The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant Special Edition (WIP) — Page 4

The reason Luke’s line is so on the nose is because it needs to be. It needs to dispell the notion that Palpatine created them, at least for the moment. “To bring balance” would work, except for the fact that we need to reestablish the stakes when Rey confronts Palpatine. Rey logically needs to tell him exactly what Luke tells her, that she was made to end him. That’s when he informs her that he always wanted her to kill him, so Rey can wonder if perhaps Luke was wrong that the Force made them for purely good purposes. It re-opens the door to Palpatine manipulating the Force to his will in creating that life. It’s the second twist of the movie that needs to be there no matter what. A more subtle line would make the good perspective on their origin the objective truth, which is what I’m trying to avoid.

And yeah I can definitely remove the Knights thing. It was just something I was experimenting with. But I do think “Most impressive” works pretty well.

It makes sense to me at least, seeing as how Anakin was born around the time that Palpatine was rising to power, and Rey was born as Palpatine cheats death.

Saying that they were made to “end the Sith” instead could work since it actually aligns exactly with what Rey tells Palpatine later on. The only problem is that it makes the case that Palpatine had any part in creating them pretty weak, despite the manipulation he tries on Rey. Using something extremely vague like what you said would actually be an admission that they DO belong to Palpatine, so he definitely has to say “The Force made us”.

Thanks for pointing out the hood thing, I think that has led me to decide that we should replace their exchange there with more action. Perhaps the Vader shot and line can stay, but Kylo’s response would have to go. His hood comes off later mid-swing, which makes sense enough to me.

As for Luke’s line, I think we might have to go back to a previous draft of the line I had: “He cannot claim what belongs to the Force.” It would be disappointing, to me at least, that Palpatine cannot twist what Luke directly says about their destiny (being to end him) into something that serves his own purposes, but it’s whatever. I guess the concept is still there if you read into it a bit.

Here’s how that might look:

Rey: “I saw myself on the dark throne. I won’t let it happen, I’m doing what you did.”
Luke: “I was wrong. Pushing Ben toward that throne was my greatest fear. What are you most afraid of?”
Rey: “Myself.”
Luke: “Because you’re a Palpatine? He has no claim over what belongs to the Force. That is for you to decide. Some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny, if you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost…”

This helps make Rey taking on the Skywalker name a heck of a lot better, so I’m down with this change even though it forgoes some Palpatine shenanigans.

Well done with the Vader scene. It works really well for me except the ending.

Vader telling Kylo what to do and Kylo following those orders right after he beat Vader doesn’t make sense to me, so I would cut that line at least.
And personally, I’m also not a fan of the “Most impressive.” Feels fan-service-y to me and I do think silence works better here.

My intent was to convey that, despite Palpatine’s attempts to manipulate and claim dominion over individuals made by the Force, ultimately, it’s the choices of those individuals, like Rey, that define their paths. This aligns with the idea that the Force itself is beyond the control of any one party, be it the Sith or the Jedi.

However, I see how the wording might suggest a more partisan view of the Force, which wasn’t my intention. Luke’s journey in TLJ taught him about the balance of the Force and the errors in the Jedi’s previous ways. So, in reflecting on that, perhaps a more fitting line would emphasize the neutrality and balance of the Force, rather than suggesting it belongs to any specific side. Maybe something like, “Nobody can claim those the Force made. That choice belongs to you.” This could better reflect Luke’s evolved understanding of the Force as something that isn’t ‘owned’ or overly partisan, but rather exists as a balance, with individuals playing a role in maintaining or disrupting that balance through their choices.

Here’s how that would sound:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZaL9WFfyBjS9Pw4eS3KpO6sptsTRkxou/view?usp=sharing

I think even in the case that Palpatine instilled an extra dose of the dark side when he ordered Rey and Anakin through the Midi-chlorian Express, they would still only belong to the Force itself, as Palpatine is not the dark side personified, he’s just all the Sith. So I think this works quite well, all things considered. It’s about detaching the will of the Force from those who try to wield it. True, Rey does choose to be a Jedi, but it wasn’t forced upon her (no pun intended) like in the case of Anakin.

But Palpatine is only ever claiming her and Anakin as his own because he may or may not have done a Build-a-Bear while the Force was making them, choosing what “pieces” to add. The argument is whether that makes them entirely his or not. I really think Luke needs to disavow this notion, since they are autonomous people who can decide these things for themselves.

I’ve already explained the destiny side of things through the dyad. I’m not sure it’s a good idea to suggest a person can overcome that alone, as Anakin’s story proves otherwise. I think the idea that strong connections through the Force can break fate and foresight lines up nicely within the saga. Palpatine never saw Vader betraying him in his last moments because it was spurred by the love between a father and son. And Rey is stopped from striking down Palpatine and fulfilling her destiny because her and Ben share a more romantic love.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

No problem! Hey krylozdac, would you mind drafting up those same tests with these lines instead? I just want to see how it would sound.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HkIoQzFIqkMwVeJ9Hl-k3Q_zAmiOhREA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ciu5FBt4cltg0hBY4MVA48r_Y7wVw57y/view?usp=sharing

Better late than never!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QefSEGWnl20lQNRj8iIqGTQ7tPBLpHOU/view?usp=sharing

I will paste here the original intent of this idea when it was for Ascendant:

Basically, given that we see in the crawl that Kylo is on Mustafar chasing whispers of a hidden power and we see Vader’s castle, what if as soon as Kylo finishes killing the cultists he hears the voice of Vader guiding him towards the Wayfinder and that’s what makes him turn his head so suddenly?

I think this way the audience can make a stronger relation between Vader, his castle, the Wayfinder and it quickly reintroduces Kylo Ren’s existence in the shadow of his grandfather. By doing this, when he arrives on Exegol, the reveal of “I have been every voice you have ever heard inside your head” feels even more surprising given that its giving you a twist on the earlier assumption that Vader was talking to him and also when Palpy says “Become what your grandfather could not” it now feels like its something that has meaning to him as a character.

losthead said:

I’m not sure Anakin disproves that, though. He very well might have been able to resist Palpatine alone, but he chose the Dark Side. I think the importance choice in one’s fate is something that shouldn’t be understated. Rey could easily fall the same way as Anakin and Ben, and she’s been manipulated by Palpatine the same way, but its her choice not to that decides her destiny.

The trouble would then be that Luke’s decision to isolate himself on Ahch-To is really stupid. All he has to do that whole time is tell Kylo that his fate isn’t set in stone, and that he gets to make his own. Instead, Luke tells Leia AND Rey that he essentially is irredeemable because of what he saw in his future.

“This is not going to go the way you think.”

“I’ve come to confront him. But I can’t save him.”

He never tells Kylo to reconsider things when he projects himself on Crait, so there’s clearly something there that can’t be undone in terms of his destiny. At least until Luke becomes aware of the dyad.

EDIT: For clarification, all of this in TLJ is likely residual of setting things up for the DotF script. Kylo WAS indeed supposed to be irredeemable in Episode IX, with no chance to be saved. So TROS desperately needs a reason, even if it is kinda half-assed, as to why something as unavoidable as fate can be overcome by BOTH Rey and Ben.

TL;DR - Destiny may set the stage, but it is the characters’ connections that ultimately define their paths.

Thanks for doing that, krlozdac. It sounds great! I’ll definitely include that in the edit.

I interpreted Luke’s statements as Luke specifically not being able to save Ben, since he was responsible for his turn. It would be like Obi Wan trying to redeem Vader, it’s never gonna happen.

If that were the case, hinventon, then he would have been chill with Rey leaving to try to save Ben, or even communicating with him in the first place. Luke once did the same thing with Vader, so he should logically have no reason to protest this. The only way any of this makes sense is if Luke truly believes Kylo can’t be saved during the events of TLJ, and realizes a loophole in TROS - that being true love for others being enough to draw you out of a dark fate.

You could also say that Rey leaving to face Ben and Snoke before she’s ready is the same thing that happened to Luke in Empire when he got his ass handed to him. And at least in TLJ, Luke’s right, it doesn’t go the way she thinks.

We’re entering the territory of personal interpretation at this point, so I think we need to go back to the line itself.

“Because you’re a Palpatine? Nobody can claim those the Force made. That choice belongs to you.”

Is there any particular reason that this doesn’t work? At least from my perspective, Rey’s destiny is intertwined with Palpatine’s claim over her. So we essentially get the same interpretation out of this without opening up this huge can of worms concerning destiny in Star Wars.

EDIT: One other thing worth noting. Notice how Rey doesn’t say that her greatest fear is ending up on the throne. She says her greatest fear is herself. This is why Luke’s response directly has to answer why she as a person is not the same as Palpatine. In other words, this definitely isn’t the time to steer the conversation back to her vision/destiny.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

"Nobody can claim those the Force made.”

I understand what you’re going for but I believe from a dramatic standpoint this wording kind of defuses the tension for the audience on whether or not she will prevail at the end against Palpy. This basically implies that she will win because it’s rigged by Deus Ex anyway.

Also, it’s not a really true statement. Palpatine definitely claimed Anakin as his servant for the bulk of his life, even though he was made by the Force. Sure, he came around at the end but that was after decades of being used as a tool.

And something like “the Force chose us, to bring balance” doesn’t also diffuse the tension in the same way? Or anything suggesting the idea that Rey’s vision doesn’t really mean squat if she just tries hard enough? See how we’ve come full circle? This is why such a heavy-handed statement like they were made to end him was kinda necessary. It has to be something that could be perceived as good in the moment, only for it to be turned into something terrifying by Palpatine later on. In other words, whatever Luke says HAS to have a double meaning which could satisfy both of this project’s valid takeaways:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

1. The Force made the Skywalkers and Rey because Palpatine (and the Sith) were creating an imbalance in the Force. Palpatine, who believes himself to be a master over the Force, is merely taking credit for the life which was created to oppose him.
2. Perhaps the Force did want to create this life to counter him, but Palpatine influenced how the Force made it so they had a greater portion of the dark side and a destiny for power. This would explain Anakin’s pull to the dark, the struggles of each of his descendants with the dark in the sequels, and finally Rey’s own darkness that she grapples with - in this film particularly.

I’m yet to see an alternative that is satisfying in this way. The canon answer IS literally that Anakin was made to kill Palpatine and the Sith. It makes sense that Rey would be made to do the same thing when he cheats death, as no other Sith has done that before according to RotS. The concept this edit proposes is that Palpatine himself may have had a hand in how his cosmic adversaries were made so they’d only end up helping him.