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The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome). — Page 11

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Double post.

I think using the Prequel senate would confuse people about whether or not this is Coruscant.

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Here’s an idea I have: Luke’s projection form on Crait should look identical to his older appearance in the film, in terms of hair and beard. There’s edits that give him the green lightsaber to make the projection reveal more surprising, but why not change the hair and beard too?

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Good point Anakin! Probably better off just to not show it.

TN2, probably because that would be near impossible for anyone to do on our level.

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RogueLeader said:

Good point Anakin! Probably better off just to not show it.

TN2, probably because that would be near impossible for anyone to do on our level.

Why not just dye the hair and beard grey in After Effects?

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You…don’t have much experience doing effects work in After Effects, do you? It’s not as simple as you seem to think it is.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

You…don’t have much experience doing effects work in After Effects, do you? It’s not as simple as you seem to think it is.

If you made a semi-transparent , feathered shape that altered the saturation, it might work. But you’d have to be very precise.

But even even then, you still have to deal with the fact that Luke’s beard on Crait is much shorter than on Ach-To.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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 (Edited)

This is somewhat related to discussion regarding the opening crawl we’ve been having on Nevarar’s TFA thread, but I wanted to move this conversation over here since it isn’t necessarily just about his edit. I wanted to have a conversation regarding how the politics in the films reflect real-life politics, and how this perspective can affect one’s approach to editing the Sequel Trilogy.

The political situations in the previous films seem to reflect real-life American politics in very general ways. In the OT, the Empire was America. Nixon was the Emperor. The rebellion was like the Viet Cong or the objectors/protestors in America, like the hippie movement.

In the prequels, George made parallels between Nute Gunray and Newt Gingrich, Bush and Vader and Cheney and Palpatine. Seeing a democracy become a dictatorship. “You’re with us, or you’re with the terrorists”.

In the sequels, what could that parallel be?
The rise of nationalism and the alt-right?
The election of Donald Trump?
So, which angle to handle the New Republic would fit most appropriately with a contemporary American political analogy?

American politics seem totally divided between two sides. The idea that the Republic has been split into two parties, one allied to Old Republic ideology vs another that wants to restore Imperial strength, would seem to reflect the total division of the Democrat and Republican parties today (in a more extreme away obviously). The “death” of the New Republic could parallel the democrats losing the 2016 election and leading to the political upheaval we’ve see on a daily basis the past few years.

Not trying to say this interpretation is fact. George openly made liberal parallels with his films, so I figure it would be appropriate to strengthen similar parallels that are in the sequels as well.
And you can make parallels between the GFFA and the US, but the rise of nationalism globally has been a major talking point in recent years, so the ST fitting with that in a general sense fits too.

So I guess the question boils down to how the opening crawls could be worded (or things in the films themselves) to match this metaphor? Should the First Order be an open “nationalist” movement or be something hiding in the shadows and then striking from the cover of darkness? Should the Republic be trying, but struggling, to deal with this movement, or are they not taking it as seriously as they should be? I’d like to get suggestions that consider the real-life parallels.

What makes the most sense for the ST, in regards to how the OT and PT also reflected the real-life politics of their times?

I’m liking the way Nev is currently leaning with his, but I just wanted to carry that discussion over to here in order to talk about it more generally.

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Star Wars has always been a leftist criticism of contemporary American Fascism. In the Original Trilogy, it was criticizing imperialism in Vietnam, in the Prequels it was criticizing liberals handing more and more power over to the extreme right.

The Sequels can be read as being a critique of liberal ineffectiveness to defeat the right. In canon, after the Galactic Civil War, the New Republic decides that disarmament is the best way to prevent the rise of a new empire. Of course, this doesn’t work and the New Republic is destroyed by people idolizing the Empire. You could read this as saying that legislation alone isn’t enough to defeat fascist sentiment. This could be seen as a criticism of general modern American liberal weariness to confront fascism directly.

I feel like the best angle to take this from is ‘The New Republic is responsible for this in some way’.

she/her

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Great response! You can see how this is sort of the angle the films are already taking, so maybe the way the New Republic is referenced in the opening crawl could be a way that idea could be emphasized more. I think there have been several crawl ideas on here that have been along these lines.

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Yeah we had a discussion along these lines awhile ago. My idea is the complacent New Republic angle, or at least that’s how I frame it in my current crawl:

Luke Skywalker has vanished. Without the Jedi, the mysterious FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker has been destroyed.

Failing to convince the complacent New Republic of this growing threat, General Leia Organa hastens to form a brave RESISTANCE to reignite the fight against the dark side.

Desperate for her brother’s help, Leia has sent her most trusted pilot on a daring mission to Jakku, where a clue has been discovered to Luke’s whereabouts….

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RogueLeader said:

This is somewhat related to discussion regarding the opening crawl we’ve been having on Nevarar’s TFA thread, but I wanted to move this conversation over here since it isn’t necessarily just about his edit. I wanted to have a conversation regarding how the politics in the films reflect real-life politics, and how this perspective can affect one’s approach to editing the Sequel Trilogy.

The political situations in the previous films seem to reflect real-life American politics in very general ways. In the OT, the Empire was America. Nixon was the Emperor. The rebellion was like the Viet Cong or the objectors/protestors in America, like the hippie movement.

In the prequels, George made parallels between Nute Gunray and Newt Gingrich, Bush and Vader and Cheney and Palpatine. Seeing a democracy become a dictatorship. “You’re with us, or you’re with the terrorists”.

In the sequels, what could that parallel be?
The rise of nationalism and the alt-right?
The election of Donald Trump?
So, which angle to by which to handle the New Republic would fit most appropriately with a contemporary American political analogy?

American politics seem totally divided between two sides. The idea that the Republic has been split into two parties, one allied to Old Republic ideology vs another that wants to restore Imperial strength, would seem to reflect the total division of the Democratic and Republican parties today (in a more extreme away obviously). The “death” of the New Republic could parallel the democrats losing the 2016 election and leading to the political upheaval we’ve see on a daily basis the past few years.

Not trying to say this interpretation is fact. George openly made liberal parallels with his films, so I figure it would be appropriate to strengthen similar parallels that are in the sequels as well.
And you can make parallels between the GFFA and the US, but the rise of nationalism globally has been a major talking point in recent years, so the ST fitting with that in a general sense fits too.

So I guess the question boils down to how the opening crawls could be worded (or things in the films themselves) to match this metaphor? Should the First Order be an open “nationalist” movement or be something hiding in the shadows and then striking from the cover of darkness? Should the Republic be trying, but struggling, to deal with this movement, or are they not taking it as seriously as they should be? I’d like to get suggestions that consider the real-life parallels.

What makes the most sense for the ST, in regards to how the OT and PT also reflected the real-life politics of their times?

I’m liking the way Nev is currently leaning with his, but I just wanted to carry that discussion over to here in order to talk about it more generally.

I hope that this discussion doesn’t run afoul of the new-ish political rules of this forum, but I definitely had worldwide rightwing movements in mind when trying to write the crawl. As you say, it was already an aspect of the originals so it made sense to continue that tradition. This paragraph in particular is probably the closest I’ve dared come to making an explicit reference to American politics:

In his absence, leaders from a thousand worlds have forsaken the fragile Republic in favor of the IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER, which has vowed to return strength to the galaxy through the designs of the once mighty Empire.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
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NeverarGreat said:

RogueLeader said:

This is somewhat related to discussion regarding the opening crawl we’ve been having on Nevarar’s TFA thread, but I wanted to move this conversation over here since it isn’t necessarily just about his edit. I wanted to have a conversation regarding how the politics in the films reflect real-life politics, and how this perspective can affect one’s approach to editing the Sequel Trilogy.

The political situations in the previous films seem to reflect real-life American politics in very general ways. In the OT, the Empire was America. Nixon was the Emperor. The rebellion was like the Viet Cong or the objectors/protestors in America, like the hippie movement.

In the prequels, George made parallels between Nute Gunray and Newt Gingrich, Bush and Vader and Cheney and Palpatine. Seeing a democracy become a dictatorship. “You’re with us, or you’re with the terrorists”.

In the sequels, what could that parallel be?
The rise of nationalism and the alt-right?
The election of Donald Trump?
So, which angle to by which to handle the New Republic would fit most appropriately with a contemporary American political analogy?

American politics seem totally divided between two sides. The idea that the Republic has been split into two parties, one allied to Old Republic ideology vs another that wants to restore Imperial strength, would seem to reflect the total division of the Democratic and Republican parties today (in a more extreme away obviously). The “death” of the New Republic could parallel the democrats losing the 2016 election and leading to the political upheaval we’ve see on a daily basis the past few years.

Not trying to say this interpretation is fact. George openly made liberal parallels with his films, so I figure it would be appropriate to strengthen similar parallels that are in the sequels as well.
And you can make parallels between the GFFA and the US, but the rise of nationalism globally has been a major talking point in recent years, so the ST fitting with that in a general sense fits too.

So I guess the question boils down to how the opening crawls could be worded (or things in the films themselves) to match this metaphor? Should the First Order be an open “nationalist” movement or be something hiding in the shadows and then striking from the cover of darkness? Should the Republic be trying, but struggling, to deal with this movement, or are they not taking it as seriously as they should be? I’d like to get suggestions that consider the real-life parallels.

What makes the most sense for the ST, in regards to how the OT and PT also reflected the real-life politics of their times?

I’m liking the way Nev is currently leaning with his, but I just wanted to carry that discussion over to here in order to talk about it more generally.

I hope that this discussion doesn’t run afoul of the new-ish political rules of this forum, but I definitely had worldwide rightwing movements in mind when trying to write the crawl. As you say, it was already an aspect of the originals so it made sense to continue that tradition. This paragraph in particular is probably the closest I’ve dared come to making an explicit reference to American politics:

In his absence, leaders from a thousand worlds have forsaken the fragile Republic in favor of the IMPERIAL FIRST ORDER, which has vowed to return strength to the galaxy through the designs of the once mighty Empire.

Yeah I mean, that’s a pretty good way of getting as close as you possibly can to “Make the Galaxy Great Again.”

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Yeah, I’m liking your newest crawl Nev!

Also in your crawl, like I asked you about, it is implied the New Republic approved of the Resistance in order to counter the First Order indirectly. So another general question I have is regarding the pros and cons of the New Republic mobilizing the Resistance themselves, or the Resistance being an independent organization Leia made after being frustrated with the Republic’s inaction.

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I don’t have much to add, but I like RogueLeader’s take on interpreting a political reflection in the ST.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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This parallel, though, I think is really unintentional. I have a hard time believing a Hollywood blockbuster is going to take a firm political stance in this decade. However, it’s not hard to read this, and the new EU makes it even easier. It would definitely be a good idea for sequel fanedits to lean even further into this.

Death of the Author

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Star Wars has never been explicit political commentary and should stay that way. God knows some people will find a way to say it’s attacking their political belief anyway, but that’s not the point.

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gosh i could really break some forum rules right now

she/her

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snooker said:

gosh i could really break some forum rules right now

If the current conversation sticks to the political history of the time being used as social commentary / allegories in the Star Wars films… and doesn’t get personal… given the context of the conversation so far, feel free to go ahead and carry on the conversation.
 

(I may come to regret this - please don’t make me regret it, anyone - thank you.)

 

Edit:-

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self-realisation, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems. The sequel is about Jedi Knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.” - George Lucas in 1983.

^ from the ‘Icons: Infinite Portriats’ book - by Denise Worrell; in an interview with George Lucas.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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We don’t have to get deep into a political conversation now, but I wanted to bring it up for those editors who might be approaching editing these films in the future that it might be worth looking at the story’s politics from that angle during their process.

On another note, in the TLJ documentary, we get to see an alternate take on the Luke and Leia scene, and I really like Carrie’s performance there. Leia has been so strong throughout these films, and I think getting to see her breakdown in front of the people that have followed her to the end, looking to her for strength, while the tragedy of everything hitting her when she thinks all hope is finally lost. Do you think it would be possible to get clean audio of Carrie saying, “This is the end, isn’t it?” I just really like the vulnerability of that question. Not sure if it could even fit into an edit, or if it should, just curious.

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The politics in The Last Jedi need more subtlety, not less.

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Yes, that’s why I wrote in the thread that it’s a rough cut.