Sign In

The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 363

Author
Time
 (Edited)

jarbear said:

Hal 9000 said:

I haven’t sat down with it yet but I like that. Might even be good to reverse “Empress Palpatine” and “you will take the throne.”

Might be able to mess with it today or tomorrow. We’ll have to see.

That can work to help push away the idea he was waiting a long time for her specifically to be the empress … when he changed his mind about it 5 minutes ago. lol.

Long have I waited … You will take the throne … Empress Palpatine.

The emphasis is not him waiting for a long time for her to take the throne, it fits more of him waiting a long time for someone to take the throne.

Precisely jarbear.

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

Author
Time

Please don’t remove the “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here”. It reinforces how Palpatine is manipulative and a liar.

Author
Time

TestingOutTheTest said:

Please don’t remove the “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here”. It reinforces how Palpatine is manipulative and a liar.

That might be okay, actually. The more problematic line was Finn confirming that Palpatine didn’t want her dead as a child, but without that the audience would probably now just assume Palpatine is lying.

Author
Time

TestingOutTheTest said:

Please don’t remove the “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here”. It reinforces how Palpatine is manipulative and a liar.

While I agree that those lines were most likely written with the intention of them being manipulative lies, it works far better for them to be gone, and not only because it streamlines his plan and makes it less confusing.

Palpatine’s main goal with Rey is to make her as angry at him as possible. If he says that he never intended for her to die, that is exactly the opposite of what he should be trying to do. He needs her to want to kill him, not appreciate him.

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

Author
Time
 (Edited)

It’s a fine line between having a lying character and confusing/inconsistent/bad writing.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time

I agree once again, jarbear. And like I said, it becomes an even bigger problem when the lies he’s saying are EXACTLY the opposite of what he should be trying to tell her. He needs to be goading her into killing him, not telling her, “I’ve always wanted you to come visit grandpa’s house. I’m so happy you’re not dead, I would never do such a thing.”

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

Author
Time

jarbear said:

Tobar said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I guess you could make the argument for Rey not showing up. Luke kinda messed up by convincing her to leave Ahch-To, come to think of it. Ben likely would have realized Rey wasn’t on Exegol, and the two of them would have just chilled elsewhere while the Resistance launched an attack on Exegol.

Fairly certain that Finn, Poe, and co. would have gotten rid of all the Star Destroyers in that battle. Their actions never relied on the Palpatine interactions, did they?

Oh boy, I’m never going to be able to forget this plot hole now.

There would never have been a battle since Rey is the one that showed them how to reach Exegol.

That would have left the Final Order fleet free reign to fully deploy and spread out across the galaxy destroying countless worlds and then holding a proverbial blaster to the head of the galaxy.

True, but in some ways that wasn’t needed since D0 was from Exegol and could in theory direct them. Not saying one way or the other, but in some ways, the plotting of the course seems a bit unnecessary where you see Rey making tight maneuvers plotting the course but we see some HUGE ships appearing later with Lando … heck, even the Star Destroyers would need to get out …

Anyway, to say it simply … the movie already gives us an “out” of not needing Rey’s “plot the course” when we have DO, who’s from Exegol, could give them direction … let alone the idea that a bunch of other ships, from big to small, wouldn’t have been able to do, or are too big, to do the maneuvers that were shown.

I see this from the other perspective - since we were considering removing Finn’s line about “Palpatine has always wanted Rey alive,” but we weren’t sure how to make the scene work without that line, I say we should just axe the whole scene. If we assume that they learn about Exegol and how to get there just by tracking Rey, we won’t need D-O for anything except toy sales.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

sherlockpotter said:

jarbear said:

Tobar said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I guess you could make the argument for Rey not showing up. Luke kinda messed up by convincing her to leave Ahch-To, come to think of it. Ben likely would have realized Rey wasn’t on Exegol, and the two of them would have just chilled elsewhere while the Resistance launched an attack on Exegol.

Fairly certain that Finn, Poe, and co. would have gotten rid of all the Star Destroyers in that battle. Their actions never relied on the Palpatine interactions, did they?

Oh boy, I’m never going to be able to forget this plot hole now.

There would never have been a battle since Rey is the one that showed them how to reach Exegol.

That would have left the Final Order fleet free reign to fully deploy and spread out across the galaxy destroying countless worlds and then holding a proverbial blaster to the head of the galaxy.

True, but in some ways that wasn’t needed since D0 was from Exegol and could in theory direct them. Not saying one way or the other, but in some ways, the plotting of the course seems a bit unnecessary where you see Rey making tight maneuvers plotting the course but we see some HUGE ships appearing later with Lando … heck, even the Star Destroyers would need to get out …

Anyway, to say it simply … the movie already gives us an “out” of not needing Rey’s “plot the course” when we have DO, who’s from Exegol, could give them direction … let alone the idea that a bunch of other ships, from big to small, wouldn’t have been able to do, or are too big, to do the maneuvers that were shown.

I see this from the other perspective - since we were considering removing Finn’s line about “Palpatine has always wanted Rey alive,” but we weren’t sure how to make the scene work without that line, I say we should just axe the whole scene. If we assume that they learn about Exegol and how to get there just by tracking Rey, we won’t need D-O for anything except toy sales.

Personally, I’m inclined to agree. The only part I would be sad about losing out on is the whole “Thank you, General” conversation between Finn and Poe. I love those lines.

Anyways, I believe Hal is only wanting to remove Finn’s dubbed in line, which works fine enough imo.

Without that line Finn just says that Ochi was supposed to take Rey back to Exegol if he finds her. At that point, it’s up to interpretation whether Palpy would then kill her or just lock her up for a couple decades.

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

Author
Time

sherlockpotter said:

I see this from the other perspective - since we were considering removing Finn’s line about “Palpatine has always wanted Rey alive,” but we weren’t sure how to make the scene work without that line, I say we should just axe the whole scene. If we assume that they learn about Exegol and how to get there just by tracking Rey, we won’t need D-O for anything except toy sales.

That would require some editing of the scene where they’re tracking Rey, and I don’t think that would be better than just cutting Finn’s last line about Palpatine wanting Rey alive. In the original, after Finn told them that D-0 had information on Rey, they started looking at D-0’s information talking about the planet and how difficult it would be to get through, only for 3P0 and R2 to then present the solution of tracking Rey. The beginning bit where they’re talking about Exogol’s surroundings doesn’t make sense if they don’t know where Exogol is yet.

Also, if Finn doesn’t get information about Exogol from D-0, then D-0 literally does nothing and serves no function in the movie.

Author
Time

It wouldn’t be the first time a character has been reduced to window dressing. (See: 95% of the Jedi Order until The Clone Wars, or Boba Fett in ROTJ) But fair points nonetheless. I guess I’m still confused about Palpy flip-flopping between wanting Rey as a child, giving up trying to find her, deciding to kill her, and then going back to finding Rey after Ben turns.

I’m sure it will make more sense when I see the final V2, at any rate. I’m still in the Rey Nobody camp anyway, so I’m sure that’s affecting my interpretation of the plot.

Author
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

True. On second thought, I take back what I said. It’s best to simply remove Finn’s dubbed-in line.

Plus the Palpatine changes, of course.

I agree, and this is where I am.

Also, Poe clarified that D-O provided everything needed about Exegol “except how to get there.”

D-O plus Rey equals all they need. No issues, at least not more than anything this movie addresses with a quick throwaway line here or there.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

sherlockpotter said:

I guess I’m still confused about Palpy flip-flopping between wanting Rey as a child, giving up trying to find her, deciding to kill her, and then going back to finding Rey after Ben turns.

Note: Edited this comment to reflect what I believe Hal is going for.
Palpatine’s plan in the edit we’re creating:

  1. Palpatine sends Ochi to track down and kill Rey because he “saw what [she] would become” (a powerful Jedi), but her parents won’t reveal her location. Ochi kills them as he feels they no longer serve any purpose.
  2. Palpatine puts all of his efforts into corrupting Ben Solo for an essence transfer.
  3. Palpatine wants Snoke to have Kylo kill Rey because he is using only Kylo. Kylo resists.
  4. He had already put a ton of effort into corrupting Kylo, so yet again he tells him on Exegol to kill Rey. This is the task which will prove whether or not he is a worthy vessel.
  5. Kylo realigns himself with the light, and Palpatine senses it. His new goal is to corrupt Rey and essence transfer into her.
  6. She refuses. Then he discovers he can drain their dyad to restore his full strength.

It’s really complicated, but at least it (mostly) makes sense.

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

Author
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

I guess I’m still confused about Palpy flip-flopping between wanting Rey as a child, giving up trying to find her, deciding to kill her, and then going back to finding Rey after Ben turns.

Note: Edited this comment to reflect what I believe Hal is going for.
Palpatine’s plan in the edit we’re creating:

  1. Palpatine sends Ochi to track down and kill Rey because he “saw what [she] would become” (a powerful Jedi), but her parents won’t reveal her location. Ochi kills them as he feels they no longer serve any purpose.
  2. Palpatine puts all of his effort into corrupting Ben Solo for an essence transfer.
  3. Palpatine wants Snoke to have Kylo kill Rey because he is using only Kylo. Kylo resists.
  4. He had already put a ton of effort into corrupting Kylo, so yet again he tells him on Exegol to kill Rey. This is the task which will prove whether or not he is a worthy vessel.
  5. Kylo realigns himself with the light, and Palpatine senses it. His new goal is to corrupt Rey and essence transfer into her.
  6. She refuses. Then he discovers he can drain their dyad to restore his full strength.

It’s really complicated, but at least it (mostly) makes sense.

Alright, if it can work out that way, then great! It definitely sounds better than the original plan. Thanks for going through it for me!

Author
Time

Yes, that’s the plan at this point.

And it wouldn’t need serious alteration for the Rey Nobody cut. Unless that version’s logic gets entangled at all, like if that thinktank decides to alter her parents’ role or something.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

Author
Time

Lol … when you think about it … what a mess. Hahahaha … ahaha … (cries a bit)

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time

Yeah, I mean there is still a bit of a problem with it. For example, why would Palpatine not keep tabs on his own son or at least keep him nearby? Only when he has this vision of Rey does he realize he needs to catch them, or even kill them. He clearly wasn’t thinking ahead there. If he was smart, he would have taken her as soon as she was born. Unless (and this is likely the answer here) he didn’t know that his son got into a relationship with a woman and had a child until he had the vision. But that still begs the question: why not keep track of his activities?

At least with the Rey Nobody version this isn’t an issue. He would have no relations with Rey’s family until he sees what she will become in this vision, and then sends Ochi to track down this mystery family.

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

Author
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Yeah, I mean there is still a bit of a problem with it. For example, why would Palpatine not keep tabs on his own son or at least keep him nearby? Only when he has this vision of Rey does he realize he needs to catch them, or even kill them. He clearly wasn’t thinking ahead there. If he was smart, he would have taken her as soon as she was born. Unless (and this is likely the answer here) he didn’t know that his son got into a relationship with a woman and had a child until he had the vision. But that still begs the question: why not keep track of his activities?

At least with the Rey Nobody version this isn’t an issue. He would have no relations with Rey’s family until he sees what she will become in this vision, and then sends Ochi to track down this mystery family.

It’s almost like there wasn’t really any planning story wise for this whole thing …

Oh wait. Lol.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time
 (Edited)

The only rationality that I can come up with is that he was ashamed of his “son” and doubted he would be able to have a force-sensitive child. As a result, he ignored his existence until it came back to bite his butt. But of course this explanation relies on the novelization where it states that her father wasn’t force sensitive. Would have really helped if all this was mentioned in the movie.

But yeah, you’re right, none of this was taken into consideration while writing TFA, let alone TLJ.

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

Author
Time

Ah, I’m not sure! I would hate to break up the shot of Ben slowly turning to look. But I’ll play with it next time I am lucky enough to get the chance one of these nights. Maybe even tonight.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

Author
Time

I get the reasoning for it, but to me, it sticks out as “off” because it’s both such a quick shot and feels “rushed” but it visually sticks out since we see “shadow Leia” and then the medal shot is “full on light.” It just … doesn’t feel right.

However I like the idea behind it … it’s a shame what they did with the scene to make it feel so disconnected with the medal. I’d love it if they did something in a scene before seeing the back of Leia going through a box of things and pulls out the medal. We the audience thinks, what’s the point of that? And then later on we get the scene we see her and then make the connection with that scene and the end of the movie.

Such a shame.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Hal 9000 said:

Ah, I’m not sure! I would hate to break up the shot of Ben slowly turning to look.

Idk, I kinda like breaking up that shot. Ben is kinda ashamed to look at her, but then she caresses the medal and he looks straight at her.

As for it not matching the lighting, the rest of her body is still darkened. It’s just her hands with the medal that get light. And there are some light sources behind/above her which could possibly do that. Somebody else did some color correcting to the shot, which might fit even better.

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker