Sign In

The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 259

Author
Time
 (Edited)

nah, Sith should use the "warm" side of the light spectrum: yellow, orange and red - Jedi the "cool" one: blue, green and maybe white ...

Anakin as Vader should have used a red blade.

Yoda, if he is to be in the prequels, must be the master who doesn't use a lightsaber and isn't "superfrog" - only his defensive style is needed to show his superior skills!

hm, Dooku is complicated, it depends what one wants to do with the character, so he is very open for all things ...

Palpatine's fight with Windu wasn't all that bad - it was the silly jumping around, like Yoda, that ruined his style ;-P

Author
Time

so I watched a docu about cloning and I got a little idea:

there needs to be some conflict as to why (Re)public is hostile or indifferent towards the Jedi - and not us seeing the Order as out of contact with reality - so in the docu they said today there is only one sample needed to clone (the process itself is still complicated and not 100%) - why not spill the whol "midichlorians" (which most aren't fond of) and keep the twist that Qui-Gon (or Dooku) forseeing a war prepaired Jedi clones (Ani could be one chosen donator - another reason why he could be brought to Corscant) - as for the "Grand Army of the Republic", it rings wrong to my ears, that they would use some shady "bounty hunter" - in my context he should be A) a "simple farmer" (with the best genetic traits) or B) an elite mercenary (chosen from a list)

it did sound very random (ok Dooku/Sidious searched for a ideal type, but that was offscreen ...)

ending in a real "Clone War" - Jedi (or Sith) against Republic Troopers (before there could he Droids or both sides could clone "best" fighters) - making a unique outfit (armour, ships) more important, or one could get lost in the massive battles ;-)

Author
Time

hm, depends on what one wants to accomplish and how the edit should flow ...

if one took flashbacks or timelaps into account, then Qui-Gon = Dooku (with some tweaking) and the whole "who ordered, why clones, what?" problem could be solved to an extend - only the rest needs to fit the plot

Author
Time

Personally I would divorce the connection between Dooku and the clones.

The mystery elements of what passes as a plot in AOTC make no sense but they make less sense when the Jedi use the clones despite the obvious connection between the leader of the Separatists, his bodyguard and the Clones.

I'd make the hidden planet Geonosis, have Dooku tide to the droid armies and have the clones already made as a logical if ethically dubious response to the actions of the Separatists.

That way Palpatine is still behind both but it's not so bleedin obvious it makes the Jedi look like idiots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

Author
Time

ok, I wanted to try A connection that coul tie up the loopholes and bridges on how, what we would get in a "Clone War"

so my take on things, was that (some) Jedi search for suited candidates, that have a decent force-sensibility and maybe other traits that are beneficial for cloning ...

on the other hand, this could also work as the "bad guys" looking for their "champion/s" to get their army started

just needs to give the impression, that the clones didn't come out of tjhe blue sky and nobody really cares why and how "ordered" them - it was a very dumb thing, even in times of conflict, to use a "weapon", that is of uncertain origin and not tested (as proof: "Order 66")

as for how story could evolve, I made some suggestions in the other threads, but I prefer to have a "droids/clones" then "clones/clones" war or "clones/clones" from the start - but if one side changes it makes more sense, as for why robots are not so good looked at in the OT (except them being still "slaves")

Jedi could start a "clone army" because of the returning threat of a Sith Empire - and if one states in the E1-crawl or "prologe", that before the Jedi had a war against Mandalorians or Sith / Dark Jedi, it could be reasoned, why they are so few in numbers (being a BIG galaxy) - back then also clones could have been used (but to a "better" outcome), meaning this is the "last" Clone War (in a series of many)

after this the technology is banned or simply destroyed, because imperial technicians prefer to build "Battle Moons" and not "small armies" ;-)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Okay, this would take a huge amount of work, but I think it is almost possible...

In AotC, Obi-Wan talks to Mace and Yoda about Anakin not being ready. Most edits replace this with the superior Obi-Wan/Mace deleted scene. I suggest we got a bit further.

What if Mace was replaced in this scene with a Force Ghost of Qui-Gonn. You'd have to find a Liam Niesen lookalike and someone who sounds like him (luckily, you wouldn't need both to be the same person). This sets up a precedence for Force Ghosts in the OT (without an awkward RotS explanation), and makes the living council seem less ignorant - Yoda and Mace shouldn't have sent Anakin on the mission, knowing of his attachments. Qui-Gonn, however, has a determined faith that blinds him a bit and thus adds motivation and depth to the dialogue in the scene. Of course it would have to be edited down so it seems Obi-Wan is talking to Qui-Gonn, but I really think it could work.

Scene Dialogue (Edits in Caps/Strikeouts)

Obi: It appears someone doesn't want us to know about this Kamino system.

Mace/QG: Which means there's something happening on that system we should know about.

Obi: Master, do you think a Jedi could have erased those files?

Mace/QG: I hope not. This disturbance in the force is making it hard to get a sense of things.

Obi: I'm concerned for my padawan ANAKIN. He is not ready to be on his own.

Mace/QG: If the prophecy is true, he is the one who will bring balance to the force.

Obi: But he still has much to learn. His skills have made him, well, arrogant. I realize now what you and master Yoda knew from the beginning, the boy was too old to start his training. Master, we should not have been given this assignment. I fear Anakin will not be able to protect the Senator. 

Mace/QG: Why?

Obi: He has an emotional connection with her. It's been there since he was a boy. Now he's... confused, distracted. (this would be hard to change since it is a continuous shot.)

Mace/QG: Obi-Wan, you must have faith that he will choose the right path.

Obi: Yes, Master.

QG: MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU.

Preferred Saga:
PT: Hal9000
4/5: Adywan
6: NSP
7/8: Hal9000

Author
Time

I think removing the contrived explanation that force ghosts are a new thing is a must in any edit. I can only assume that Lucas felt he had to explain it because he didn't spell out why Qui Gon left a body behind rather than disappear in the way established in the OT. Just like the force in general it didn't need explaining, yet he tried explaining that as well via Midichlorians. Urgh.

Your idea lends itself really well to making it an established fact that Jedi can do this, and always have.

The force glow effect can hide a lot (much like Adywan's new Emperor Hologram), so it MIGHT even be possible to utilize a shot of Qui Gon, standing relatively still, and manipulate the mouth. Then you can cobble together some dialogue from TPM, The Clone Wars series (which luckily already has the echoey modulation), and Liam Neeson's other body of work.

For me, it would have to be a slightly more mystical setting than a landing pad though ;)

One potential issue is that this deleted scene was only included on the DVD, not the Blu-Ray so resolution might be an issue.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

The main problem of the PT was, that it left many things to the "EU", so keypoints were explained there instead in the movies ...

So the main goal should be:

A) remove things that are not explained onscreen and don't need to be shown either

B) try to make unexplained things, like "force ghosts" or "Sith" (or any other interesting keyfeature) more accessable

Lucas did himself and us in general a bad service in introducing concepts like "midichlorians" (I don't have a problem with that), but not using it further to explain why NO Jedi/Sith are cloned (THAT would have been the MAIN reason WHY, imho!) - the worst "explanation" was the "rule of two"...

Author
Time

brash_stryker said:

For me, it would have to be a slightly more mystical setting than a landing pad though ;)

One potential issue is that this deleted scene was only included on the DVD, not the Blu-Ray so resolution might be an issue.

I agree on the landing pad thing - sadly, it's the only scene I see that really working for... Though, having it in such a commonplace setting goes to show that it is a normal Jedi occurrence.

I'd almost think the fact that it's a DVD scene would make it lend itself  to the change easier. Make the changes at DVD resolution, then upconvert the whole sequence - it might make the addition blend better, despite standing out some among HD footage (1080p edits will struggle far more with this, but with Revisited at 720p it shouldn't be too bad to include DVD-sourced footage)

Preferred Saga:
PT: Hal9000
4/5: Adywan
6: NSP
7/8: Hal9000

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I'm assuming that with something like Revisited or something as radical, the editor would be rotoing Obi out from the background anyway and inserting a new one,  so I didn't mean the scene was unsuitable - only that it would have to be altered :)

I have no idea if such a manipulation of Qui Gon would even be possible anyway. You'd have to have Liam Neeson saying the words for at least some of it. You could probably get away with a lot via cutaways and by having him more like Obi's ghost on HOTH rather than his walking around clear as day ROTJ version. Maybe have him in a misty, foggy setting like Dagobah.

The other alternative is to make Qui Gon a disembodied voice instead. Obi spoke to Luke in this way before. The key is to have more of the film with Obi wan, and even if Obi himself isn't actually speaking any more than before, scenes with him consulting his dead mentor help to push Obi to the foreground - more like the main character he should be than supporting cast to Anakin.

Author
Time

Hello.

I new on this forum, but I've been watching it for quite a long time. Sorry for my mistakes, I'm not English native speaker - please, be lenient.

So first, I should point that in my opinion none of the fan editors could make the prequels good. They're beyond saving and they can only be made more watchable. The only salvation for the prequel idea would be if LFL/Disney would give a permission to make a prequel fan-films.

All right, enough with the introduction, back to the topic. So what about making prequels watchable? I really loved the idea of making the missing planet Geonosis, Qui-Gon Force ghost. Also redoing few characters and redubbing them could give more plot details to the audience and what the heck is going on in the movie.

The big problems with the prequels, especially in Attack of the Clones, are characters, plot and the villains. So my point would be to stick to the idea "make Anakin a bigger part of a larger story", Obi-Wan as the protagonist of the prequels, better plot and the villain for the whole trilogy.

To begin with, Anakin should be the same kind of character like Han Solo, we meet him in about half of the movie and he's like a secondary main character. He should be played as a good guy in Ep.I, good friend and a cunning warrior in Ep.II (maybe with some hints to his evil side - I'll get to that later) and in Ep.III he should be put in a situation, in which he has to choose between loyalty to his best friend Obi-Wan and securing the peace in the Republic/Empire.

Now, the plot. It should be made simple - no political boredom in the Senate. Let those scenes be played like in original Star Wars (conference room on Death Star, for example). Why the Federation couldn't be replaced with some opposite to the Republic but smaller galactic organisation that wants to conquer Alderaan (yes, Alderaan, not Naboo - if you're looking for explanation on that watch "What if Ep.I were good" by Belated Media). The "Federation" would be manipulated, but not brainless, like the original, by Lord Maul/Darth Vader (I'll also get to that later). Maul should be like Vader in Ep.IV - he seems to be the only evil force user, but surprise - he's got a master, that's more powerful than him! The story could play like in the original Ep.I - we get from Alderaan/Naboo to the Tatooine, next to the Coruscant and back to the first planet. On Coruscant Padme should visit senator Bail Organa (that would need changing the actor or finding the Jimmy Smits lookalike). Then Obi-Wan Kenobi would organise the whole "damn fool idealistic crusade" to retake Alderaan. There he would loose his friend Qui-Gon, because of Kenobi's recklessness. Also, there was a blokade surrounding the Alderaan/Naboo. Why Anakin couldn't prove himself as a pilot by passing by it (Star Wars: Obsession comic books).

The second film should open like the Bond movies do - with some kind of a fun adventure of Anakin and Obi-Wan, that somehow ties with the main plot, which wouldn't be like several different boxes of puzzles dumped on a floor. The clones would be the bad guys and the Republic Stormtroopers would be normal citizens pushed into the war. Dooku should be made a red-herring villain. The audience would think that he's the bad guy, but I see him as many others on this forum as a rogue Jedi, that sees the decay of the Republic, corruption and Sith control in the Senate. and here's the first part of ROTS in the AOTC - the movie ends with Dooku kidnapping the Chancellor and the two Jedi Knights are rushing to help him, then Anakin goes to far and kills Dooku. The movie might end with Anakin actually leaving Kenobi in the duel place with Dooku and Skywalker choosing to stay with Palpatine. OK, enough with those plot ideas, maybe one day I'll right it down.

Concerning Maul. He would be the first Obi-Wan's apprentice. But Obi-Wan was a little too eager to train him and unexperienced, so Maul turns to the dark side. Then he finds Palpatine and becomes his apprentice.

In the end of Ep.I Maul woudn't be cut in half, but he'll run or fall out of the window - whatever. In Ep.II he's like a shadow, that follows the protagonists, hires the Fett and makes the galactic war come true. Maul/Vader would be a human/near-human species. He's dark side turn would change his look (tattoos). Obi-Wan won't recognize him in Ep.I, and in Ep.II, there would be a reveal of him being the long lost Kenobi's apprentice (mirrors the situation in Ep.V). In Ep.III Obi-Wan would look for him, trying to capture or redeem him (Maul would take place of Grievous).

Now, the triangle Maul/Vader/Anakin. Have you seen the Lost TV Series? The relation between Anakin and Vader would be like Locke's father and Sawyer. Anakin would kill him in Ep.III and take his name. Obi-Wan would track down Maul/Vader to Mustafar, then he'll spill the beans about Palpatine being a Sith Lord, Anakin wounds Maul, next is the duel Obi vs Ani, Obi-Wan wins, and the finale of the Mustafar fight - Maul wants revenge and floods the area, where lies Anakin, with some kind of chemicals (it seems logical, more than lava. The chemicals would give him a lung cancer, hence heavy breathing). Obi-Wan rushes to Maul and pushes him into the toxic river, which he unleashed. Anakin and Maul are taken with those chemicals, and we have a scene like in '89 Batman - the hand comes from the pool and we keep the surprise in TESB. Maybe there could be a scene, where Tarkin finds badly burned body on Mustafar and puts it in the armor. Oh, and by the way, as the final battle in Ep.III I see the battle in the Jedi Temple and in the same time there's a duel between Samuel J. Windu and Palpy - later Vader arrived from the battle and kills Jules L. Jackson.

These are my ideas for the prequels radical edits. They're not quite thought out as a whole story, if I find time I'll rewrite and post it.

I hope you'll find some interesting ideas in my post.

Author
Time

Welcome Magnus! You share my opinions on the prequels exactly. It can be quite disheartening confronting the fact these films are just inherently flawed on a basic level and unfixable without major refilming. It can drive you a little crazy constantly coming up with ideas of what could have been, but these types of threads are in no way feeding our crazy delusions. No, not at all! *cackle*

Good to have you aboard! :D

Author
Time

So. Radical Idea.

Anakin has the nasty accident which puts him in the suit while he is a nice guy.

Major Storyline changes would obviously be needed, but it could suggest that 'Darth Vader' put him in there. It might even happen off screen while we are following Obi-wan. It might also require a whole new PT to work.

Author
Time

I had an idea for phantom menace that I haven't seen done yet exactly the way I was thinking.  It isn't really very radical it's just an omision.  I've seen edits that cut out part of these ideas but not completely,  and in my opinion it only works if the idea is totally there or totally removed.

The whole Jar-Jar being banished and then the gungans fighting with the naboo alliance thing.  What if we skip the whole underwater gungan city thing.  Remove the whole gungan and naboo not getting along idea.  Have it play it so that jar jar is tagging along because qui gon saved his life as he says.  But no mention of jar jar being on bad terms with other gungans.  Then later have the queen ask jar jar for his help, but not show the details of her asking what she needs him to do, then later (hopefully soon as having alot of time pass will make this seem unclear) you see the gungan army gathering.

I think this would work because without Jar Jar being on bad terms with the other gungans and without the gungans having animosity with the naboo, there is no longer any need to have a dramatic "coming together" and accepting of both jar jar and the naboo.  If everything is already assumed to be fine with them, it's believable that Jar is able to gather the gungans all off camera.  

I've seen edits that do part of this.  But in my opinion only doing half of that makes it more confusing.  I think the best way to handle it is to skip all the way over the whole subplot and just have it be assumed that jar jar gathers the gungans off camera.

It may seem vague, but other movies have done things similar without being questioned.

Author
Time

Possessed said:

I had an idea for phantom menace that I haven't seen done yet exactly the way I was thinking.  It isn't really very radical it's just an omision.  I've seen edits that cut out part of these ideas but not completely,  and in my opinion it only works if the idea is totally there or totally removed.

The whole Jar-Jar being banished and then the gungans fighting with the naboo alliance thing.  What if we skip the whole underwater gungan city thing.  Remove the whole gungan and naboo not getting along idea.  Have it play it so that jar jar is tagging along because qui gon saved his life as he says.  But no mention of jar jar being on bad terms with other gungans.  Then later have the queen ask jar jar for his help, but not show the details of her asking what she needs him to do, then later (hopefully soon as having alot of time pass will make this seem unclear) you see the gungan army gathering.

I think this would work because without Jar Jar being on bad terms with the other gungans and without the gungans having animosity with the naboo, there is no longer any need to have a dramatic "coming together" and accepting of both jar jar and the naboo.  If everything is already assumed to be fine with them, it's believable that Jar is able to gather the gungans all off camera.  

I've seen edits that do part of this.  But in my opinion only doing half of that makes it more confusing.  I think the best way to handle it is to skip all the way over the whole subplot and just have it be assumed that jar jar gathers the gungans off camera.

It may seem vague, but other movies have done things similar without being questioned.

 From experience I can tell you (for me anyway) becomes Jar-Jar in the battle. His antics in the battle are horrifying. And yes, we could cut his portions out, but he's in it so much, you wouldn't have a whole lot of footage left.

The idea is cool though, and honestly how George should have done it.

 

 

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Not sure if anyone tried this, but I had the idea when watching the movie "The Escapist" ...

ok, what if Episode 1 starts with a prologue like Lord of the Rings, giving us the needed background about Jedi vs Sith (could be a force ghost talking or a recording ala Dune => Holocron) and the rest that leads to the first scene of the story.

Then we have the main plot with Obi-Wan as the protagonist, this whole PT will be shown through the eyes of the Jedi Knight - his point of view(!), making his statements "true" ...

PT will be mainly "The Clone Wars" - ending with birth of "The Empire" - 15/20 year break (during the gap rebellion starts) - leading up to ANH.

ANH and ESB run as we know it, only minor corrections needed (see Adywan's improvements) ...

THEN there comes ROTJ - it opens with a recap / "flashback" of what REALLY happened in the years before aka "The Clone Wars", now with knowledge of Vader being Anakin Skywalker and Luke's father ...

After this we continue with the normal "timeline" (Luke saves Han in "Rambo style" - for lack of better description - no stupid plans that go wrong!) - audience is not sure if he is Jedi or Sith (after Vader's revelation ...) - Rebels assemble at Sullust to strike their last desperate attack: Corruscant! (maybe they got hands on a "special weapon" - needs more thought, but 140% better than DSv2)

Leia's not Luke's sister - she and Han still hook up - Luke leaves into sunset after he defeated the Emperor (with the help of his father), maybe to find the "other" Skywalker.

yeah, NO Ewoks - oh boy, they were so silly ;-)

this solves many problems and gives opportunity to add more movies, if not ST contradicts events from PT ...

Author
Time

SO

If in AOTC, the clones are revealed from the beginning of the film, like its no surprise - the republic is readying for war. It might even be suggested that clones are just the norm in this circumstance (not a new idea at all!)

What happens when Obi-Wan finds out that the clone template is a bounty hunter under the employment of the big bad enemy? - is that not a BETTER twist?

Author
Time

ben_danger said:

SO

If in AOTC, the clones are revealed from the beginning of the film, like its no surprise - the republic is readying for war. It might even be suggested that clones are just the norm in this circumstance (not a new idea at all!)

What happens when Obi-Wan finds out that the clone template is a bounty hunter under the employment of the big bad enemy? - is that not a BETTER twist?

In my opinion it's the same silly twist.

If the template is the bodyguard of the enemy leader it's obviously a trap so you don't use the army.

It would a better twist of someone of significance (for one example the Sith Lord killed in the first film) was revealed to be the template to us but not to the Jedi.

That way we get let in on a secret and the Jedi aren't made out to be insanely stupid and marching gleefully to destruction with their own assassins by their side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

Author
Time
 (Edited)

it was very silly of the Jedi to use an army of cloned bounty hunters(!), not asking more questions and just going with Palpatines plan to rule the galaxy ...

yeah, one would NOT risk to use a weapon, that an enemy has built, you couldn't be 100% sure, if it isn't a "trojan horse" ;-)

too bad it was never explained (onscreen!) why the Jedi or Sith do not clone themselves and wage war over the galaxy - to make a copy of an able warrior is one thing, but to copy a being with force powers would be more effective ?!

hm, what if the Senate has this "Clone project" from the last Mandalorian conflict (when the situation was similar) and they use one of their "old foes" as a template? maybe make one a rogue (Fett?) or another of them a tool for Palpatine to assassinate his political enemies, hiding this fact behind the "Federation" movement ...

Author
Time

Bingowings said:


If the template is the bodyguard of the enemy leader it's obviously a trap so you don't use the army.

It might make more sense if the army is already an established entity - so if AOTC had an opening with say - the geonosis arena, it could be suggested they have been in use for years.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

ben_danger said:

Bingowings said:


If the template is the bodyguard of the enemy leader it's obviously a trap so you don't use the army.

It might make more sense if the army is already an established entity - so if AOTC had an opening with say - the geonosis arena, it could be suggested they have been in use for years.

Once again in my view it just makes the whole mechanism of the Army something the Jedi would want nothing to do with (even if they were established before the discovery).

You could have the technology used to make a new clone army after the template was isolated and original batch 'retired', that would be a bit like Operation Paperclip using former enemy scientists to build missiles (and would suggest more than one Clone War) but to have the Jedi fight along side such an obvious trap once it's uncovered is too much a colossus of stupid. It would be like George VI getting a doomsday bomb shaped present from Adolf Hitler, with a label that read "Zis Vill Cure Your Schtutter" and unwrapping it before all the allied leaders.

How could these guys keep the peace for a thousand generations while being so incompetent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

Author
Time

Actually yes that makes an excellent point. Following that presumption, the only satisfactory conclusion of AOTC would be Obi-wan breaking the story and having the Cloning shut down. Hmmm.

Now if only they learnt the Jango thing in EpIII as the Jedi were getting gunned down?

Author
Time

ben_danger said:

the only satisfactory conclusion of AOTC would be Obi-wan breaking the story and having the Cloning shut down.

Leading the Republic to use normal human soldiers instead, hence the Stormtroopers aren't clones in the OT.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer