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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 273

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ben_danger said:

An old member named SSWR had some similar ideas years ago - trying to turn Mace Windu into a sort of Snape character, who was a sort of tragic hero. Sadly he closed his youtube account a while back so some of his videos are lost - but there are some here -

AOTC COUNCIL
ROTS WINDU
ROTS ANAKIN’S TURN

A lot was achieved with adding different context to various head turns and grumpy expressions. He had a bunch of other videos, including a brilliant ending to ROTS that was never recovered.
Ah yes–the fan-o-matic!
I’m fairly new around here, but the 'matic has always impressed me every times I’ve seen a clip of it.

Those ROTS clips were quite chilling–in a good way. Too bad that’s not what George did.
Anakin’s fall to the dark as presented in the PT never rang true to me. Worried that his wife is gonna die (due to a DREAM), and killing children? Sure, it explains how he became evil, but it doesn’t explain how he became Darth Vader. Darth Vader isn’t Darth Maul (vicious, mindless animal) or Kylo Ren (emo baddie).

The PT would have worked best like this:
EPISODE ONE:
(basically the phantom menace and attack of the clones rolled into one film)

Obi-wan (no qui-gon, (I thought Yoda trained him?)) helps free Naboo from the Confederacy of Independant Systems (already a thing at this point), which is led by a Count Dooku figure. Somewhere along the way Kenobi meets (in his late teens) Anakin, who eventually becomes his apprentice. Mace Windu is opposed to this. Anakin also meets Padme (not a queen) and it’s obvious they like each other.

The Republic is freaked out about the Separatists and wants action immediately. Chancellor Valorum is criticized for letting the situation get to the point where it’s basically coming to war. (to make matters worse, the republic has no galaxy-wide army. individual planets may have forces, but the entire galaxy does not)

Meanwhile, we get a subplot about the Jedi council finding out about some clones that have been grown on Kamino. The makers of the clones simply say they are ‘opportunists’ who have seen the war coming. (of course they’ve really been planted by Palpatine)

The Jedi Council and Valorum are leery, but the Senators and people of the galaxy don’t care. They want action! Naboo must be rescued! So Valorum, realizing that stuff must be done, gets a law passed that creates a GRAND ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC. This army is under the command of the office of the chancellor, and will be assisted by the Jedi.

Then Valorum, under criticism for his handling of this situation, resigns. (this is a practice unfamiliar to the USA, but in many other countries, the Prime Minister will resign when things “go bad” under his watch.)(or it could be a ‘vote of no confidence’, either one). Either way, Palpatine becomes Chancellor, partially out of pity (Naboo is the planet he represents) and partially because he has been a strong voice against the Separatists, and it seems now he’s been validated.

Anyway, the brand-new clone army attacks Naboo, and frees it…but begun, the clone wars have!

EPISODES II AND III
With the political story of Episode I out of the way, I don’t think we need much more politics. I think the audience can accept that over the course of the war, Palpatine simply became more and more powerful with the army under his command, and the senate became more and more irrelevant yes-men. Also Palpatine appointed regional military governours.

Episodes II and III are really focused on Anakin and Obi-wan.
Anakin (between I and II) has married Padme (no Jedi forbidden love). He is a stong Jedi commander and often works with Obi-wan under the command of Bail Organa (this validates the OT).
Basically, Anakin is one of the most powerful jedis ever. He is frustrated by Mace Windu’s percieved attempts to hold him back and snub him.
He is also frustrated by the incompetence and idiocy of the army-men under his command. One time, after they lose a battle they should have won, he starts to force-choke a lieutenant in anger. Obi-wan is alarmed by this and makes Anakin stop. Anakin apologizes, but he’s still angry.

The story would end much like the fan-o-matic presents. Anakin is hungry for even more power. He is fed up with stupid bureaucrats and a Jedi order that seems to hate/fear him (personified by Mace Windu). Palpatine and Obi-wan seem to be the only ones who understand him. Palpatine’s vision of a galaxy ruled by a strong leader (an emperor) is attractive to him. Obi-wan agrees that Mace Windu focuses too much on himself, and not on the Jedi principals, but concedes that Mace is an incredibly powerful Jedi and has a right to be at the head of the Order.

Of course, eventually Anakin learns that Palpatine is a Sith! He’s shocked, and Anankin turns him in. Mace, knowing Anakin is a friend of Palpatine, uses this opportunity to accuse him of fraternizing with the enemy…

And you get the point. Anakin ends up killing Mace Windu, and, with Palpatine’s approval, begins to use his new powers in dark ways. Somewhere along the line the clones execute order 66…

“I thought I could be as good of a teacher as Master Yoda. I was wrong.”

As events get worse and worse, Obi-wan realizes that he has, in effect, failed. Anakin is becoming a monster of a man–a ruthless, cold military commander.
They end up on Muustafar together, where Obi-wan says "Wrongs (meaning Mace’s treatment of Anakin) do not justify other wrongs."
They talk for a little more, and anakin gets very angry. Obi-wan says something along the lines of "perhaps Mace Windu was right about you, Anakin!"
Anakin can’t believe his master is saying this and sees it as a betrayal. It gets to the point where Anakin pulls a lightsaber on Obi-wan…
and this is where Obi-wan realizes that Anakin’s new powers he’s learned from palpatine are the beginnings of his training…in the ways of the Sith! (only Mace was told palps was a sith)
Obi-wan becomes very alarmed and says that Anakin is following an evil path!
Eventually, they end up dueling, and Anakin falls into the lava pit.
FIN!

WEIRD, WACKO IDEA:
Mace Windu’s title, as head of the Jedi Order, is Darth Vader, which means “master of all force users” or something like that. The symbol of this office is the purple lightsaber, which has been handed down since ancient times. It represents the user’s mastery of all the force–the head of the Jedi Order was supposed to understand (not use, mind you) the dark and the light, or something like that.
This lightsaber is destroyed when Anakin kills Mace Windu.

This way, the audience is tricked into thinking that Ben isn’t lying–Anakin’s hatred towards Mace is the reason Anakin had to be killed. We assume Mace Windu somehow survived his injuries.

In truth, though, Darth Vader is in actuality Anakin Skywalker. His taking of the name shows that he arrogantly feels “now I am the master”… because he’s killed Mace.

Wow…that went way longer than I thought it would. I wonder if I should make my own fan-o-matic based on this…I’m not sure it’d be possible… it would take a lot of dubbing!

Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? none holds them up except Allah. Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe. – Quran (16:79)

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Just when I think I’ve heard everything about remixing the prequels, someone comes along with a brilliant idea.

The Mace angle would be very cool to see in action. I doubt it could be pulled off in the films, but one thing that could change is that Mace would have a red lightsaber (or very close to red) which differentiates him from the other Jedi. After all, there’s nothing in the films that states that only Sith must wield red. This makes his association with Darth Vader even stronger.

I am imagining the Saturday Morning Episode III except that we don’t see Mace’s defenestration. Palpatine shouts ‘UNLIMITED POWERRRR’ and then cut to the next scene. The implication upon watching ANH is that Mace was so suborned by Palpatines’s power that he had no choice but to serve the Emperor.

The problem with this interpretation is that Mace is clearly older than Obi-wan, and Obi-wan said that Vader was a young Jedi and his pupil. So either Mace would have to be dramatically de-aged (possible, but it undercuts his authority in the council and is less believable in the OT) or Obi-wan must be quite a bit older. I think both things would have to happen. Mace would have to be in his 30’s, and Obi-wan would need to be in his 50’s. This actually makes more sense than the continuity of the prequels, since we are supposed to believe that Obi-wan ages from 35 to 75 in the span of 19 years. If Obi-wan was aged appropriately, he could genuinely be a father figure to Anakin.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
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NeverarGreat said:
Mace would have to be in his 30’s, and Obi-wan would need to be in his 50’s. This actually makes more sense than the continuity of the prequels, since we are supposed to believe that Obi-wan ages from 35 to 75 in the span of 19 years. If Obi-wan was aged appropriately, he could genuinely be a father figure to Anakin.

Good point. In Retrospect, I’m not sure why George didn’t just combine the Qui-gon and Obi-wan characters in the first place. We didn’t need to see Obi-wan as a padawan, and Obi-wan having a master that died didn’t add anything to the other movies. An aged up Obi-wan could have easily done what Qui-gon did in The Phantom Menace.

Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? none holds them up except Allah. Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe. – Quran (16:79)

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Considering age, Anakin should’ve been closer to Obi Wan’s age…Of course I thought they made a mistake casting the 70+ Sebastian Shaw as Vader. If the prequels are canon, Vader shouldn’t been older than 50 in ROTJ. According to the dreaded Wookieepedia, ROTJ is 23 years after ROTS. Anakin would’ve technically been 45 in ROTJ. Maybe if Anakin had been older in the prequels…I could ignore that, but I still don’t really buy Sebastian Shaw being under that mask. It’s a minor nitpick though. I feel Obi Wan and Anakin’s relationship would’ve been better if Anakin would’ve been closer to Obi Wan’s age in Episode 1. Probably the age difference between Han and Luke. Han was old enough to call Luke “Kid” but close enough in age to have been buddies.

I’m not making much of a point. Just bitching to the wind.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

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 (Edited)

Some very good ideas here.

YodaFan67 said:

He is also frustrated by the incompetence and idiocy of the army-men under his command. One time, after they lose a battle they should have won, he starts to force-choke a lieutenant in anger. Obi-wan is alarmed by this and makes Anakin stop. Anakin apologizes, but he’s still angry.

The only thing I might want to clarify, or—if this isn’t what you meant originally—change slightly; is that Anakin doesn’t force-choke any Clones. He only force-chokes an incompetent Republic lieutenant (not a clone lieutenant), and partly because their poor tactics led to an overwhelming loss of Clones. I like the angle that Anakin, and by extension, Vader; is loyal to and respects his soldiers.

i’m a girl she/her

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Jeebus said:
The only thing I might want to clarify, or—if this isn’t what you meant originally—change slightly; is that Anakin doesn’t force-choke any Clones. He only force-chokes an incompetent Republic lieutenant (not a clone lieutenant), and partly because their poor tactics led to an overwhelming loss of Clones. I like the angle that Anakin, and by extension, Vader; is loyal to and respects his soldiers.

Certainly.
Vader is cold and imposing, but he has a certain dignity. Sort of like how the PT tried to portray Count Dooku.

Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? none holds them up except Allah. Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe. – Quran (16:79)

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NeverarGreat said:

We are supposed to believe that Obi-wan ages from 35 to 75 in the span of 19 years.

I just realized that this is evidence that the OB-1 theory was right all along!

Of course, extrapolating that back in time, it would mean that OB-1 was just being cloned in Episode 1.

Hmm, I just got a really terrible but batshit crazy idea for the Kenobi standalone movie.

Story Mode activated!

Palpatine was on the lookout for new apprentices after Maul bit it, but since he didn’t know if he could turn Anakin, he would also clone the Jedi who defeated his previous apprentice as a backup plan. So he put in the order for one Force Sensitive at the time he began the clone army, and trained this clone in secret, feeding him not only information about the real Obi-wan’s life, but about the forbidden Jedi teachings of Qui-gon mixed with subtle teachings of the Sith. By the time of ROTS, Anakin had become Palpatine’s favored pupil and so the clone escaped the cloning facility and struck out on his own. Lacking any identity but the one he had learned in captivity, he became obsessed with Obi-wan’s legacy. He tracked down Obi-wan on Tatooine and killed him, taking his place as the guardian of Luke.

The rest of the story you know. OB-1 doesn’t recognize the R2 or C-3PO, suggests a history between Anakin and Owen that didn’t exist, uses the suspicious language of an alter ego ‘betraying and murdering’ an original person, disregards the Jedi doctrines to train a teenager, praises the accuracy of Stormtroopers (since the training facility of the clones was all he knew), and understands the Geonosian Death Star layout from a glance. After his death, he continues to misremember basic facts about his relationship with Anakin and Yoda.

This brings us to the matter of immortality. It is practically a prerequisite that a Jedi gaining immortality takes his body with him into the Force, and this is presumably the basis of a Force Ghost. It could be argued that Anakin’s biological body dematerialized upon death, and only his extensive robotic parts remained (it could be that much of his upper body was eventually replaced with mechanical parts). This means that Qui-gon was unable to become a Force Ghost, and presumably didn’t achieve immortality at the time of his death. However, Obi-wan’s clone has learned from Qui-gon, Plagueis, and Palpatine. His synthesis of Sith and Jedi knowledge has allowed him to summon Qui-gon from the netherworld of the Force, and communes with him to complete the path to immortality.

So the story is that a clone of Obi-wan trained by Palpatine gets loose after the Clone Wars and stakes out Tatooine in search of his progenitor. He learns how Obi Prime has abandoned his legacy and decided not to train Luke because of his past failure. The clone feels like he can and must take on this responsibility for the sake of the galaxy, for he is wiser in the ways of the Force than Prime. Disguised as a Sand Person, he follows Obi Prime and learns his ways as Obi Prime acts as a Star Wars Yojimbo. Finally he makes himself known, and in a duel he kills Obi Prime and takes his place.

The End.

That was fun 😃

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
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Tatooine just causes people to age horribly.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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I’m not sure if this could be accomplished, but I had an idea that Padme and the Jedi would actually be at opposite ends of the political spectrum throughout the prequels, (probably with Amidala supporting palpatine), and that a big twist mid-episode III would be that mace windu was working with dooku to assasinate Padmé throughout the movies.

This would give Anakin much better motivation for switching sides IMO, and be a surprising twist that the prequels sorely lacked.

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Willrow-Hood said:

I’m not sure if this could be accomplished, but I had an idea that Padme and the Jedi would actually be at opposite ends of the political spectrum throughout the prequels, (probably with Amidala supporting palpatine), and that a big twist mid-episode III would be that mace windu was working with dooku to assasinate Padmé throughout the movies.

This would give Anakin much better motivation for switching sides IMO, and be a surprising twist that the prequels sorely lacked.

Cool idea for Padme to be a Palpatine supporter. It would be an interesting challenge to make the audience like her as a character; and look past the fact that she supported the villain, and ultimately helped bring about the Empire.

Could you elaborate on your idea for the Windu twist?

i’m a girl she/her

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The idea is that Windu was behind the Padmw assasination attempts, secretly. While Padme is all about CIS vs Republic, Windu is more Jedi vs the world.

I feel like this concept would work well with the idea of Dooku being a more gray villain, (wild idea here) and maybe the scene from AOTC where Dooku tells Kenobi that a sith has infiltrated the Republic could be altered to reveal Mace Windus dirty secret to Anakin (impossible, I know). In fact, if Kenobi knew and didn’t want to address it with the council, it could provide friction between the two.

This would give Anakin great conflict: is the battle Jedi vs Sith, or Republic vs Sepratists. He had his wife and mentor on one side, and his distrust of the Jedi makes him fight for peace more than anything.

Side note: his dream sequence could be the Jedi killing padme with parallels to how the Tuskens killed Shimi in some way (Same music?).

I have a couple other ideas for this, so if you’re interested let me know.

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I still think it makes no narrative sense that Anakin and Owen start the story on Tatooine.
I thought he was a newly married spice trucker who bumps into Obi-Wan during one of his twice Knightly adventures and ends up being drawn away from his family by the lure of the Force.
His wife (who isn’t the queen of Space Venice) is already pregnant and when the Jedi are forced to scatter Owen takes his family to the crappiest place imaginable for protection from Darth Vader. Skywalker would be a common name like Jones or Felkunstoniasnitz.
The prequels are hard work to fix. I applaud people for trying so hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Hi,

I’m new on this forum, sorry for my english’s abilities ( I’m french ).
The clone wars has already begun. The Mandalorians warriors fight the Republic side composed by Jedi and volunteers.( Like rebel forces)
Prequel trilogy should have started with Anakin and Owen caught by the Mandalorians before the beginning of the first movie. There were slaves in a big mining facility( like the legend of Orin). When the Jedi knights free Anakin and Owen, Anakin choose to fight on the republic’side as a pilot,and Owen choose to go back to Tatooine.

It’s simple , “caracter-driven-story” and this idea makes a direct link with the Old Ben’s Backstory in AHN.

For an fan-edit it’s impossible to make this idea…of course. But for a comic-book project, why not?? 😉

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JulioTanaka said:

Hi,

I’m new on this forum, sorry for my english’s abilities ( I’m french ).

Don’t worry: people around here are nice and will never vehemently point out and/or laugh at a few spelling mistakes…

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MalàStrana said:

JulioTanaka said:

Hi,

I’m new on this forum, sorry for my english’s abilities ( I’m french ).

Don’t worry: people around here are nice and will never vehemently point out and/or laugh at a few spelling mistakes…

Well ! Bon si vous êtes “nice” je continue en français dans ce cas…frog’s laugh

Rewriting MODE :

So…know how Palpatine is elected, we don’t care ,no ?
I think that Lucas’PT are too many features. At the beginning, Palpatine is already elected President and has got the emmergency power. But like ANH , it’s just mentioned by the characters.For exemple Bail Organa can be the character which make a “bridge” between characters’story and political situation.

With Organa , we will discovers that Palpy was elected by the traders barons ( yes ! traders are on republic’s side) worried by the war and…because they think take over the Senate with Palpatine as a “weak” president, Like Von Papen and Hitler during the rise of the nazi era.

In my story , it will be just a quote…like Tarkin with the “emperor disolu”… etc !

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Bingowings said:

I still think it makes no narrative sense that Anakin and Owen start the story on Tatooine.
I thought he was a newly married spice trucker who bumps into Obi-Wan during one of his twice Knightly adventures and ends up being drawn away from his family by the lure of the Force.
His wife (who isn’t the queen of Space Venice) is already pregnant and when the Jedi are forced to scatter Owen takes his family to the crappiest place imaginable for protection from Darth Vader. Skywalker would be a common name like Jones or Felkunstoniasnitz.
The prequels are hard work to fix. I applaud people for trying so hard.

I love your face, Bingo!

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Edezio Enk’or Valorum said:

The idea of the Duel taking place on Vaders Castle and using Rogue One as a source for scenarios is one that I like a lot, but I would rather preffer a place more in the outside of the world than the castle, for example, some shots around 0:50 on the next video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O84zsjLvOfk

More like mountains, rocks and that stuff, less of a big show for VFX and the Mustafar facility, Vaders Castle would be awesome tho, we could go even further and make it like an Anakin base where he is and stuff, but for the Duel, I would preffer the land rather than a building

These scenes are great! what an improvement! I’d love to see someone recreate an updated version like this

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I had a dream last night that I was watching an editted ROTS where the editor had removed all hooks leading to the OT. So no Darth Vader transformation, no Luke birth, no Jedi Massacre etc.

The film opened with Obi-Wan hunting for grevious, the Utapau battle, then concluded with Palpatine’s resuce, and Anakin joining the Jedi Council.

I wonder if this could this ever work?

Essentially it might look like a PT that gives as much an ambiguous gap between the PT-OT as the new films do since the OT (ie no obvious set up or bridge).

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ben_danger said:

I had a dream last night that I was watching an editted ROTS where the editor had removed all hooks leading to the OT. So no Darth Vader transformation, no Luke birth, no Jedi Massacre etc.

The film opened with Obi-Wan hunting for grevious, the Utapau battle, then concluded with Palpatine’s resuce, and Anakin joining the Jedi Council.

I wonder if this could this ever work?

Essentially it might look like a PT that gives as much an ambiguous gap between the PT-OT as the new films do since the OT (ie no obvious set up or bridge).

Huh. I’d watch it, for sure.

I think one mistake that many prequels make is they just “show” backstory events that the original film talked about. For example, I’d bet money that the Han Solo movie has him winning the Falcon in Sabaac.

But that’s boring! If we didn’t need to see it in the original film (via flashback, or whatever), we don’t need to see it in another film!

Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? none holds them up except Allah. Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe. – Quran (16:79)

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What exactly does Yoda do in the prequels? I’ve been meaning to bring this up, somewhere on this forum, but maybe we could cut Yoda out entirely.

Death of the Author

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SparkySywer said:

What exactly does Yoda do in the prequels? I’ve been meaning to bring this up, somewhere on this forum, but maybe we could cut Yoda out entirely.

To a dark place this line of thought will carry us. Great care we must take, or remove all characters from the prequels, we will.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
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My honest opinion, Yoda isn’t really Yoda in the prequels. He just seemed like a caricature. “He’s short, green, and talks funny”…well yeah they got that right…but his personality is almost non-existent. He takes on the same air that all Jedi take in the prequels. Stoic, unfeeling, boring, and at times…kind of an asshole. Yoda and Obi Wan seemed so warm in the OT, but you don’t see that in the prequels.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

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^ Agreed! Yoda was just another boring asshole in the PT. And even if he did act like Yoda, I still think it’s a mistake to actually meet him until ESB.

Also, why were the Jedi all on a planet covered in technology? I’d always imagined that they gathered somewhere peaceful, surrounded by nature. In ESB, Yoda says something about the force flowing from living things. Seems like that’s why he was in the swamp. But on the city planet, there’s no nature or quiet peace.
(I also hate the building designs. Inside and out. Bluh.)

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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ray_afraid said:

^ Agreed! Yoda was just another boring asshole in the PT. And even if he did act like Yoda, I still think it’s a mistake to actually meet him until ESB.

Also, why were the Jedi all on a planet covered in technology? I’d always imagined that they gathered somewhere peaceful, surrounded by nature. In ESB, Yoda says something about the force flowing from living things. Seems like that’s why he was in the swamp. But on the city planet, there’s no nature or quiet peace.
(I also hate the building designs. Inside and out. Bluh.)

That’s actually answerable: because the Jedi had become too entrenched in the power structures of the Republic and lost their way, philosophically speaking.