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The Rise Of Skywalker — Official Review and Opinions Thread — * SPOILERS * — Page 2

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Ryan-SWI said:

As there remains no proper restoration and release of the OOT, no, I’m not.

It’s 2019. There’s a thousand different options to watch the original version now, it’s not a big deal.

A thousand different options — that only a niche of hardcore fans knows/cares about.

The point isn’t that the OOT can’t be obtained; it’s that it’s been actively suppressed and forced into obscurity, which any cinephile should consider obscene.

“If you err it is not for me to punish you. We are punished by our sins not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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Ryan-SWI said:

As there remains no proper restoration and release of the OOT, no, I’m not.

It’s 2019. There’s a thousand different options to watch the original version now, it’s not a big deal.

theprequelsrule said:

So let’s hear it already! Somebody give me a synopsis of this film?

Return of the Jedi, but bad. There ya go.

In all seriousness:

  • Palpatine is back and it’s not explained how.

  • Kylo goes to find him and it’s not explained why he was looking for him, or how he knows he’s alive.

  • Snoke was a clone made by Palpatine. Not explained how or why, or anything more said on the matter.

  • Palpatine somehow has a whole fleet of Star Destroyers with Death Star guns on them. Not explained how.

  • Rey is a Palpatine, her Dad was Palpatine’s son (not explained how), so Rey is his granddaughter.

  • Rey and Kylo can both save people from death and bring them back to life. Not explained how.

  • Luke retconned from being a sad old suicidal man to “secretly” keeping tabs on Palpatine.

  • Luke and Leia retconned to “know” Rey was a Palpatine the entire time.

  • Leia dies, horrifically forced and poorly handled.

  • Han is in it as a “memory” (???). Makes no sense whatsoever, but then neither does anything in this stupid movie.

  • Palpatine shoots lightning at Rey, who deflects it back to Palpatine (Palpatine apparently decides that simply not shooting lightning anymore makes too much sense), then dies.

  • Ben almost dies. Then he comes back. Then he dies. But wait no not actually. Then he dies (for real this time).

  • Rey steals the Skywalker name.

  • Force ghost Luke and Leia. Both look horrific and Leia is clearly CGI. Because nothing shouts “respect” like CGI’ing the ghost of a dead actress into your film for cheap nostalgia brownie points.

Those are the main points. I could write an essay on everything that happens in this ridiculous movie but it’s not worth my time.

Jesus, what a cluster%&!

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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DuracellEnergizer said:

The point isn’t that the OOT can’t be obtained; it’s that it’s been actively suppressed and forced into obscurity, which any cinephile should consider obscene.

Yep I agree, but it’s not 2005 and anyone who googles the theatrical versions can find them in a heartbeat.

At this point it’s beating a dead horse. They’re never getting released officially, so George wins, but you also have easy access to them unofficially, so you win too.

Enough is enough, bitching about it every time George Lucas comes up in discussion is getting pathetic and contributes nothing to the conversation.

Regardless this isn’t a thread for the special editions, it’s for TROS.

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Ryan-SWI said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

The point isn’t that the OOT can’t be obtained; it’s that it’s been actively suppressed and forced into obscurity, which any cinephile should consider obscene.

Yep I agree, but it’s not 2005 and anyone who googles the theatrical versions can find them in a heartbeat.

At this point it’s beating a dead horse. They’re never getting released officially, so George wins, but you also have easy access to them unofficially, so you win too.

Enough is enough, bitching about it every time George Lucas comes up in discussion is getting pathetic and contributes nothing to the conversation.

Regardless this isn’t a thread for the special editions, it’s for TROS.

FWIW, I made my peace with Lucas a long time ago. My beef is with Disney now.

“If you err it is not for me to punish you. We are punished by our sins not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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Okay JJ, I get the message, Episode 8 never existed, and neither have 1-7. Thanks.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

The point isn’t that the OOT can’t be obtained; it’s that it’s been actively suppressed and forced into obscurity, which any cinephile should consider obscene.

Forced into obscurity? JJ Abrams mentioned the Despecialized Editions for goodness sake. 4K versions of the OOT are excellent in my book. Even better if they’re under the sole ownership of the fans.

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This movie is a nightmare. I’ve never seen such a exposition heavy clusterbomb. Thank goodness The Last Jedi was a self contained story, because it really can’t be touched.

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I was already planning on giving this a miss due to the previous movies being garbage. Now that I’ve read the spoilers and they’ve actually turned out to be true, it looks like it has somehow managed to be even worse than I’d expected. Definitely not going to waste my time on this crap now…

Ugh. Such a waste. I actually like Daisy Ridley and think her character could have been good in the hands of capable writers, but these clowns wouldn’t know good storytelling if it came up and bit them in the balls. Thanks a lot, Disney, for keeping this zombie franchise going well beyond the point it should have been allowed to expire with dignity.

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The pacing was comical, every scene that was meant to be emotional was immediately cut short before letting the audience feel anything.

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Ryan-SWI said:

In all seriousness:

  • Palpatine is back and it’s not explained how.

  • Kylo goes to find him and it’s not explained why he was looking for him, or how he knows he’s alive.

  • Snoke was a clone made by Palpatine. Not explained how or why, or anything more said on the matter.

  • Palpatine somehow has a whole fleet of Star Destroyers with Death Star guns on them. Not explained how.

  • Rey is a Palpatine, her Dad was Palpatine’s son (not explained how), so Rey is his granddaughter.

  • Rey and Kylo can both save people from death and bring them back to life. Not explained how.

  • Luke retconned from being a sad old suicidal man to “secretly” keeping tabs on Palpatine.

  • Luke and Leia retconned to “know” Rey was a Palpatine the entire time.

  • Leia dies, horrifically forced and poorly handled.

  • Han is in it as a “memory” (???). Makes no sense whatsoever, but then neither does anything in this stupid movie.

  • Palpatine shoots lightning at Rey, who deflects it back to Palpatine (Palpatine apparently decides that simply not shooting lightning anymore makes too much sense), then dies.

  • Ben almost dies. Then he comes back. Then he dies. But wait no not actually. Then he dies (for real this time).

  • Rey steals the Skywalker name.

  • Force ghost Luke and Leia. Both look horrific and Leia is clearly CGI. Because nothing shouts “respect” like CGI’ing the ghost of a dead actress into your film for cheap nostalgia brownie points.

Those are the main points. I could write an essay on everything that happens in this ridiculous movie but it’s not worth my time.

That’s the word to describe the movie. “Not explained”.
Palpatine is alive? Not explained.
The Chosen One prophecy? not explained.
Palpatine had a son? Not explained, and there’s not a single clue about it in previous movies, novels, comics.
They built the mistery of Snoke… just to throw it into the garbage by saying: “Oh, well, you know, he was a clone”.
The first thing Luke says is something about respect for the lightsaber. I mean, come on!
Palpatine’s plan changes three times in one single movie.
The kiss is just ridiculous.
The movie tries to link to Episode VI and the Rule of Two, but fails miserably, because if you watch Episode VI it is clear that Palpy just wants Luke to fall to the dark side and replace Anakin.

Italian faneditor.
EDITS LIST:

  1. CHOSEN ONE - A Star Wars Story: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/THE-CHOSEN-ONE-A-STAR-WARS-STORY-RELEASED/id/60721
  2. SHADOW OF THE PAST (EpI): https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/SHADOW-OF-THE-PAST-A-Phantom-Menace-edit/id/65473
  3. KEEPERS OF THE PEACE (EpII): https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/KEEPERS-OF-THE-PEACE-Attack-of-the-Clones-edit/id/66617/page/1#1274835
  4. THE SON OF SKYWALKER (EpIV): https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-Episode-IV-The-Son-of-Skywalker/id/69085

YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsWtMZobefiq04JNuS2jFLQ?view_as=subscriber

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Maaga said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

The point isn’t that the OOT can’t be obtained; it’s that it’s been actively suppressed and forced into obscurity, which any cinephile should consider obscene.

Forced into obscurity? JJ Abrams mentioned the Despecialized Editions for goodness sake.

Abrams isn’t Lucas.

“If you err it is not for me to punish you. We are punished by our sins not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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My review: a film to get drunk to and passively watch without processing the many logic gaps and conveniences (rooted in a safe, inept, albeit boardroom-approved screenplay) which are occurring onscreen. But in a state of sobriety this film is equal to that of a slightly more coherent Transformer (live action) movie. A smudgey cgi thrill ride with an emphasis on “ride”. It’s fine as casual/disposable/forgettable entertainment but fails as a meaningful SW film, managing to implode the purpose of the entirety of Disney’s Sequel Trilogy rather than give it even a salt’s grain of weight. The biggest takeaway however is how, by bringing back an old villain and overused stakes rather than actually developing more interesting/novel ones, Rise of Skywalker manages to shrink rather than expand the SW universe considerably.

*I’m not a PT fan (because of its execution) but I do really like the story of the PT and many isolated scenes within. The Kenobi fanedit has become my go to for revisits. While I thought that TFA was too generic to enjoy as a movie, there was a glimmer of hope in it’s characters and actors. TLJ edited without subplots is my favorite of the ST because it dares and risks and deconstructs perhaps even more than Empire does. However I’m more of a despecialized OT/RO/Solo fan. RO and Empire being my faves.

**I’m not disappointed in Disney so much as myself for holding out hope that they’d pull this cookie cutter of a trilogy off with their nearly limitless resources.

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That’s the word to describe the movie. “Not explained”.

Bingo.

Honestly as much as I hate to say it, I’m just done with new Star Wars all together after this. I hated TFA and TLJ but still spent years arguing about the problems with them because while 99.99% of me was done with Disney Star Wars, there was still that 00.01% of me that had hope things would change. I’m so passionate about Star Wars and its story because Star Wars means so much to me, so I guess arguing and debating TFA and TLJ gave me a reason to still care about the franchise; because maybe I’d “win” and things would get better if I just persisted.

After TROS I can’t even work up the energy to argue with people anymore, I just don’t care. I don’t even care enough to keep watching The Mandalorian; I’m finally 100% apathetic and disinterested in anything this zombie franchise has to offer anymore, they’ve lost all good will and I’ll never be giving them another cent.

They somehow found a way to torpedo cinema’s biggest franchise in just four years. If it wasn’t so tragic it’d be painfully impressive.

I don’t even think I’m mad about it, I just… Feel nothing. It’s too much energy to keep following something that makes me angry to even think about. I’m sick of hating Star Wars, so I’ll just keep George’s Saga of I - VI close and my library of Old EU books stocked, that’s all I need.

If people enjoy whatever the hell this Frankenstein of a franchise has turned into then cool, more power to you. But I can’t do this crap anymore, it’s not worth it.

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Just saw it, and I was entertained, but it is an empty spectacle, ROTJ on steroids. A zombie trilogy is an apt description, or a Frankenstein monster. It has all the outward appearance of a Star Wars trilogy, but no soul.

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I liked it. In fact I was surprised that I genuinely enjoyed it after the debacle of TLJ. In particular I loved the way Rey was tempted by Palpatine in the finale. The idea that she would have to succumb to darkness and inherit the throne as the only way to save her friends was exactly the kind of temptation ROTJ should have had for Luke.

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RU.08 said:

IlFanEditore said:

  1. The title… the most boring and obvious meaning. Rey who takes the name Skywalker. That’s all. Nothing from Luke, Leia or Anakin.
  2. Palpatine’s death is just ridiculous. First, in Episode III he didn’t die because of Force lightning being re-directed at him. Why does he die now? Plus, the whole “I’m all the Sith!!!” VS “I’m all the Jedi!!!” is… is… you choose the words.

LMAO, yeah I was thinking much the same thing. Also someone has posted a clip of that scene here. My problem with it is that Palps never cares about another Sith. He kills his master. He sends Darth Maul to his death, falsely promising “they will be no match for you”, do you think he cares? Of course not! He’s testing his apprentice to see if he’s strong enough for him. In the prequels, Palpatine has a really great but subtle character arc. His relationship with Anakin is very different to the one he had with Darth Maul, with Anakin they start out as friends and he uses him to betray the other Jedi. Palpatine single-handedly destroyed the Sith, and then he went about destroying the Jedi as well. So his line, never-mind Rey’s line, just makes no sense he would never say “I’m all the Sith” because he’s claiming to be all of something that he destroyed! He didn’t want to share his power, he didn’t train Darth Vader he just recognised how strong with the Force he was and brought him over to his side. In the original trilogy, Darth Vader is never referred to as a Sith, he’s a Jedi that has been converted to the dark side (for example I’ve always understood “Your sad devotion to that ancient religion …” to be referring to him as a Jedi not Sith).

Well… you seem to have missed the point. The Rule of Two is all about there can only be two Sith because they are always trying to kill each other. For Palpatine it really becomes the rule of three because he has an apprentice, but he always has backups floating around in case his apprentice gets too powerful and might kill him. His goal in ROTJ was for Luke to replace Vader. But Vader is plotting the same thing. In TESB he invites Luke to help him destroy the Emperor and rule at his side. That theme runs throughout the PT. Palpatine loses Maul and immediately has his eye on Anakin, but chooses Dooku as a good replacement to help his plan, but he waits for Anakin before executing it and then arranges a confrontation between them to see if Anakin is good enough to be his apprentice. So when he says “I’m all the Sith” he is saying that no one can take his place. He intends to be the top Sith forever. But what better way of defeating your enemy than becoming their master by turning them to the Dark side, something he is eveidently very good at considering his track record. So him seeming to have multiple plans is quite parallel to everything we have seen him do in ROTJ and the PT. He is either a genius have having multiple options or a genius at finding out how to turn a bad situation to his advantage.

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Shopping Maul said:

I liked it. In fact I was surprised that I genuinely enjoyed it after the debacle of TLJ. In particular I loved the way Rey was tempted by Palpatine in the finale. The idea that she would have to succumb to darkness and inherit the throne as the only way to save her friends was exactly the kind of temptation ROTJ should have had for Luke.

I hope I can enjoy it. Abrams does not have a good track record. So far I have seen 3 of his movies and I have the same felling about all of them. Good idea, bad execution. Star Trek blundered (great cast and great writing of dialog that is true to the Characters, but horrible story). Star Trek Into Darkness fell down a pit (seriously how do you rip off the best Trek film and do it so badly and cringeworthy). TFA was too much an homage to the OT. He cheated the ending by not giving one and doing his stupid mystery box story telling. Now the reports of TROS are that it is even more loving of on the OT while at the same time full of nonsense. I’m going to try and watch it the first time without thinking about editing it. But from the sounds of it, this might be the movie the most in need of major edits (a title I currently give to AOTC). But can it be saved by fan edit? But the reviews so far are just showing that even if I might like the ending on paper (the leaked plot sounded pretty good to me) the way Abrams executes and edits it might be the problem. No one should give him a beloved franchise project again. He f***s it up every time. Every f***ing time. I’m pissed at him and I haven’t even seen it yet. But I blame him because this has Abrams toxic touch all over it. I just hope I like it more then some others have. But considering I think that TFA is the worst of the 8 previous saga films, I don’t have much hope. Still, I love the characters and I hope someone put in enough good stuff that it can be edited into something enjoyable. I don’t know when I am going to see it. Maybe Sunday or maybe later over the holiday break. I was excited to see it, now I’m not. I think I’ll read the spoilers again.

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Going tonight with my nephew at 8pm. My expectations are LOW after TLJ, and the clip I saw on Jimmy Kimmel the other night was awful, but we’ll see! At least I’ll have an excuse to sit in the dark and eat candy for two and a half hours. But I think it’s pretty much safe to say that after this one— I’m done.

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Thanks very much for the heads up peeps. I’m never going to watch this.

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I’m glad this movie was as awful as it was because now I never have to watch the sequel trilogy again.

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Well it will be out on Blu-ray in March. I am willing to bet this will be the most cut film by the fan editors on this forum in the history or this site. Sounds like there is a shit ton to fix. Perhaps even more than TPM.

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I’ll hopefully be seeing this tonight with my girlfriend. My expectations are quite low, but I’m sure I’ll enjoy it a lot even if it is a complete mess. JJ movies are always fun, but they never hold up to much scrutiny.

TFA was a nostalgia trip, TLJ was the most original SW movie since ESB, RO was a hyper-realistic portrayal of SW77, and Solo was a low stakes adventure. They’ve all offered something enjoyable even if they have all had their issues.

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yotsuya said:

Well… you seem to have missed the point. The Rule of Two is all about there can only be two Sith because they are always trying to kill each other.

I’m aware of the Rule of Two but it is by no means a theme firmly established in the movies. There’s scope to believe whatever you want about the Sith in the George Lucas saga. I don’t think it’s any great “rule”, maybe it is, but I see it as Palpatine’s lust for the power of the force.

For Palpatine it really becomes the rule of three because he has an apprentice, but he always has backups floating around in case his apprentice gets too powerful and might kill him.

I think he uses other people, we see this in Attack of the Clones where he uses and betrays Count Dooku. There’s scope to believe what you want - perhaps its self-preservation because it’s the Sith way for the apprentice to kill his master. In fact Dooku has already betrayed Palpatine at this point, because he ratted him out to Obi-Wan when he tells him “the Republic is now under the control of a Dark Lord of the Sith … hundreds of senators are under the influence of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidious.” He couldn’t have been more specific than that, but Obi-Wan didn’t believe him. On the other hand is that Palpatine has no loyalty whatsoever to Dooku and is interested in replacing him with Anakin - perhaps Dooku has sensed this and is acting out of his own self-interest/preservation. There’s no one opinion on this that is necessarily proven right, as with good storytelling there’s scope for a range of possibilities.

His goal in ROTJ was for Luke to replace Vader. But Vader is plotting the same thing.

Palpatine’s goal is to rule the galaxy as supreme Emperor. Everything else is second to that really. That’s part of his character arc in the prequels - he creates wars by influencing both sides into war (even going so far as to arming both sides so that they can go to war) so that he can get the power to overthrow the Republic and create his own Galactic Empire. He’s motivated by power. Some of the execution of this in the prequels is very clumsy - like when Jar Jar sits in for Padme as a Senator and sponsors his bid for “emergency powers” (it does make sense in that he chases her away with assassins from being able to block him, but what doesn’t make any sense is Jar Jar doing her job, however it could have been done a lot better and certainly without Jar Jar).

One of the reasons he uses Anakin is because he wants to use him to manipulate the Jedi Council - that doesn’t work out exactly as he had planned, but he’s still able to get Anakin to betray the Jedi.

He is either a genius have having multiple options or a genius at finding out how to turn a bad situation to his advantage.

I don’t see it that way that he has “multiple options”, I think he uses “multiple strategies” to achieve his primary goal. So he secretly commissions an army to be built for the Republic. He convinces the Trade Federation to start a war with Naboo. He makes friends with the power-brokers in the Republic’s Senate so he can manipulate votes (a power broker is a politician who controls a large block of votes). He white-ants the incumbent Chancellor by manipulating the very young and impressionable Queen Padme Amidala. I believe this is when he decides to destroy the Sith, so that they will not be able to oppose him, and so that he can pursue his main goal to ultimately become the Supreme Galactic Emperor. So he sends his Sith apprentice to his death. 10 years later Padme doesn’t trust him, obviously, she probably recognises she was manipulated. She blocks his bid for an army, so he chases her away with assassins so he can create an army, create a full-scale war, put the Republic into a catastrophic emergency that justifies granting him “emergency powers”. Once he’s in this position, as Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, he unleashes the clone army he had secretly made which is much stronger than the Trade Federation and their allies, thereby guaranteeing him success in the war (this will make him a war hero to the Republic). This enables him to build more arms for the Republic. Once he has power, and he’s all but won the galactic war, the only ones that can oppose him are the Jedi, so he destroys them. He dismantles the Republic so he can create his ideal Galactic Empire and rule as Emperor, and from there he continues building their arms.

The whole story and character-act is completely coherent and consistent, at least as far as Palpatine is concerned. Dooku gets himself caught up in his plot somehow, and that’s actually quite a good curve-ball to his story (he can’t just rise to power completely unopposed). Where it gets messy is with some of the other characters like Jar Jar and Anakin who behave in ways that achieve Palpatine’s but are not consistent with their own characters.

__Valeyard.net

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yotsuya said:

But considering I think that TFA is the worst of the 8 previous saga films, I don’t have much hope. Still, I love the characters and I hope someone put in enough good stuff that it can be edited into something enjoyable. I don’t know when I am going to see it. Maybe Sunday or maybe later over the holiday break. I was excited to see it, now I’m not. I think I’ll read the spoilers again.

I think TFA is the worst as well, which is why I’m not going to buy a ticket for this one. Why see something you know you won’t like - just wait for Netflix release.

The biggest problem I think was in making the Sequel Trilogy all-out action films. That should have been saved for the stand-alone films, with the Saga films continuing the sci-fi/fantasy “space-opera” themes.

Now we know why a couple of months ago it leaked that they were doing re-shoots following the comments JJ made saying ROS “won’t please everyone”. Possibly those comments were taken out of context, but the leaked reports were that behind the scenes they were not happy with the film as it was, and even some early reviews have said the film felt rushed and unfinished.

My favourite prequel is Phantom Menace, I don’t mind the slapstick childish stuff in it, I don’t hate Jar Jar, I’m happy to share the film with a young child audience. Fundamentally it’s fantasy sci-fi you can’t take it too seriously, it’s meant to be fun not ultra-realistic. I like that there are children in the prequels - that feels more like the real world, unlike the typically Hollywood-universe where society somehow exists without children in it! I’m with Mark Hamill I think it was appalling how people treated Jake Lloyd. Today we would call that cyber-bullying, I’m not sure we knew about cyber-bulling yet in 1999, I digress. Like Mark Hamill says if you want to be angry about Jake Lloyd’s Anakin it’s the director you should be angry at, not the 10-year-old actor. It was a regression, in my humble opinion, to have made the Sequels with no kids in them.

__Valeyard.net

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Just saw it and liked it very much. Editing, music and acting are top.
Better than all the prequels, and perhaps the best of the second trilogy.

Gave me back the sense of adventure, action and magic that Star Wars is all about.
I felt like a 12 year old and that’s what matters 😃