The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 210

I don't know Bingo if radical is the right word to say what AOTC needs. I'd rather say "deep" changes, not only in the plot, but in some messages the movie is sending to us.

First of all it needs, like most of the prequels, some visual catch up with the OT (Bob Garcia's giving an excellent example of how to make it with his EPIII edit).

Secondly, plot-dialogue editing.

And mainly, AOTC gives us the fans a subtle yet ironical way to tweak what Lucas proposes with this movie, (on your face, George (?)).

I've been thinking on it for a while, and arrived to the conclussion that, as it is now, the saga is expressing that the fall of the Jedi, and the utter fall of the Republic is a consequence of Anakin getting involved with Padme (that stupid shit of forbidden love, and stuff); breaking the rules of the Jedi order. This is more a stupid set up, how could ever in a "matinée-souled" saga be love a problem? his falling in love just that!. Some writers of EU got it the other way and expressed the tragedy of Vader (and with his tragedy, the galaxy's) was more as a consequence of the Jedi Order misfunction, pressuring Anakin to a point wich exploded. This could be, of course, the other side of the coin. Love's not the problem, but those who pretend to repel it. And what's curious is that what defines if the movie is balancing to one perspective or to the other is the grade of conscience Anakin has about:

What's going on in general in the Republic context

The Jedi's double standards. (what you Bingo, brillantly pointed out)

So, if it's to make this little tough deep change in the movie, well, you could tell the "we're not allowed to love, but we are encouraged to support compassion" scene, is pure gold, isn't it?

Jaitea said:

EyeShotFirst said:

mrbenja0618 said:

Eye, did you do this in After Effects.. You kinda said how you did it... Can you be more detailed? Looks great!

My computer can't handle that in After Effects. I did it in photoshop, but the changes were applied to all the frames at the same time. I have dabbled in After Effects and I believe it can be done.

I used photo filter, cyan, and raised it to my liking.

I then went into brightness/contrast, and raised brightness until it didn't feel dark. Then I added contrast to bring back some detail.

Then removed a little saturation, and boosted some colours.

The underlined part is what made it look good, other was just messing around.

When I was doing this I was applying each change to each layer at the same time.

 

If anybody would be willing to do the scene in motion, that would be awesome!!

I did a few tweaks with the colour in Ae and it does totally change the scene......the colours that are buried under that mask of orange , its maybe not adjusted to what you had in mind ESF, but to me its different to look at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRyu4DiZWNw

J

      Been meaning to say the color adjustment work going on here is just PHONEMENAL! So nice to see this en bloc. I wonder what tune haljordan is singing after seeing your work.

      ^ Bingo, I've been waiting  to deal with great PT concepts like skipping worlds and limiting character involvement.

     I didn't want to try any PT concepts until after I have watched PE's TPE and AOTP. I wanted to use that approach as my starting point. I've discovered a workaround (after it was dropped on my head- Thanks Frink:)

     I haven't found any examples of the exact approach I hope to see in a PT fan edit.  Lots of help here along those lines. Makes me think it could be done.

    For ROTS, not much else to do. The "Poster Boy" banter is a little clunky;  I think a little trimming could smooth that out. Others are removing the younglings and toning down some of Aniken's exclamations. For the 'Lava River', I think I might have gotten the "Cooling Shield" concept if the energy cones had extended upwards to shoulder level, fading out on the way up. The "Go to Padame before the Masters" idea is intrigueing; I'd be interested in a clip. ROTS is too dense with reveals and plot ties to cut agressively. Anyway, it's great! 

      I've seen edits combining all three episodes. I want to combine 1 and 2. If TPM could be altered at the meeting of the Jedi and Jar-Jar to have JJ say he has a watercraft and maybe that there'd be no warm welcome at the Gungan city, there could be a cut to a shortened journey through the core (without too much JJ howling). Then they could go directly to Coruscant. No Tatooie. No boy. They would return, find the Gungans, and fight the battle (except the fighter battle- It's moved to battle of Geonosis) The Gungan battle could be reduced to not much more than luring them out and wildest JJ antics cut (PE.) Some of the talk about Qui-gon's new apprentice would remain including council objections and Obi-Wans warnings and apology (new 15 year old boy never seen.) Make Obi-Wan seem about 30 (5 O'clock shadow?) and cut all the Padowan trials stuff (full knight.) Every effort to keep it under 50 minutes. New crawl and Droid ship attack? :) Otherwise much like PE. All Naboo fighters removed from TPM sequence.

 For AOTC, new crawl and droid ship dropping out of hyperspace behind senator's ship? New crawl could state that the senator is returning with a republican fighter escort (Naboo fighters recolored and markings like X/E-wings with Republic insignia) Meeting in the apartment could be cut to suggest that Ani and Padame have met sometime between TPM section and present (Han and Lando knew each other previously) A Fed base ship could be in orbit as Obi approaches. TPM fighter battle takes place with Naboo recolored as Geonosis and fighters recolored and clones with shaded visors in cockpits. Otherwise much like PE except some shortened sequences re-added (next post.)

   Every effort to keep it under 160 minutes (cuts wherever possible) so it is one film instead of two back to back. additional crawl about halfway through the AOTC section (to make it seem like saturday morning adventure theater.) For working purposes the new episode sequence is: 7 TPM section, 8. first (senator returns) AOTC section, 9.second AOTC section, and episode 10 is ROTS (episodes 11-16 are for remakes.) 

   EDIT: Could Maul and his probe droids land on Naboo instead? Change background? It's probably too much to hope that Maul- Qui-Gon first duel could occur while escaping from Naboo.  

Why not augment the Naboo fighter escort with pristine X-wings, as a senator during these difficult times Padme could have some official Republic ships protecting her as well as the ceremonial escorts from her homeworld.

She is landing on the Republic capital planet.

If the Prime Minister of Ireland was going to land in Washington I'd imagine the US would send some fighters up to protect him during the landing.

Not Brian 'popular' Cowan surely? ;-)

Bingowings said:

Why not augment the Naboo fighter escort with pristine X-wings, as a senator during these difficult times Padme could have some official Republic ships protecting her as well as the ceremonial escorts from her homeworld.

 

    A cheap re-use of old (CG) props. ;)

    X-wings could be cool. :)

Bingowings said:

Why not augment the Naboo fighter escort with pristine X-wings, as a senator during these difficult times Padme could have some official Republic ships protecting her as well as the ceremonial escorts from her homeworld.

She is landing on the Republic capital planet.

If the Prime Minister of Ireland was going to land in Washington I'd imagine the US would send some fighters up to protect him during the landiing.

    TBH, the fighter change was the product of the remake mindset (good catch, Bingo.)

    In my remake SWU, Naboo is to the galaxy what Luxembourg is to the world. I'd be mildly surprised to discover that Luxembourg is building all of it's own high performance fighters. in the RSWU, items like advanced fighters, top of the line executive transports, and AI droids are produced by competing multi-system intra-galactic consortiums.

    In this, I was trying to follow GL's original story arc (my best guess, anyway.) 

    Luxembourg (Naboo) is a medium between French and German.

    Switzerland (Aldaraan) is a medium between French, German, and Italian. 

    The Holyland (RSWU Naboo/Aldaraan/Newname) is the medium between Europe, Asia, and Africa.

   EDIT: NAME:R

Has anyone ever adjusted the Fed's dialogue to explicitly state their reason for sending the droid back in to keep the Jedi comfortable before gassing them was because Jedis can't read a droid's 'mind' or do the mind trick on one (which goes some of the way to giving the Fed's a good reason for using inferior droids to make up their army)?

It's sort of there in the existing dialogue but it's too hidden in the rubbish jokes to really stand out and it is a major plot point.

The droids are chosen to stop the Jedi from influencing them but they aren't as good as a military force as the Clones chosen by the Republic (because the Jedi are on their side) but they have been programmed to follow direct orders from the Chancellor (who is a Sith Lord and can't be read by the Jedi).

It's an example of Palpatine using the Republic's reliance on the Jedi as a means to take over.

Bingowings said:

Trying to make sense of the Zam/Fett/Poisoned bugs thing.

What if Zam is hired by Gunray directly to kill Padme and use the droid, operated by remote to do it (we already know that the Feds use battle droids so no need for bugs).

It opens up a hole in the window, takes aim and Anakin rushes in just in time to deflect the shots.

When Kenobi jumps onto the droid she tries to smack him into buildings using the remote and then self destructs it.

Fett kills Zam under orders from Dooku who is trying to control Gunray's quest for revenge because she is one of the few Senators trying to stop the escalation of the war.

Perfect.

Man I wish there was enough footage out there to re-edit these films to make most of TPM and AOTC into the same movie. Most of the "kill Padme" stuff could've happened in TPM too by Sidious trying to secretly off her because she can galvanize support to defeat the Naboo occupation.

But anyway...that would take a whole new movie.

My instinct is to remove Gunray and other Neimodians entirely in order to paint a picture of Dooku as a good guy, but at the same time, the Jedi need a reason not to trust him, and associating with Gunray is certainly a reason after the whole Naboo thing.

The only gap in logic is why didn't Dooku go to the Jedi with his suspicions in the first place? Why start a war first before telling an imprisoned Obi Wan that the republic is in Sith control?

brash_stryker said:

My instinct is to remove Gunray and other Neimodians entirely in order to paint a picture of Dooku as a good guy, but at the same time, the Jedi need a reason not to trust him, and associating with Gunray is certainly a reason after the whole Naboo thing.

The only gap in logic is why didn't Dooku go to the Jedi with his suspicions in the first place? Why start a war first before telling an imprisoned Obi Wan that the republic is in Sith control?

Didn't he mention to Obi-Wan in AOTC how the JC wouldn't believe him?

And if not, just take some dialogue from another film(if applicable) and tie it into there suggesting it.

You could certainly have Dooku in TPM at some point. Maybe at Qui-Gon's funeral? Maybe in the JC scenes?

Those are doable because there's little camera movement in the JC scenes.

I still like the Dooku as maverick jedi but not sith idea. He leaves the jedi order. He's a part of the lost 20. The lost 20 are all jedi who have left the order recently and mysteriously vanished.

Then a separatist movement pops up led by someone the republic people name Tyranus.

Kenobi later finds out Tyranus is really Dooku, who discovered the sith infiltrated the republic at the highest levels. Dooku believes the republic is now too corrupt. He wants to "start over". The other Lost 20 have joined Dooku.

So Kenobi realizes he has been fighting for the bad guys against the good guys all along.

But not yet. The republic arrives and blows the crap out of Geonosis. Dooku escapes, but not the other Lost 20.

Palpatine is upset that so many jedi have betrayed the republic. He orders Anakin to take over the JC, bring Dooku to justice, and the Jedi Order to be put under his direct control.

Iris Out....onto ROTS.

In ANH Beru and Owen seem to know a lot more about Anakin and his fall that they could possibly know from their brief encounters with Jedi and Senators in AOTC and ROTS.

It might be possible to remove Beru from AOTC so that Pegg-Cliegg Lars is running the farm with Owen.

Beru could be one of the nebula of handmaidens that orbit Padme throughout the PT.

That way she could know all about Padme and Anakin's secret marriage and his twitchy backstory.

She could then move in with Owen to look after Luke and tell her new husband (the Lars family already have a history of mail order marriages, Owen might see this as a bargain) what he hasn't already heard.

Bingowings said:

In ANH Beru and Owen seem to know a lot more about Anakin and his fall that they could possibly know from their brief encounters with Jedi and Senators in AOTC and ROTS.

from their reaction in ANH i always thought that perhaps owen could know about anakin turning to the darkside, and beru just knowing him as the nice jedi.

i always thought owen and beru would be larger characters in the PT, almost like the previous non-jedi characters like han and leia. could be cool if ady has multiple clone identities, that owen is an old soldier. a captain who jumps ship with obi wan and yoda.

I don't mind Owen and Beru not having big parts in the PT, nor do I think we really have to see Obi-Wan telling them what happened to Anakin. What I think would be necessary to see is some interaction between Anakin/Padme and Owen/Beru. 

Some scenes like this were written for AOTC. Most importantly, there was a scene in the garage where the four of them receive the message from Obi-Wan, and Anakin and Owen have a discussion about Anakin leaving. Just like Obi-Wan mentions in ANH. That scene was later reworked in Anakin and Padme receiving the message in Padme's ship and just taking off. I really hope we get to see stuff like this on the Blu-ray release.

in ROTJ the script had extra dialogue when force ghost Obi-Wan is talking to Luke on Dagobah. eventually he mentions that Owen was his brother.

i'm glad it was cut out it seems more natural that Owen was Anakin's brother. i can't recall anything in the OT that contradicts that assumption.

shanerjedi said:

Didn't he mention to Obi-Wan in AOTC how the JC wouldn't believe him?

Nope, unfortunately. Otherwise it'd be a hell of a lot easier making it more plausible.

shanerjedi said:

You could certainly have Dooku in TPM at some point. Maybe at Qui-Gon's funeral? Maybe in the JC scenes?

Those are doable because there's little camera movement in the JC scenes.

Whether it's doable or not, simply having Dooku at the funeral isn't sufficient in conveying anything new to the audience. For a new viewer it wouldn't make anything any clearer than before unless new dialogue can be constructed (but there's no accompanying lipsync) - Dooku still leaves the order and we don't know why and it's still not suggested he went to the Jedi with his suspicions. Unless you refilm Christopher Lee having an argument with the rest of Jedi about the corruption he senses in the senate, then nothing changes.

This is why I'm hoping the Jocasta Nu scene will be included in the Blu Ray release as a deleted scene. In this scene she tells Obi Wan what a great Jedi he was, and that he was one of only 20 Jedi to have ever left the order, and that he did so because he was discontent with how things were being run.

That scene at least hints that he's had a disagreement and voiced his opinion on the matter.

Yeah the lost 20 scene is certainly my favorite scene Ive never watched. Ive read it and it does give the audience great insight into his character and motivation.

But I do agree with you about just cutting and pasting him into TPM wouldn't be sufficient in establishing him as a character.

I got it...turn Dooku into Qui-Gon! A tougher task even, but hey you can't say his character isn't established in the first film. :D

Seriously though, any editor who wants to change the actual characterizations and motivations of them in the PT has their work cut out for them.

Adywan's PT edit will go far beyond anything he's currently doing. They will be about more than fx touchups and fixing inconsistencies.

Hey,

thejediknighthusezni said:

Hey,

Howdy.

Hey,

  It looks like the editors around here are at a point where additional suggestions are probably more trouble than they're worth. Sorry for getting in late.

   I just want to address probably the greatest transition problem and then violate my own imparative to cut as much as possible by argueing for reinsertion of parts of PE's deletions.

   Going from TPM section suddenly to PA and AS having known each other in the past is a bit of a rough jump. Maybe, in the elevator, it could go from OW chuckling about the Gondarks to AS saying "I haven't seen her in <TWO> years, master." 1 year to finish term as queen, they meet, and then 2 more years to the present events. Then like PE.

   The walk to the palace might have to be put back in as well. Then like PE.

   PE has more fortitude for cutting very beautiful scenes for the sake of speedier and better pace and character development.

   In the picnic scene, maybe turn up the waterfall noises and muffle conversation during the distant establishing shots. Then, maybe start dialogue with AS "Whatever happened...." then PA "I went...." then AS "Maybe...." PA "You really...." AS "I like...." Cut all political stuff then PA "You're making fun....(so it looks like reaction to "...I'm not sure....")" then  AS "No, I'd be...."

   In the meadow rodeo, maybe trim a little just as he starts to fall (Go to PA worried look) Cut to roll together the frame when PA slaps chest. Muffle or mute forced laughter throughout.

   Dining room scene: I can see good reasons for all PE's cuts, save one.  PA is very lovely and AS is being charming. The only slight problem I see is when the apple bite enters her mouth. Maybe go to AS the frame she bites then back to her after mouth is closed. (or leave as is.) Then, in the arena battle, reinsert only PA "I call that aggressive negotiation." or simply "Aggressive negotiation." (or not at all :/)

   Fireplace scene: They look away from each other then cut all AS dialogue before (keep) AS "What can I do? I will do anything you ask." then cut everything before (keep) PA "I can't...We can't... It's just not possible." then wipe to OW scene. Saves time.

   OW-JF platform fight scene: Trim it a bit. Maybe, when OW slides over edge and holding wire have OW swing towards balcony the moment JF releases the cord ( no fall and then throw wire on way down) (might build tension.)

   In Asteroid chase scene: Maybe just the sonic blast thing or just the guns thing. Then hide behind the rock.

   Garage scene: Maybe cut AS "Why did she have to die?" cut AS "It's all OW's fault. He's jealous! He's holding me back!"

   New continuity errors: TPM Palpy to Senate "<Recently> elected...." (term ends in a year." OW MW on landing platform OW "...Since he was a boy" 3PO on farm recognizing PA. Maybe more.

   Aside from these possibilities, I like PE's work

    Just throwing out suggestions. Whatever :)

shanerjedi said:

Didn't he mention to Obi-Wan in AOTC how the JC wouldn't believe him?

And if not, just take some dialogue from another film(if applicable) and tie it into there suggesting it.

You could certainly have Dooku in TPM at some point. Maybe at Qui-Gon's funeral? Maybe in the JC scenes?

Those are doable because there's little camera movement in the JC scenes.

I still like the Dooku as maverick jedi but not sith idea. He leaves the jedi order. He's a part of the lost 20. The lost 20 are all jedi who have left the order recently and mysteriously vanished.

Then a separatist movement pops up led by someone the republic people name Tyranus.

Kenobi later finds out Tyranus is really Dooku, who discovered the sith infiltrated the republic at the highest levels. Dooku believes the republic is now too corrupt. He wants to "start over". The other Lost 20 have joined Dooku.

So Kenobi realizes he has been fighting for the bad guys against the good guys all along.

But not yet. The republic arrives and blows the crap out of Geonosis. Dooku escapes, but not the other Lost 20.

Palpatine is upset that so many jedi have betrayed the republic. He orders Anakin to take over the JC, bring Dooku to justice, and the Jedi Order to be put under his direct control.

Iris Out....onto ROTS.

WOW! That would be awesome! I definitely agree with the part about Dooku not being a Sith. He should only be a maverick...perhaps the start of the Rebel Alliance of the OT... Although if someone goes with that idea, his lightsaber may need to be rotoscoped blue, yellow, green, or purple. I personally think green would be ideal as it kind of foretells that the old jedi order will fall and a new one will rise (Luke's).

The Aluminum Falcon said:

WOW! That would be awesome! I definitely agree with the part about Dooku not being a Sith. He should only be a maverick...perhaps the start of the Rebel Alliance of the OT... Although if someone goes with that idea, his lightsaber may need to be rotoscoped blue, yellow, green, or purple. I personally think green would be ideal as it kind of foretells that the old jedi order will fall and a new one will rise (Luke's).

Psst! It's already been done by several editors ;-)