The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 257

Cripes...helloo :-D

Nice to see you back again.

Well, it circles down to Anakin being "a good man and a friend" - we need that in at least one whole movie, it is rather frustrating only to see Ani to be a warped picture of Luke ...

@shanep

one way is to bring the "Vader" into play, and create a disruption within the Jedi order - the "lost 20" story is a nice vehicle to get this through ;-)

the combination of Qui-Gon & Dooku might also work, if we have him be a mentor friend of Obi-Wan and a forshadowing of what could happend to his own pupil ...

can't remember if it was proposed here, but I think if we keep Anakin/Vader as just one person, a intersting possibilty could be that through the horrors of war, he spilt personality, and now the dark shadow is hunting and trying to kill all that is dear to Anakin (read this like a Jekyll/Hyde plot)

another point is how the "dark side" corrupts  a Jedi, the "saving loved ones" isn't working for "Sith" - it should be more about personal power!

I actually have mentioned the idea before that Anakin could be corrupted already before Episode III, and we only find out at the end.  References could be made in the opening crawl to a secret agent assassinating key Separatist leaders, drop references here and there, etc.  Perhaps we could even see Anakin's slaughter of the leadership on Mustafar, but keep his face shrouded till we see the infamous "Sith eyes" shot.  Only then do we realize that the secret agent has been Anakin all along.  Perhaps some shots in Episode II could be edited to allude to him secretly signing up with Palpatine, though I'm not sure if he'd be signing up with a Sith Lord or simply with the Chancellor as a secret agent.  In any case, I haven't thought hard enough about this to consider the plausibility and what shots to use, but it's idea I thought I should throw out there again.

I like the idea that the turn to the Dark Side is not seen as a negative initially. Uncle Palpatine could be seen as the edgy radical as oppose to evil overlord, who achieves his goals by any means as oppose to doing the boring grown up thing.

The realisation that things have gone too far might be the point where we discover Obi-Wan isn't dead after his assassination or when Windu confronts Palpatine (You're in too far to turn back now boy!)

"Episode III - The Secret Apprentice" perhaps?

Not sure if we as viewers need to see the fall and turn of Anakin - maybe the focus would be better on other characters ?

it would be interesting to show more of the duality of Anakin and Obi-Wan ... the whole love affair doesn't really pay off :-/

on another note, I think the revelation of Palpatine/"Sidious" should only be in Episode III, let Dooku or Maul be the main "villain" of the other movies ...

I also thought about the "Boba Fett / Bounty Hunter" discussion from the ESB:R thread - it would be good the wipe either the name complete or just leave "Jango" (as a reference to spaghetti western), and name him only "bounty hunter" in the OT!

I would like to see a bad*** scene of Anakin showcasing his supreme mastery of the Force performing feats of incredible strength and finesse the likes of which the "prophecy" and the "one" should be capable of. I never saw that in the films. I did see it in the Clone Wars cartoon series, the original. Then a relatively short period after have him not necessarily turn to the dark side because of grief or hate so much as intellectually he finds it superior, as well as grief and hate. A dark Jedi, not necessarily a Sith. Then he is grossly disfigured and pledges allegiance to the Sith as a rash reaction sealing his fate. End scene.

Lowbacca said:

I would like to see a bad*** scene of Anakin showcasing his supreme mastery of the Force performing feats of incredible strength and finesse the likes of which the "prophecy" and the "one" should be capable of. I never saw that in the films. I did see it in the Clone Wars cartoon series, the original. Then a relatively short period after have him not necessarily turn to the dark side because of grief or hate so much as intellectually he finds it superior, as well as grief and hate. A dark Jedi, not necessarily a Sith. Then he is grossly disfigured and pledges allegiance to the Sith as a rash reaction sealing his fate. End scene.

 What, something wrong with Anakin just sitting and deciding to become dark jedi? Lucas knows what he's talking about. ;)

It all depends if you want to keep the "transformation" and "throw away" the revelation in Empire (and making Obi-Wan a liar)

or you try to cover up Anakins turn and shroud his fall with other "bad stuff" (or characters), who could end up be his "agents", until he "crashes and burns" ...

I think if we got a longer journey with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, that would have been also a deeper punch, if Qui-Gon told OB1, what Dooku did in Episode 2 - or if Qui-Gon "turned" and we think "WTF?! - shouldn't Anakin be the Dark Lord ?"

Lucas had many chances to do a good coherent story with characters that we like and who are important, but what we got is just a bunch of "all and nothing" ...

maybe some things can be "fixed" ;-)

The saga is full of dualities and double meanings. Kenobi tells Luke that "Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force. he was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil."

Well, if Anakin assumes the namesake of Vader then he would become Darth Vader. This would also fit into the certain point of view talk Kenobi gives to Luke in ROTJ. 

But in order for this to work I think it has to be a more Kenobi-centric trilogy. He has to be the main protagonist like Luke was for the OT. The resin for this is because if you make it all about Anakin then to somehow get to the "turn" and then sorta cheat it or imply it but not imply it might be too big a cheat.

If it's Kenobi-centered, then it's more about his reaction to things rather than the need to see those things explicitly. 

Maul's costume: think about how it mirrors Lukes in ROTJ. 

Maul's costume would also change over a period of the three films to eventually be proto-OT Vader. 

So when ROTJ rolls around Luke would have this black costume that might subconsciously evoke Maul in episode one. It would raise the tension just a bit. Is Luke going to follow the same path as original-Vader and his own father, later-Vader? 

So episode one has Vader, who is the exact same guy as Maul but his name is Darth Vader instead. His look is the same as Maul. 

It is revealed he's a former pupil of Kenobi who turned to the dark side. The jedi council have banned kenobi from further teachings as a result.

He's kind of down on his luck, sent out to the boonies to settle trivial trade disputes by the jedi as a result.

But on one of these trivial missions a larger conspiracy is revealed. 

the trade federation have blockaded a small word of naboo over accusations of sheltering clone defectors, which naboo vehemently denies. naboo is invaded. leading this invasion is darth vader and mandalorian shock troops. 

kenobi rescues the queen with the help of a refugee clone named Not Jar Jar binks.

they all escape. 

Kenobi eventually makes it to the outer rim world where a teenage Anakin lives with his family, including step bro Owen Lars.

He sees Anakin as strong in the force. he tells him of their mission. Owen is skeptical. he thinks he and anakin need to stay behind and help the family run their little spice shipping business. but kenobi sways anakin and he decides to leave. this upsets owen to no end. eventually, owen reluctantly goes with kenobi and company to look after his little bro. 

they decide to disguise their leaving by hopping aboard one the families old beat up spice freighter hunks of junk. 

Before they leave, they run into darth vader, who is hunting down the queen of naboo. 

they venture to coruscant. there kenobi meets his old friend and mentor, not master, qui-gon jinn.

Kenobi sees his chance to redeem himself by taking Anakin before the council to ask them to reconsider their ban on him training jedi. Jinn is skeptical. 

Kenobi reveals to the jedi council he has encountered darth vader on tatooine. 

The council revisits kenobi's failure with Vader and are incredulous he would think of repeating his mistake with anakin. This sets up conflict between kenobi and the jedi council, who have marked him as reckless and impulsive.

Kenobi is not allowed to train Anakin. Qui-Gon Jinn follows a despondent Kenobi out onto a jedi temple balcony to watch the sunsets. 

kenobi breaks the bad news to anakin. owen assures anakin they can always go home and return to farming but anakin is wary. in the senate a debate rages over naboo. bail organa, senator and viceroy of alderaan introduced.

they all decide to go back to naboo. leading the way is anakin and owen as copilots of a vessel with the jedi and entourage onboard. 

anakin executes a miraculous hyperspace jump in-between the federation blockade and the planet of naboo. 

they land and the fight is on. but it's not three pronged. 

everyone goes together. you have a small band of clone refugees, the jedi, and the queens entourage. 

anakin is tired of being stuck in the freighter. he decides to take action. he waits until owen nods off under a tree and takes off with the ship. owen wakes in time to see his bro starting take off. he jumps into the ship just as the ship flies off. he thinks anakin is nuts. 

they fly in the skies above theed city and begin providing air support for the entourage as they make their way into the city. once inside the hangar, the entourage and the clones go off from the two jedi, kenobi and qui ton as they begin to fight vader. 

the queens entourage captures the trade viceroy. the siege is lifted. 

vader kills qui gon, kenobi attacks, vader escapes. 

over qui gons funeral pyre kenobi quietly assures anakin that he will train him and he will become a jedi. 

a massive military parade of troops comes through thees as a going away celebration to fight the mandalores. anakin waves bye to the queen, who smiles. kenobi and anakin take off in their fighters along with owen, who pilots a larger vessel.

begun, this clone war has. 

Make Mace Windu's saber blue and Yoda's purple. That way Yoda is the one with the unique saber.

darklordoftech said:

Make Mace Windu's saber blue and Yoda's purple. That way Yoda is the one with the unique saber.

Even if you'd consider Yoda having a saber at all (ew ew ewwwwwwwww) why should anybody's be unique?

brash_stryker said:

darklordoftech said:

Make Mace Windu's saber blue and Yoda's purple. That way Yoda is the one with the unique saber.

Even if you'd consider Yoda having a saber at all (ew ew ewwwwwwwww) why should anybody's be unique?

Because Yoda is supposed to be unique and the master of The Force as well as to moderate the effect of Yoda having a saber.

I still think Yoda having one at all is ridiculous, but this has been argued to death already.

well the bad thing is "Yoda - the fighting frog", but maybe if he wasn't jumping all over the place, Yoda wielding a lightsaber could be watchable ?

like put him on his "floating chair" and then he could do battle Dooku or Sidious ...

I wasn't very fond of the duels, but this could smooth them a little ;-)

As for coloring, don't know if the whole "blue/green/red" or mutlicolored is better, depends an your story and taste ...

I think Yoda in ESB was there to show Luke (and by extension the audience) that the force is something beyond the physical, and that you don't need to be physically big and strong to make a big difference. The audience isn't expecting this shrivelled up frail alien to have any real power at all, and then he raises the X-Wing out of the swamp, not with brawn, but with the power of his MIND.

Yoda represents the intellectual and the spiritual. To have him fighting at all undermines that IMO. He should be like a Jedi monk, rather than a Jedi Knight.

It's worth noting again though, that I don't think Yoda should even be in the prequels. He should be known to the audience as "That mysterious Jedi Master that the most gifted Knights go off to be trained by occasionally" but we shouldn't actually meet him until ESB.

as I said, not fond of Yodas duels ;-)

just wanted to give an idea as to how "fix" the fights, if one wants to keep them ...

going "radical": I agree, it would be better to cut Yoda all out and have him be the great and mysterious master!

only questions remains: Obi-Wan told Luke he was his master ...

In a reimagined prequel, Obi could already be a full Knight so it's no issue. Yoda will have trained him before the events of the films :)

The Prequels as they already are has done more damage than that by introducing Qui Gon as Obi's master, contrary to what we were told in the OT - and then Lucas awkwardly tried fixing it by implying that Yoda is like a freaking Kindergarten teacher for all young Jedi......yes, that makes it all better, George.

brash_stryker said:

I still think Yoda having one at all is ridiculous, but this has been argued to death already.

I wasn't saying that Yoda should have a saber at all. Rather, I was saying that if Yoda has to have a saber, it should be a unique color.

I wonder if ALL jedi sabres in the PT are Blue, like in ANH. Then Luke's green one could be more of a surprise.

I seem to remember someone called Bingowings saying something similar over and over and over again (he really is a boring git).

I rather have blue/green/red than only blue/red - and the other colors be a "suprise", like for Dooku or some "special" character ...

I'd rather the green be the surprise colour....for luke. Let some other rogueish Jedi have orange, purple or yellow possibly. The only Jedi that fits the bill is Dooku, but only if it can be convincingly made clear he's actually good. No one has accomplished this completely yet although JasonN went to some lengths to making it so he's not obviously a Sith.