The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 8

Having the sith create Anakin means that he was always destined to become evil and that takes away the whole story of how a good person can go bad.

Thinking that the sith have created Anakin is just a speculation, really. Yeah, it is kind of hinted, but the Sith would likely be much smarter than to create some boy on a backwater planet.

Well, Obi-Wan was farther away and he didn't spontaneously combust as you mentioned :D

Well, if you have an idea, great, the whole Anakin burning scene with Obi-Wan being a smartass was never my favorite ;)

but if we see anakin turn into vader, where is the surprise for ESB? i back ady for this.

just a note for palpatine vs mace windu fight:

i would love to see windu go alone, this would remove the crappy jedi deaths, plus make it seem a bit more dramamtic (he is going to take him ALONE?!)

also, maybe enstead of anakin pleading for windu to not kill sidious, ie:

windu "i am going to end this once and for all!"

sidious "no dont!"

anakin "i need him"

anakin attacks windu

the dialogue could run:

windu hols off lightening, almost overcome

windu:    "anakin, help me, end this!"

anakin ponders

anakin (COLDLY) "no."

anakin attacks windu (or maybe kills him?)

it would make his decision seem less passive, and maybe like he had decided before even entering the room. the "no" would be almost like when ISILDUR decides to keep the ring in Fellowship of the Ring, kind of callous and evil.

if vader isnt to feature as such, making anakins sabre red for the end fight would probably make the vader-skywalker link to obvious, so blue would fit better. it would be cool if we are left feeling like "anakin almost became a sith lord, thank god obi killed him before he got his red sabre"

the yoda - sidious fight, if it isnt removed ( i REALLY hated it) would be amazing if it is more like the wizards battle in harry potter V between voldemort and dumbledore, just lightening of two colours destroying everything around them. it would be neat having yoda never use his sabre (except when he beheads the clone troopers as ady said)

i would love to see windu go alone, this would remove the crappy jedi deaths, plus make it seem a bit more dramamtic (he is going to take ALONE?!)

I don't think so. Acting so spountainiously wasn't wise at most, going there alone would be just plain stupid.

but if we see anakin turn into vader, where is the surprise for ESB? i back ady for this.

Oh sure, apart from Anakin turning into Vader, there is absolutely no indication that Vader could possibly be Luke's father.

Btw, it's a bit sarcastic tone, no offence ment, mate.

Oh, and I've read AxiaEuxine's blog. While I do not fully agree with that editorial, I do think she (he? O_o) has some points. That's from a point of view of a guy who got accomodated with SW with EpI, in 1999, while he was just an 8-years old boy. I have my share of complaints, yes, but I do think that PT does something better than OT (and not only graphically-wise) and OT does something better than PT. But nevertheless, it's still one big saga.

Oh, and yeah. I don't like contradictions very much. But remember the greeks. They didn't have absolutely anything against contradictions in their mythology :p On the contray, some suppose they thought contradictions were necessary. Still would be glad if the contradictions in SW would be reduced to a minimum.

adywan said:

The Death Star at the end of ROTS was totally unnecessary and wrong on so many levels. So it took them 20 years to build the Death Star 1 but only 3 to build the second one? come on. Totally gone in Revisited.

I am toying with the idea that we don't see vader in the PT but I'm probably more inclined to give Vader a better role at the end. I want to see him hunting down and killing some of the remaining Jedi at the end not the stupid wimp screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!" Also i never understood why the hell he needs a lifesupport suit when all that happened was he got burned. His lungs wouldn't have been affected. I'm going to be adding something that explains why he has to breath artificially when i get to ROTS:R

 One way of keeping the Death Star in would be to show both being built together but one more complete than the other.

It would make sense that Palpatine would, eventually want at least one Death Star for each of the provinces he gives control over to the Governors, building just one and handing it over to someone like Tarkin is inviting him to use it to take over the Empire himself (but perhaps Palpatine intended to rule the Galaxy in the same dog eat dog manner as the Sith work), if he built more than one at once there would be another one to keep the ambitions of the Governors in check (it would also bring back the great idea of two Death Stars being built from the earlier draughts of Revenge Of The Jedi).

But it would make more sense to get the Imperial fleet built first so seeing Star Destroyers being constructed is fine by me.

As for Vader's lungs however they would certainly be damaged (presumably Vader used the force to keep himself alive while he waited to be rescued).

People who are trapped in house fires may suffer from smoke inhalation independent of receiving skin burns; however, the incidence of smoke inhalation increases with the percentage of total body surface area burned.

Vader receives massive burns to almost all of his remaining body and the heat and smoke would have been much more intense than in any house fire and would have effectively written off his lungs so I have no problem with him being stuck in the black suit after such a series of injuries.

I would love to have seen Vader in his suit in a fight or two and if you can see a way of pulling that off it would be grand.

My earlier idea of giving Threepio a very different voice in his junk days (still the same traits of panic and apparent cowardice but in a used car sales man manner instead of a fussy butler...once again returning an early draught concept into the saga) you could dub any lines in there and use him to bend the story into much more interesting areas but as always it's your project and you go where you want to with it and I don't know how I'm going to cope while I'm waiting to see you efforts come to fruition.

P.S. while writing this a number of my points have been taken up by other people...what can I say...I'm just a very slow typist.

adywan said:

Hell yes. Much better storyline. it shows how a good person can turn evil and how power corrupts and not that he was built to be evil from conception. That whole thing changes much of what was said about Anakin in the OT. If he was created by the sith he would have had evil in him all the time and would not have been a good man and turns Vader into a puppet. If he was destined to become evil then he would never have turned back to the good side in ROTJ. The fact that he was only manipulated and not created to be a Sith displays why Luke can sense that there was still good in him and that because it was only manipulation that turned him he was able to save his son.. Changing the PT to fit with the OT is the way to go and never the other way around.

I actually like the idea that the Jedi have this 'Chosen One' prophesy and a Sith Lord exploits it by putting a wolf into the fold, only for him to actually be the 'Chosen One' and bite back. It's almost as if Darth Plagueis had the last laugh, he knew that Sidious would kill him and created a means of getting Revenge on the Jedi and his apprentice from beyond the grave. It also shows that people who are set up as messiah type figures are just as capable of turning bad or good at anytime (something pinched from the Dune books like so much in Star Wars) and it also has that Greek theatre feel of the Gods (or the Force) being so poweful and unpredictable that thinking you are in control of such power is the biggest mistake you could make.

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

As for Vader's lungs however they would certainly be damaged (presumably Vader used the force to keep himself alive while he waited to be rescued).

People who are trapped in house fires may suffer from smoke inhalation independent of receiving skin burns; however, the incidence of smoke inhalation increases with the percentage of total body surface area burned.

Vader receives massive burns to almost all of his remaining body and the heat and smoke would have been much more intense than in any house fire and would have effectively written off his lungs so I have no problem with him being stuck in the black suit after such a series of injuries.

But you forget that the reason smoke inhalation is such a serious problem to lungs is that it is in an enclosed space but the lava scene in in an open space so the smoke would never have affected him enough for the life-support suit.

His entire body is going up in flames, and his clothing and he is laying face down on beach of burning coals...even so the heat damage would have pretty much baked the inside of his lungs beyond repair... It's a miracle of the Force that he didn't die before Palpatine and Co got to him.

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

As for Vader's lungs however they would certainly be damaged (presumably Vader used the force to keep himself alive while he waited to be rescued).

People who are trapped in house fires may suffer from smoke inhalation independent of receiving skin burns; however, the incidence of smoke inhalation increases with the percentage of total body surface area burned.

Vader receives massive burns to almost all of his remaining body and the heat and smoke would have been much more intense than in any house fire and would have effectively written off his lungs so I have no problem with him being stuck in the black suit after such a series of injuries.

But you forget that the reason smoke inhalation is such a serious problem to lungs is that it is in an enclosed space but the lava scene in in an open space so the smoke would never have affected him enough for the life-support suit.

His entire body is going up in flames, and his clothing and he is laying face down on beach of burning coals...even so the heat damage would have pretty much baked the inside of his lungs beyond repair... It's a miracle of the Force that he didn't die before Palpatine and Co got to him.

 

That still doesn't explain it. You need to read about this guy who was a soldier in the falklands war. This guy was in a ship, which was an enclosed space that was turned into a fireball and he doesn't have any breathing problems. Look at the scene where Anakin burns. there is a minimal amount of smoke and almost none rising from the coals. the flames are all heading skywards and because he is on his front it wouldn't have affected him enough to damage his lungs that bad.

 

Technically speaking the whole fight isn't very realistic as the super heated steam and sulfurous fumes would have resulted in Obi-Wan being in an iron lung too. Even at the distance that Obi-Wan is from the lava after his jump it would have been hotter than a furnace and they spent a long time fighting right over the top of the stuff with minimal damage to their clothes...let alone their bodies.

Lava is very, very hot and the air surrounding it is very, very hot and this isn't just a single volcano, this is a volcanic planet so the air would be un-breathable anyway.

Star Wars isn't science fiction, it's fantasy, it's Sinbad with space ships (which is why I'm behind 1000% about removing the muddy clawings and returning The Force to a mystical power as it always should have been ). The only sequence that met and actually went beyond my childhood expectations that bubbled up from the moment the words "Episode IV" appeared on a cinema screen was the Obi-Wan/Mannikin Skywalker duel.

But as always it's your project and if you can think of an even better way of getting Vader into that suit go for it with my unwavering support.

Erikstormtrooper said:

For anyone interested, A Digital Man's edit of the opera scene in ROTS is awesome. He subtly removes reference to the midichlorians, but everything else is the same.

Slumberland does a good job of removing them too, relatively speaking it's one of the easiest fixes on the prequel trilogy.

This thread is really about suggesting changes which are more ambitious.

Sticking a sequence with a suited Vader taking on Jedi is a massive undertaking which while great playing in your head would give me nightmares if I had to try and pull it off.

Throwing down big heavy metal gauntlets is the game here and that woolly mitten has already been picked up successfully.

On the subject of Vader's suit, I do wish he was wearing a more primitive one to start off with.

It would be grand to see this one in ROTS :

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/114/420887657_6c770f2e99_o.jpg 

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Bingowings:

"Sticking a sequence with a suited Vader taking on Jedi is a massive undertaking which while great playing in your head would give me nightmares if I had to try and pull it off."

Perhaps there is an existing fanfilm that features a scene like this.  One that Adywan would tinker around with and then insert into RotS, similar to the brief shot of the inside of the TIE Fighter that was lifted from Star Wars: Revelations and then added to the Battle of Yavin in ANH: R.

 

Also, Bingowings, your link is broken.

That's weird because you are the second person to say that about a link I've posted but they are working here...??????

It was a link to a picture of a model based on McQuarrie's earlier Vader design.

 Can you see what it is yet?

Rhikter said:

I just get an empty box that says "Image currently not available."

The machines hate me now.

I hope you can see the image above?

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by TMBTM:

“To me it's clear that the midichlorians are not the Force, they are just life formes in your blood that helps you to "feel" the Force”

I used to be okay with viewing midi-chlorianss as the “organ” that allowed you to use the force, thereby distinguishing them as two very different things, but then it was pointed out to me that if this were the case you could create an army of Jedi clones.  Now I hate midi-chlorians again.

Originally posted by Monroville:

“…and the names in the prequels sound stupid or beyond childish (Jar Jar, Padme, Naboo, Darth Maul and Sidious, COUNT DOOKU, etc)?  I mean, Lucas named a villian after a Number 2 fer chrissake!”

What are you talking about?  These names are no more ridiculous than any in the OT.  I think you’re just shrugging them off as lesser because they came from the PT and not the OT.

Originally posted by Monroville:

“Let's not forget that the reason 3P0 and R2 have personalities is BECAUSE they've never had their minds wiped!”

Actually, astromech droids are the only ones that become “eccentric” if they go without a memory wipe for so long.

Originally posted by OzoneSherrif:

“When i see this Darth Maul Grievous i'm reminded of Darth Maul staying alive after Phantom Menace and getting robotic horse legs. it's totally goofy”

What are you talking about???

Originally posted by Octorox:

“Too much seperatist technology looks MORE advanced than what's used in the OT.”

This is one that I’m really sick of hearing.  The tech in the PT is not more advanced than that of the OT.  It’s a stylized primitiveness.  Think about the era that the OT was released in.  Everything, cars especially, had a very sharp and angular quality to them. Think about how you can see a lot of the working pieces on the Y-Wing and X-Wing.

   

The PT as an art style inspired more by the Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon era; an era that predates the one in which the OT was released.  Think about how everything is so sleek and rounded and then look at the Naboo Starfighter or Bail Organa’s speeder.
         

 

Lastly, Farlander, please do not write such ridiculously long posts.  Either do it in increments or reread before you post to make sure there isn't stuff that you can take out but still get your point accross.

Okay, if the tech isn't more advanced than why can't Darth Vader climb up walls and fight with four lightsabers at once? Why can't the empire have an army of roly poly droids that can be stored in masses, deploy personal bubble shields and take out Jedi. Droids in the OT hobble or roll along. Droids in the PT can run around and attack people.