Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t mind Rey Palpatine’s plot, but one of the most common criticisms is that the trilogy feels disjointed. Rey was only supposed to be Solo, and this shows in TFU (considering that Rey isn’t even her name, as seen in the film).
Hal9000’s edits made a big improvement in connecting the 3 films, so I asked him if he could do it. Respecting the only real plan that JJ Abrams had for the trilogy (and previously also Lucas) would make a further leap in quality if managed well.
This would solve one of my biggest issues with the film. The other is a problem that cannot be solved unless you are PixelJoker [a lot of sequences are missing and the gaps between scenes are very noticeable (this is also improved in these versions but you can always see it, obviously miracles cannot be worked )]
This further discussion doesn’t belong in this thread, TheStrange. Hal has said no.
Ascendent is now a 5 year old project with 700 pages of chat and 5 versions. It’s clearly a mature project whose vision is well established, and about which a lot of options have been considered.
A radical change to context this late in the game isn’t going to be appropriate - what you’ve described needs a branch project of its own. You’d be best either creating a thread for the idea and seeing who bites, or, much better, picking up the skill and executing your vision.
This further discussion doesn’t belong in this thread, TheStrange. Hal has said no.
Ascendent is now a 5 year old project with 700 pages of chat and 5 versions. It’s clearly a mature project whose vision is well established, and about which a lot of options have been considered.
Why be so rude? I was replying to another person. It’s called conversation
Apologies, I wasn’t intending my tone to come off as rude, only direct.
As a rule of thumb, you’re not going to get much progress after a clear ‘no’. And while fresh and radical ideas are always welcome, it’s fairly common for people to request radical changes of editors without attempting to pick up the technical skill first, or at least to think through the logistics of what would be required in order to make the change, and the wider impact the change could have.
I don’t speak for anyone else though- perhaps I’m only projecting my own frustration. Don’t be discouraged from pursing this further via a thread or your own attempt.
Yeah, perhaps I shouldn’t have responded to Strange’s idea to begin with since Hal already gave them a firm “no”. My only purpose in responding how I did was to convey how, from my perspective at least, this idea is impossible logistically given what this film has for Rey’s arc. So Hal’s “no” answer is understandable even beyond the fact that this edit has cemented itself already. At a fundamental level, Rey’s arc in this movie is about her discovering an unsettling fact about herself and struggling with the dark side and her sense of self-worth because of it. There’s no way to undo that unless you delete massive swathes of this movie. But then you’d be better off merging TLJ and TROS into one, which isn’t the goal of Ascendant.
With Rey Nobody, this dark secret is that she’s fated to kill Palps and take the Sith throne. That works, but misses out on the idea of not being defined by a crappy relative, which is what I like about the OT. Plus, Rey Palpatine makes Kylo and Rey rhyme in a way congruent with the concept of the dyad - Kylo looks up to his grandfather, and Rey wants nothing to do with hers. I toyed with the idea of Rey being created by Palpatine’s influence over the midichlorians, but that overcomplicates everything since Anakin would be dragged into that discussion and everybody in the saga would be related to each other in a really strange way.
Honestly, the only alternative Rey background story that I think could work decently is that there is a prophesied Sith chosen one created by the dark side itself as Anakin was by the light. But the final movie in a saga is a weird place to introduce such an idea.
EDIT: But that’s not anything I’m suggesting! Ascendant v5 is good where it’s at.
Well you’re a good example of the right approach, JJB.
You have fresh and radical ideas, you keep thinking about the practicality of their execution, you learned how to use the tech to test, demonstrate, and then execute your ideas, and when you recognised that some of your vision wasn’t compatible with an existing project, you started your own. Bang on.
Honestly, the only alternative Rey background story that I think could work decently is that there is a prophesied Sith chosen one created by the dark side itself as Anakin was by the light. But the final movie in a saga is a weird place to introduce such an idea.
Agreed. The only things that would be weirder to introduce in the final film in the saga is that somehow Palpatine returned 😄
Faneditors - I salute you.
Honestly, the only alternative Rey background story that I think could work decently is that there is a prophesied Sith chosen one created by the dark side itself as Anakin was by the light. But the final movie in a saga is a weird place to introduce such an idea.
This reminds me of an idea I had back when the film first came about, something I thought was a missed opportunity with the idea of the dyad (beyond that it should have been introduced earlier):
Would the Force, inherently dual in nature, with the whole central conflict between Light and Dark being about bringing balance and discovering what both truly mean, really create a Chosen ONE, rather than a Chosen TWO?
The hubris of the Jedi Order (that Luke himself decries in TLJ) was to completely stamp out and ignore the Dark, the equivalent of sweeping it under the rug, leaving people like Anakin in a terrible place. The constant folly of the Dark Side is absolute greed, which can never be sustainable (capitalism anyone?).
While Anakin went to both Light and Dark extremes, and people like Revan have been able to walk the line (though it did cause him and the galaxy a looot of problems), when the idea of the dyad was introduced I felt something really special could have been done with the idea of the Chosen One, which also would have ameliorated this film lessening the impact of Anakin’s sacrifice. To create true balance, the Force would make a Chosen Two, someone in the Light who struggles with the Dark, and someone in the Dark who struggles with the Light.
This is helped by Kylo already being a really unique Dark Side character, in that he doesn’t seek power as much as he seeks identity, leading to his constant conflict: the Dark Side can’t give him belonging and love. The theatrical films never delved enough into Rey struggling with the Dark Side but the Hal and adjacent edits (e.g. Starlight and Rekindled) bring it out brilliantly: she shows how tempting and easy the Dark Side is for a new, powerful, driven Force user, especially someone who has to learn so much so quickly like Rey and is desperate to defend her new family, the only one she’s ever had.
This doesn’t really have any bearing on the edit but I just wanted to share some thoughts!
EDIT: I also just remembered something else that I thought could augment this idea: Yoda in ROTS says to Windu and Obi-Wan, as they discuss if Anakin is up to spying on Palpatine and Obi-Wan affirms he’s the Chosen One, “A prophecy that misread could have been.”
EDIT 2: I just remembered ANOTHER part of this idea, related to the dyad: it’s not even a Chosen Two, but a Chosen Two that are One, perhaps why the prophecy was misread.
There’s no real way to make the idea work in TROS even with clever AI voices, as Rey and Ben don’t defeat the Emperor together and Ben dies. It’s more of a rewrite thing. Always intrigued me though!
“I don’t believe it.”
“That is why you Yoda.”
Master Fail
To create true balance, the Force would make a Chosen Two, someone in the Light who struggles with the Dark, and someone in the Dark who struggles with the Light.
Yeah, this is exactly what I was getting at. There is everything in the trilogy itself already to make this a compelling idea, the problem is that Ahch-To focuses so hard on being a Palpatine. And also, like you pointed out, Rey solos Palpatine and Ben dies. I suppose you could still argue that since they are one in the same that Ben helps out somehow, and especially that he’ll help out in the future. Think about it, Rey would continue to struggle with the dark no matter what. But Ben put his life-Force into Rey, so the Chosen One is no longer two people that are one but truly one person. Rey has life-Force within her created by both the light and dark sides of the Force itself. Conveying that in the moment would be hard, though. Plus, Ben’s ghost might have to go bye-bye to illustrate such a concept, which is kinda sacrilegious in my books lol.
Can I get the link for the trilogy? Thanks in advice
Okay, I finally found some time to dig into this project a little. Here is the state of the flashback sequence.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VBFPUHnRAGrGfMWsUy5pnSo31u54SY0m/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kDmXzsVWWzbfOoC8DKCLNvfSex2wV3-I/view?usp=sharing
The delivery of “Leia sensed it as she trained you” could be better, and possibly the wording. Rey responds with, “She still trained me,” which sounds a little redundant.
I hate to lose the reference to Padme, but I think it flows better (and lets us get away with the alteration a little more cleanly) without it. 😕
I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.
Also, JJB, can you send me the line “What’s troubling you, Rey” for Leia? I like it but I only have your test clip and not the line on its own.
I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.
I don’t know if Luke’s “final lesson” sounds perfect enough
The delivery of “Leia sensed it as she trained you” could be better, and possibly the wording. Rey responds with, “She still trained me,” which sounds a little redundant.
I hate to lose the reference to Padme, but I think it flows better (and lets us get away with the alteration a little more cleanly) without it. 😕
Without the reference to training, it’s hard to gauge when she actually senses this, though. If there is some alternative phrasing I’m not aware of, I’d love to hear it.
I kinda agree on the Padme part. Mostly because it allows us to be a little more creative with how we want to write the voiceover. Although shifting from discussing their father to discussing their mother does work in a mirroring sort of way.
I sent you the audio for that other line, Hal.
EDIT: I agree with Snooker that “Final lesson” doesn’t quite work now. Furthermore, we could always remove Rey saying “She still trained me!”. So Luke would instead be responding to only her saying “She never told me.” Which I think is actually slightly more compelling. The idea that Leia never wanted to tell her about it because it didn’t really matter compared to who she is on the inside. Rather than focusing on the fact that she continues training her (which we already know to be the case). So it would go as follows:
Luke: “Because you’re a Palpatine? Leia sensed it as she trained you.”
Rey: “She never told me.”
Luke: “Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Rey, some things are stronger than blood…”
Okay, I finally found some time to dig into this project a little. Here is the state of the flashback sequence.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VBFPUHnRAGrGfMWsUy5pnSo31u54SY0m/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kDmXzsVWWzbfOoC8DKCLNvfSex2wV3-I/view?usp=sharingThe delivery of “Leia sensed it as she trained you” could be better, and possibly the wording. Rey responds with, “She still trained me,” which sounds a little redundant.
I hate to lose the reference to Padme, but I think it flows better (and lets us get away with the alteration a little more cleanly) without it. 😕
WOW. That seems pretty much perfect to me!
Those clips look great! The AI voices sound pretty good, although I feel like Luke talks a tad bit slower than he should during the flashback.
Side question, does there exist a version of the Rey/Palpatine fight where Leia’s saber is purple, but there are no ghosts? Was thinking of doing this for my own edit which uses Spence’s ending with the purple saber because I love how it looks against all the blue of Exogol.
The AI voices sound pretty good, although I feel like Luke talks a tad bit slower than he should during the flashback.
This is also something I noticed. I think we might need to rewrite some of the dialogue in this scene. With a faster delivery, there won’t be enough content for the space.
EDIT: Yeah, I just realized that he doesn’t even mention the fact that Leia stopped being a Jedi since the Padme reference is removed. That’s definitely a requirement for this scene.
Something like: “But Leia feared the hatred that consumed our father, and surrendered her saber to me. Despite losing everything, and everyone, Leia always chose compassion over hatred.”
Yeah, I think it needs a little work as well.
I still think this is a good one, we are leaving the Padme reference, and the “surrendered her saber to me” is just assumed at that point. And in the current “canon”, that actually is what happened. Not that it has any firm bearing on what Hal decides, but I still think it is awesome to include.
Luke: “She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia feared the hatred that consumed our father, choosing instead to follow our mother’s path. Despite losing everything and everyone, Leia always chose compassion over hatred. A thousand generations live in you now, but this is your fight. Let Leia’s legacy guide you on Exegol."
The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.
I don’t believe that’s any different than what I previously submitted? Which is fine, it just sounds like he needs to speak a bit faster which would allow all of that to fit.
I don’t believe that’s any different than what I previously submitted? Which is fine, it just sounds like he needs to speak a bit faster which would allow all of that to fit.
This was omitted in Hal’s version and your last post: “choosing instead to follow our mother’s path.”
The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.
Correct. But what I gave Hal actually includes that line as you have it. The problem is that he’s speaking so slow that there isn’t enough time to fit it all comfortably. He’d have to start talking sooner than he does in the original film. I think I just need to generate it all again with a slightly faster pace.
But if we were to make adjustments to the writing, now would be the time to discuss them before I generate anything.
I’ve gone ahead and generated a bunch of lines and selected the best three for the following compilation:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r5CNyHhP6QBsg1zUK9eJEm9X6du9UYi5/view?usp=sharing
This is the same dialogue as we originally came up with since it doesn’t seem like anybody has any issues with it. I can provide the three lines individually to Hal if we are okay with these takes or I can create alternatives for some (or all) of them. Here is how they get separated:
EDIT: Oh, and here is a new version of “Leia sensed it as she trained you”. I think what was missing was that sort of gruffness he has when he says “Because you’re a Palpatine.”
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qZ78eOdnarLFW2k0_QMknTQcctbgPgCN/view?usp=sharing
After looking at that scene, it doesn’t look like “She still trained me” can be removed. So either we have to deal with the slight repetition there or there’s some other line I can’t think of.
Literally perfect. Splice 'em in 😉
The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.
Oh, dang. As I was about to test the first line I realized that we also have the opportunity to fix “it was fear that kept me here” since a lot of people think that is an incorrect assessment of Luke’s character from TLJ wherein he seems to genuinely believe the galaxy would be better off without the Jedi. We have a lot of other changes in this edit to harmonize a bit better with TLJ.
How do we feel about something like: “Failure was my greatest fear”? Because that still allows for fear to play a role in Luke’s stay on Ahch-To without it being the primary factor. In other words, even with failure as his greatest fear, he can still believe that the Jedi are doomed to fail in TLJ, thus why he wants them to end.
Jar Jar Bricks said: In other words, even with failure as his greatest fear, he can still believe that the Jedi are doomed to fail in TLJ, thus why he wants them to end.
Even more: He could have been specifically afraid that his new order would fail like the old jedi order did.
Right, that’s what I’m trying to get at but for some reason it was hard for me to articulate. I think making the line a more generalized statement about himself like this serves the scene better than to say that the only reason he was on Ahch-To at all was because of fear. That’s exactly what Rian was trying to avoid since it makes Luke into a coward.
EDIT: Especially in combination with the new flashback voiceover where it’s revealed Leia’s greatest fear is hatred and giving in to that, this should work well. Each character has their greatest fear discussed Leia - hatred Luke - failure Rey - herself.