The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 160

Sure I get what you are saying but let's face it the whole thing was set up to put a little Thorn Birds style frisson into the love story.

In the current arrangement the Jedi just come across us utter swines.

A Jedi must not have particular attachments so to test it we will leave the chosen one's mother a slave and see what he does next?

We are supposed to care about these guys?

In ESB Yoda and Ben know just how dangerous Vader can be especially to someone with very little training like Luke (a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing but especially so when you have a guy like Vader pressing all your buttons).

They aren't saying to Luke that his friends aren't worth saving or aren't important.

They certainly don't go out of their way to make sure Luke's friends are in danger or have a crappy life to see how he will react.

They just say that it's more important he finishes the training so he can fulfill the higher goals of his friends (well at least Leia).

Ultimately they don't stop him from going either even when they have put almost all their eggs in one basket.

Sending someone to pick up Shmi, free her and have her live on a Jedi parent pension wouldn't harm their philosophy of non-specific attachment. They could have paid for her to be freed and she could then have married Cliegg of her own free will instead of him buying a bride (that's a weird set up too).

They might as well have fitted him with an electronic chastity belt if they are that concerned with enforcing their rules of attachment ("If you get any naughty thoughts it goes BOOM!").

It just paints the Jedi as a really creepy cult with a disconnect policy :

Rogue Leader said:

mrbenja0618 said:

That's interesting. Sounds like a much stronger plot in my opinion.

 

What's the end result though... Does the Federation obtain what they are looking for? How does the whole thing play out, and how can we make it all happen with the existing footage.

 

Oh, and I've been scarce lately, but welcome to the boards Ming! Look forward to getting to know you! =)

 

Well overall, I think a "cloning arc" is the strongest direction Episode 1 can come from and actually give the overall story a real direction (since as of right now Episode 1 HAS NO DIRECTION). In the end the real end game for Episode 1 should of be the acquiring of cloning tech or something related to that and taken to Kamino so that by Ep. 2 you see what the "Phantom Menace" really was. The Sith have used deception to get what they want and then trigger a "war". However, if you look at it... The war is contrived and not real, the only real loses are Jedi which was the Sith's intention from the start. The final destruction of the Jedi Order by the end of ROTS along with the final fall of one of it's greatest Jedi Knights, Anakin Skywalker.

Other than civilian casualties in which we never see what's being lost in the galaxy? Droids? Who cares... Clones? Ethical eugenic debates aside... who cares? They're copies... The true tragedy in all of this is the Jedi Order who have been the guardians of the Republic from the start and in the end deceived and nearly wiped out by Sith deception via CLONES. What's also interesting however is how the Sith use the truth as a weapon. Dooku tells Obi Wan exactly what's going on within the Republic during his "interrogation" scene:

Count Dooku: What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of a dark lord of the Sith? 
Obi-Wan: No, that's not possible. The Jedi would sense it. 
Count Dooku: The Dark Side has clouded their vision. Hundreds of senators are now under the influence of a Sith lord called Darth Sidious. 
Obi-Wan: I don't believe you. 

Overall the lines of what's darkside and lightside start to blur. Jedi become Sith (Dooku, Anakin, etc...). Good can no longer sense the Darkside even in their own midst... The Grand Army of the Republic turns on their own Generals, the Jedi Knights and the Sith manipulate both armies to destroy Jedi and place them in no win scenario: Order 66.

Cloning should of been in introduced in Episode 1 for the start. Episode 2 was it's main escalation and implementation for the Jedi to be set up in a huge trap aka "The Clone Wars" and Episode 3 should of been the Sith end game for the destruction of the Jedi and the fall of one of it's greatest Knights.

The more I think about it the more it makes sense actually. lol

I agree with what you're saying... Just trying to figure out how to make this actually work.

Wouldn't be interesting if the area where the lightsaber fight occurs could be a cloning testing area.... We could take portions of the Kamino edition and use those elements to add little clone pods to that fight scene.... And then maybe at the end, show Palpatine alone in that area... Maybe take another shot from one of the other movies where his back is to us and paste him in a shot where the clone pods are everywhere.... And then could spell out the whole idea.

I read an article about the sad mystery of Marcia (the worst of that tragically non fiction saga took place around the time of ROTJ).

I came across it ironically when looking for stained glass dome pictures for a mockup on the wishlist thread (I've read the other articles before but this one is quite recent so it was quite a loop the loop moment especially as the OT.com petition gets a shout on the main page of his site).

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/marcialucas.html

I hate gossip and celebrity gossip especially (though the article is much more balanced than the sort of muck raking exercise more typical of that sort of reporting).

It did and it seems still to be an utterly awful series of situations.

Separating the personal aspects from the cultural ones Marcia was a major component of the success of ANH and ESB and the friction around that time explains I think more about what happened next than some of the taller official tales.

Her vanishing off the map of cinema history is a tragic loss to the craft.

It clearly claimed a terrible toll on George.

Reading it just made me feel nothing but sympathy for everyone involved.

Back to suggestions, I had a flash of inspiration which some may find utterly dumb but I'll run it by you anyway.

It knocks into both this thread and the ROTJ one so here goes.

One of the problems with ROTS is Padme's death and there have been various suggestions kicked around like her dying later in a flow of time montage or just dying in more dignified way.

What if she dies (no giving up but she is too ill to survive and dies after giving birth) but she disappears.

A total mystery to Ben but not to Yoda who already is getting messages from beyond.

That way Leia can see her in dreams and images of her ghostly form as a little girl (evidence of her nascent Force powers).

When Luke sees his father Ben and Yoda Leia sees her Mother and father reunited (she doesn't know Ben or Yoda so doesn't see them).

Think Curse Of The Cat People.

Too wacky for the room?

I shall copy this over to the wishlist as well.

Rogue Leader said:

mrbenja0618 said:

Rogue Leader said:

mrbenja0618 said:

That's interesting. Sounds like a much stronger plot in my opinion.

 

What's the end result though... Does the Federation obtain what they are looking for? How does the whole thing play out, and how can we make it all happen with the existing footage.

 

Oh, and I've been scarce lately, but welcome to the boards Ming! Look forward to getting to know you! =)

 

Well overall, I think a "cloning arc" is the strongest direction Episode 1 can come from and actually give the overall story a real direction (since as of right now Episode 1 HAS NO DIRECTION). In the end the real end game for Episode 1 should of be the acquiring of cloning tech or something related to that and taken to Kamino so that by Ep. 2 you see what the "Phantom Menace" really was. The Sith have used deception to get what they want and then trigger a "war". However, if you look at it... The war is contrived and not real, the only real loses are Jedi which was the Sith's intention from the start. The final destruction of the Jedi Order by the end of ROTS along with the final fall of one of it's greatest Jedi Knights, Anakin Skywalker.

Other than civilian casualties in which we never see what's being lost in the galaxy? Droids? Who cares... Clones? Ethical eugenic debates aside... who cares? They're copies... The true tragedy in all of this is the Jedi Order who have been the guardians of the Republic from the start and in the end deceived and nearly wiped out by Sith deception via CLONES. What's also interesting however is how the Sith use the truth as a weapon. Dooku tells Obi Wan exactly what's going on within the Republic during his "interrogation" scene:

Count Dooku: What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of a dark lord of the Sith? 
Obi-Wan: No, that's not possible. The Jedi would sense it. 
Count Dooku: The Dark Side has clouded their vision. Hundreds of senators are now under the influence of a Sith lord called Darth Sidious. 
Obi-Wan: I don't believe you. 

Overall the lines of what's darkside and lightside start to blur. Jedi become Sith (Dooku, Anakin, etc...). Good can no longer sense the Darkside even in their own midst... The Grand Army of the Republic turns on their own Generals, the Jedi Knights and the Sith manipulate both armies to destroy Jedi and place them in no win scenario: Order 66.

Cloning should of been in introduced in Episode 1 for the start. Episode 2 was it's main escalation and implementation for the Jedi to be set up in a huge trap aka "The Clone Wars" and Episode 3 should of been the Sith end game for the destruction of the Jedi and the fall of one of it's greatest Knights.

The more I think about it the more it makes sense actually. lol

 

I agree with what you're saying... Just trying to figure out how to make this actually work.

 

Wouldn't be interesting if the area where the lightsaber fight occurs could be a cloning testing area.... We could take portions of the Kamino edition and use those elements to add little clone pods to that fight scene.... And then maybe at the end, show Palpatine alone in that area... Maybe take another shot from one of the other movies where his back is to us and paste him in a shot where the clone pods are everywhere.... And then could spell out the whole idea.

 

Yub yub... very similar to what I was thinking... The whole point is have the invasion as a feint but the real reason is human cloning tech. We can tweak the Kaminoans cloning expertise as non-human and so getting Naboo's clone tech for humans is critical to their overall goal as the Empire's biased to aliens is well known. Papatine uses the trade federation as pawns promising them a huge role in his New Imperial Order and they never intended to stay on Naboo (thus only one droid control ship was left behind). They got what they came for and the rest hyped so they leave a small force behind to make it look like an occupation....

That's how I'd mod and retcon this fierfek. =P

ALSO... as a bonus... we can eliminate JarJar and gungans completely. XD

Not to mention it would make that whole area make a bit more sense being a cloning facility...

No gungans is a good thing. They can easily be removed.

In terms of using what already exists on film it's more problematic than my idea of having the Neimoidians trying to reclaim a planet they were kicked off from centuries ago by the Naboo.

Cutting the Gungans out of the film leaves a big hole with not much to fill it with either.

We don't see any evidence of cloning in TPM, we don't see much evidence of hardly anyone on Naboo for that matter. You can't just shift material from AOTC in there either because then you make an even bigger hole the next time around.

It is surprising how through a mixture of re-dubbing and editing how less stupid the Gungans become.

Naturally it would be ideal to replace them with something totally different and this is the radical redux thread so I'm all for ideas on how to do that but it might be more practical to make what's already there work better.

BarBar Jinkx said:

here's an idea why not have Leia born first then Padmé dies & then Luke is born!

Maybe I missed something earlier in the thread, but....why?

BarBar Jinkx said:

he doesn't remember her She does! I know its all a bit conveluted

If you're going for something symbolic, I can kind of see it.  If you want it to show why Leia remembers Padme, well...I guess I don't see that.

Bingowings said:

In terms of using what already exists on film it's more problematic than my idea of having the Neimoidians trying to reclaim a planet they were kicked off from centuries ago by the Naboo.

Cutting the Gungans out of the film leaves a big hole with not much to fill it with either.

We don't see any evidence of cloning in TPM, we don't see much evidence of hardly anyone on Naboo for that matter. You can't just shift material from AOTC in there either because then you make an even bigger hole the next time around.

It is surprising how through a mixture of re-dubbing and editing how less stupid the Gungans become.

Naturally it would be ideal to replace them with something totally different and this is the radical redux thread so I'm all for ideas on how to do that but it might be more practical to make what's already there work better.

 

Honestly, I won't miss the Gungan hole. At all... A 30 minute movie without them is better that a 2 hour movie with stupid filler. But honestly, it wouldn't be that drastic...

The only evidence we have to see is the shot I mentioned that could be created. It doesn't have to be complicated... I'm not saying take the whole shot from AOTC. I'm saying cut out little pods, and paste them in the naboo shot.....  And have Palpatine standing before them. Not hard either. It's one shot, and spells out everything.

You don't have to have clones running around everywhere. Just that shot... The next movie takes it to the next level... Ming is right.

You could explain in the AOTC crawl that after the battle of Naboo, The Republic took possession of the technology.

I honestly think this could work.

Leia remembering her mother, doesn't bother me so much... Always thought that her memory could be heightened by the force being strong in her family.... So, yeah, Padme dying before Luke is born could explain why he doesn't recall, and she does.

Why are the Naboo making clones in the first place?

Is it just an arms race thing where they feel they need to have them because the Federation have battle droids?

Have they been hit by some disease making natural child birth particularly dangerous to them?

Are they running a Brantisvogan escort agency?

Bingowings said:

Why are the Naboo making clones in the first place?

Obviously, when you have someone who is perfect in your midst, you do your best to get more of him.

Bingowings said:

Why are the Naboo making clones in the first place?

Is it just an arms race thing where they feel they need to have them because the Federation have battle droids?

Have they been hit by some disease making natural child birth particularly dangerous to them?

Are they running a Brantisvogan escort agency?

Just for the sake of being able to do so. Let's be honest, when some scientists decide to do something, they do it for the sake of discovery....

With the Naboo, they may have had honorable intentions... But the government usually doesn't. It's not a stretch in the least that they would take possession.

Kinda like project: Genesis in Star Trek 2. They found they could create life, so they did it.... And then someone else decided to use it as a weapon... Exactly what would be happening here. Like Ming says, it gives this weak movie an actual plot.

It would help including it as a plot device if it had a primary intension.

I assume going by the level of technology in the Star Wars galaxy humanoid cloning wouldn't be too difficult for any of the major civilisations in the Republic or beyond it's borders.

Though it may be limited due to treaties and resources (like the conditions that limit nuclear proliferation on this world at this time).

If there was some sort of planetary emergency or special need they may have some sort of special dispensation that other worlds might want to exploit or take umbrage against.

Rogue Leader said:

TV's Frink said:

BarBar Jinkx said:

he doesn't remember her She does! I know its all a bit conveluted

If you're going for something symbolic, I can kind of see it.  If you want it to show why Leia remembers Padme, well...I guess I don't see that.

Keep in mind that you're dealing with Force-sensitive kids. Leia should be born first to enforce continuity there at the very least for her to remember Padme in ROTJ ("she was very beautiful, kind... but sad", which could just be her feelings reinforced by Force Sense, maybe she wasn't even talking about physically beautiful or maybe Bail showed her a holo of Padme at some point... you know they kinda did know each other? That small detail could be retconned outside of the movie.)...  It's a small fix but a valid one.

Exactly.

Rogue Leader said:

Ric Olie said:

Bingowings said:

Why are the Naboo making clones in the first place?

Obviously, when you have someone who is perfect in your midst, you do your best to get more of him.

Is this Ralph Brown?! LOL! Cos if it was and he's actually volunteering for TPM Revisited and we do a cloning plot then there it is. We have a movie people! XD

Who is this Ralph Brown people keep going on about?

PM sent, RL.

Tell you what, get me into the ESB:R credits and I'll see what I can do...