The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 161

Ric Olie said:

Rogue Leader said:

Ric Olie said:

Bingowings said:

Why are the Naboo making clones in the first place?

Obviously, when you have someone who is perfect in your midst, you do your best to get more of him.

Is this Ralph Brown?! LOL! Cos if it was and he's actually volunteering for TPM Revisited and we do a cloning plot then there it is. We have a movie people! XD

Who is this Ralph Brown people keep going on about?

PM sent, RL.

Tell you what, get me into the ESB:R credits and I'll see what I can do...

Err... getting into the credits is easy. Just suggest something to Adywan! LOL!

TV's Frink said:

Actually I belive the deadline was mid-last year, which sadly was too early for either Ric or myself.

:-(

Well at least there's still ROTJ:R right? =D

Bingowings said:

It wouldn't take too much effort to make out that the Federation have a claim to the planet, all be it a old one (right click to enlarge) :

Mmm... and yet I see one major problem that I personally want exterminated... Gungans. XD

Also... how does this plot line tie in to the other two PT movies? Not a strong premise overall. We have to think of them as a whole not individually which is what GL did wrong till he actually got some screen writing help for AOTC.

Bingowings said:

If you combine the sort of editing that Slumberland and others have used with redubbing (Timstuff did a good job at making Jar Jar sound less annoying : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiGyJB7-LpA)you can create much more rounded characters out of them.

In my idea they are the indigenous people of the planet and originally saw the Neimodians as gods when they arrived on their planet (ergo the statues).

They still resent the Naboo and their official representation in the Senate (they see them as a occupying force albeit a now reasonably peaceful one).

Jar Jar is a token representative (he doesn't even get to vote in the Senate and he's looked down on by his own people for mixing with the humans).

He isn't as stupid but his now toned down clumsiness comes from living most of his time away from any action on Coruscant.

By the end of the film which is restructured to start in the capital where the invasion has started with the queen off world and leads to Tatooine and a final battle to reclaim the planet at the end.

Sidious/Palpatine wants to create panic to start an arms race so if the Federation are successful he would use that as an outrage to set the senate against them (their allies would either sit on their hands or back them up).

If the Federation lose they will be isolated for their act of hubris and will resentfully start trouble (like they do anyway).

By removing the face from the hologram (like JasonN and Magnoliafan did) the Feds would not be able to point the finger at Palpatine.

toning down the annoying doesn't mean they won't be annoying still at some lower level. I say do what Palpy said "Wipe them out... ALL OF THEM" ;)

Bingowings said:

In my idea they are the indigenous people of the planet and originally saw the Neimodians as gods when they arrived on their planet (ergo the statues).

 Ive always loved this idea from the moment i heard it, tbh i think ive used it when i was rewriting episode 1 script.

In my concept i had the Naboo attack the Gungans thus had to retreat to underwater cities etc. they steal the Gungan's crystal (like a buddha stolen from a chinese village). This of course happens before the film.

The Neimodians attack and the Gungans see this as a return for the Gods and thus try and wipe Naboo out and the Gungans refuse to help them hense why they decide not to help the jedi. (Kind of nobody can save them from our gods kinda thing not even you Jedi). Later in the film the Gungans realise that this is not their Gods but invaders as Qui Gon had said.

I always loved the idea of technology vs. a religious aspect. Kind of like science and creation arguements. Besides takes it away from that political side of the PT that people hated.

DuTwan said:

Bingowings said:

In my idea they are the indigenous people of the planet and originally saw the Neimodians as gods when they arrived on their planet (ergo the statues).

 Ive always loved this idea from the moment i heard it, tbh i think ive used it when i was rewriting episode 1 script.

In my concept i had the Naboo attack the Gungans thus had to retreat to underwater cities etc. they steal the Gungan's crystal (like a buddha stolen from a chinese village). This of course happens before the film.

The Neimodians attack and the Gungans see this as a return for the Gods and thus try and wipe Naboo out and the Gungans refuse to help them hense why they decide not to help the jedi. (Kind of nobody can save them from our gods kinda thing not even you Jedi). Later in the film the Gungans realise that this is not their Gods but invaders as Qui Gon had said.

I always loved the idea of technology vs. a religious aspect. Kind of like science and creation arguements. Besides takes it away from that political side of the PT that people hated.

The ideas concerning gungan involvement maybe fine and maybe even decent but for 1 movie only.  However, it wouldn't tie into Episode 2 and 3 at all and tech vs nature story line is more ROTJ anyway. Rock throwing ewoks vs blaster totting Imps... So it's been done yeah? =P Also... do we REALLY want to go into an area of monotheistic or polytheistic religion for a SW movie? It's as bad as politics... You know this to be true and besides... The Force is the only fan relatable religion in SW (which GL also screwed up with that bacteria symbiotic garbage), anything further would be confusing fodder for a okay story that maybe good for the EU but not for SW movie. You'd end up explaining more technical things about Neimodian culture and such more than actually telling a real story focused on Anakin in a galaxy that's on the bring of war in 10 short years.

I think I'll work on some kinda of story outline for a cloning angle. Time to unleash my special ability of retconning like no tomorrow while keep continuity... lol I see about keeping as much of TPM as possible with out getting into the realm of "suck". lol

I just disagree of having Gungans in TPM at all. Worse thing GL ever invented and really... I blame his kids actually.

Why this fuss again about tying TPM into AOTC and ROTS? It works well enough with as many connections as it presently has (although I'll concede the connections themselves, like much of the movie, could do with some tweaking). None of us are complaining about Adywan not doing more to tie ANH into ESB and ROTJ, despite ANH being a lot more standalone than TPM.

RoccondilRinon said:

Why this fuss again about tying TPM into AOTC and ROTS? It works well enough with as many connections as it presently has (although I'll concede the connections themselves, like much of the movie, could do with some tweaking). None of us are complaining about Adywan not doing more to tie ANH into ESB and ROTJ, despite ANH being a lot more standalone than TPM.

The thing about the PT is that we know this is Anakin Skywalker's story arc. Like Luke's humble beginnings from farmer to hero of the Rebellion is the OT arc. The PT is similar to Anakin from slave to hero of the Clone Wars (the difference between the two comes down to the final choices they made concerning the Force, Dark and Light (which on a side note should be the ONLY religious focus in all Star Wars movies and everything else should be soley in the domain of the EU. =P). When Anakin's journey really begins in Episode 1 is also when the Clone Wars at some level of it should start as well. Right now Anakin Skywalker and the possibility of a galaxy wide destructive conflict IS NOT at the forefront as it should be.

TPM begins with a trivial dispute over taxes along with a blockade that stops trade to a planet that apparently can't survive without space trade for like 2 days... A very lush natural and rich planet with a power reactor room the size of the Death Star's main reactor can not survive without space trade? That makes no sense and most of the movie makes NO sense and probably breaks it's own continuity at several levels if we even understood what the story was about...

Therefore, I agree that more than half a movie needs a major over haul if not taken out entirely... Why not make that half taken out the Gungans AND replace it with a major plot driver for the other two movies? No one likes the Gungans other than kids younger than 3 and everyone else wishes they would just die. (Have Jar Jar in Ep.2 though, he has like no lines and officially starts the Clone Wars which wipes out almost all the Jedi, so we're suppose to hate him... lol).

Overall, as Anakin's journey begins, so should the escalation of a galaxy wide war that ends with the destruction of the Jedi Order. Anakin starts his life as a Jedi by the end of TPM... it end in ROTS... The Clones Wars should start by the end of TPM (with the acquiring of human Cloning Tech) and also end in ROTS... Kinda makes sense right? Or am I losing it? =P 

I really like Ady's elegant nods to the PT in ANH Revisited. The holo display map in the Rebel War room. The DS graphic from AOTC in the Rebel breifing, and the "Battle of the Heroes" music when Vader and Obi duel. The things is that the movies ARE suppose tie in with each other, not only with tech but with the conflicts and characters and just over all story arcs...

SilverKey said:

Then, AOTC's openingcrawl could explain that in the 10 years since TPM, the Separatist movement has grown since TPM, and that both sides are preparing for war. To counter the threat, the Republic has issued the creation of a clone army. The vote Amidala returns to Coruscant for, is the vote about whether or not to deploy the army.

Actually... that's eroneous as well... the thing about the creation of the clone army is that the Sith are pulling the strings for BOTH the Seperatist and Republic Forces... You're thinking along the lines of the Seperatist being this independent outside movement when it's the Sith manipulating both armies for the sole destruction of the Jedi.

You see? The only casualty is are Jedi and the TF are pawns in the Sith's ambitions. "The war is over? Sidious promised us peace" or whatever the hell he said... They were IN on the Sith's plan from TPM into ROTS for their own gain all along and then Sidious betrays them by dispatching Anakin to slay the Seperatist Leaders in ROTS...

The Clone Wars is a fake... They wouldn't be asking for Naboo to be allied with them and it occurs to me that Naboo should be akin to Alderaan. They have no standing army... They wouldn't want war or be ally to a group that wants it. In fact in Episode II Amidala is called back to Coruscant to vote on the creation of the Grand Army of the Republic but she was going to vote no. The reason why Jar Jar calls for the creation of the Clone Army is that he's an idiot. It is because he was placed in charge of the anti-war movement cos of Amidala's being targetted for assasination and has to go into hiding. He's been manipulated by Palpatine when he said "If there was only a senator brave enough to take up the position" (or whatever he said" which is a brillant move by the Sith to force a peace wanting representative to call for the creation of an army to protect the Republic... It shows how cunning the Sith totally are.

The thing about the PT is that we know this is Anakin Skywalker's story arc.

Well, we don't actually, not if we're watching the films in chronological order. One of the goals of many PT fanedits (including, I believe, Adywan's Revisited series) is to make them viewable in chronological order without spoiling the plot twist in ESB. To argue that we already know all this because we wouldn't be sitting here editing the films otherwise is missing the point; if TPM is designed to be the first seen in the sequence, as GL claims and several fanedits are designed, it's OK if it stands alone and sets up the universe and we don't really hit the "main" plot (which does tie into the events of TPM; we must remember that it's in TPM that Palpatine gets elected Chancellor) until AOTC.

Re Ady's PT nods in ANH:R, they make sense on the above theory because it's ultimately going to be the fourth film in the sequence, so it has to tie in more; although it's still going to follow a time skip so it has to start afresh to some extent.

I didn't say the saga isn't about Anakin — of course it is — just that it doesn't matter if his story starts in the background and only kicks off in episode 2.

In addition, re Sidious being behind the Separatists: as it stands in the original version, he doesn't decide to double-cross them until the opening act of ROTS. For most of the Clone Wars, he's running both sides, not so as to turn the Republic into the Empire, but simply so that he would wind up ruling the galaxy no matter which side won. An edit can make of this what it will, but that's the way I see the original movies going. It's not that he planned every step exactly the way it ended up happening; he set it up so that once he became Chancellor and set up the Separatists, he could play one side against the other and come out on top whichever way it went.

RoccondilRinon said:

The thing about the PT is that we know this is Anakin Skywalker's story arc.

Well, we don't actually, not if we're watching the films in chronological order. One of the goals of many PT fanedits (including, I believe, Adywan's Revisited series) is to make them viewable in chronological order without spoiling the plot twist in ESB. To argue that we already know all this because we wouldn't be sitting here editing the films otherwise is missing the point; if TPM is designed to be the first seen in the sequence, as GL claims and several fanedits are designed, it's OK if it stands alone and sets up the universe and we don't really hit the "main" plot (which does tie into the events of TPM; we must remember that it's in TPM that Palpatine gets elected Chancellor) until AOTC.

Re Ady's PT nods in ANH:R, they make sense on the above theory because it's ultimately going to be the fourth film in the sequence, so it has to tie in more; although it's still going to follow a time skip so it has to start afresh to some extent.

For those of us who have seen the OT and love only those three (obviously cos we all come here to post stuff. lol) yeah the prequels is the second trilogy you'd show your kids to watch if at all. lol However, as time goes by and for the average normal person, that makes no sense because there is an entire generation of kids out there who will watch it in order... Why? cos like counting numbers is one of the things most kids are taught. =P lol...

Further, it makes no sense to be that short sighted to save a surprise in ESB. I actually think it's just as dramatic if you didn't know Vader is Luke's father because you empathies with Luke the whole time during the fight on Cloud City and then Vader drops the bomb we all already know. You feel Luke's stomach folds in on itself and his utter disbelief but we all know it to be true... 

So Palpatine's long shot plot to get a "vote of no confidence" on Valorum, then get nominated to surplant him out of a few candidates, and then get elected for all the power is his "master plot" for TPM? Wow... the political intrigue there is... so... so... so boring, very worthy for a movie named Star WARS. Why not call it Star Politics then, Episode 1, The Phantom Vote. =P

The thing is, we have NO idea what Adywan wants to do with TPM:R (he's kinda focused on ESB:R and doesn't even want to think about ROTJ:R yet either). However, if he keeps 90% of TPM... it'll be mediocre at best but a step up from an utterly crap. However, I think if he wanted to take a bold shot at making Episode 1 make sense, while eliminating 90% of the annoyance which are the Gungans. Then cut out 50% of the movie by removing all the Gungan plots and subplots, supplement the 50% with new or manipulated footage that could drive a plot that can tie in elegantly with the rest of the PT (and I think a clone driven plot could work very well)... If we keep the TPM story as is and soley fix the technical "errors" and just tone the the visual crap, it's still gonna be incredibly lame as the first SW movie... It will still makes no sense.

RoccondilRinon said:

An edit can make of this what it will, but that's the way I see the original movies going. It's not that he planned every step exactly the way it ended up happening; he set it up so that once he became Chancellor and set up the Separatists, he could play one side against the other and come out on top whichever way it went.

Umm... he IS both sides... not playing one side against the other. Remember the sole goal is the complete elimination of the Jedi Knight. The backbone of the Republic. Without them a Sith taking over the galaxy is way easy anyway. Papalptine didn't declare himself Emperor till Order 66 was carried out and then nothing could stop him from there... Taking over the galaxy is icing on the cake but the destruction of the Jedi Order was the main goal from the start. The movie is called "REVENGE of the Sith" and Episode VI is "Return of the Jedi". These are the two groups that have been the focus here: Good and evil. Not Evil and revenge on the government....

Sure, my point is just that his plan wasn't so ludicrously complicated as some suppose. If the Separatists had managed to get the upper hand and defeat the clones (which were after all untested) and the Jedi, Sidious' goals would have been achieved just as certainly as with Order 66.

RoccondilRinon said:

Sure, my point is just that his plan wasn't so ludicrously complicated as some suppose. If the Separatists had managed to get the upper hand and defeat the clones (which were after all untested) and the Jedi, Sidious' goals would have been achieved just as certainly as with Order 66.

No... as it stand IT IS ridiculously complicated and insane.

First he says "I am the senate"

Yet the senate has no idea what's going on and wants and investigation...

Yet he wants this invasion to go through... "I want that treaty signed"

So signing a treaty all the sudden validates an invasion? You may as well forge that crap then. It's the equivalent of "gimme all your money or get shot" The senate wouldn't stand for it and yet they have no idea the invasion is even going on so why would the vote on something they have no idea is going on?

So the plot is to bog down the who senate in procedure and slow the system to show an invasion that really hasn't had casualties... Look at the invasion of Naboo... who died? The only mention of it is when Sio Bibble say "PEOPLE ARE DYING..." but even Obi tells them "it's a trick... send no reply"...

GL made something so convolutely insane that it makes no sense to even him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORWPCCzSgu0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIWKMgJs_Gs&feature=related

Bingowings said:

That would be an enormous undertaking but not beyond the realms of a fandom that can assemble huge numbers of grown men and women in full costume every few months as soon as a convention or major fanfilm shoot is announced.

 

Heh... why do you think I volunteered to help Ady (and not just for ESB:R, me and my Rogues are all in for all the movies)? I can scramble the people, resources, and things he needs on our side of the planet if he can drive the effects and such on his. Furthermore, I think it's something noble and has to be done for the sake of restoring quality NOT quantity in the SW universe.

One thing is for sure, to make TPM good... maybe even VERY good... at least half it has to go and we have to put in a story that makes sense while making it palatable to fans. Not just "fix" Gungans and the role in the galaxy. Note that Ep II and III had VERY lil Jar jar and gungans? Why? Lucas did respond to the fact that NO ONE LIKES THEM... lol... If no one does, I'd say we do what Palpy said "WIPE THEM OUT, ALL OF THEM". ;)