The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 268

To be fair it is hinted in the movie that Palpatine casted his son aside because he wasn’t force sensitive. He sent Ochi after Rey because he “sensed her power” and didn’t hesitate to kill his son. And he mocks Rey telling her she’s “Weak, like your parents”.

Palpatine is obsessed with power so it makes sense he would have no interest in his own son if he had no force sensitivity, until he senses he has a super baby daughter. Him being a “failed clone” is pretty dumb and convoluted though, it just feels like something they made up later to avoid the implications of giving Palpatine a literal son.

You guys are looking way too into the lore reasoning of this when the Doylist reason is readily apparent: to minimize the ickiness.

The reason the novel clarifies he’s a clone is because if he were Palps’ biological son, Palpatine would have had to have banged Rey’s grandma sometime during the late Empire, which is a gross thought we don’t need some EU writer detailing for us down the line.

Meanwhile if he were more clearly spelled out as Palps’ clone in the movie, we would have a flashback where a digitally-de-aged McDiarmid is coddling the young Rey, which would be just as horrifying and also create the unnerving idea that biologically Rey is actually Palp’s daughter.

The sloppy mixture of movie and book explanations we got was ultimately a mercy. He’s a test-tube baby and not the result of wrinkly Sith love-making, but he’s an imperfect clone who’s genetically-speaking more like a son than a literal second Palps.

Neerb said:

You guys are looking way too into the lore reasoning of this when the Doylist reason is readily apparent: to minimize the ickiness.

The reason the novel clarifies he’s a clone is because if he were Palps’ biological son, Palpatine would have had to have banged Rey’s grandma sometime during the late Empire, which is a gross thought we don’t need some EU writer detailing for us down the line.

Meanwhile if he were more clearly spelled out as Palps’ clone in the movie, we would have a flashback where a digitally-de-aged McDiarmid is coddling the young Rey, which would be just as horrifying and also create the unnerving idea that biologically Rey is actually Palp’s daughter.

The sloppy mixture of movie and book explanations we got was ultimately a mercy. He’s a test-tube baby and not the result of wrinkly Sith love-making, but he’s an imperfect clone who’s genetically-speaking more like a son than a literal second Palps.

Considering Palpatine didn’t need to return, in the first place, and Underworld would have had a woman breaking Palpatine’s heart in the time period of her father’s conception… there was still no need to go about this silliness.

JakeRyan17 said:

Considering Palpatine didn’t need to return in the first place

“The basic premise of the entire movie should have been different” is a different conversation entirely, and a pretty pointless one considering the deed has been done (unless you’re somehow planning a completely Palpatine-less edit, which Hal is not).

Neerb said:

JakeRyan17 said:

Considering Palpatine didn’t need to return in the first place

“The basic premise of the entire movie should have been different” is a different conversation entirely, and a pretty pointless one considering the deed has been done (unless you’re somehow planning a completely Palpatine-less edit, which Hal is not).

Full context of the quote was refuting the “need” to avoid Palpatine having a child after they decided Palpatine needed a child. Palpatine didn’t need to be the villain, Rey didn’t need to be related to him, Palpatine didn’t need to have a discarded-but-living clone that’s also Rey’s father, etc.

The idea that the Sith Eternal were able to create a completely normal & functional younger clone of Palpatine who goes on to become a loving husband & father just seems silly to me, considering all we see them achieve on the film amounts to a decaying corpse barely held together by machinery and Palpatine’s spirit, and apparently the creation of Snoke, another disfigured monstrosity. These aren’t the fancy installations on Kamino, they’re the wretched dark experiments of an evil cult. This “backstory” is just a convoluted mess that has no basis on what we see on the film.

Replacing the “Snokes” with Palpatines works even better to paint the picture of a cult working tirelessly with the sole purpose of barely maintaining Palpatine alive. There is no room to raise a clone “son” on this “secret world of the Sith”.

Hi Hal

The insertion of the new shot(s) is great!

However (this critisism is not aimed at you or the edit) the more I watch the ‘Wedge’ shot, the more it annoys me!

On first viewing it was nice to see a familiar face…but as time has gone on his line ‘nice flying Lando’ really starts to irritate…

What is ‘nice flying’ exactly? A few rolls of the Falcon on it’s horizontal axis…in wide open space?

C’mon…we’ve seen that ship impressively navigate through some seriously tight spaces in it’s time, so I’m not sure a basic roll is anything worth gushing over (especially from someone like Wedge who just so happens to be a seasoned fighter pilot?)

The more I watch it, the more I think it makes Wedge look like he’s trying too hard and is just sucking up to the bigger boys in the hope he starts getting invited out more 😂

‘Nice flying, Lando’

‘I love what you’ve done with your hair, Lando’

‘Nice shirt, Lando’

As I say, it’s not a problem with your edit! I’m not even suggesting you remove it as it wouldn’t be worth the work trying to fill the gap and re-sync everything. I just thought I’d share the observation 😃

Hi, here’s my take on the “For Chewie” scene: https://vimeo.com/462088368

Added a line for C-3P0 so he doesn’t stay silent. I’m pretty sure someone can make it sound better

Hal 9000 said:

Just seems like too many chefs in the kitchen with making him into a clone after the movie comes out. At least, it’s hard for me to believe it was intended before that point.

I’m on the same page as you’re. When even palps return wasn’t planned beforehand than this clone mess neither

Yeah, pretty sure the clone-son thing was a retcon from someone at Lucasfilm who couldn’t stand the ick factor of Palps having biological offspring.

dgraham414 said:

I always understood the lore around Palps “son” to be that the bodies only deteriorated once his spirit went into them, since the bodies couldn’t contain that much force. With the son though, since he had no force connection Palps couldn’t enter him, so his body didn’t deteriorate

I guess this is the closest to canon yet. I always got the feeling that the reason Palp’s body was so deteriorated was because clone bodies cannot hold the Force potential of their host. This used to happen in Legends with the clones of Jorus C’Baoth and Luke becoming mad.

Sidious being a literal clone can be reasonably deduced from the movie and Hal’s edit reinforces that idea with the Palps bodies grown in vats. But there’s no indication that Rey’s father himself is a clone without looking into expanded material.

smpearce1981 said:

However (this critisism is not aimed at you or the edit) the more I watch the ‘Wedge’ shot, the more it annoys me!

On first viewing it was nice to see a familiar face…but as time has gone on his line ‘nice flying Lando’ really starts to irritate…

What is ‘nice flying’ exactly? A few rolls of the Falcon on it’s horizontal axis…in wide open space?

C’mon…we’ve seen that ship impressively navigate through some seriously tight spaces in it’s time, so I’m not sure a basic roll is anything worth gushing over (especially from someone like Wedge who just so happens to be a seasoned fighter pilot?)

That line is a callback to Lando’s first scene, where Rey tells him Leia needs pilots but he refuses saying “My flying days are long gone”.

It’s not hard to assume Wedge also knew Lando had “retired” from piloting a long while ago, so him saying “Nice flying Lando” is more of a “You still got it”. It’s a reminder that Lando hadn’t taken the pilot seat in a long time, and an acknowledgement that he has accepted the call that he refused back on Passana.

Did anyone think about giving Palpatine red lightning ? Personally would love the contrast between a slight blue hue and the red lightning. Even more colorful final battle with the purple and blue sabers.

Correct me if I’m wrong and apologies if this derails the conversation, but I thought Sheev’s son was said to be a clone made from Sheev’s DNA and someone else’s, which made him more of a son instead of a straight up clone. Because he would genetically be an offspring of two people. I distinctly remember seeing that and thinking how redundant it was to make him Sheev’s son without actual conception just to remove ick factors. He’s already a slimy, creepy old man. I’m shocked there aren’t dozens of Palpatines out there. How could you possibly be an evil overlord and not sleep with a single person?

NFBisms said:

Neerb said:
The reason the novel clarifies he’s a clone is because if he were Palps’ biological son, Palpatine would have had to have banged Rey’s grandma sometime during the late Empire, which is a gross thought we don’t need some EU writer detailing for us down the line.

speak for yourself damn

#PalpatineFucks