on an actual VCR connected to my old standard definition CRT TV, and I want to capture the audio either way, but if it’s not too much trouble, I’d like to have the one you did as a point of comparison. If it turns out that the audio you captured sounds better than my stab at it, I’ll keep your version.

nedmerrill said:

I don’t know why you’d need to rip the VHS audio if u have the LD audio. It sounds pretty good as is for mono.

I’d like to have all of the released versions of the mono track, which is why I also ordered the Hemdale/Image and MGM DVD releases.

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MaximRecoil said:
Thanks for the offer. I plan to watch it on an actual VCR connected to my old standard definition CRT TV, and I want to capture the audio either way, but if it’s not too much trouble, I’d like to have the one you did as a point of comparison. If it turns out that the audio you captured sounds better than my stab at it, I’ll keep your version.

I didn’t actually capture it myself. A friend who used to copy tapes for my dad and I did it for me. Anyways the disc is actually at my other place so I’ll have to pop over there sometime this week to grab it.