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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 521

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Hal 9000 said:

Master Lawdog said:

Is the VFX shot of Darth Nihilus as a background statue behind Kylo Ren being used in this edit?

If someone can send it to me it will be.

And I agree, Test: If Kijimi is to he shown rioting, we shouldn’t really see it until that moment.

I’m still not totally sold on using the idea overall. It’s great, and could totally have been done well while making the movie. I’m just still a little skeptical of doing it via fan editing in a way that would’ve worked completely if projected in theaters for real.

The graffiti? Or sherlock’s edit of the Poe and Zorri scene?

EDIT: Happy 13,000th comment on this thread!

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I believe the graffiti ideas would work best if paired with the reordered Zorii talk + the repurposed citizen revolt shots. If it were the graffiti alone it’d be a fun Easter egg but the further context would make it feel somewhat more significant to the “rebellion/spark of hope/we’re not alone” message.

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^ I guess to both, but especially modifying Poe’s and Zorri’s conversation. I’m very much open, and hope it can work!

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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I think adding a Luke graffiti in the background and some stormtrooper lines that imply they’re looking for dissidents should be enough to imply there’s more of a push against the Fist Order on Kijimi, which naturally changes the context of the First Order patrols, and does build up on the Skywalker spark/flames of rebellion without interfering with the film.

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My original worry with some of the graffiti was that it was going to be too subtle for casual audience members to catch; but I think it would actually work perfectly if we can iron out the rest of the audio for this sequence. More observant viewers would be able to see that Kijimi was inspired by Luke by looking at the graffiti, and that then quietly foreshadows the moment with Poe later where it comes to the forefront; but the point of all of our additions is still made clear for those yuppies who won’t pick up on little clues like that. Kind of an /r/MovieDetails moment.

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sherlockpotter said:

My original worry with some of the graffiti was that it was going to be too subtle for casual audience members to catch; but I think it would actually work perfectly if we can iron out the rest of the audio for this sequence. More observant viewers would be able to see that Kijimi was inspired by Luke by looking at the graffiti, and that then quietly foreshadows the moment with Poe later where it comes to the forefront; but the point of all of our additions is still made clear for those yuppies who won’t pick up on little clues like that. Kind of an /r/MovieDetails moment.

I agree with this. Kijimi in riot is a great idea, in my opinion; as someone else said in this thread, taking disposable moments and pumping them full of meaning.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

TROS Novelisation: The Faraday Edit, TLJ: Stoic Edition, ROTS: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, Kenobi: Faraday Cut, Godzilla Vs Megalon, Godzilla Vs Gigan, Godzilla: Final Wars, The Light Rises, Faraday Jr.'s Star Wars

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sherlockpotter said:

My original worry with some of the graffiti was that it was going to be too subtle for casual audience members to catch; but I think it would actually work perfectly if we can iron out the rest of the audio for this sequence. More observant viewers would be able to see that Kijimi was inspired by Luke by looking at the graffiti, and that then quietly foreshadows the moment with Poe later where it comes to the forefront; but the point of all of our additions is still made clear for those yuppies who won’t pick up on little clues like that. Kind of an /r/MovieDetails moment.

I still feel like it should be a surprise, so at first we’d feel hopeless w/ Poe and when we do get to that Zorii scene we begin to feel hopeful with Poe at the same time. You know, kind of like the Yoda reveal in ESB (before the prequels)?

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What if the grafitti shot is inserted during the “just listen” part? Like, whe hear the people rioting and shouting for Skywalker, then wee see the grafitti and hear Zorri “they win by making you think you’re alone”.
Just a silly idea but idk it could work

the dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural

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Master Lawdog said:

Hal 9000 said:

Master Lawdog said:

Is the VFX shot of Darth Nihilus as a background statue behind Kylo Ren being used in this edit?

If someone can send it to me it will be.

Chase Adams did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLmAaf8SRwA

Darth Nihilus Approves 👍

“We Are What They Grow Beyond” - Yoda


My Prefered Saga Viewing Preference:
Ep. III - Revenge of the Sith Special Edition (StankPac Edit) * Rogue One - A Star Wars Story (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. IV - A New Hope D+77 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. V - Empire Strikes Back D+80 (OohTeeDee Edit)
Ep. VI - Return of The Jedi OTD83 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. VII - The Force Awakens Restructured (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. VIII - The Last Jedi Legendary (Hal 9000 Edit) * Ep. IX - The Rise of Skywalker Ascendant (Hal 9000 Edit)

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I just don’t understand why the dialogue needs to be gutted though, in my opinion it’s much better the way it is originally. I don’t think it works to splice the Crait line before “maybe it is”, it breaks the flow of the conversation, and I don’t get why you’d remove “Everyone’s so afraid. They’ve given up”. This doesn’t contradict Poe’s development from TLJ, and is integral to his arc: Poe still believes the Resistance is the spark, but he laments so many people haven’t joined the Resistance because they’re afraid/given up. When Zorii says “there’s more of us” she’s telling him there are more good people in the galaxy, good people who’d be willing to fight. This is something he still believes (which is why she tells him “I don’t believe you believe that”), he just has moments of doubt, such as this, the scene on Leia’s death bed, and the ‘lowest point’ of the battle on Exegol.

Poe’s arc in this movie goes hand in hand with it’s main theme: he goes from believing the Resistance has to fight alone, to putting his faith in the people, The people who come together and (in this version) Rise in the name of Skywalker. He basically goes from only focusing on the spark, to actually letting it light the fire that brings the First Order down. Poe’s conversation with Zorii is a key moment for the story and his character arc, and is one of the few legit callbacks to TLJ. I don’t think it’s a disposable, meaningless moment… and I don’t think it should be tampered with.

We can add signs of rebellion on Kijimi without interfering with this, in fact it could heighten the fact Poe is so focused on the struggles of the Resistance he’s (partially) blind to signs of the external growing uprising. Maybe the moment he listens to rebellious calls could work, if it can be done seamlessly, as the moment he regains his hope/faith in the people, but I think the previous dialogue with Zorii shouldn’t be altered.

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I agree with you in theory, Burbin, but I don’t think the film articulates any of that at all clearly - it’s more like, that’s what the film could be with a bit of massaging. Which to me personally is exactly what the restructured conversation provides. It changes it from a mess you can read stuff into if you work at it, into subtext with a clear trajectory and purpose. (That’s my reaction to both versions, anyway.)

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

TROS Novelisation: The Faraday Edit, TLJ: Stoic Edition, ROTS: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, Kenobi: Faraday Cut, Godzilla Vs Megalon, Godzilla Vs Gigan, Godzilla: Final Wars, The Light Rises, Faraday Jr.'s Star Wars

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Burbin said:

I just don’t understand why the dialogue needs to be gutted though, in my opinion it’s much better the way it is originally. I don’t think it works to splice the Crait line before “maybe it is”, it breaks the flow of the conversation, and I don’t get why you’d remove “Everyone’s so afraid. They’ve given up”. This doesn’t contradict Poe’s development from TLJ, and is integral to his arc: Poe still believes the Resistance is the spark, but he laments so many people haven’t joined the Resistance because they’re afraid/given up. When Zorii says “there’s more of us” she’s telling him there are more good people in the galaxy, good people who’d be willing to fight. This is something he still believes (which is why she tells him “I don’t believe you believe that”), he just has moments of doubt, such as this, the scene on Leia’s death bed, and the ‘lowest point’ of the battle on Exegol.

It’s not a conflict with his character arc - it’s a conflict with the mechanics of the story.

The main reason I went about altering the dialogue was because it contradicts the new through line that was added in Ascendant, of the galaxy rising up. Right in the new opening crawl - “Flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy”… it creates a conflict if we say that the galaxy is rebelling, and then Poe claims that “Maybe it is over. Everyone is so afraid. They’ve given up.”

So yeah, Poe’s hopelessness works in the theatrical version, where the galaxy has given up (until Lando gives everyone an off screen pep talk); but if we want to establish that the galaxy has been working on this since Crait, Poe claiming that the galaxy is “afraid” and “has given up” comes across as incongruous. The restructured dialogue effectively conveys the same ideas of Poe’s hopelessness as it did originally, just without that contradictory aspect.

Poe’s arc in this movie goes hand in hand with it’s main theme: he goes from believing the Resistance has to fight alone, to putting his faith in the people, The people who come together and (in this version) Rise in the name of Skywalker. He basically goes from only focusing on the spark, to actually letting it light the fire that brings the First Order down. Poe’s conversation with Zorii is a key moment for the story and his character arc, and is one of the few legit callbacks to TLJ. I don’t think it’s a disposable, meaningless moment… and I don’t think it should be tampered with.

The way I edited it - or at least, the way I envisioned it 😉 - it would only serve to enhance everything you’re saying about Poe and his journey. The difference is that rather than “nothing character #156, introduced two minutes earlier” Zorii telling Poe "Ehh…I’m sure there are other people somewhere! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ", it becomes an actual moment - a scene for Poe to see for himself (and for the audience to see) that the galaxy hasn’t given up on their cause. He helped inspire the galaxy by his actions on Crait, and now the galaxy is able to inspire him in return. It’s tangible, and concrete; it’s much, much more than Keri Russell saying “Cheer up there, bucko!” as her seventh line of dialogue.

We can add signs of rebellion on Kijimi without interfering with this, in fact it could heighten the fact Poe is so focused on the struggles of the Resistance he’s (partially) blind to signs of the external growing uprising.

That was my thought too, on why I thought the graffiti would still work - Poe just has his head down, so to speak, and doesn’t notice it.

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sherlockpotter said:

It’s not a conflict with his character arc - it’s a conflict with the mechanics of the story.

The main reason I went about altering the dialogue was because it contradicts the new through line that was added in Ascendant, of the galaxy rising up. Right in the new opening crawl - “Flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy”… it creates a conflict if we say that the galaxy is rebelling, and then Poe claims that “Maybe it is over. Everyone is so afraid. They’ve given up.”

So yeah, Poe’s hopelessness works in the theatrical version, where the galaxy has given up (until Lando gives everyone an off screen pep talk); but if we want to establish that the galaxy has been working on this since Crait, Poe claiming that the galaxy is “afraid” and “has given up” comes across as incongruous. The restructured dialogue effectively conveys the same ideas of Poe’s hopelessness as it did originally, just without that contradictory aspect.

I don’t see it as contradictory, the point of Poe’s arc is that he’s wrong, both in the theatrical and in Ascendant, to think the galaxy has given up. That there are other people out there willing to fight. In TLJ he learns to embrace the role of a leader, here we see he feels the burden of taking over such a role. So his focus is on the strenght of the Resistance, we see him scold Rey for staying behind when she’s the best fighter the Resistance has.

The new crawl serves to tell us the state of the galaxy, so that we can accept it could come together in such an incredible fashion by the end. But it doesn’t mean Poe is aware of everything that’s going on, he didn’t see the kids on Canto Bight recounting the tale of Luke, he didn’t notice the puppet show on Passana and he walked right past a Skywalker mural on Kijimi. To him the Resistance forces are dwindling, and it’s all on his shoulders. He comes to the conclusion everyone is too afraid to join the Resistance, but reminiscing with his old friend Zorii helps him think outside his Resistance shaped box, that there are other good people out there and so the Resistance isn’t alone in it’s fight against evil.

The way I edited it - or at least, the way I envisioned it 😉 - it would only serve to enhance everything you’re saying about Poe and his journey. The difference is that rather than “nothing character #156, introduced two minutes earlier” Zorii telling Poe "Ehh…I’m sure there are other people somewhere! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ", it becomes an actual moment - a scene for Poe to see for himself (and for the audience to see) that the galaxy hasn’t given up on their cause. He helped inspire the galaxy by his actions on Crait, and now the galaxy is able to inspire him in return. It’s tangible, and concrete; it’s much, much more than Keri Russell saying “Cheer up there, bucko!” as her seventh line of dialogue.

Fair enough. Though I remain skeptical it can be done seamlessly, as I feel there would be something more to this scene if it was actually made with this intention, I would like to see it. But I don’t think the dialogue should be trimmed… the role of nothing character #156 is small, but as I’ve said it’s there and it does serve it’s function. I’m not saying this movie is secretly genius or anything, but there is enough of a backbone of elements like these that do seem thought out, if rather rushed and not perfectly executed, so we should strive to work with these elements and improve them where possible, being careful not to make cuts that might end up doing more harm.

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Hey Hal! Has there ever been any talk of cutting to something else between when Rey tells Leia she’s going on her quest to Exegol and her prepping the Falcon?

I’ve always felt the cut from one scene to the other to be a bit abrupt although I’m not sure what footage would be fitting to have there.

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Burbin said:

…There is enough of a backbone of elements like these that do seem thought out…

That’s pretty much the one thing I’ll flat-out disagree with you on, mate lol. I don’t think the story was well thought out at all; and one of the things I love about Ascendant is that it actually provides much of the backbone that was missing in the theatrical (like when it sets up the galaxy rising up in the crawl).

I don’t see it as contradictory, the point of Poe’s arc is that he’s wrong, both in the theatrical and in Ascendant, to think the galaxy has given up. That there are other people out there willing to fight.

I do see where you’re coming from, and I think that would be a good way to take the film; but like Cap said above, I don’t think the film telegraphs that at all. In Ascendant, we have the crawl, we have the puppet show, we have (hopefully) the Kijimi rebellion…all of it feels indicative of the larger state of the galaxy. Even if Poe personally doesn’t stop to watch the puppet show, the film is telegraphing that these are the sorts of things happening everywhere. And as a field agent, Poe should be aware of this after a full year.

In order to effectively convince Poe that not one single person is out there fighting, the film would need to have a scene that shows him that. Maybe on Pasaana, he asks the squid people to hold off the stormtroopers for them so they can escape, but the locals all run away. We see Poe looking crestfallen and defeated. And then later we understand why he doesn’t believe anyone else is fighting. But the film has to show us why he thinks that. Why he thinks that, even if the audience already knows better.

As it is, there’s no setup for it, so it feels like a really naff bit of exposition. And like I said, he’s essentially saying the same thing now as he did in the original, just without the one or two lines that say “Everyone has given up!!” It has the same overall meaning, just cutting out the one blatant contradiction.

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Kinda on topic, would it help to make the graffiti stuff someone subtle? I wonder that so the impact of the fleet and the “for skywalker” shouts at the end be the lead up to that paying off, and not being partially revealed. So somewhat vague/subtle “random” graffiti and however to make the “background action” more of a riot then an all out “rebellion/battle” … it may plant the seeds some more and not mess up too much on this Poe and Zorii dialogue. If it comes off across as “Full on rebellion on this battle, people literally are fighting against the FO” and Poes thinks “Well, no one is doing anything” … despite what’s going on around him.

Not sure how to convey it being a riot, but I am thinking if there is to be graffiti or anything, it should be more more vague and subtle to convey it as a bit of a riot and uprising … which would explain why the FO troopers are walking around and knocking on door securing things … they are treating it like a riot and making a parameter and conveying the extent of the riot/uprising as opposed to a battle field … it probably would be conveyed better with however the dialogue with Poe, edited or not?

Not sure if that makes any sense. Lol.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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That’s my thinking too jarbear, adding some anti-FO/Luke grafitti and changing some stormtrooper lines instantly alters the context of the FO troops raiding homes and holding people. Basically hinting that there are people out there that have hope and want to push back against the opression, but they’re not united (yet) and as such they’re caught in a constant struggle. That would still gel with the depressive state of Kijimi while offering another hint at what’s to come.

sherlockpotter said:

Burbin said:

…There is enough of a backbone of elements like these that do seem thought out…

That’s pretty much the one thing I’ll flat-out disagree with you on, mate lol. I don’t think the story was well thought out at all; and one of the things I love about Ascendant is that it actually provides much of the backbone that was missing in the theatrical (like when it sets up the galaxy rising up in the crawl).

Like I said I don’t think the film is a secret masterpiece for this, it was clearly rushed out and mangled in development, with things shifting around in the middle of production, the end product is a garbled mess. I’m not saying it was well thought out, but to say it was not thought out at all would be disingenuous. There are clear throughlines and intentions within the story and characters, some we can disagree on, some are muddled or underdeveloped, but they’re there. It’s the reason Ascendant has been such a great project, because there’s stuff buried in the mud that can be drawn out and polished.

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As for the dialogue, it is strange “now” that with Ascendant having the “flames of rebellion” in the crawl (also depending if the simple graffiti and background riot noise) that Poe says "everyone’s given up. The rest of his thought is fine, but the last part doesn’t really fit now. I mean, he may think “it is over” since no one is “joining up with the resistance,” but the crawl is already saying “people are doing stuff.” Maybe even removing that line can help with that? I mean, he should have at least the minimalist of information that people are starting to rise up … that’s the opposite of people giving up.

Again, the conversation is already not the greatest so I dunno if anything can be altered … maybe just:

“I can’t walk out on this war. Not 'til it’s over. Maybe it is.”

So then Zorii responds to just him thinking it’s over? Dunno how that would work.

Dunno, I admit I don’t have a good answer due to the new direction of Ascendant. (Which I like BTW)

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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Yeah, I think the “They’ve given up” is the most problematic line. That makes it seem like everyone has accepted the First Order’s rule. I think Poe saying “everyone is so afraid” can still work though. People can be rebelling and still be afraid. Maybe Poe means everyone is too afraid to join forces to fight for the galaxy, rather than their own planets.

And what is funny regarding that seeming contradiction between the new crawl and the Poe scene is that the contradiction would’ve existed in the original version of the film if they kept the entirety of the Mustafar scene. In the original version, Hux and Pryde are on the surface of Mustafar watching Kylo dispose of their enemies, and Hux says, “Flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy and Ren chases a ghost.”

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I think a simple fix would be to change the word ‘attacking’ to ‘silencing’ in the crawl:

“Flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy. The tyrannical First Order has retaliated by attacking silencing any planetary system that supports their enemy.”

Not only does it suggests that the First Order has made it difficult for people to communicate, which is why Poe might think that the galaxy has given up, but also it adds weight to the theme of “They win by making you think you’re alone”.

I thought the Poe/Zorri dialogue worked well enough in its original form. This way there would be no need to change it.

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That’s a good idea. This issue also might be a remnant of DOTF plot point, where the First Order has literally blocked communications across the galaxy, and our heroes try to get a message out to their scattered allies. In that scenario it would definitely make sense why Poe would be a little of unsure of the galaxy’s resolve to fight the First Order.

Using the word ‘silencing’ could be interpreted as them attacking/destroying rebel planets, as the current craw is basically saying, or it could be interpreted as blocking communications from the rest of galaxy, helping to explain Poe’s skepticism. It would also sort of explain why Lando has to physically go to the Core Worlds to get that message to potential allies, rather than being able to send a message directly from their base on Ajan Kloss.