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The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations — Page 5

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DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Omni said:

My last two cents on the “is TFA just SW 2.0?” argument: This video, in which the guy tries to be as unbiased as possible. It’s a good video.

I will say it’s baffling to see people saying that TFA doesn’t have the same plot as SW. The story isn’t exactly the same (even though it’s incredibly similar) but the plot is, pretty much, the very same thing…

I don’t see how it’s baffling that someone would say they aren’t the exact same. I don’t think you’re actually baffled, you know full well they aren’t the same. I don’t understand why these conversations always turn to hyperbole. (Maybe because there’d be nothing to argue about if we were all honest with what the films actually are.)

Honestly, I like TFA, but I would say the plot is highly similar to ANH, with a few elements of TESB and ROTJ thrown in for good measure. The question is not whether it is, or isn’t similar, because it is, and not by accident, but if it is too similar, such that in the combination with the story, characters, and visuals, it ruins the movie for you. It didn’t for me, but I think because of the similarities, it’s lasting impact may be somewhat less, than if it had been more original. I would also say, that if someone were to argue, that they didn’t like TFA, because it was too similar to ANH, that that would not be an unreasonable point of view. I would say, that I can see their point, but the other elements in the film, and the way they were presented, made it seem fresh enough for me to like the movie, and not classify it as a rehash.

I would say the plot is completely different. ANH is driven by the Death Star Plans and a huge danger to the free galaxy (first Alderaan and then Yavin IV). TFA is driven by the search for Luke. In ANH Vader is searching for the plans protect his asset and they fall into Luke’s hands. In TFA, Kylo and Leia are searching for Luke and no one finds him until the last scene. The map to Luke never is within reach of Kylo like it is Vader (R2 is there on the Death Star with the plans). In TFA, the piece of the map they have is useless without the rest which we get after the climax of the film.

Now what is the same are a lot of the setups and scenes. As I said before, the opening is setup almost identical in many ways, but once the McGuffin arrives in our hero’s hands, the story diverges greatly. We are treated to Abrams version of the Cantina (which makes story sense because it is the sort of place Han would frequent and would go to when he needed something), Death Star, trench run, enemy base rescue, imminent danger, etc. But the story between them is nothing alike. In ANH, they accidentally find Leia, in TFA they go to rescue Rey. In ANH Leia needs rescuing, in TFA, Rey does not. In ANH the Death Star is closing in to fire, in TFA Starkiller Base is charging to fire. In ANH Tarkin refuses to leave, in TFA Hux evacuates. So a lot of story points touch on the same ideas, but the execution and resolution is very different because they plot of the film has a different goal. ANH is all about the Death Star while TFA is all about finding Luke. The crawls set it up this way. I find both movies to feel very different. While TFA evokes a sense of nostalgia and plays in familiar territory, everything is different and new.

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Rodney-2187 said:

pleasehello said:

Rodney-2187 said:

Is everyone pretty much thinking the same thing then? ($700,000,000 domestic/$1.4 worldwide) I haven’t seen too many predictions far outside of those numbers.

The Force Awakens opening weekend was $247,966,675 and The Last Jedi opened with $220,009,584, so I would expect The Rise of Skywalker to at least open around $230,000,000.

I’m definitely predicting less than The Last Jedi. I really think a lot of people were turned off by it and don’t feel the need to see final installment.

Are you going to see it?

Most definitely. I quite liked The Last Jedi on repeat viewing, even loved certain parts. But I have a few friends who hated it for legitimate reasons and who just don’t care to see IX.

Even I am much less excited to see IX than I was to see The Last Jedi. As interesting as parts of TLJ are I don’t think Rian Johnson left much to anticipate. TLJ really felt like an ending with all of our characters reunited, stories sort of completed (except maybe for Kylo Ren). Especially the symbolism of the epilogue with the little slave children felt like this chapter of the saga has come to a close.

Not every middle chapter has to have a big cliffhanger ending, but TLJ needed some sort of business that was left unfinished. Something more immediate and personal than “Rebels are still fighting the First Order” which technically is unfinished business, but is not really all that compelling.

All this to say that I expect a smaller turnout for episode IX.

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yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Omni said:

My last two cents on the “is TFA just SW 2.0?” argument: This video, in which the guy tries to be as unbiased as possible. It’s a good video.

I will say it’s baffling to see people saying that TFA doesn’t have the same plot as SW. The story isn’t exactly the same (even though it’s incredibly similar) but the plot is, pretty much, the very same thing…

I don’t see how it’s baffling that someone would say they aren’t the exact same. I don’t think you’re actually baffled, you know full well they aren’t the same. I don’t understand why these conversations always turn to hyperbole. (Maybe because there’d be nothing to argue about if we were all honest with what the films actually are.)

Honestly, I like TFA, but I would say the plot is highly similar to ANH, with a few elements of TESB and ROTJ thrown in for good measure. The question is not whether it is, or isn’t similar, because it is, and not by accident, but if it is too similar, such that in the combination with the story, characters, and visuals, it ruins the movie for you. It didn’t for me, but I think because of the similarities, it’s lasting impact may be somewhat less, than if it had been more original. I would also say, that if someone were to argue, that they didn’t like TFA, because it was too similar to ANH, that that would not be an unreasonable point of view. I would say, that I can see their point, but the other elements in the film, and the way they were presented, made it seem fresh enough for me to like the movie, and not classify it as a rehash.

I would say the plot is completely different. ANH is driven by the Death Star Plans and a huge danger to the free galaxy (first Alderaan and then Yavin IV). TFA is driven by the search for Luke. In ANH Vader is searching for the plans protect his asset and they fall into Luke’s hands. In TFA, Kylo and Leia are searching for Luke and no one finds him until the last scene. The map to Luke never is within reach of Kylo like it is Vader (R2 is there on the Death Star with the plans). In TFA, the piece of the map they have is useless without the rest which we get after the climax of the film.

That is not completely different. That is very similar. In both films the villain is looking for important information vital to the survival of the heroes, that has been hidden at the last moment by one of the heroes in a droid. That droid ends up in the hands of the main protagonist, who lives on a desert planet, and with the help of an ally tries to get the information back to the home base of the heroes. The heroes go to a seedy bar in an attempt to further their quest. The villains use a super weapon to destroy a planet/planets. One of the heroes needs to be rescued from the villain’s base, we get another desperate attack to destroy the super weapon, we get another trench run, etc, etc.

Now what is the same are a lot of the setups and scenes. As I said before, the opening is setup almost identical in many ways, but once the McGuffin arrives in our hero’s hands, the story diverges greatly. We are treated to Abrams version of the Cantina (which makes story sense because it is the sort of place Han would frequent and would go to when he needed something), Death Star, trench run, enemy base rescue, imminent danger, etc. But the story between them is nothing alike. In ANH, they accidentally find Leia, in TFA they go to rescue Rey. In ANH Leia needs rescuing, in TFA, Rey does not. In ANH the Death Star is closing in to fire, in TFA Starkiller Base is charging to fire. In ANH Tarkin refuses to leave, in TFA Hux evacuates. So a lot of story points touch on the same ideas, but the execution and resolution is very different because they plot of the film has a different goal. ANH is all about the Death Star while TFA is all about finding Luke. The crawls set it up this way. I find both movies to feel very different. While TFA evokes a sense of nostalgia and plays in familiar territory, everything is different and new.

The fact that some details are different, or that the order of events have been altered somewhat, or that one character is switched for another does not suddenly make it completely different. It makes it not identical, because several things have been altered, but the similarities, are there, and they are obvious. The question is whether making a few changes, and adding some new elements is enough to make it seem fresh? Some will say yes, while other will say no.

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Rodney-2187 said:

I think Star Wars is doing great. I’d say Lucas did more butchering with the the Holiday Special, Ewok Movies, special editions, and prequels, but Star Wars is still going. I love it as much as I ever did.

The level of Lucas’ involvement with the HS is questionable at best. And the Ewok movies are squarely aimed at kids in spite of Battle For Endor rivaling Alien 3 in some respects. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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SilverWook said:

Rodney-2187 said:

I think Star Wars is doing great. I’d say Lucas did more butchering with the the Holiday Special, Ewok Movies, special editions, and prequels, but Star Wars is still going. I love it as much as I ever did.

The level of Lucas’ involvement with the HS is questionable at best. And the Ewok movies are squarely aimed at kids in spite of Battle For Endor rivaling Alien 3 in some respects. 😉

Still, it’s all Star Wars. It just seems people talk about the Original Trilogy as some sort of sacred era of perfection before Disney came along and made all of this other stuff they don’t like. It’s as if they have deleted the Holiday Special, two Ewok movies, Ewok animated series, and Droids animated series all from their memories. Star Wars has always been about more than just the main saga movies, and The Last Jedi isn’t the first piece of Star Wars that some people haven’t liked.

I can sympathize though. I know where they’re coming from. Disney owns Star Wars and they don’t see an end to the current style of movies. I thought the same thing during the prequels. People come and go and someone else will inevitably be in charge of new Star Wars movies. Hopefully those will be more to their liking, but I don’t think Star Wars has been ruined, nor is it ending anytime soon.

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Rodney-2187 said:

SilverWook said:

Rodney-2187 said:

I think Star Wars is doing great. I’d say Lucas did more butchering with the the Holiday Special, Ewok Movies, special editions, and prequels, but Star Wars is still going. I love it as much as I ever did.

The level of Lucas’ involvement with the HS is questionable at best. And the Ewok movies are squarely aimed at kids in spite of Battle For Endor rivaling Alien 3 in some respects. 😉

Still, it’s all Star Wars. It just seems people talk about the Original Trilogy as some sort of sacred era of perfection before Disney came along and made all of this other stuff they don’t like. It’s as if they have deleted the Holiday Special, two Ewok movies, Ewok animated series, and Droids animated series all from their memories. Star Wars has always been about more than just the main saga movies, and The Last Jedi isn’t the first piece of Star Wars that some people haven’t liked.

I can sympathize though. I know where they’re coming from. Disney owns Star Wars and they don’t see an end to the current style of movies. I thought the same thing during the prequels. People come and go and someone else will inevitably be in charge of new Star Wars movies. Hopefully those will be more to their liking, but I don’t think Star Wars has been ruined, nor is it ending anytime soon.

The Holiday Special and made-for-tv Ewok movies aren’t really comparable to a big tent-pole movie that’s part of the main Star Wars saga. It’s not the first piece of Star Wars content that people haven’t liked, but it’s one of the biggest.

I agree though, that Star Wars isn’t ending any time soon. Enthusiasm has waned since TFA for sure, but there’s obviously still a huge market. Star Wars survived the prequels and will definitely keep going after the sequel trilogy.

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I agree, it’s a mischaracterization, nobody here has mentioned Star Wars Resistance or Forces of Destiny or the new games in regards to the sequels, there is an unspoken separation from the more kitschy material and the episodes. The prequels make a better point because they were main episodes and different from the Star Wars OT fans wanted, even doing things with old characters that many fans disliked (whiny kid Anakin, Yoda doing backflips with a tiny lightsaber). But the prequels DID damage the brand’s reputation and the backlash was enough to be one of the reasons for a change in management. It’s not so much the end of Star Wars overall, the fate of more movies on the other hand…

Also we may need more threads, this discussion has a lot of moving parts all worth talking about but it’s starting to get disorganized.

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DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Omni said:

My last two cents on the “is TFA just SW 2.0?” argument: This video, in which the guy tries to be as unbiased as possible. It’s a good video.

I will say it’s baffling to see people saying that TFA doesn’t have the same plot as SW. The story isn’t exactly the same (even though it’s incredibly similar) but the plot is, pretty much, the very same thing…

I don’t see how it’s baffling that someone would say they aren’t the exact same. I don’t think you’re actually baffled, you know full well they aren’t the same. I don’t understand why these conversations always turn to hyperbole. (Maybe because there’d be nothing to argue about if we were all honest with what the films actually are.)

Honestly, I like TFA, but I would say the plot is highly similar to ANH, with a few elements of TESB and ROTJ thrown in for good measure. The question is not whether it is, or isn’t similar, because it is, and not by accident, but if it is too similar, such that in the combination with the story, characters, and visuals, it ruins the movie for you. It didn’t for me, but I think because of the similarities, it’s lasting impact may be somewhat less, than if it had been more original. I would also say, that if someone were to argue, that they didn’t like TFA, because it was too similar to ANH, that that would not be an unreasonable point of view. I would say, that I can see their point, but the other elements in the film, and the way they were presented, made it seem fresh enough for me to like the movie, and not classify it as a rehash.

Yes, “similar” and “the same” are two different things. I think it’s safe to assume on this site we know ANH pretty well, so I’m sure we all were able to pick up on most if not all the similarities on our first viewing of TFA. No need to insult anyone’s intelligence either way by trying to make it out to be something it’s not, we all know what the fact of the matter is (and, at this point, should know that it was obviously intentional). So the debate should not be arguing back and forth about what the similarities are and how many there are, but rather whether or not they work in the film’s favor or are detrimental to it.

Personally, I like to take a more reasoned approach. I get why people don’t like TFA because it’s “too similar,” but I find often people don’t go beyond that, they just think similar=bad, therefore TFA=bad (I shouldn’t have to say this, but obviously not everyone is like this). That is frustrating thing to see, especially when this is a franchise that has always been built off preexisting parts, and has been including echoes of other films within this franchise for years. For me, you can’t take a binary look at it. For instance, the worst part of TFA (in my opinion) is the inclusion of Starkiller Base, not simply because it is a repeat of the Death Star, but because it is only really in the film to repeat the Death Star, and thus feels inorganic to the rest of the story - whereas other repeated elements fit far better and serve a more justifiable purpose in this narrative and actually work in the film’s favor.

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Rodney-2187 said:

Still, it’s all Star Wars. It just seems people talk about the Original Trilogy as some sort of sacred era of perfection before Disney came along and made all of this other stuff they don’t like. It’s as if they have deleted the Holiday Special, two Ewok movies, Ewok animated series, and Droids animated series all from their memories. Star Wars has always been about more than just the main saga movies, and The Last Jedi isn’t the first piece of Star Wars that some people haven’t liked.

Remember that time Attack of the Clones was derided by fans and then the next movie was a box office flop? Oh wait that never happened since casual viewers aren’t ever that discerning.

Yub Nub for life

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DominicCobb said:

For instance, the worst part of TFA (in my opinion) is the inclusion of Starkiller Base, not simply because it is a repeat of the Death Star, but because it is only really in the film to repeat the Death Star, and thus feels inorganic to the rest of the story - whereas other repeated elements fit far better and serve a more justifiable purpose in this narrative and actually work in the film’s favor.

Absolutely agree. The only purpose Star Killer Base serves is a big, flashy battle sequence at the end of the movie, which is a piss poor justification for its existence.

The original Death Star battle works well because it is a defining moment for the main protagonist. It brings Luke’s character arc to completion. The Return of the Jedi Death Star battle works not as well because the fighters are ancillary characters whom the story is not about, but is still symbolic of the Rebellion’s decisive and final victory against the Empire. The Star Killer battle has neither of these things and has almost no reason to exist and honestly the movie could be just as effective without it.

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pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

For instance, the worst part of TFA (in my opinion) is the inclusion of Starkiller Base, not simply because it is a repeat of the Death Star, but because it is only really in the film to repeat the Death Star, and thus feels inorganic to the rest of the story - whereas other repeated elements fit far better and serve a more justifiable purpose in this narrative and actually work in the film’s favor.

Absolutely agree. The only purpose Star Killer Base serves is a big, flashy battle sequence at the end of the movie, which is a piss poor justification for its existence.

The original Death Star battle works well because it is a defining moment for the main protagonist. It brings Luke’s character arc to completion. The Return of the Jedi Death Star battle works not as well because the fighters are ancillary characters whom the story is not about, but is still symbolic of the Rebellion’s decisive and final victory against the Empire. The Star Killer battle has neither of these things and has almost no reason to exist and honestly the movie could be just as effective without it.

Pretty much.

The only other thing it accomplishes is destroying the New Republic, which is a pretty secondary plot point in that film and is really only important in regards to the macro level stakes for the trilogy as a whole.

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DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

For instance, the worst part of TFA (in my opinion) is the inclusion of Starkiller Base, not simply because it is a repeat of the Death Star, but because it is only really in the film to repeat the Death Star, and thus feels inorganic to the rest of the story - whereas other repeated elements fit far better and serve a more justifiable purpose in this narrative and actually work in the film’s favor.

Absolutely agree. The only purpose Star Killer Base serves is a big, flashy battle sequence at the end of the movie, which is a piss poor justification for its existence.

The original Death Star battle works well because it is a defining moment for the main protagonist. It brings Luke’s character arc to completion. The Return of the Jedi Death Star battle works not as well because the fighters are ancillary characters whom the story is not about, but is still symbolic of the Rebellion’s decisive and final victory against the Empire. The Star Killer battle has neither of these things and has almost no reason to exist and honestly the movie could be just as effective without it.

Pretty much.

The only other thing it accomplishes is destroying the New Republic, which is a pretty secondary plot point in that film and is really only important in regards to the macro level stakes for the trilogy as a whole.

I agree. There are two things, that I feel were completely unnecessary, and just put there to evoke memories of the OT, Starkiller Base, and the Resistance. The Resistance seemed like a half-baked attempt to get the Rebellion back when there was no real need for one. They cooked up this idea, that the New Republic didn’t want to directly confront the FO, which seems reasonable enough, but it wasn’t really in the film. There was no face for the cowardice, and arrogance of the NR, and so the seemingly ineffectual NR was wiped out of existence before having an identity of its own. I think rather than have this sort of weak side plot, that ended in the destruction of SKB, the focus should have been put more on the growing tensions between Leia, and the leadership of the NR, repositioning her as the true leader on the good side, after having been demonized as the daughter of Darth Vader, and then have the movie end with the shocking destruction of the central system, validating Leia’s point of view. It also would have given Leia more of an arc. The scenes on SKB could still play out in the same way with Han’s death, and the duel, but the moment of Han’s death would coincide with the destruction of the NR. The space battle would then be more a diversion for the rescue of Rey, who is the only person, who has seen the map to Luke, and knows his location (BB-8 could have been damaged, and lost the info). I guess it would be a bleak ending, but it would have raised the stakes, while the movie still ends with Rey finding Luke, as a hint of hope for the future.

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DrDre said:
They cooked up this idea, that the New Republic didn’t want to directly confront the FO, which seems reasonable enough, but it wasn’t really in the film. There was no face for the cowardice, and arrogance of the NR, and so the seemingly ineffectual NR was wiped out of existence before having an identity of its own. I think rather than have this sort of weak side plot, that ended in the destruction of SKB, the focus should have been put more on the growing tensions between Leia, and her supporters, and the leadership of the NR, repositioning her as the true leader on the good side, after having been demonized as the daughter of Darth Vader, and then have the movie end with the shocking destruction of the central system, validating Leia’s point of view. It also would have fiven Leia more of an arc. The scenes on SKB could still play out in the same way with Han’s death, and the duel, but the moment of Han’s death would coincide with the death of the NR. I guess it would be a bleak ending, but it would have raised the stakes, while the movie still ends with Rey finding Luke, as a hint of hope for the future.

That’s a fair assessment. I would have also changed the form of the SKB. Maybe have it be a conduit for energy that travels through hyperspace after which the beam could then emerge some vast distance away from a specialized capital ship. Instead of just another evil globe with no obvious new threat beyond having more laser power.

Yub Nub for life

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I agree with that. I feel a lot of the similarities TFA has with ANH could’ve worked with less complaint if a little bit of breathing room for that information was allowed. I don’t blame the filmmakers, I’m sure the response from the prequels was a loud and clear “NO politics” to them, but even a little bit more context could’ve gone a long way.

I think how Hal’s Restructured and other edits add the brief conversation between Leia and her envoy helps, but I think even a brief, 1-minute scene with her envoy at the Senate with senators arguing about what to do would’ve been nice. It would’ve been nice to have briefly seen Hosnian Prime and the New Republic before it was destroyed, so we could get a better glimpse at what was actually lost.

And as others have said, I think it would’ve been nice to have briefly seen the New Republic in some capacity. It is easy to forget that Luke, Han and Leia helped create an era of piece that lasted even longer than the Empire, and even a short look at that society might’ve reminded the audience of that.

But really the theatrical version of the movie doesn’t allow for this, since the New Republic is destroyed halfway through the movie. But, edits that push the destruction to the climax do allow for that, if people can come up with ways this can actually be seen.

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DominicCobb said:

Yes, “similar” and “the same” are two different things. I think it’s safe to assume on this site we know ANH pretty well, so I’m sure we all were able to pick up on most if not all the similarities on our first viewing of TFA. No need to insult anyone’s intelligence either way by trying to make it out to be something it’s not, we all know what the fact of the matter is (and, at this point, should know that it was obviously intentional). So the debate should not be arguing back and forth about what the similarities are and how many there are, but rather whether or not they work in the film’s favor or are detrimental to it.

Personally, I like to take a more reasoned approach. I get why people don’t like TFA because it’s “too similar,” but I find often people don’t go beyond that, they just think similar=bad, therefore TFA=bad (I shouldn’t have to say this, but obviously not everyone is like this). That is frustrating thing to see, especially when this is a franchise that has always been built off preexisting parts, and has been including echoes of other films within this franchise for years. For me, you can’t take a binary look at it. For instance, the worst part of TFA (in my opinion) is the inclusion of Starkiller Base, not simply because it is a repeat of the Death Star, but because it is only really in the film to repeat the Death Star, and thus feels inorganic to the rest of the story - whereas other repeated elements fit far better and serve a more justifiable purpose in this narrative and actually work in the film’s favor.

It’s hard to tow the line, I don’t think this problem is exclusive to Star Wars either. There’s a lot to say just about the changes within the industry, the critics, and the fans, which are locked in a three-way relationship as long as studios are working with these known properties. That is not the same as it was 10 years ago. Lot of money on the line and lot of wildly different expectations, who to please?

I think “TFA is the same” reaction comes from JJ and all more or less confirming it was their intention to reboot the series, which for many seemed appropriate. Reliving ANH was a big part of the fun factor watching TFA. JJ’s big problem ultimately was those mystery boxes, makes it hard to rewatch and most people I know saw it twice and most enjoyed it less the second time, because underneath the fan service TFA doesn’t set up anything but more mystery boxes, so it feels like a bridge movie to TLJ. It wasn’t the rabid internet fanbase that made it all about their theories, JJ and co. served the ball. It seems that Disney is unsure themselves whether they should zig or zag, how do you give the audience the thing they want but don’t already have? You have to give them what they didn’t know they wanted. So I can respect RJ’s notion that to continue things would need to change, but it’s been a bumpy ride to say the least.

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The problem with the Resistance is basically the result of editing. They were initially designed to be scrappy because the NR wasn’t supporting them, but once you cut out all the scenes where this is explored, essentially you’re left with the question - well, couldn’t they have just made them the New Republic, and they just become scrappy once the senate and fleet are wiped out? It’s a simpler explanation and easier to understand in a fast-paced 2 hour movie, so that’s what they went with. Problem is, even though the crawl suggests as much, at the end of the day the Resistance was not designed that way, and the expanded canon and really the film itself doesn’t support that reframing, so it’s just a little confusing. I wouldn’t say it’s terribly detrimental to the film, but it’s messy.

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act on instinct said:

DominicCobb said:

Yes, “similar” and “the same” are two different things. I think it’s safe to assume on this site we know ANH pretty well, so I’m sure we all were able to pick up on most if not all the similarities on our first viewing of TFA. No need to insult anyone’s intelligence either way by trying to make it out to be something it’s not, we all know what the fact of the matter is (and, at this point, should know that it was obviously intentional). So the debate should not be arguing back and forth about what the similarities are and how many there are, but rather whether or not they work in the film’s favor or are detrimental to it.

Personally, I like to take a more reasoned approach. I get why people don’t like TFA because it’s “too similar,” but I find often people don’t go beyond that, they just think similar=bad, therefore TFA=bad (I shouldn’t have to say this, but obviously not everyone is like this). That is frustrating thing to see, especially when this is a franchise that has always been built off preexisting parts, and has been including echoes of other films within this franchise for years. For me, you can’t take a binary look at it. For instance, the worst part of TFA (in my opinion) is the inclusion of Starkiller Base, not simply because it is a repeat of the Death Star, but because it is only really in the film to repeat the Death Star, and thus feels inorganic to the rest of the story - whereas other repeated elements fit far better and serve a more justifiable purpose in this narrative and actually work in the film’s favor.

I think “TFA is the same” reaction comes from JJ and all more or less confirming it was their intention to reboot the series, which for many seemed appropriate. Reliving ANH was a big part of the fun factor watching TFA. JJ’s big problem ultimately was those mystery boxes, makes it hard to rewatch and most people I know saw it twice and most enjoyed it less the second time, because underneath the fan service TFA doesn’t set up anything but more mystery boxes, so it feels like a bridge movie to TLJ.

See I wouldn’t say that is universal. Lot of people I know saw it more than twice, lot of them people who don’t usually do that. Simple explanation: the film is fun as hell. Truth be told, I liked the film the least the first time I saw it, all the clunky mechanics of the plot and the repeated beats and fan service moments stuck out to me, and made it hard to fully enjoy. But upon my second viewing, knowing exactly what to expect, I was able to just enjoy the ride. The film has a lot to offer beyond mere set up - it’s a great adventure in and of itself, and I think it’s a shame a lot of people get tripped up on the usual memes ‘rehash this, mystery box that.’

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This is a box office prediction/expectation thread, so let’s see some numbers people. What will TRoS opening weekend look like? Domestic totals? Worldwide? Will it have legs?

It’s all just for fun. You can always revise your prediction closer to release. I honestly think it’s all fascinating.

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I knew I’d get caught citing from an anecdote, I don’t want to do that too much because we’ll get lost in the weeds, will say those I know that saw it twice also don’t regularly do that, and I understand not liking it the first time but later it grows on you that’s common. But I don’t think I’m just regurgitating memes that’s a little unfair, the mystery box thing is how JJ writes and he has spoken publicly about that, and for the first film I don’t even mind that, it isn’t like the case of ANH when they didn’t already know they’d have 2 more bites at the apple. I think the movie is a fun ride, the performances from the new characters are very endearing, but as far as what they’re doing there’s not much detail, all pretty boilerplate and I agree with others saying it really would have helped to have just those deleted scenes to establish the universe in more of its own specific context, I’m expecting TRoS to be flashback city.

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act on instinct said:

I knew I’d get caught citing from an anecdote, I don’t want to do that too much because we’ll get lost in the weeds, will say those I know that saw it twice also don’t regularly do that, and I understand not liking it the first time but later it grows on you that’s common. But I don’t think I’m just regurgitating memes that’s a little unfair, the mystery box thing is how JJ writes and he has spoken publicly about that, and for the first film I don’t even mind that, it isn’t like the case of ANH when they didn’t already know they’d have 2 more bites at the apple. I think the movie is a fun ride, the performances from the new characters are very endearing, but as far as what they’re doing there’s not much detail, all pretty boilerplate and I agree with others saying it really would have helped to have just those deleted scenes to establish the universe in more of its own specific context, I’m expecting TRoS to be flashback city.

Just trying to break out of the binary thinking many fans get into. JJ=mystery box, TFA=ANH, therefore not much to offer. It’s, simply put, reductive. JJ has obviously spoken about his mystery box approach in the past, but, besides the fact that people often misinterpret what that even means, it’s unfair to always assume that the only thing going on in a JJ movie is a mystery box. I call it a meme because that’s what it seems like, as a point of analysis it feels shallow - like how people say his visual style is lens flares, when obviously there’s a lot more to it than that one quirk. And so, to my point, I think there is a lot to TFA itself beyond what mysteries it sets up (if any), and I think people too easily forget that. Now, if you don’t care for what it offers beyond the “mysteries and fan service,” fair enough, but that’s not all that’s there.

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I think people have made a lot of fair guesses already, so I would like to revisit this once D23 happens and hopefully that marketing ball starts rolling.

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DominicCobb said:
And so, to my point, I think there is a lot to TFA itself beyond what mysteries it sets up (if any), and I think people too easily forget that. Now, if you don’t care for what it offers beyond the “mysteries and fan service,” fair enough, but that’s not all that’s there.

I really don’t mean to be a jerk about this but could you articulate some examples? TFA had rathtars which is a little different, this thing of abandoned fallen star destroyers to be scavenged that’s new, I wish it were explored more but it’s unique to this trilogy, but sticking just to TFA I’m not sure what else isn’t from the past that also isn’t a mystery, I’m racking my brain a little trying to think of more honestly.

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act on instinct said:

DominicCobb said:
And so, to my point, I think there is a lot to TFA itself beyond what mysteries it sets up (if any), and I think people too easily forget that. Now, if you don’t care for what it offers beyond the “mysteries and fan service,” fair enough, but that’s not all that’s there.

I really don’t mean to be a jerk about this but could you articulate some examples? TFA had rathtars which is a little different, this thing of abandoned fallen star destroyers to be scavenged that’s new, I wish it were explored more but it’s unique to this trilogy, but sticking just to TFA I’m not sure what else isn’t from the past that also isn’t a mystery, I’m racking my brain a little trying to think of more honestly.

I’m talking about more than just in-universe elements. Story (characters and themes), music, locations, production design, costumes, action, humor, direction, acting, editing, etc. etc. In my mind there’s a lot more to a movie than plot points and lore. The movie is an experience in and of itself, separate from its place in the saga as well as a part of it - and it’s a hell of a lot of fun.

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DominicCobb said:

act on instinct said:

DominicCobb said:
And so, to my point, I think there is a lot to TFA itself beyond what mysteries it sets up (if any), and I think people too easily forget that. Now, if you don’t care for what it offers beyond the “mysteries and fan service,” fair enough, but that’s not all that’s there.

I really don’t mean to be a jerk about this but could you articulate some examples? TFA had rathtars which is a little different, this thing of abandoned fallen star destroyers to be scavenged that’s new, I wish it were explored more but it’s unique to this trilogy, but sticking just to TFA I’m not sure what else isn’t from the past that also isn’t a mystery, I’m racking my brain a little trying to think of more honestly.

I’m talking about more than just in-universe elements. Story (characters and themes), music, locations, production design, costumes, action, humor, direction, acting, editing, etc. etc. In my mind there’s a lot more to a movie than plot points and lore. The movie is an experience in and of itself, separate from its place in the saga as well as a part of it - and it’s a hell of a lot of fun.

I think one of the major elements, that makes TFA work, despite it’s derivative nature, is its energy. To me TFA always feels like Star Wars film with the energy and humor of an Indiana Jones film. I think that is one of Abrams’ great talents.

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DominicCobb said:

In my mind there’s a lot more to a movie than plot points and lore. The movie is an experience in and of itself, separate from its place in the saga as well as a part of it - and it’s a hell of a lot of fun.

I’m not really talking about lore, though world building is appreciated, to me TFA feels like they decided not to deal with almost any exposition for the sake of keeping the ride moving, lot of flash and personality sure,
but when it feels too familiar that excitement for me burns out faster. Makes me want to hook into the new and the details of the new are “a story for another time”.

And I don’t think anyone is deriding the production design or the John Williams score, same way that TLJ haters will still admit to the cinematic quality and fantastic work of Steve Yedlin.