I really love that restructure idea Neverar, specifically Finn already knowing about the tracking. I do wish there is a way though to retain Leia’s scenes before she is unconscious.
Because IMO it might be a little too much change between movies as well as the added difficulty of doing a flashback.
Really great ideas though, I like the way you think.
Cutting Leia’s scenes are exactly the opposite of what was needed in TFA, but here I think it makes sense. The story right now is too bogged down in what should be a simple pursuit/ticking clock plot, and Leia unfortunately contributes to this overcomplication.
However, there might be a way to start the movie right as the remnants of the Resistance flee the battle. We could establish in the crawl that most of the short range fighters on both sides have been destroyed, with essentially just Poe and Kylo left on the battlefield. As Poe and the last bomber manage to destroy the destroyer, Kylo strafes the cruiser and his escort blows up the bridge. We don’t see Leia get blown into space, since at that moment the fleet jumps to hyperspace.
I imagine this scene would have to be very chaotic, full of closeups and ships being blown up to make it seem more like a pitched battle than an ordered evacuation.
With the battle, I’m not sure about what shot to use for the pan down.
Another thing that needs addressing is the ‘cloaked binary beacon’. In the proposed edit this device is never explained and simply appears in Finn’s keeping after he wakes up. To fix this, the binary beacon could be placed in the deleted scene of the Rey hologram, where it could be seen resting on the bench beside Finn’s head. Notably, in TFA there’s only a brief glimpse of that area of the bench so I could even have it come into frame for just that second. Finn’s line ‘a cloaked binary beacon’ could be repurposed in this scene to make it clear. It’s a fairly simple fix and it highlights the strong friendship between Finn and Rey.
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man this sounds quite interesting neverar. how you come up with such creative ideas is beyond me. i’m looking forward to this.
Thanks Collipso! I just have so much fun coming up with these ideas, even if some may pass the edge of feasibility.
The biggest issue remaining with the pursuit plot to me is the fact that it seems like the First Order is pulling its punches to an insane degree. There’s no reason why the First Order can’t trap the Resistance fleet with their Star Destroyers, or send enough fighters to overwhelm them. So of course I’ve come up with something that is kind of audacious but might fit:
Establish that Snoke not only wants the Resistance destroyed, but also wants Kylo Ren to personally destroy Leia and complete his training since that was teased at the end of TFA. We see Kylo go against the Raddus practically alone, and Hux seems content to wait until the fleet runs out of fuel, so this theory fits what we see on screen.
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How would you establish Snoke wants him to kill Leia personally? You’d run into the issue of why his wingmen fired on the bridge if he was meant to do it, and also if that they can sense that Leia isn’t dead or not, because they probably would assume she was otherwise.
EDIT: Also, that if Snoke wants him to kill Leia personally, then later is content with all of the rebels, including Leia, die like sitting ducks in the transports. Maybe that killing Rey would suffice? But you’d still need to make that clear, and explain why his wingmen destroyed the bridge if that was Kylo’s task.
I imagine that the individual soldiers on both sides of this battle aren’t briefed on the plan and all of its reasons (themes!). His wingmen were just told to follow Kylo’s lead, and he was locked onto the bridge. Besides, we need Leia unconscious because movie.
It also might be that Snoke is pitting Hux and Kylo against each other like it was implied in TFA, and now that Kylo has failed to take out Leia he’s finally given the task to Hux, with Rey as an acceptable substitute to prove his loyalty if not ‘complete his training’.
That’s my thinking.
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Combining the space battles how you described, seems like it could be really awesome.
I should probably clarify why I want to cut so much Leia material - simply put, it doesn’t directly relate to our heroes (Rey and Finn), which means that things like Leia using the Force or even Poe’s scenes with Leia are beside the point when the movie is already on the long side.
There’s a very instructional segment in the Lord of the Rings Appendices about this problem, and the solution that they found was to cut anything that wasn’t directly related to Frodo, with very few exceptions. I think this is a good rule of thumb in this case.
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I’d personally be pretty hesitant about cutting out a lot of Leia’s scenes, but I appreciate that you pulled the idea from a project such as LOTR. It makes sense, and like I say about a lot of these ideas, you kind of have to see it to see how effective it would be.
I also had some thoughts on this question that I wanted to share, “Why doesn’t the FO kill the rebels more efficiently?” I think there are two ideas for this, and it could be a combination of both.
Either A, your recent idea, that Snoke wants Kylo to kill Leia himself. I think this could work very well if it is possible to clarify. It’s character motivated, which is a plus. I have already mentioned the things that would need to be addressed, but I think it would be good to actually write out what needs to be done to clarify this idea in the film and how to do that.
and/or B, put more emphasis on Hux’s incompetency. Honestly, I think this is the reason why the FO is incompetent in the film, as-is. The dynamic created between Hux and Cannady, even Peavy to an extent, shows that Hux is not an experienced leader. When Peavy is telling Hux about the range issue, maybe we could hear Peavy say something like, “We could…” before Hux cuts him off, deciding to just bide their time. It helps show the FO could kill them, but Hux is preventing that from happening because of his own arrogance. This also would be a character motivated decision, since Hux kind of has his own leadership journey like Poe does. Although if you take away some of Poe’s scenes, would that character arc be cut as well?
Another idea could be to use console shots within the Star Destroyer to imply their means of tracking ships through hyperspace. Maybe they require a certain amount of time to be close to a ship to be able to scan its computers and know it’s next destination. Or learn a ships “signature” per se, so they can track it’s whereabouts, like tracing a phone call for example. Maybe during the opening battle, we can keep cutting back and forth until this timer is complete. It would help make clear that if Poe hadn’t engaged the dreadnought, they wouldn’t have been able to follow them in the first place. In a way, it would mirror Poe’s booster engine charging as well. The movie never explains how they were able to track them, so this could be one possible method. That is the “string” Hux is talking about.
It does bring into question, though, if Finn is aware of the hyperspace tracking technology, why does he say that it is impossible when Leia realizes they have tracked them? He clearly knows where the tracker is on the Supremacy. Maybe he didn’t realize they just got out of a battle, so in his mind there is no way they would be able to know where they are.
These are the questions I’ve been fighting with as well all day.
In regards to the two options of the FO’s pulled punches, I prefer the ‘Kylo’s Mission’ angle, since it doesn’t present the First Order as incompetent. In the end, I expect that there will remain some of Hux’s incompetence, but it’s far better for the audience to wonder ‘What is the crazy space wizard’s plan?’ rather than ‘Why is Hux still in charge of anything?’.
I think Poe’s character arc would still work even with much of the first scenes truncated or eliminated.
The Hyperspace Tracking plot is the most intractable problem right now. With the current idea of cutting so many scenes in the beginning of the movie, Leia and Finn discussing the impossibility of the tracking would be cut in favor of having Finn know about this technology and revealing its existence to Rose. The issue which immediately arises is that he should have brought this to Leia’s/Holdo’s attention immediately upon learning that they were running from the First Order. Instead he brings this to Poe’s attention, but Poe decides against telling Holdo.
One tantalizing idea is that the ‘cloaked’ binary beacon is not so cloaked as the Resistance thinks. Combined with the idea of Rey being the one who gave the beacon to Finn on the sly, the scenes could easily be reworked to make it seem like Finn is trying to get the beacon off the ship to protect it from further tracking. Of course this falls apart when they make their plan to disable the tracker, since all they need to do is get the beacon off the ship to solve the problem.
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One more idea for the pile:
After the Praetorean guard fight, move up Holdo’s sacrifice so that the collision happens as Rey moves to take Kylo’s hand and presumably join him. There is no scuffle over the lightsaber, and it doesn’t split in half (this would mean removing the broken lightsaber shot from the end of the movie as well, dependent on Ep 9’s treatment of the subject).
After the collision and Finn/Rose escaping the wreckage with their deleted scene of going where they belong, then cut to Luke and Yoda. Their conversation happens in the shadow of Rey’s decision to presumably join Kylo and destroy everything, and the scenes together much more strongly imply a new direction for the trilogy. Then when Luke arrives to face Kylo and defeat him through his trickery, it is implied that he is more clearly fighting for Rey than before.
Another edit I’d like to try is to cut Finn and Rose arriving at the base. Cut from the foxes racing through the closing door to the Resistance fighters setting up their CRT screens.
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Do you think that would take away from Rey’s agency in that moment? Speaking of the saber, a lot of people have been speculating that Rey will likely build a new lightsaber using the pieces.
Placing the Luke/Yoda scene there is an interesting idea, though I wonder if it would affect the pacing any?
So you would cut them crash landing into the base and next time we see them, they are already inside, so we just assume they made it back to the Resistance in between scenes?
Do you think that would take away from Rey’s agency in that moment? Speaking of the saber, a lot of people have been speculating that Rey will likely build a new lightsaber using the pieces.
It’s a frustrating thing, the whole throne room finale. The will she/won’t she join Kylo was the most interesting thing for a lot of people going into this movie, due to how it actually makes some sense and was heavily implied in the trailer. But when the moment happens and it’s really just a trick for her to go for the lightsaber, I can’t help but feel like the movie is giving the finger to that whole concept. It’s fine if Rey doesn’t have any intention of joining Kylo, but it’s more interesting for her character if it’s a genuine temptation.
Specifically about her agency, I think it’s well established that she will fight to the death against someone like Snoke. This is something that he explicitly says; it is why she must die. The fact that she ultimately runs away after the hyperspace collision means that she’s already decided against joining Kylo, and her closing the door of the Falcon in the final scene would serve just as well for her ultimate rejection of his offer. In short, Rey’s alliance is known after the throne room scene in the original film, making it a suitable end to the movie. But by delaying this moment, it gives more meaning to the last 20 minutes.
You do bring up the issue of the saber though, which is a big issue. The only thing I can think of right now is to have a flashback to the throne room during the Kylo/Luke duel. When Luke says ‘I will not be the last Jedi’, have their grapple for the saber and it breaking, then cut to Rey concentrating on lifting the rocks. Who knows if that has any chance of working though.
Placing the Luke/Yoda scene there is an interesting idea, though I wonder if it would affect the pacing any?
It’s a strange scene which begins on the Force theme while being quite nihilistic. I think it would thematically work right after Kylo talks of tearing everything down, as everything is in tatters.
So you would cut them crash landing into the base and next time we see them, they are already inside, so we just assume they made it back to the Resistance in between scenes?
Yep. It’s a strange bit since it manufactures some drama that doesn’t follow from the previous scene. We assume that Finn and Rose got away in the confusion without being followed, but here they are chased by TIEs and they recklessly endanger many lives by crashing into their own base. There’s nothing really lost by cutting this part in my opinion, and it will help to speed the end of the movie.
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I see where you’re coming from. I always felt she was genuinely tempted, and didn’t really make her decision until she stretched out for the saber, debating on what she should do as her hand raised. I mean, she definitely considered it as she was standing there.
Eh, I really don’t think flashing back to that would really work. The only other thing I could think of would be that the lightsaber somehow got damaged during the kamikaze. People cold infer that maybe but it might seem weird since it was in Kylo’s hand.
I don’t know exactly where the Luke/Yoda scene would fit in your version, it’s hard for me to picture it somewhere inbetween the kamikaze and when Kylo wakes back up, but at the very least I think it would still have that same effect you’re going for if you put it where both Darthrush and Hal decided to put in, in between Kylo waking up and Leia staring out the door on Crait.
Speaking of which, even if you cut Finn and Rose landing in the base, you gotta keep those great shots of Leia looking out on Crait.
Yeah, a few Resistance members definitely have a few close calls with their ship, but you do lose “Finn! Rose! You’re not dead!” and Poe scratching BB-8’s belly. Also the little moment Finn and Rose realize just how many people they have lost, too. I guess besides that, the important the you will lose is Finn and Rose reuniting with Poe and the Resistance. It might be a little weird that we don’t see anyone acknowledge that reunion, but it could work without it too. Just gotta try it I guess.
Do you think that would take away from Rey’s agency in that moment? Speaking of the saber, a lot of people have been speculating that Rey will likely build a new lightsaber using the pieces.
Placing the Luke/Yoda scene there is an interesting idea, though I wonder if it would affect the pacing any?
So you would cut them crash landing into the base and next time we see them, they are already inside, so we just assume they made it back to the Resistance in between scenes?
Knowing how OT derivative the ST is, I can’t imagine her new lightsaber not being green.
Putting this here so I don’t forget it:
https://youtu.be/sGbxmsDFVnE?t=76
Concept: pan down from the crawl onto a starfield which matches this shot of the Falcon going to hyperspace. Proceed directly into Rey landing on Ahch-To.
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Nice concept.
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When you bumped this thread back up I went back through and looked at some of the different ideas you had.
There’s definitely a few I like, but there were some that were just ideas but didn’t have solid ideas for how to actually implement them yet. Coming back to it with fresh eyes has given me some ideas for at least two of them.
First, you had this idea about making Holdo a surviving New Republic Officer. No real simple method of implementation, but something like this could possibly work:
Poe: That’s Vice Admiral Holdo? The ‘Battle of Chiron Belt’ Admiral Holdo?
Alien Pilot: [subtitled] A Republic hero.
Poe: Not what I expected.
Alien Pilot: Poe…
This could be a simple approach that doesn’t require any set up edits within TFA. Definitely in the vein of how you have subtitles to the alien pirates in your TFA edit!
Another idea you had was to make the reason why the First Order doesn’t find a quick way to destroy the Resistance be primarily because of Snoke. Snoke wants Kylo Ren to complete his training by killing his mother. But once Kylo forms a connection to Rey and brings her before him, Snoke decides killing her instead will be a worthy enough sacrifice in order to complete his training, allowing Hux to destroy the remaining Resistance transports.
Here are some of the changes I thought of that could help imply this idea:
• When Kylo fumes in the elevator after his conversation with Snoke, have Snoke’s line “complete your training” echo in his mind, either right after we cut to the first shot of him in the elevator, or right before he smashes his helmet. Or you could have him hear it in his ship after he senses Leia on the bridge.
• When Hux recalls Kylo back to the Supremacy, change his line to something like, “I have orders from Snoke, we can’t cover you at this distance, return to the fleet.” His line starts during a wide shot of Kylo flying past the Raddus, so you don’t have to worry about Hux’s mouth lining up with the new dialogue if you start it early.
You can take a part of the line from earlier in the film. Hux, “I have orders from Supreme Leader Snoke himself…”
• Cut Hux asking his officer why they can’t destroy the fleet now. Just cut it shorter to something like, “Well, keep up the barrage. Let’s at least remind them we are still here.” Or even shorter to just “They won’t last long burning fuel like this. It’s only a matter of time.” Keeping the barrage line might help show Hux being a little frustrated that Snoke is making them wait.
Putting this here so I don’t forget it:
https://youtu.be/sGbxmsDFVnE?t=76
Concept: pan down from the crawl onto a starfield which matches this shot of the Falcon going to hyperspace. Proceed directly into Rey landing on Ahch-To.
I had the same idea. Here was my mockup (transition happens around 2:20) I like that it’s a fresh intro style that’s still Star Warsy.
https://vimeo.com/248649293
Putting this here so I don’t forget it:
https://youtu.be/sGbxmsDFVnE?t=76
Concept: pan down from the crawl onto a starfield which matches this shot of the Falcon going to hyperspace. Proceed directly into Rey landing on Ahch-To.
I had the same idea. Here was my mockup (transition happens around 2:20) I like that it’s a fresh intro style that’s still Star Warsy.
https://vimeo.com/248649293
That’s pretty rad! 😉
Attack of the Clones: Alternate Timeline Edit Thread:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/SSWRs-Attack-of-the-Clones-Alternate-Timeline-Edit/id/66888
What is your reasoning for not using the trailer shot? Is it the different starfield compared to that in TLJ?
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Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Here’s a suggestion for your upcoming edit: after the credits and before the Lucasfilm logo plays, insert Palpatine’s laugh from the teaser for The Rise of Skywalker, foreshadowing his return. (You can find a version of the teaser without the music here so you wouldn’t have to waste time removing the notes at the end of Palpatine’s laugh)
The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.
I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.
What is your reasoning for not using the trailer shot? Is it the different starfield compared to that in TLJ?
It was more a draft for the concept back then. The starfield and crawl were custom made and the hyperspace effect was a green screen effect I chroma keyed. I hadn’t thought of using that shot from the trailer/movie. I’d prefer to create a new shot as to not reuse a shot that’s already been shown, but the transition in that shot is much nicer than the draft I created.
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1308281
Just an idea I had.
JEDIT: Should put this in the general videos thread. Ima do that.
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Hahaha, my sister is going to love this.