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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (WIP) — Page 247

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Hal 9000 said:

A hallmark of Star Wars is a constantly changing sense of continuity. There’s nothing smooth about it. The EU are nanobots trying to heal somebody constantly being injured in all manner of ways. You can appreciate the effort and do some of it in your own head, but the ST renewed the franchise’s commitment to never planning ahead and constantly retconning everything.

Applauds loudly

Who cares about “canon” when doing fan edits. Part of fan edits is to fix issues. So let’s be real, even before Disney stepped in with their “Let’s not plan anything and see what happens” approach Star Wars cannon had some blaring holes and inconsistencies. And no, I don’t want to turn this into a general discussion thread but the idea of adhering to “canon” is silly and not going to happen with this edit.

Plus, just for fun and giggles, to adhere to “canon” then we would have to remove everything about Leia and training with Luke, since does not train AT ALL to be a Jedi in the canon book Bloodlines. (Just involved in politics) Boy … that’ll really mess up with the last part of the movie removing that part AND Leia’s lightsaber for the sake of canon.

See why adhering to “canon” is silly?

Do NOT self-destruct!

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EC Henry made another fun video making up an original TIE fighter design based off a slightly different, and obscure, model used in ROTJ. It could be nice to make an alternate version of the TIE/X-Wing shot with this design. This way you could keep the imagery, but the TIE doesn’t look exactly like the typical TIE fighter, leaving the possibility open that this fighter could have light speed capabilities. I like the shuttle version too, of course.

It would be nice to throw it into a ROTJ edit to set it up and add another interesting ship to the movie, but that’s a story for another thread.

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That’s a reasonable idea, but my issue within the SW films in their own Platonic realm is that ANH makes a point about TIEs not having hyperdrives, so I’d prefer having something distinct that we do know to have them.

Because if a “well, technically” answer works, the question was invalid.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hal 9000 said:

That’s a reasonable idea, but my issue within the SW films in their own Platonic realm is that ANH makes a point about TIEs not having hyperdrives, so I’d prefer having something distinct that we do know to have them.

Because if a “well, technically” answer works, the question was invalid.

I don’t understand this point though. Is technically not allowed to progress over 40 years?

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Not when it’s buried in the wreckage of the second Death Star.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hal 9000 said:

Not when it’s buried in the wreckage of the second Death Star.

Pfft you don’t know that Hal, that TIE could have taken its time to get its Masters in HyperDrive Mechanics via online classes buried in the wreckage.

Do NOT self-destruct!

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I really believe the best middle point between featuring a TIE fighter or a ship with hyperspace capabilities would be a TIE Advanced, like Vader’s in A New Hope. It’s recognizable and not that big of a strech as taking a regular TIE but renaming it TIE Scout.

I’m totally fine with the Imperial shuttle, though, and it makes sense in this film because the audience catches a glimpse of a wrecked shuttle in the Death Star scrap zone.

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hedgesmfg said:

I’m already sad about the loss of the Episode III line, but I understand why you cut it.

I think I missed something. What Episode III line?

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axlanian said:

hedgesmfg said:

I’m already sad about the loss of the Episode III line, but I understand why you cut it.

I think I missed something. What Episode III line?

I believe they’re referring to “the dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural.”

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Yeah guys, unless the edit’s specific goal is to adhere strictly to existing canon…

jarbear said:

Who cares about “canon” when doing fan edits.

…why bother making a fan edit if you aren’t changing stuff, canon be damned?

a trolling bantha

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DZ-330 said:

I thought this thread was for a discussion of Hal’s edit. Not what is canon versus what is not? Are you editing Darth Jar Jar into the Sith Eternal crowd still???

Mesa all da Sith-a.

Do NOT self-destruct!

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On another topic, could someone go back and find the versions of Force ghost Ben that people played around with for the ending? I’m also curious on which “look” for that shot people had agreed on.

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It wasn’t the sequel trilogy, it was Abrams’ and Terrio’s final script, and even that was instigated by Carrie’s death. Everything else has been pretty well planned out (even if fans didn’t like the plans or didn’t guess everything prior to a release).

As for lightsaber colors, things that small just don’t matter in future instalments. A story decision in Clone Wars (to further visualise Ahsoka’s and Anakin’s relationship) superseded the previous description of events with the green sabers. Time that isn’t expressed on screen or in prominent prose shifts (a timeline on wookiepedia is not more relevant than the media it’s describing, for example).

Also, a lot of these details won’t be revisited, especially not right away. They aren’t gonna do a prequel that goes to Kef Bir any time soon, and there’s no current reason to revisit the planet any time soon.

So, be more casual with the canon. Creators are. Canon is only important until it gets in the way of story.

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JakeRyan17 said:

It wasn’t the sequel trilogy, it was Abrams’ and Terrio’s final script, and even that was instigated by Carrie’s death. Everything else has been pretty well planned out (even if fans didn’t like the plans or didn’t guess everything prior to a release).

Yeah, Trevorrow’s initial script for TROS was written more than a year before the release of TLJ, and the same applies to TLJ as well. Watching the first two movies and then reading Trevorrow’s first draft, there’s a clear through-line in the entire trilogy. It’s just that Carrie Fisher’s death threw a spanner in the works.

As for lightsaber colors, things that small just don’t matter in future instalments. A story decision in Clone Wars (to further visualise Ahsoka’s and Anakin’s relationship) superseded the previous description of events with the green sabers. Time that isn’t expressed on screen or in prominent prose shifts (a timeline on wookiepedia is not more relevant than the media it’s describing, for example).

Also, a lot of these details won’t be revisited, especially not right away. They aren’t gonna do a prequel that goes to Kef Bir any time soon, and there’s no current reason to revisit the planet any time soon.

So, be more casual with the canon. Creators are. Canon is only important until it gets in the way of story.

That’s completely true. Canon has never been really important, and only the most egregious instances of self-contradiction really bother me. In the end, it’s just a fictional story.

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axlanian said:

hedgesmfg said:

I’m already sad about the loss of the Episode III line, but I understand why you cut it.

I think I missed something. What Episode III line?

“The darkside of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural”

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Hal 9000 said:

Not when it’s buried in the wreckage of the second Death Star.

I’m not deliberately knit-picking, infact what I’m about to say is not supposed to be contentious, but offering a perspective that hopefully allows more freedom to explore fun/interesting ideas without being beholden to imaginary (or ‘in universe’) science.

I totally respect your point about 40 years of technological development not applying to an OT era vehicle that has laid in decay, without modification for all of those 40 years.

My counter point is this:-

If the justification for dismissing TIE hyperspace capability is solely based on the line from ANH, I’d grant the concept a little more leeway.

  1. if it’s fair to consider that the X-wing is the ‘good guy’ equivalent of the TIE in approx size and spec (I would argue it is, considering it it’s the primary alliance/resistance fighter depicted across the series and the fact there is a game titled ‘X-wing vs TIE fighter’ - alluding to parity), then the X-wing should similarly not be light speed capable either

…which follows since we never saw the X-Wing use a hyperspace drive in ANH, so at the time the line was uttered the X-wing seemed equally beholden to the same principle within the context of that movie.

(Rogue One DID later depict that they are/were hyperspace capable during the ANH timeframe but is it possible that was a retcon or an oversight based on ROTJ capability??? We’ll probably never know, if you consider that back in 1977 SW lore was non-existent, no bible, no visual dictionary’s, no ‘science of SW’ books.

Hence, anything and everything written or explored since those original script pages were written is in addition (or even amendment) to the original intentions.

My point is, I’m sure none of the SW creators involved have lost a shred of sleep over such minor details if it served the story or the visuals …and so we probably shouldn’t either)

Anyhow, I digress.

What we definitely do know is that by ROTJ (approx 6 years in universe time) the X-wing was definitively shown to have hyperspace capability.

That can be attributed to in-universe technological development, the creative whims of GL, improved visual effects, a higher budget and the audience’s demand for greater spectacle…or ALL of the above?!

  1. Since the TROS TIE being referred to here is a defunct unit from within the DS2, who knows what the empire was working on in there?

Maybe it was a prototype? Or maybe even generic TIE’s were hyperspace capable by this point in order to match the capabilities of the enemy equivalent.

If you look across real history especially involving combat and conflict, innovation and development moves forward at hugely more advanced rate because it’s driven by the necessity to gain an advantage over your adversary’s.

WW2 at the start of the conflict it was prop planes, by the end it was jets! 6 years. Real world.

It’s not unreasonable to assume that proportionate/parallel developments in fighter propulsion would occur in the SW universe too?

  1. As such, just because we never saw a TIE use hyperspace either in or by ROTJ doesn’t mean they hadn’t been made capable? The movies were always told from the heroes perspective and so we never explored or followed the Empire to depict their journey to and from battle in the same way we did with the rebel fleet during those assaults.

All we know is that the movies never depicted an instance where a TIE entered or exited hyperspace…for whatever reason…but that doesn’t conclusively mean that they couldn’t - at least by the time the battle of Endor took place?

Anyhow, there’s nothing (that I’m aware of) that settles it either way and that means you can really ‘choose your own adventure’ on the matter?

To bring this full circle, my point is this:-

The SW universe has ALWAYS played fast and loose with it’s science.

It’s not old school Star Trek.

It’s always been science fantasy over science fiction, and is arguably a lot better for not letting the science dictate the fun.

So, to ensure that I’m making it very clear that I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’ll end on this:-

On the subject of ‘the creative whims of the creator’ this is YOUR edit. If you don’t want or are not interested in TIE’s being hyperspace capable, that’s your choice and your vision. And that’s cool. You don’t need to justify it any more than that.

BUT don’t squander your time and energy on a throwaway line from 40+ years ago or let it dictate or limit your creative options.

At this point in the SW franchise we’ve already seen that the creative teams involved across the movies themselves are not beholden to much (ESPECIALLY the tech!), hence why we’ve seen changes, retcons and the in-universe introduction and reliance on ‘a certain point of view’.

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As far as technology acceleration, look no further than the first Death Star taking ~25 years and the second taking ~6 years to build.

And trust me: story is more important at Lucasfilm than continuity or canon technicalities. If you think it improves the story, that’s what you go with. Not everyone will agree with you, but it’s your cut. You’re the new director, you call the shots. If someone doesn’t like it, they can learn iMovie, Premiere Rush, Final Cut Pro, Premiere Pro, Avid Media First, or Avid Media Composer.

EDIT:

Also, if anyone has aspirations for a career in editing, Avid Media First is free and works exactly like the expensive Media Composer all the pros use. It is cantankerous and annoying, but it’s the real deal and it’s free.

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I see you are inpatient Hal and tired of the editing hault, or rather, the long wait to finish it. So I’ll give you my few cents to maybe help keep the spirit going;

I haven’t seen TROS. And I work at a damn cinema! No interest. I haven’t watched original films since before TFA. I’ve watched TFA and TLJ only to edit them, and not ever since.

I follow this thread, and await this final edit, just to see if you can pull of a film I will actually somewhat enjoy, as I don’t even dare to watch the original. This is the only interesting part left of Star Wars for me. This tiny, little thread.

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Well, Anjohan, I’ll welcome your thoughts once you see the whole thing! Thanks for posting.

And, smpearce1981, your post is entirely reasonable and correct. The TIE thing doesn’t bother me per se, but it was an opportunity to make a change that steered clear of what feels like an incongruity. Otherwise we’d never make changes like this and always defer to and accept official explanations.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hal 9000 said:

Well, Anjohan, I’ll welcome your thoughts once you see the whole thing! Thanks for posting.

And, smpearce1981, your post is entirely reasonable and correct. The TIE thing doesn’t bother me per se, but it was an opportunity to make a change that steered clear of what feels like an incongruity. Otherwise we’d never make changes like this and always defer to and accept official explanations.

Or we could all pretend someone had bothered to write the following scene for the actual movie:-

Ben searched the broken hanger for a ship. Any ship. All he needed was to get off the planet. He’d worry about how he got to Exegol later.

He tried two ships. First an old shuttle, but it’s power core was smashed beyond repair. Second an old TIE. To his disbelief it powered up immediately. And it had a hyperdrive! What was this? Some sort of prototype? What were the odds!

Ben didn’t waste any time questioning it. He’d learnt that from his father.

He attributed it to the will of the force and moved on, he didn’t need distractions right now. He needed to get back in the fight. He hit the controls and the TIE departed the twisted hanger.

As he entered the atmosphere, he laid in the co-ordinates for Exegol.

‘I’m coming Rey’ he said to himself as he waited for the navi-computer to finish plotting it’s course.

The lights signalled. He was ready. But for a split second before he hit the jump, he paused and once again heard the words of his old man echo through his subconscious. ‘Punch it!’

Ben’s caught his lips moving in synchronisation with the memory. As the star field began to wrap itself around the ship, he smiled. He suddenly felt a lot like his old self…

Fade out.

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smpearce1981 said:

Hal 9000 said:

Well, Anjohan, I’ll welcome your thoughts once you see the whole thing! Thanks for posting.

And, smpearce1981, your post is entirely reasonable and correct. The TIE thing doesn’t bother me per se, but it was an opportunity to make a change that steered clear of what feels like an incongruity. Otherwise we’d never make changes like this and always defer to and accept official explanations.

Or we could all pretend someone had bothered to write the following scene for the actual movie:-

Ben searched the broken hanger for a ship. Any ship. All he needed was to get off the planet. He’d worry about how he got to Exegol later.

He tried two ships. First an old shuttle, but it’s power core was smashed beyond repair. Second an old TIE. To his disbelief it powered up immediately. And it had a hyperdrive! What was this? Some sort of prototype? What were the odds!

Ben didn’t waste any time questioning it. He’d learnt that from his father.

He attributed it to the will of the force and moved on, he didn’t need distractions right now. He needed to get back in the fight. He hit the controls and the TIE departed the twisted hanger.

As he entered the atmosphere, he laid in the co-ordinates for Exegol.

‘I’m coming Rey’ he said to himself as he waited for the navi-computer to finish plotting it’s course.

The lights signalled. He was ready. But for a split second before he hit the jump, he paused and once again heard the words of his old man echo through his subconscious. ‘Punch it!’

Ben’s caught his lips moving in synchronisation with the memory. As the star field began to wrap itself around the ship, he smiled. He suddenly felt a lot like his old self…

Fade out.

That’s so good. Wish we had seen it / read it in the novelization

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Chase Adams said:

smpearce1981 said:

To his disbelief it powered up immediately. And it had a hyperdrive! What was this? Some sort of prototype? What were the odds!

Oh my god… Is that from the novelisation? Jesus Christ.

Thanks man, but nope.

I just threw it together when thinking about how to explain/rationalise the problem earlier.

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Having to write that up is literally the epitome of the problem btw

edit: not to mention how that “solution” almost makes it worse. “ben got lucky, dw about it we’re moving on”