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The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome). — Page 4

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The space battles and lightsaber duels are in 8 for sure, but the more interesting training and luke things happen in 7. So, if the bang boom stuff is what makes a great star wars film for you then I can see that it may seem that 7 is inferior, honestly I think 7 would be the stronger film and 8 would be stronger than what we currently have for 8 too.

Also, to the notion that the ending of 7 would not have enough oomph. I am not so certain. Yoda and burning the tree and so on, this could be pretty dramatic. It also opens up the possibility of a year between movies. It offers the potential to have Rey training during this time to show she earned her mastery and expertise, prior to them meeting on the surface of Starkiller base. Conceptually I really like that.

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You don’t need to move all these things around for a time skip. My plan is to just have Rey and Chewie spend a year roaming Ach-To questioning locals for hints on Luke’s exact whereabouts.

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As it stands, the Sequels seem to go out of their way to ignore the Prequels, aside from two instances, one per film. Any ideas for how they could be more overtly acknowledged? Maybe some Prequel species (or even Original species; we’re lacking on all fronts for returning species), ships, or planets could be integrated?

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Maybe JJ went out of his way to ignore them in 7, but I would disagree in saying that Lucasfilm or RJ in general went out of their way to ignore them.

In my opinion, I think that TLJ especially continues thematic elements introduced in the Prequels, like the flaws of the Jedi Order and the issue of what balance in the Force actually means. Kylo Ren begging Rey to join him in bringing “a new order to the galaxy” seems to clearly parallel Anakin offering the same with Padmé in ROTS.

Sure, there aren’t many surface-level references, but the OT doesn’t really have many either. And yes, it would’ve been impossible for the OT to reference the prequels visually when they were made before them, but if the OT doesn’t even have many retroactive prequel references, then why should we expect any at all even farther along in time during the ST?

I do agree though that it would’ve been nice for the Creature Shop to have thrown us a bone with at least a few more classic or prequel aliens in the new movies. I guess the idea is that they want an excuse to create their own aliens, plus they wanted to really push the idea that the galaxy’s demographics are incomprehensibly more diverse than we’ve previously assumed. I don’t think it would’ve hurt to have seen a one or two recognizable aliens from the other movies beyond returning alien characters, though.

Despite the other things I’ve said too, I do think it would be cool if they did throw out some more prequel connections though. Like for IX, I wouldn’t be surprised if they returned to a prequel planet, like Mustafar, Naboo or Tatooine. With the rough state the Resistance is in, I wouldn’t mind seeing outdated Clone Wars-era ships, and I think it wouldn’t feel too shoe-horned giving the situation. And yeah, it would be cool to see more prequel (and OT) aliens joining the fight.

So if we don’t get that stuff in IX, I could see that kind of stuff being included in a fan edit for that film. I think not seeing any prequel ships so far isn’t a big deal I wouldn’t really expect it.

Maybe you could change Hosnian Prime into Coruscant, though. You could take an image of Coruscant and put it on top of Hosnian Prime in the wide shot as the laser approaches and starts blowing up other planets/moons in that system. I would suggest taking out the other satellites since we don’t see other planets/moons near Coruscant in the Prequels (do we?). You would just need to make sure you cut out the one time it is referred to as “the Hosnian system” by Poe, though.

If Starkiller is Ilum, technically it would be a prequel reference since it was in the Clone Wars. You could try to make it clearer by adding more crystals jutting from the ground or hanging out of rock ceilings or cliffs, or Jedi ruins half buried in snow in certain shots.

You could possibly add OT/PT aliens to Maz’s Castle, Canto Bight, the Resistance or as an X-Wing pilot, but I think doing so would be challenging and more trouble than it’s worth, because you would be talking about needing to do passable CG work or practical shooting to integrate into the film.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

As it stands, the Sequels seem to go out of their way to ignore the Prequels, aside from two instances, one per film. Any ideas for how they could be more overtly acknowledged? Maybe some Prequel species (or even Original species; we’re lacking on all fronts for returning species), ships, or planets could be integrated?

Well, first off, there’s more than two. Second, if you want to start inserting PT stuff elsewhere, you should start with the OT, where timeline-wise it’s more relevant.

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The prequels are half a century before the sequel trilogy, so too many references would be needless fan service.

oofa doofa

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DominicCobb said:

Well, first off, there’s more than two. Second, if you want to start inserting PT stuff elsewhere, you should start with the OT, where timeline-wise it’s more relevant.

This is true, which is why I like the battle droid in the sandcrawler in Ady’s edits. If you built off of this, it would make sense to see one or two Clone Wars-era ships in the Rebel fleet in ESB and ROTJ. I wouldn’t mind a little easter egg like that (did Ady mention putting the Ghost in the Battle of Endor?). I think something like the Republic cruiser from TPM would fit in with the Rebel fleet. Maybe even a Separatist cruiser.

Totally unrelated, but back when TFA came out I was a little surprised how normal Bala-Tik, leader of the Guavaian Death Gang, looked compared to his cyborg henchmen. Not a big deal, but I kinda thought it would be cool if Bala-Tik had one glowing red eye, as if he had an implant or something. But not an in-your-face, Cyborg, kind of effect. I was thinking something kind of subtle, like the “light splitting” effect used in Bladerunner for the Replicants, except that instead of the glow being a faint yellow, it could also be more of a faint red. And the intensity could change depending on his position, simulating how the effect works practically. So for example, when he walks up to the camera in his very last shot, as his face approaches the window, we could see the red (or yellow) eye effect become more noticeable, as if he was stepping in the right position for the light to bounce off his eye into the camera properly. Don’t know how difficult this kind of visual effect would be, though.

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I didn’t mean stuffing the ST full to the brim with PT references. Just a few subtle nods. It just feels weird having the whole thing be one big OT reference while completely ignoring the other half of the movies that came before it.

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But where? How? Why?

Hot take: The Force Awakens is in no way, shape or form a rehash or remake of A New Hope.
It’s no more derivative than the average sequel, and is certainly less derivative than the prequels.

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Following up on a brief discussion on the ST planets in the PT thread, I wanted to elaborate more on some thoughts I had about that.

I think it is a generally accepted the planets in the Sequel Trilogy don’t feel as interesting as some of planets from the Prequels. The new planets feel a little too similar to the OT planets with a few exceptions, like Canto Bight, Crait and Ach-To. I don’t think the issue is they aren’t alien enough, it’s just that people want to see new places. From a visual standpoint, some of the concept art for the “Junkyard Planet” and the “Pirate World” felt a lot newer than Jakku being another desert and Takodana just being a pretty normal forest (with D’Qar being another green forest planet in the same movie).

Hopefully will see some more interesting worlds in IX, but I do think it would be worth exploring ways some of the ST planets could stand out more from the Tatooine, Hoth, Endor/Yavin comparisons.

I don’t think these environments can or should be completely changed, but finding feasible ways to add elements to make them stand out more could help.

Let’s look at Jakku. Obviously a lot of Tatooine comparisons are made. So what sets Jakku apart from other planets? The fact that is basically is a ship graveyard. Maybe they were afraid to add too much stuff, but personally I think they should’ve really leaned in on it being a junkyard.

If you think about it, we really only parts of this ship graveyard in three sequences: when Rey is in the Destroyer in her first scene and as she drives away, her AT-AT house, and the Millenium Falcon chase sequence. Not a lot in retrospect.

So the simplest thing to do would be add more crashed ships to emphasize that part of the planet’s “character”. Let’s see more old AT-ATs around Rey’s home, maybe standing up rather than fallen over. One without it’s head, etc etc.

Another great place to add stuff would be Finn’s trek to Niima Outpost. What if as Finn got closer to the Outpost, we would see more and more junk in each shot. This would help show visually that Finn is going in the right direction. Then finally when Finn sees Niima Outpost, the horizon could be filled with small specks of crashes ships, and we could clearly see the remains of a long-forgotten battlefield.

Obviously the difficult part would be integrating these ships into the shots, but I think with some after effects/blender designs, plus motion tracking, would still put it in a realm of possibility.

Some ideas for potential crashed ship varieties:
Star Destroyers
TIE-Fighters
Bombers
Interceptors
A/B/X/Y-Wings
Rebel transports
Blockade runners
Nebulon-B frigates
Mon Calamari Cruisers
AT-ATs
AT-STs

You also could have debris in space still floating in orbit as well.

I think seeing more stuff like this really would’ve given Jakku more character. I’ve also suggested that the large planet/moon we see in the opening shot of TFA could be inserted in the skyline of Jakku somewhere to set it apart from Tatooine more.

Moving on to Takodana.
I was really stumped on what could be done with it. To me, I would say the most interesting thing about Maz’s Castle is that it was the site of a battle between the Jedi and Sith, and according to Wookieepedia, the Castle use to house Jedi and its catacombs contained Jedi tombs. Pretty interesting, but you wouldn’t know any of that just by watching the movie!

So my idea for adding something to give this place more visual history/character would be to insert two giant Jedi statues on opposites sides of the lake. This would only require vfx for three or fours shots: the wide shot as the Falcon approaches the Castle, two shots of Rey looking out over the lake, and possibly one shot during the X-Wing battle. It could sort of be like an homage to the Pillars of Argonath from Fellowship of the Ring, the two giant statues they pass on their journey.

I think this could be a small addition that would make Maz’s Castle much more interesting, and it also might help surprise the audience when they enter the castle and it is actually filled with pirates.

With Starkiller Base, I would say one of the more interesting aspects regarding it is the theory that it might be Ilum, the planet where Jedi would go to get their lightsaber crystals.

Ilum actually appeared in the Clone Wars, but if you compare it how Ilum looks to Starkiller Base, it doesn’t immediately look the same beyond them both being snow planets.

https://youtu.be/m7a2LSWXCeA

So, what if we made Starkiller Base look more like Ilum to help strengthen that idea?

While most movie-only fans wouldn’t get the connection, Ilum is actually visually interesting. Not only does it have crystals jutting out of the ground here and there, but is also has a visible aurora borealis in the sky, something haven’t seen in a Star Wars movie before.

You can find crystal models on blender that could be used to place across the planet’s surface in certain shots. You also could added visible aurorae in space shots of the planet, and maybe in certain shots of the characters on the surface as well where appropriate. I think this would help make Starkiller more visually interesting.

Not only that, but if we emphasize the ideas of Takodana and Starkiller being sacred Jedi sites, then the First Order destroying them to serve their goals would go along with the idea that they want to destroy Luke and the last remnants of the Jedi religion.

That only really leaves D’Qar which I don’t think you can do much with honestly. The most interesting thing about it is its ring, but most scenes on D’Qar are overcast, so you couldn’t really add the ring to any of those shots even if you wanted to. The only thing I’ve thought of would be to change the greenery to a different color, maybe to something more autumn-like, such as yellow or orange, since we’ve never really seen a fall-season in a Star Wars movie. Not sure how difficult that would be though. On the other hand it might be the most feasible idea out of all of these!

Anyway, these are just “radical” some ideas I wanted to share. It seems like visually this one thing Lucas wasn’t too crazy about regarding TFA, and I can understand that. I think a good balance could be found though.

These ideas would require some work but I don’t think they are unrealistic either, and I think they would be effective changes as well. Would like to get some more thoughts on this.

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I’ve had similar thoughts about Jakku as you. It’s conceived as a junk planet but comes across basically as just a desert planet. Now, I don’t really have much of an issue with it, as I think the desolate landscape adds scope and heightens Rey’s isolation (and scavenging skills). Your suggested ideas are cool, but ultimately I fear they are probably hard to implement and ultimately not worth it. I feel like a potentially simpler “fix” for Jakku would be to recolor the sand to something more junky, like grey or brown.

With the others, again it’s not really something that bothers me, but the ideas are cool and could work well.

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I wonder if recoloring the sand would be challenging due to similarities with warner skin tone colors and Rey’s tan costume, for example. Maybe recoloring the sky to a pink or yellow could be more doable? Some of the swamp Jakku concept art had a really nice pink sky.

It might be more trouble than it is worth, but maybe it would be easier to do if you just tried to insert elements in static shots only?

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Tatooine is also a junkyard planet. The Sandcrawler is junk, a leftover from mining operations.
Just make Jakku a region of Tattoine where a large battle took place.
Both planets are the same and look the same…

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I love the Jakku and Takodana ideas. Worth testing the addition of wrecks/statues into a couple of shots?

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…felt a lot newer than Jakku being another desert and Takodana just being a pretty normal forest (with D’Qar being another green forest planet in the same movie).

D’Qar isn’t really shown to have forests. I mean, I’m sure it has some, but unlike Takodana we don’t spend any time in them.

Some ideas for potential crashed ship varieties:
Star Destroyers
TIE-Fighters
Bombers
Interceptors
A/B/X/Y-Wings
Rebel transports
Blockade runners
Nebulon-B frigates
Mon Calamari Cruisers
AT-ATs
AT-STs

Did someone say ABXY?

What if Snoke’s hologram room was the room where the younglings meet Yoda? They’re both roughly the same shape, and it seems fitting that Snoke’s hologram would be in a desecrated holy site.

I wonder if recoloring the sand would be challenging due to similarities with warner skin tone colors and Rey’s tan costume, for example. Maybe recoloring the sky to a pink or yellow could be more doable? Some of the swamp Jakku concept art had a really nice pink sky.

I remember trying all that I couldn’t get anything to work. Like you said, the colors are warm like skin, and on top of that, the sky and ground are similar colors sometimes. Anything we doe would have to be frame-by-frame. That’s why I came up with the cactus idea. It’s something you could just add to a few shots. That’s the sort of thing we should focus on, as it’s far more manageable.

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Huh, the idea of making Snoke’s hologram room a desecrated Jedi site is a cool idea, and would be a logical place to include Jedi architecture. I’ll have to go back and watch that scene to see what exactly could be added to give the audience that idea.

EDIT: If you check the link that I shared in my previous post, you can see Ilum and the temple interior.

Interestingly, if you were to make Snoke’s hologram chamber into the temple entrance room, it kind of fits actually. If Snoke’s positioned where Yoda is in the clip, then you actually could insert to Jedi statues on either side of his hologram (apparently Jedi statues is becoming a theme).

Snoke’s room is pretty dark though. It would make sense for those two place to be the same place, but I feel like you wouldn’t be able to see much detail, plus it is possible the Empire/First Order would’ve demolished everything by this point and built over it.

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What about making a Jakku a sandy forest? Too radical to be feasible, I suppose? That said, it does follow my rule of only adding decor rather than changing the fundamentals. There could just be patches of trees here and there.

The only thing I’ve thought of would be to change the greenery to a different color, maybe to something more autumn-like, such as yellow or orange, since we’ve never really seen a fall-season in a Star Wars movie.

You were saying?

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huh, that would be cool, a little Scarif like, but I don’t think it is practical.

The autumn Takodana is cool! Love the red leaves. Although it would need to be sporadic, here and there, because of Rey’s line, “I didn’t know there was this much green in the whole galaxy.” Which is why I suggested making D’Qar autumn, but yeah, it would be more noticeable with Takodana since she actually goes into the forest. And I guess that line doesn’t matter if you cut it, but I really like that line personally.

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Actually, the fact that there’s less foliage on D’Qar should make the conversion easier.

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RogueLeader said:

huh, that would be cool, a little Scarif like, but I don’t think it is practical.

The autumn Takodana is cool! Love the red leaves. Although it would need to be sporadic, here and there, because of Rey’s line, “I didn’t know there was this much green in the whole galaxy.” Which is why I suggested making D’Qar autumn, but yeah, it would be more noticeable with Takodana since she actually goes into the forest. And I guess that line doesn’t matter if you cut it, but I really like that line personally.

I think you could probably get a way with a couple or so non-green trees in the wide shot, and then show some more later without stepping on Rey’s line. For her even without it being entirely green it still would make sense to say it (plus you could also of course argue that the line isn’t just referring to the color but the plant life in general).

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I love the idea of Autumnal Takodana!

Jakku sounds a lot harder to pull off. I’d like it if it were entirely a junk planet, like the one from Force Unleashed.

Starkiller feels different enough from Hoth imo. It has pine trees where Hoth is all tundra. As for D’Quar it’s barely in the movie and could look like a solid “plains” planet if without the trees.

Vader, a 7 in 1 edit of the entire Star Wars Saga

Maul, a clone wars edit

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I agree on Starkiller. The trees make a big difference. I’m thinking of going beyond that and making it a snowy volcano world like in the concept art, but only because I need to explain the crack appearing during the duel since I’m not blowing the planet up.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

I agree on Starkiller. The trees make a big difference. I’m thinking of going beyond that and making it a snowy volcano world like in the concept art, but only because I need to explain the crack appearing during the duel since I’m not blowing the planet up.

Ah yes. That ice and fire concept art looked amazing.

Honestly, I think TFA was in general a superior film before they denied all those concept arts.

Vader, a 7 in 1 edit of the entire Star Wars Saga

Maul, a clone wars edit

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Yeah, it’s like they were doing the innovation they were used to doing under George but the new management said “Nah, let’s just remake ANH”. It’s sad, really.