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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant — Page 100

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Chase Adams said:

DZ-330 said:

“We’ve decoded the message, and it confirms the worst. Palpatine has returned.”

But why would they have to “decode” a message that everybody just heard in plain English?

I say cut that line altogether. After the message plays, you can just skip straight to the characters saying “Do we really believe this?” and stuff.

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jonh said:

ok, imagine we opened the movie with kylo looking for wayfinder in coruscant, instead of mustafar, and that vader left the wayfinder in the ruins of the jedi temple. poppasketti, a question, how difficult would it be to obtain a 3d model of a ship of the first order to appear in shot just like in ANH and ROTJ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHfLyMAHrQE
if this were possible, we could include the montage of idir_hh, with kylo looking through the ship with the scene removed from TLJ, the temple ruins, and then with rotoscopes and some VFX, kylo entering the temple and finding the wayfinder…

We could probably find a model of a FO Destroyer, jonh. Rotoscoping Kylo onto the Coruscant surface though, that sounds tough! Bold idea!

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poppasketti said:

DominicCobb said:

Personally I’d like to see the first RO one (coming in through the clouds) with the TIEs. I like what poppa did with the Swedish forest footage but I dunno to me the shot still doesn’t quite match either the Mustafar we know or the one we see in TROS.

I agree this would be the best shot. Unfortunately, it’s also the most difficult to paint out the shuttle. I may be able to try that sometime, but I have a few things going on right now! Just in case, though, can someone send me the shot in prores (or something else sourced from the Blu-ray)?

Question: the shot through the clouds is very symmetrical and will definitely be recognizable no matter how you present it. Given that it’s not from a saga film I think it’s okay to be reused, but I wanted to check!

I have a version from Movies Remastered that is from the RO blu-ray but is in .mp4 format… yeah this is definitely a doosey to edit… I don’t have photoshop so I can’t make reference frames but that could be a way to make it look better, but very time consuming.

Clips - for Editors folder -https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mfEISVdMldOKuSNjcjYO2QSggvqI_7-Y

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kewlfish said:

idir_hh said:

majoras_wrath said:

DZ-330 said:

The info is not about Palps, it’s can be about rumors of a hidden Imperial fleet. Or whatever else. Do we ever really see any messages in Star Wars except for Leia’s original one? 😉

To me that scene has always felt like it has been there to establish Hux’s role in the film.

Opening with the secret message scene is very reminding of a James Bond opening where we see him on the end of a different mission

Maybe it could be the Fortnite message? Could play it at the Resistance meeting instead of Poe saying his “Somehow” line. Everyone can be shocked at the same time.

Anyways, I really like your mockup. During the vision sequence, I would take out Kylo’s helmet fondling and instead have the TLJ shot of him from behind on the Star Destroyer, and we don’t see his face. That way the true reveal of him for this movie is still on Mustafar.

Here’s a rough test I did a while a go for that. This version of the broadcast establishes that Palpatine orchestrated the events of the past 2 films so that the Republic would be destroyed and Luke would be out of the picture, leaving the seat of power empty for Palps to take, unopposed.
https://vimeo.com/404134108

I’ve seen this before on Youtube! I’ve always thought that this was a great edit and really the only pluasible way to incorporate the Fortnite message

It’s very rough, I’m working on a 2.0 version which will incorporate better Coruscant footage. Yeah Igot the idea of using the 1313 footage from a video that used it on YouTube.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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 (Edited)

poppasketti said:

jonh said:

ok, imagine we opened the movie with kylo looking for wayfinder in coruscant, instead of mustafar, and that vader left the wayfinder in the ruins of the jedi temple. poppasketti, a question, how difficult would it be to obtain a 3d model of a ship of the first order to appear in shot just like in ANH and ROTJ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHfLyMAHrQE
if this were possible, we could include the montage of idir_hh, with kylo looking through the ship with the scene removed from TLJ, the temple ruins, and then with rotoscopes and some VFX, kylo entering the temple and finding the wayfinder…

We could probably find a model of a FO Destroyer, jonh. Rotoscoping Kylo onto the Coruscant surface though, that sounds tough! Bold idea!

Could use the footage of Kylo walking on the surface of Exogol for him walking towards the Jedi temple.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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DZ-330 said:

Here is a rough markup of my restructure idea, audio and video needs work but I don’t think this is anything that the amazing team of editors here cannot accomplish. I do think the first shot of the Falcon flying by can be cleaned up a lot (looking at you @poppasketti haha). But overall, I feel like this structure allows for a better crawl on the state of the galaxy, not as fast of pacing at the start, and allows for the Mustafar scene to stay in. I wouldn’t also mind switching up Rey’s vision to eliminate Kylo, but that allows him to communicate with the Vader mask before the Mustafar and Palpatine scenes. Let me know your thoughts on this!

Link
PW: fanedit

Hey man!

So we’ll done for trying something different!

I quite like the new opener. Straight to the heroes and a fun chase sequence.

It’s after that it all gets a bit muddier…and through no fault of yours! Just the overall flow and edit of the source material.

My primary issue is that there’s no introduction/re-establishing of Kylo in this version.

He is just intercut with Rey.

There’s no geography and no context for him like this and therefore no motive for him to next be seen fighting on Mustafar.

I do agree with you, this movie is so over edited in it’s original form that it’s really hard to cut around it’s failings and massage it into something more effective than what it already is.

I still think the strongest counter edit lies in JonH’s contribution where Mustafar has been cut altogether and we jump straight into Kylo arriving at Exogol in his TIE.

It might rob us of the cool lightsaber slaughter, but otherwise it’s by far the tidiest launch point for the movie.

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DZ-330 said:

If we make the message about a hidden fleet and have the fortnite broadcast it will be confirming what they just heard.

Not what I meant but, whatever… 😒

Chase Adams said:

I think some of these ideas being thrown around are better suited to Idir’s ideas thread. Much of this discussion about bringing in the message in completly newly created scenes doesn’t seem like something Hal is planning on pursuing.

The line seperating an ideas thread and someone’s actual edit has become blurred. 😐

SOLO - A Colour Corrected Star Wars Story
Helping Hal 9000 and tackling many projects myself so PM me with your fan-editing questions!
(My homeworld is Australia so be wary of timezones)

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Movies Remastered said:

Is it tricky? I’m looking for someone to help add an X-wing to a background in the exactly way?

The tie replacement shot is very tricky because of all the rotoscoping and poor motion tracking with the environment lighting. Adding a ship when you can find a model is not too difficult with Cinema4D. It’s just basically relearning keyframing and lighting in a new program.

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So what about shifting Mustafar to the ending of TLJ? He failed to convince Rey of his ideology and had her slam the mental door on him, he failed to defeat Luke Skywalker, he defeated Snoke. He’s in the right mindset to seek greater power. So we have the ‘find me’ radio scene, then we end on a quick montage of him travelling to Mustafar, slaughtering through the natives, and finding an object which is clearly a map. Mysterious! Angry Kylo leaves us in a nice dark place.

Then, with TROS, we open with him finally having followed the wayfinder.

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Chase Adams said:

DZ-330 said:

If we make the message about a hidden fleet and have the fortnite broadcast it will be confirming what they just heard.

Not what I meant but, whatever… 😒

Chase Adams said:

I think some of these ideas being thrown around are better suited to Idir’s ideas thread. Much of this discussion about bringing in the message in completly newly created scenes doesn’t seem like something Hal is planning on pursuing.

The line seperating an ideas thread and someone’s actual edit has become blurred. 😐

I was thinking the same.

A wish list for ‘what might have been’ is distinctly different from creatively working with what we actually have?

As someone with ZERO technical prowess, who am I to measure what the talented folk here can actually pull off, but hearing some of the suggestions for such monumental changes does make me question what some think can be achieved with the resources available?

I love the creative flair/imagination being demonstrated…but is it realistically attainable within the community?

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smpearce1981 said:

Chase Adams said:

DZ-330 said:

If we make the message about a hidden fleet and have the fortnite broadcast it will be confirming what they just heard.

Not what I meant but, whatever… 😒

Chase Adams said:

I think some of these ideas being thrown around are better suited to Idir’s ideas thread. Much of this discussion about bringing in the message in completly newly created scenes doesn’t seem like something Hal is planning on pursuing.

The line seperating an ideas thread and someone’s actual edit has become blurred. 😐

I was thinking the same.

A wish list for ‘what might have been’ is distinctly different from creatively working with what we actually have?

As someone with ZERO technical prowess, who am I to measure what the talented folk here can actually pull off, but hearing some of the suggestions for such monumental changes does make me question what some think can be achieved with the resources available?

I love the creative flair/imagination being demonstrated…but is it realistically attainable within the community?

One thing about Hal’s edits that I have always respected is that he generally sticks with canon and the original content that the film had (the largest difference he has made was Padme living at the end of ROTS, but that’s really only technicality due to episode 6). I said it a little bit ago, we really can’t cut alot of this movie out because we don’t have deleted scenes to fill in the time. Through this process, I have much more respect for JJ… like how do you end a 9 movie saga and make everyone happy?

Clips - for Editors folder -https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mfEISVdMldOKuSNjcjYO2QSggvqI_7-Y

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Okay so here is the updated crawl with adjustments to fix the issue regarding opening the movie with the heroes finding the message BEFORE we see the Kylo meeting Palpatine intro, and not introducing Palpatine in the crawl:


Episode IX
THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

Hope! The galaxy has united after the
heroic sacrifice of Luke Skywalker.
Countless systems have taken a stand
against the dreaded FIRST ORDER.

Supreme Leader Kylo Ren, haunted by
visions in the force, rages in search
of a hidden enemy, determined to
destroy any threat to his rule.

Meanwhile, General Leia Organa has
dispatched her brave agents to intercept
a mysterious broadcast from the First
Order. A threat of REVENGE from a
sinister voice of the past…


Intercepting the Message -> Rey Training -> Mustafar/Palps -> Falcon returns and briefing

We would remove Kylo during Rey’s vision and open with him on Mustafar later, it is then him searching for the Wayfinder to confirm the message the First Order received and to find Exogol and Palpatine.

As the audience, we can assume the message they received is the Fortnite broadcast.

The Skywalker Saga Viewing Order:
I: C.O.D. | II: T.A.S. | III: L.O.E.
IV: Revisited | V: Revisited | VI: Revisited
VII: Restructured | VIII: Rekindled | IX: Ascendant

This is the way.

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smpearce1981 said:

Chase Adams said:

DZ-330 said:

If we make the message about a hidden fleet and have the fortnite broadcast it will be confirming what they just heard.

Not what I meant but, whatever… 😒

Chase Adams said:

I think some of these ideas being thrown around are better suited to Idir’s ideas thread. Much of this discussion about bringing in the message in completly newly created scenes doesn’t seem like something Hal is planning on pursuing.

The line seperating an ideas thread and someone’s actual edit has become blurred. 😐

I was thinking the same.

A wish list for ‘what might have been’ is distinctly different from creatively working with what we actually have?

As someone with ZERO technical prowess, who am I to measure what the talented folk here can actually pull off, but hearing some of the suggestions for such monumental changes does make me question what some think can be achieved with the resources available?

I love the creative flair/imagination being demonstrated…but is it realistically attainable within the community?

Tbh with the talent in these threads, I’d say everything is realistically attainable.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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idir_hh said:

smpearce1981 said:

Chase Adams said:

DZ-330 said:

If we make the message about a hidden fleet and have the fortnite broadcast it will be confirming what they just heard.

Not what I meant but, whatever… 😒

Chase Adams said:

I think some of these ideas being thrown around are better suited to Idir’s ideas thread. Much of this discussion about bringing in the message in completly newly created scenes doesn’t seem like something Hal is planning on pursuing.

The line seperating an ideas thread and someone’s actual edit has become blurred. 😐

I was thinking the same.

A wish list for ‘what might have been’ is distinctly different from creatively working with what we actually have?

As someone with ZERO technical prowess, who am I to measure what the talented folk here can actually pull off, but hearing some of the suggestions for such monumental changes does make me question what some think can be achieved with the resources available?

I love the creative flair/imagination being demonstrated…but is it realistically attainable within the community?

Tbh with the talent in these threads, everything is realistically attainable.

And I certainly wouldn’t bet against that either, my friend 😃

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If I could edit I would do the opening something like this.

The crawl will not mention Palps, something more in line with Kylo’s power yet his insecurity in himself. A feeling.

Opening shot would be tie fighters going towards kylo’s ship just out in space (probably a reverse shot from TFA) with Kylo on the bridge staring into nothingness. Next shot is Kylo consulting the mask of Vader and seeing the vision from the film with added TLJ shots of Luke on Crait as well as a shot of Vader’s castle (recolored maybe). Then use the shot from the making of where Kylo places the mask on its pedestal.

We then cut to the forest massacre and the scene plays out from there.

What I think can add breathing room is Kylo’s vision, with quick cuts to all sorts of images that Palps is trying to show Kylo. Kylo see’s these visions and goes on a hunt for Palps because he starts to suspect that there is something more out there. After much thought, I do not think the broadcast should be used at all. That aspect is only in the crawl and expanded material anyways. Change it to Kylo consulting his Grandfather for direction and following the voices to Palps on Exegol.

TPM ROTJ ESB TFA TLJ TROS ROTS ANH SOLO RO ATOC

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dgraham414 said:

If I could edit I would do the opening something like this.

The crawl will not mention Palps, something more in line with Kylo’s power yet his insecurity in himself. A feeling.

Opening shot would be tie fighters going towards kylo’s ship just out in space (probably a reverse shot from TFA) with Kylo on the bridge staring into nothingness. Next shot is Kylo consulting the mask of Vader and seeing the vision from the film with added TLJ shots of Luke on Crait as well as a shot of Vader’s castle (recolored maybe). Then use the shot from the making of where Kylo places the mask on its pedestal.

We then cut to the forest massacre and the scene plays out from there.

What I think can add breathing room is Kylo’s vision, with quick cuts to all sorts of images that Palps is trying to show Kylo. Kylo see’s these visions and goes on a hunt for Palps because he starts to suspect that there is something more out there. After much thought, I do not think the broadcast should be used at all. That aspect is only in the crawl and expanded material anyways. Change it to Kylo consulting his Grandfather for direction and following the voices to Palps on Exegol.

Nice thoughts! It would allow us to keep Mustafar and give us breathing room. The only thing that we would miss out on is the epic “first shot” of Kylo on Mustafar, but at this point I would rather have Mustafar and more breathing room I think.

Clips - for Editors folder -https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mfEISVdMldOKuSNjcjYO2QSggvqI_7-Y

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Interesting question regarding Mustafar that I thought I’d throw out:

Is the primary utility in keeping it simply that it works as a placeholder? Everyone seems to agree it doesn’t work as a scene or a sequence on its own, and that it’s more or less fundamentally broken, and the information it imparts isn’t necessary (or even understandable without extra-film context).

What is it about the scene that is prompting people to work so hard (and that work is pretty amazing, too!) in saving it? It doesn’t serve a particularly good story purpose, and the primary reason people seem to want it saved is because if it’s gone, the movie “moves too fast.”

The question seems to be this: Do we remove confusion and unnecessary complication by streamlining the film at its open with a Mustafar-free beginning - or - do we try to add more to the sequence for the sake of its providing “breathing room” at the beginning of the movie.

The aesthetics of it, and its ability to “take up time” seem to be its only real selling points. And that’s not a disqualification, either! Star Wars often has moments that exist solely because they look cool (Lightspeed Skipping is a great example from this very movie, in fact) so if Mustafar really looks that cool, then it’s fulfilling its only real purpose, and should be left in.

we really can’t cut alot of this movie out because we don’t have deleted scenes to fill in the time.

Is the point of an edit to make the story better, or to fill time? Why is hitting a pre-determined runtime a goal? Isn’t precisely the same instinct that led to this film’s problems in the first place? it’s possible that the flow and pacing of the movie actually feels better even if the movie is a fair bit shorter than its theatrical runtime was. It’s hard to judge without trying a bunch of ideas in their filmic context and getting a real sense of how that moves from scene to scene through the movie.

Also: reminder that yesterday, Neerb pointed out that removing Mustafar actually cleans up REY’s motivations and actions later in the film

https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1346448

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If we add a vision at the beginning of the opening, I believe it should be quieter. Jumping straight from a flashy vision to the middle of an action scene wouldn’t really fix the whiplash effect and abysmal pacing. Yeah the vision could contextualize the later scene better, but maybe we could insert slower establishing shots of Exegol/Mustafar/the Sith fleet/whatever to fill space between the quicker frames of Han, Luke, etc. and let the vision have more breathing room, before moving on to Kylo’s battle with the cultists.

I like DZ-330 restructure, and I don’t mind ditching a cold opening in favor of a fast, Bond-style action sequence. I’d rather not have Kylo and Vader’s helmet interspersed with Rey’s training, so we can keep those shots for later and justify Kylo reforging his helmet as in DominicCobb’s version. Rey’s flashbacks should be a side-consequence of her gradually losing her temper, thus showing her struggles with the dark side early in the film. Also, that way, we can reveal Kylo’s face on Mustafar.

As a minor fuss, if we open the film with the Falcon action scene, the moment where the TIEs arrive should be rescored. Emperor Palpatine’s theme doesn’t feel right when we haven’t seen him yet at this point or known of his connections to the First Order.

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Broom Kid said:

Interesting question regarding Mustafar that I thought I’d throw out:

Is the primary utility in keeping it simply that it works as a placeholder? Everyone seems to agree it doesn’t work as a scene or a sequence on its own, and that it’s more or less fundamentally broken, and the information it imparts isn’t necessary (or even understandable without extra-film context).

What is it about the scene that is prompting people to work so hard (and that work is pretty amazing, too!) in saving it? It doesn’t serve a particularly good story purpose, and the primary reason people seem to want it saved is because if it’s gone, the movie “moves too fast.”

The question seems to be this: Do we remove confusion and unnecessary complication by streamlining the film at its open with a Mustafar-free beginning - or - do we try to add more to the sequence for the sake of its providing “breathing room” at the beginning of the movie.

The aesthetics of it, and its ability to “take up time” seem to be its only real selling points. And that’s not a disqualification, either! Star Wars often has moments that exist solely because they look cool (Lightspeed Skipping is a great example from this very movie, in fact) so if Mustafar really looks that cool, then it’s fulfilling its only real purpose, and should be left in.

we really can’t cut alot of this movie out because we don’t have deleted scenes to fill in the time.

Is the point of an edit to make the story better, or to fill time? Why is hitting a pre-determined runtime a goal? Isn’t precisely the same instinct that led to this film’s problems in the first place? it’s possible that the flow and pacing of the movie actually feels better even if the movie is a fair bit shorter than its theatrical runtime was. It’s hard to judge without trying a bunch of ideas in their filmic context and getting a real sense of how that moves from scene to scene through the movie.

Also: reminder that yesterday, Neerb pointed out that removing Mustafar actually cleans up REY’s motivations and actions later in the film

https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1346448

I mean the big thing against Mustafar being in the film is that it isn’t explained but Hal’s edit of the crawl specifically states why Kylo is at Mustafar… how is this scene still confusing, all of the questions are answered… why is Kylo here? Oh he is looking for a weapon to solidify his power, which leads him to the Wayfinder (sound bite of Palpatine now added saying “Find me”) this incident sets off the plot. A lot of people have been letting their knowledge of what the scene could have been prevent them wanting to work on salvaging the scene at all.

A lot of people (including myself, so bias) have worked on keeping this portion of the movie in… so if we remove it all together… all that work we did goes into the trash. Just so we can cut a minute out of the movie.

Clips - for Editors folder -https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mfEISVdMldOKuSNjcjYO2QSggvqI_7-Y

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kewlfish said:
A lot of people (including myself, so bias) have worked on keeping this portion of the movie in… so if we remove it all together… all that work we did goes into the trash. Just so we can cut a minute out of the movie.

I get that - and I don’t want it to seem like people’s work is unimportant, but conversely, you just also essentially argued that you did a ton of work to enhance one minute of film that can be just as effectively summed up and easily removed with a line of text in the crawl. It’s why this one beat is such a 50/50 for so many people looking in here 😃

Is it in there because it looks cool? Because it looks cool and provides “breathing room?” Can it be made to look even cooler? Those are all good and valid reasons to put a lot of time and effort and remarkable, impressive work into saving that one minute, and there are a ton of great options and possibilities for that sequence, either making it a little longer, or chopping it up and putting it in other places, etc.

But I would argue that using the sunk cost fallacy to fuel editing decisions can lead to some pretty rough creative dilemmas as well.

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Broom Kid said:

Is the point of an edit to make the story better, or to fill time? Why is hitting a pre-determined runtime a goal?

I don’t think the issue has anything to do with runtime. It’s more about not smashing straight to the Palpatine reveal. If nothing else, the Mustafar provides a little buildup and anticipation of the Palpatine reveal. In a weird way, Mustafar and Exegol are edited like they are one scene, building towards a climax.

kewlfish said:

A lot of people (including myself, so bias) have worked on keeping this portion of the movie in… so if we remove it all together… all that work we did goes into the trash.

“That is the burden of all editors.”

Sadly, I don’t think this should be a consideration in whether something gets used. The work is always appreciated, and fuels ideas and discussions that lead towards a final decision, but if it doesn’t fit, it doesn’t fit. I learned a lot from my former boss. We spent an entire shoot day getting one shot, and in the edit room he decided to cut it without hesitation. It turned out we didn’t need the shot and he was right.

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Broom Kid said:

kewlfish said:
A lot of people (including myself, so bias) have worked on keeping this portion of the movie in… so if we remove it all together… all that work we did goes into the trash. Just so we can cut a minute out of the movie.

I get that - and I don’t want it to seem like people’s work is unimportant, but conversely, you just also essentially argued that you did a ton of work to enhance one minute of film that can be just as effectively summed up and easily removed with a line of text in the crawl. It’s why this one beat is such a 50/50 for so many people looking in here 😃

Is it in there because it looks cool? Because it looks cool and provides “breathing room?” Can it be made to look even cooler? Those are all good and valid reasons to put a lot of time and effort and remarkable, impressive work into saving that one minute, and there are a ton of great options and possibilities for that sequence, either making it a little longer, or chopping it up and putting it in other places, etc.

But I would argue that using the sunk cost fallacy to fuel editing decisions can lead to some pretty rough creative dilemmas as well.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree… this is Hal’s edit and his past comments have shown that he is more interested in keeping it in with the “Find me” sound and an establishing shot. If that’s what he wants, that’s what I’m going to try and help out with.

Clips - for Editors folder -https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mfEISVdMldOKuSNjcjYO2QSggvqI_7-Y

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poppasketti said:

Broom Kid said:

Is the point of an edit to make the story better, or to fill time? Why is hitting a pre-determined runtime a goal?

I don’t think the issue has anything to do with runtime. It’s more about not smashing straight to the Palpatine reveal. If nothing else, the Mustafar provides a little buildup and anticipation of the Palpatine reveal. In a weird way, Mustafar and Exegol are edited like they are one scene, building towards a climax.

kewlfish said:

A lot of people (including myself, so bias) have worked on keeping this portion of the movie in… so if we remove it all together… all that work we did goes into the trash.

“That is the burden of all editors.”

Sadly, I don’t think this should be a consideration in whether something gets used. The work is always appreciated, and fuels ideas and discussions that lead towards a final decision, but if it doesn’t fit, it doesn’t fit. I learned a lot from my former boss. We spent an entire day getting one shot, and in the edit room he decided to cut it without hesitation. It turned out we didn’t need the shot and he was right.

Phew that must have been a punch to the gut and probably took a lot longer than anything I could ever do lol

Clips - for Editors folder -https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mfEISVdMldOKuSNjcjYO2QSggvqI_7-Y