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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 351

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I know, I’ve heard the story.

I don’t think he was thinking of Sequels at the time.

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Yeah, George insisting in the AOTC commentary that everything around Sifo-Dyas (and Kamino being missing in the archives) is going to be explained in the next movie is quite funny in retrospect, since it would actually be 12 years before it was addressed at all, by something Lucas was involved in at least. Something something nO pLaN.

I kind of feel it’d’ve been better if he’d just left it as Sido-Dyas to keep the plot of the prequel trilogy more self-contained. That’s something you could definitely do in a fanedit with a little audio tweaking, or by dubbing and subtitling the Kaminoans, if you weren’t concerned with maintaining continuity with TCW.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

I know, I’ve heard the story.

I don’t think he was thinking of Sequels at the time.

It’s hard to say as Steven Spielberg said in a 90’s BBC special that part of George’s concept for the Prequels was the Sequels. He also slipped up in an interview during the lead up to Attack of the Clones where he mentioned story points in II have to connect with VII.

I think some of it was left open to the possibility but not too much in case he never did. That’s why things were addressed in Labyrinth of Evil at first and then another time in Darth Plagueis novel. There would be some kind of explanation but not necessarily what he had in mind until he addressed things in Clone Wars with his explanation that would be added to and finally come full circle in his Sequels.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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It’s hard to say as Steven Spielberg said in a 90’s BBC special that part of George’s concept for the Prequels was the Sequels. He also slipped up in an interview during the lead up to Attack of the Clones where he mentioned story points in II have to connect with VII.

Sources?

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Anakin Starkiller said:

It’s hard to say as Steven Spielberg said in a 90’s BBC special that part of George’s concept for the Prequels was the Sequels. He also slipped up in an interview during the lead up to Attack of the Clones where he mentioned story points in II have to connect with VII.

Sources?

“The challenge for me is telling a six-part story: so in Episode I there are things that I have to get in that refer to Episode VII… no, hang on, we’re not there yet. I mean Episode IV.”

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2002/may/15/news.seanclarke

Correction it was Episode I plot threads in Episode VII. It does show he had a plan of sorts. Nothing fully definitive but I can definitely see plot lines that tie into things he talked about for his Sequels. I think he always had a broad idea of where he wanted to take the story. It’s just the details that needed to be worked out. The Sequels were always less fleshed out than the Prequels.

As far as the Steven Spielberg (Rick McCallum too) bits:

https://youtu.be/jeVNa0cDOSk

3:42 minute mark.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

It’s hard to say as Steven Spielberg said in a 90’s BBC special that part of George’s concept for the Prequels was the Sequels. He also slipped up in an interview during the lead up to Attack of the Clones where he mentioned story points in II have to connect with VII.

Sources?

“The challenge for me is telling a six-part story: so in Episode I there are things that I have to get in that refer to Episode VII… no, hang on, we’re not there yet. I mean Episode IV.”

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2002/may/15/news.seanclarke

Correction it was Episode I plot threads in Episode VII. It does show he had a plan of sorts. Nothing fully definitive but I can definitely see plot lines that tie into things he talked about for his Sequels. I think he always had a broad idea of where he wanted to take the story. It’s just the details that needed to be worked out. The Sequels were always less fleshed out then the Prequels.

As far as the Steven Spielberg (Rick McCallum too) bits:

https://youtu.be/jeVNa0cDOSk

3:42 minute mark.

That interview has him going on and on about how much he doesn’t want to make sequels. I think it’s fair to call it just a slip up.

Also worth noting he says stuff that we just know is false, like “[Revenge of the Sith] completes the saga as originally written.”

Death of the Author

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SparkySywer said:

Stardust1138 said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

It’s hard to say as Steven Spielberg said in a 90’s BBC special that part of George’s concept for the Prequels was the Sequels. He also slipped up in an interview during the lead up to Attack of the Clones where he mentioned story points in II have to connect with VII.

Sources?

“The challenge for me is telling a six-part story: so in Episode I there are things that I have to get in that refer to Episode VII… no, hang on, we’re not there yet. I mean Episode IV.”

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2002/may/15/news.seanclarke

Correction it was Episode I plot threads in Episode VII. It does show he had a plan of sorts. Nothing fully definitive but I can definitely see plot lines that tie into things he talked about for his Sequels. I think he always had a broad idea of where he wanted to take the story. It’s just the details that needed to be worked out. The Sequels were always less fleshed out then the Prequels.

As far as the Steven Spielberg (Rick McCallum too) bits:

https://youtu.be/jeVNa0cDOSk

3:42 minute mark.

That interview has him going on and on about how much he doesn’t want to make sequels. I think it’s fair to call it just a slip up.

Also worth noting he says stuff that we just know is false, like “[Revenge of the Sith] completes the saga as originally written.”

It’s certainly possible but he also denied the Sequels after the backlash he got for the Prequels. So it’s certainly possible it could’ve been a slip up that went either way as it was around this time he started saying the Sequels won’t happen. Afterall there’s quite a few plot points in The Phantom Menace that connect to his Sequels.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Look, all evidence points to him constantly changing his mind. Yes, he’s said he wanted to do 9 films. There was also a time when he wanted to do 12. In 2005 he’d settled on 6 and hasn’t walked back on it since. Yes, he did propose Sequels to Disney, but only because they were gonna make them anyway.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Look, all evidence points to him constantly changing his mind. Yes, he’s said he wanted to do 9 films. There was also a time when he wanted to do 12. In 2005 he’d settled on 6 and hasn’t walked back on it since. Yes, he did propose Sequels to Disney, but only because they were gonna make them anyway.

All creatives and artists change their mind. Why is George so ridiculed for evolving and changing his stance and opinions from time to time about the story he wants to tell? I’ll never understand it.

He quickly trimmed things down from twelve to nine in the 80’s. Then he changed his stance in the late 90’s to early 2000’s from nine to six but whose to say that wasn’t because of the backlash that he was getting?

He also said many times the Sequels he had in mind were never as fleshed out as the Prequels. I think the most likely scenario is he only had notions and a handful of definitive plot points of where he wanted to take things and the development took greater shape in 2011 when he started to get fully creative and exploring what he wanted to tell in his Sequels. He incorporated new ideas and ones he had in the early days and during the making of the Prequels. Afterall in Paul Duncan’s book he talked about how he wanted to explore things with the more metaphysical aspects of the Force in the Prequels but held back due to the backlash he faced from Midi-Chlorians. I also don’t think Steven Spielberg or Rick McCallum would be spitballing if he didn’t have something in mind of where he wanted to take the story. Even Mark Hamill has alluded to this.

He nearly made Episode VII himself before handing it over to Disney. We don’t know whether or not they would’ve ever done a Sequel Trilogy or not. It’s not clear if they would have done it or not. It’s more than likely but we don’t know for absolute sure.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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I just thought of a change to ROTS here, but I was wondering if it was at all possible to do in an edit, and if anyone had tried it before.

It seems like it would be possible through cuts. Here’s what I’m imagining - The end of the film is changed so Anakin never murders the Younglings or even goes to the temple. He leaves directly for Mustafar to end the war, and Order 66 happens en-route. Obi-wan then concocts the Youngling killing lie to get Padme to go to Anakin, whereupon they have their tragic fight.

Changes to the Chancellor’s office:

“What have I done?!”
“You’re fulfilling your destiny, Anakin.”
“Just help me save Padme’s life…I can’t live without her.”
“To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I’m sure we can discover the secret.”
“I pledge myself to your teachings.”
“Good. Good. Henceforth, you shall be known as…Vader. Rise.”
“Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate, show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough to save Padme.”
“What about the Jedi spread across the galaxy?”
“Their betrayal will be dealt with. Go to the Mustafar system. Wipe out Viceroy Gunray and the other Separatist leaders. Then…we shall have peace.”

Cut the scenes of Anakin at the temple, and any mention of the Temple attack.

In the scene where Anakin leaves for Mustafar, cut the talk of the attack and of the Jedi already killed. Anakin’s hope that Obi-wan remains loyal to the Chancellor could be sincere. His mission to kill the Separatists is now the act which will make him strong enough to save Padme, which is why he promises that things will be different when he returns.

After this scene, Palpatine orders 66. The Jedi are killed and Anakin feels their deaths before he arrives on Mustafar. Anakin doesn’t kill Younglings and Obi-wan doesn’t find a recording to this effect. His conversation with Padme however does have him say that he has found such a recording, which the audience knows to be a lie since Anakin left before the temple attack. This goads Padme into trying to find Anakin to ascertain the truth, and Anakin’s anger at Obi-wan’s lie is genuine. The end of the film is far more tragic now that Obi-wan can be said to have torn the two apart…from a certain point of view.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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In ANH Obi-Wan described Vader as having hunted down the Jedi, so your idea conflicts with that.

Also, so… Obi-Wan’s lying to Padmé to locate Anakin?

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TestingOutTheTest said:

In ANH Obi-Wan described Vader as having hunted down the Jedi, so your idea conflicts with that.

Also, so… Obi-Wan’s lying to Padmé to locate Anakin?

I can’t believe I’m engaging with Testing again but… plenty of Jedi survived Order 66. In both the old EU and the current canon, there are many comics and stories of Vader finding and killing these survivors. Vader killing most of them when they were all rounded up in a temple is barely “hunting down” to begin with!

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You could easily repurpose the shots of Anakin angrily crying on Mustafar to be part of the Order 66 montage, like how Yoda senses it and nearly collapses.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

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Bold, intriguing idea. One milder spin on it could be that Obi-Wan sincerely thinks Anakin killed the younglings because he finds the bodies with lightsaber wounds (inflicted by Sidious himself), then finds the hologram of Sidious telling Anakin to “bring peace to the Empire” (maybe with the implication being the Jedi bugged the Chancellor’s office, further highlighting how morally-compromised the Order has become), and draws an understandable but erroneous conclusion with disastrous consequences.

Co-author of STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER - THE TEAM DALE REWRITE

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Stardust1138 said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

Look, all evidence points to him constantly changing his mind. Yes, he’s said he wanted to do 9 films. There was also a time when he wanted to do 12. In 2005 he’d settled on 6 and hasn’t walked back on it since. Yes, he did propose Sequels to Disney, but only because they were gonna make them anyway.

All creatives and artists change their mind. Why is George so ridiculed for evolving and changing his stance and opinions from time to time about the story he wants to tell? I’ll never understand it.

He’s not ridiculed, and nobody cares that he changes his mind. People point out that these grand narratives he likes to spin about Star Wars, and that his fans seem to like to spin on their own independent of him, often contradict reality and each other. One of these being that he totally had this huge 6 part, 9 part, 12 part, or whatever the story is today part, story planned out all the way back in 1973.

TestingOutTheTest said:

In ANH Obi-Wan described Vader as having hunted down the Jedi, so your idea conflicts with that.

Neverar’s idea doesn’t contradict ANH any worse than the theatrical RotS already does.

I’d probably avoid the younglings altogether, though. Palpatine killing them feels really goofy, I’m just imagining him spinning all over the Jedi temple lol

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Cadavra said:

Bold, intriguing idea. One milder spin on it could be that Obi-Wan sincerely thinks Anakin killed the younglings because he finds the bodies with lightsaber wounds (inflicted by Sidious himself), then finds the hologram of Sidious telling Anakin to “bring peace to the Empire” (maybe with the implication being the Jedi bugged the Chancellor’s office, further highlighting how morally-compromised the Order has become), and draws an understandable but erroneous conclusion with disastrous consequences.

That’s a possibility, though it may become too confusing. The cleanest idea would probably be to just cut Yoda’s line about the lightsaber wounds.

Rewatching the scene of Obi-wan confronting Padme, the camera really focuses on Obi-wan as he speaks about the Younglings. It’s interesting how he turns away from Padme and partially covers his mouth, presumably because the truth is too horrible to say outright but it also feels a lot like the character’s half-truth in ANH about Anakin’s death. That Obi-wan is even now willing to twist the truth to persuade leads right into the OT.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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sade1212 said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

In ANH Obi-Wan described Vader as having hunted down the Jedi, so your idea conflicts with that.

Also, so… Obi-Wan’s lying to Padmé to locate Anakin?

I can’t believe I’m engaging with Testing again but… plenty of Jedi survived Order 66. In both the old EU and the current canon, there are many comics and stories of Vader finding and killing these survivors. Vader killing most of them when they were all rounded up in a temple is barely “hunting down” to begin with!

Okay, but how would Obi-Wan know about that?

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TestingOutTheTest said:

sade1212 said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

In ANH Obi-Wan described Vader as having hunted down the Jedi, so your idea conflicts with that.

Also, so… Obi-Wan’s lying to Padmé to locate Anakin?

I can’t believe I’m engaging with Testing again but… plenty of Jedi survived Order 66. In both the old EU and the current canon, there are many comics and stories of Vader finding and killing these survivors. Vader killing most of them when they were all rounded up in a temple is barely “hunting down” to begin with!

Okay, but how would Obi-Wan know about that?

The same way he learned that Anakin survived Mustafar, I suppose.

Albus Percival Wulfric Fucking Brian Dumbledore

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TestingOutTheTest said:

Didn’t Obi-Wan find out about his name in the hologram?

Obi-Wan learned that Vader survived through a holonews broadcast that showed an image of ol’darthie walking and over it the broadcaster called him Darth Vader.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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Yes I suppose, but he still needed to learn that Vader was still around. And if the news of some Sith Lord in a black suite called Darth Vader roaming the galaxy reached Obi-Wan, I am sure that he caught some whispers and stories of Inquisitors and this Vader hunting rouge Jedi too.

JEDIT: Didn’t knew Vader made the news. But either way Obi had 19 years to hear stories about Jedi being hunted down and connect the dots.

Albus Percival Wulfric Fucking Brian Dumbledore

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JackNapier said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Didn’t Obi-Wan find out about his name in the hologram?

Obi-Wan learned that Vader survived through a holonews broadcast that showed an image of ol’darthie walking and over it the broadcaster called him Darth Vader.

We’re taking movie canon, here.

@Peter Pan Obi-Wan knew about the attack on the Jedi temple

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TestingOutTheTest said:

sade1212 said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

In ANH Obi-Wan described Vader as having hunted down the Jedi, so your idea conflicts with that.

Also, so… Obi-Wan’s lying to Padmé to locate Anakin?

I can’t believe I’m engaging with Testing again but… plenty of Jedi survived Order 66. In both the old EU and the current canon, there are many comics and stories of Vader finding and killing these survivors. Vader killing most of them when they were all rounded up in a temple is barely “hunting down” to begin with!

Okay, but how would Obi-Wan know about that?

I consider this another bonus to the idea since it leads the audience to imagine events between films instead of connecting every dot like the audience is comprised entirely of infants.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I feel like what you’re proposing would be a plot hole (you’re probably already aware of what it is, but when two plot points directly contradict each other).

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TestingOutTheTest said:

a plot hole (you’re probably already aware of what it is, but when two plot points directly contradict each other).

Are the mods ever gonna do anything about this condescending prick? It’s really getting old seeing posts like this every time I try to enjoy this site.

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